manorpark

What you say above is good and correct and I agree with it, as I always have. It is difficult to estimate how much of this MESS was Ashley's fault, but (as owner) he has to take by far the bulk of the blame. Now, without you having met him, or 'seen the photos', I would imagine you will agree with that. The reasons Keegan left (that you mention) are all valid, as I have always said, and are undoubtedly part of it. BUT, many people continue to rationalise and over-simplify the reason why he left, "latching on" to the Ashley-and-funds-and-choice-of-players, thing. It is most unlikely that anything as simple as that would have caused him to leave - it he came here to "finish the job" etc - with the speed with which he did. It just does not FIT. It smells. There must be more to it than just that. There is a lot more complexity in why Keegan returned and why he left so soon, that the simply-presented "reasons" of the funds and choice of players, that so many people (as said) happily latch on to as being the be-all-and-end-all of the situation. C'mon, the whole thing STINKS. I really cannot find any other way to say this now. I have described the "Ashley & Funds" bit, as the 'last chapter' and the 'last page', and I have tried many other ways to get the message across here - so I can do no more. Simply, there is more to it than that - it stinks to high heaven. He came back as soon as the Halls and Shepherds were out of the club, he came in thinking Mike Ashley was going to at least take the club forward, it then became apparent that Ashley had no intension to spend and he was going to reduce the operating costs of the club. KK couldn't deal with Ashley, Lambias and Wise as they were f*** nuts without a clue so was either sacked or quit. I'm not sure where you get this "must be another reason" for him to return from. Are you basing your argument for KK coming back with other motives on that shitty lazy article in one of the papers sayng it was because Soccer Circus was struggling and he needed cash. The same Soccer Circus which is still going even in the recession. I make my own mind up and do not believe reporters interpretations. But, as I said above, "I can do no more", at this stage.

What you say above is good and correct and I agree with it, as I always have. It is difficult to estimate how much of this MESS was Ashley's fault, but (as owner) he has to take by far the bulk of the blame. Now, without you having met him, or 'seen the photos', I would imagine you will agree with that. The reasons Keegan left (that you mention) are all valid, as I have always said, and are undoubtedly part of it. BUT, many people continue to rationalise and over-simplify the reason why he left, "latching on" to the Ashley-and-funds-and-choice-of-players, thing. It is most unlikely that anything as simple as that would have caused him to leave - it he came here to "finish the job" etc - with the speed with which he did. It just does not FIT. It smells. There must be more to it than just that. There is a lot more complexity in why Keegan returned and why he left so soon, that the simply-presented "reasons" of the funds and choice of players, that so many people (as said) happily latch on to as being the be-all-and-end-all of the situation. C'mon, the whole thing STINKS. I really cannot find any other way to say this now. I have described the "Ashley & Funds" bit, as the 'last chapter' and the 'last page', and I have tried many other ways to get the message across here - so I can do no more. Simply, there is more to it than that - it stinks to high heaven.

If true, the bit about the Americans dealing direct with Ashley rather than through Seymour Pierce is interesting. Harris has said more than once that he thinks there should be a strong local presence in the ownership of the club. It's reasonable to surmise that he favours Moat. Personally, I think local ownership is a mixed blessing. You often hear that the club should be owned by someone who understands the place of the club in the region, but it's not clear exactly what decisions would be different in the case of a local owner. If anything, we need owners that can resist the pressure and not get sucked into decisions that are driven more by hope and emotion than common sense. A big problem with Shepherd was that, as a fan, he couldn't resist meddling in footballing decisions and showed favouritism to Shearer as the fans' hero. You could look at Ashley and say that he, as an outsider, hasn't done very well. My view is that his overall strategy was fine in the circumstances that the club were in, but his fatal blunder was appointing Keegan - a man whose motivation was suspect, who was unsuited to a long-term approach or working within a team, and whose chief asset was his standing with the fans. In that decision, Ashley was paying too much attention to local opinion, not too little. Of course, some may disagree. KEEGAN'S MOTIVATION, in coming back . . Yes, that is something that has bugged me quite a lot. I mean, what do you think he came back for? Certainly, events have proved that it was NOT (what we all hoped it was for) to "finish off the job he started and win us the Premier League every year" . . . NO, I think it was something altogether "less noble" than that. He certainly didn't stick around long when the going got tough, did he? Because of THAT (though it was probably Ashley's actual fault) we are now relegated and are in the Second Division ('nothingness', as someone once called it). Yes KEEGAN'S MOTIVES, are very, very, very, suspect - in MY opinion. Its KKs fault we are in the 2nd div? Lame, Not the fact that ashley would not invest money?? Thats why KK left, he could nto get Ashley to invest in any players. Jesus wept. Embarrassing isn't it? Some people still fail to understand why Keegan left. EVERYONE knows why he left. That was just the 'last chapter' (the 'last page', even) in the story. His reasons for coming back and his lack of regard for us and the club by his leaving So SOON (so bl**dy soon) should not be disregarded so totally. He was, and is, complicit (strongly) in our demise, whether you like it or not. Ok then if this is defacto and you have spoken to KK himself and know the truth of why he was here for such a short period of time, could you share this with me and the rest of the folk on this forum? Have you any idea how silly that sounds? As with anything in life, you do not need to have spoken to (or even 'met') the individuals involved, to know a lot about what went on. How many people in Dallas have you spoken to about President Kennedy being shot? Yet, you know he was and that Lee Harvey Oswald was involved, though (like with Keegan) you cannot know the FULL extent of his involvement. How many people in New York have you spoken to (and met) about the destruction of the World Trade centre . . and yet, you know what happened . . . Need I go on? You cannot (well, 'should' not) artificially instigate "additional proof standards" to the Keegan leaving Newcastle situation, that does not apply to any other of the ten trillion or so 'events' that occur around the world. Keegan WAS involved in our demise. I have NOT "seen the photos" . . . but he WAS involved in our demise. You talk so much s*** my eyes bleed reading it. you said - "His reasons for coming back and his lack of regard for us and the club by his leaving So SOON (so bl**dy soon) should not be disregarded so totally." So you know the reason why he came back and his quick exit. See my previous post (01.35Hrs) . . . and lets keep a grip on reality please. Why are you defending the guy so much? I lived through his years as the messiah - and I loved it, and him for giving us it. BUT, he is a human being, with flaws in his character, just like you and I. Why defend him so "totally", it is ODD, to say the least!

If true, the bit about the Americans dealing direct with Ashley rather than through Seymour Pierce is interesting. Harris has said more than once that he thinks there should be a strong local presence in the ownership of the club. It's reasonable to surmise that he favours Moat. Personally, I think local ownership is a mixed blessing. You often hear that the club should be owned by someone who understands the place of the club in the region, but it's not clear exactly what decisions would be different in the case of a local owner. If anything, we need owners that can resist the pressure and not get sucked into decisions that are driven more by hope and emotion than common sense. A big problem with Shepherd was that, as a fan, he couldn't resist meddling in footballing decisions and showed favouritism to Shearer as the fans' hero. You could look at Ashley and say that he, as an outsider, hasn't done very well. My view is that his overall strategy was fine in the circumstances that the club were in, but his fatal blunder was appointing Keegan - a man whose motivation was suspect, who was unsuited to a long-term approach or working within a team, and whose chief asset was his standing with the fans. In that decision, Ashley was paying too much attention to local opinion, not too little. Of course, some may disagree. KEEGAN'S MOTIVATION, in coming back . . Yes, that is something that has bugged me quite a lot. I mean, what do you think he came back for? Certainly, events have proved that it was NOT (what we all hoped it was for) to "finish off the job he started and win us the Premier League every year" . . . NO, I think it was something altogether "less noble" than that. He certainly didn't stick around long when the going got tough, did he? Because of THAT (though it was probably Ashley's actual fault) we are now relegated and are in the Second Division ('nothingness', as someone once called it). Yes KEEGAN'S MOTIVES, are very, very, very, suspect - in MY opinion. Its KKs fault we are in the 2nd div? Lame, Not the fact that ashley would not invest money?? Thats why KK left, he could nto get Ashley to invest in any players. Jesus wept. Embarrassing isn't it? Some people still fail to understand why Keegan left. EVERYONE knows why he left. That was just the 'last chapter' (the 'last page', even) in the story. His reasons for coming back and his lack of regard for us and the club by his leaving So SOON (so bl**dy soon) should not be disregarded so totally. He was, and is, complicit (strongly) in our demise, whether you like it or not. Ok then if this is defacto and you have spoken to KK himself and know the truth of why he was here for such a short period of time, could you share this with me and the rest of the folk on this forum? Have you any idea how silly that sounds? As with anything in life, you do not need to have spoken to (or even 'met') the individuals involved, to know a lot about what went on. How many people in Dallas have you spoken to about President Kennedy being shot? Yet, you know he was and that Lee Harvey Oswald was involved, though (like with Keegan) you cannot know the FULL extent of his involvement. How many people in New York have you spoken to (and met) about the destruction of the World Trade centre . . and yet, you know what happened . . . Need I go on? You cannot (well, 'should' not) artificially instigate "additional proof standards" to the Keegan leaving Newcastle situation, that does not apply to any other of the ten trillion or so 'events' that occur around the world. Keegan WAS involved in our demise. I have NOT "seen the photos" . . . but he WAS involved in our demise.

It was brought up on here, so it has been discussed on here as it is relevant to the sale of the club ("non-sale") now that we are a fully-fledged "nothingness" club, for which Keegan is partially responsible. If no one wants to talk about Keegans role here, I am happy to stop now. Nothing we say will change anything anyway. Nothing is happening with the sale anyway, either. Where are my Leonard Cohen records?? (don't start!)

If true, the bit about the Americans dealing direct with Ashley rather than through Seymour Pierce is interesting. Harris has said more than once that he thinks there should be a strong local presence in the ownership of the club. It's reasonable to surmise that he favours Moat. Personally, I think local ownership is a mixed blessing. You often hear that the club should be owned by someone who understands the place of the club in the region, but it's not clear exactly what decisions would be different in the case of a local owner. If anything, we need owners that can resist the pressure and not get sucked into decisions that are driven more by hope and emotion than common sense. A big problem with Shepherd was that, as a fan, he couldn't resist meddling in footballing decisions and showed favouritism to Shearer as the fans' hero. You could look at Ashley and say that he, as an outsider, hasn't done very well. My view is that his overall strategy was fine in the circumstances that the club were in, but his fatal blunder was appointing Keegan - a man whose motivation was suspect, who was unsuited to a long-term approach or working within a team, and whose chief asset was his standing with the fans. In that decision, Ashley was paying too much attention to local opinion, not too little. Of course, some may disagree. KEEGAN'S MOTIVATION, in coming back . . Yes, that is something that has bugged me quite a lot. I mean, what do you think he came back for? Certainly, events have proved that it was NOT (what we all hoped it was for) to "finish off the job he started and win us the Premier League every year" . . . NO, I think it was something altogether "less noble" than that. He certainly didn't stick around long when the going got tough, did he? Because of THAT (though it was probably Ashley's actual fault) we are now relegated and are in the Second Division ('nothingness', as someone once called it). Yes KEEGAN'S MOTIVES, are very, very, very, suspect - in MY opinion. Its KKs fault we are in the 2nd div? Lame, Not the fact that ashley would not invest money?? Thats why KK left, he could nto get Ashley to invest in any players. Jesus wept. Embarrassing isn't it? Some people still fail to understand why Keegan left. EVERYONE knows why he left. That was just the 'last chapter' (the 'last page', even) in the story. His reasons for coming back and his lack of regard for us and the club by his leaving So SOON (so bl**dy soon) should not be disregarded so totally. He was, and is, complicit (strongly) in our demise, whether you like it or not.

GroundCAT, actually - thankyou!

If true, the bit about the Americans dealing direct with Ashley rather than through Seymour Pierce is interesting. Harris has said more than once that he thinks there should be a strong local presence in the ownership of the club. It's reasonable to surmise that he favours Moat. Personally, I think local ownership is a mixed blessing. You often hear that the club should be owned by someone who understands the place of the club in the region, but it's not clear exactly what decisions would be different in the case of a local owner. If anything, we need owners that can resist the pressure and not get sucked into decisions that are driven more by hope and emotion than common sense. A big problem with Shepherd was that, as a fan, he couldn't resist meddling in footballing decisions and showed favouritism to Shearer as the fans' hero. You could look at Ashley and say that he, as an outsider, hasn't done very well. My view is that his overall strategy was fine in the circumstances that the club were in, but his fatal blunder was appointing Keegan - a man whose motivation was suspect, who was unsuited to a long-term approach or working within a team, and whose chief asset was his standing with the fans. In that decision, Ashley was paying too much attention to local opinion, not too little. Of course, some may disagree. KEEGAN'S MOTIVATION, in coming back . . Yes, that is something that has bugged me quite a lot. I mean, what do you think he came back for? Certainly, events have proved that it was NOT (what we all hoped it was for) to "finish off the job he started and win us the Premier League every year" . . . NO, I think it was something altogether "less noble" than that. He certainly didn't stick around long when the going got tough, did he? Because of THAT (though it was probably Ashley's actual fault) we are now relegated and are in the Second Division ('nothingness', as someone once called it). Yes KEEGAN'S MOTIVES, are very, very, very, suspect - in MY opinion. Its KKs fault we are in the 2nd div? Lame, Not the fact that ashley would not invest money?? Thats why KK left, he could nto get Ashley to invest in any players. Jesus wept. Oh, poor diddums Keegan . . . I hate Ashley as much as the next man, but Keegan's major role (and motives) in our demise, should not be ignored.

If true, the bit about the Americans dealing direct with Ashley rather than through Seymour Pierce is interesting. Harris has said more than once that he thinks there should be a strong local presence in the ownership of the club. It's reasonable to surmise that he favours Moat. Personally, I think local ownership is a mixed blessing. You often hear that the club should be owned by someone who understands the place of the club in the region, but it's not clear exactly what decisions would be different in the case of a local owner. If anything, we need owners that can resist the pressure and not get sucked into decisions that are driven more by hope and emotion than common sense. A big problem with Shepherd was that, as a fan, he couldn't resist meddling in footballing decisions and showed favouritism to Shearer as the fans' hero. You could look at Ashley and say that he, as an outsider, hasn't done very well. My view is that his overall strategy was fine in the circumstances that the club were in, but his fatal blunder was appointing Keegan - a man whose motivation was suspect, who was unsuited to a long-term approach or working within a team, and whose chief asset was his standing with the fans. In that decision, Ashley was paying too much attention to local opinion, not too little. Of course, some may disagree. KEEGAN'S MOTIVATION, in coming back . . Yes, that is something that has bugged me quite a lot. I mean, what do you think he came back for? Certainly, events have proved that it was NOT (what we all hoped it was for) to "finish off the job he started and win us the Premier League every year" . . . NO, I think it was something altogether "less noble" than that. He certainly didn't stick around long when the going got tough, did he? Because of THAT (though it was probably Ashley's actual fault) we are now relegated and are in the Second Division ('nothingness', as someone once called it). Yes KEEGAN'S MOTIVES, are very, very, very, suspect - in MY opinion.

And there it is. It really is f***ing easy to make this club a success as all one needs is common footballing sense. Ashley and his cronies have clearly lacked this and here we are, slowly clawing back to normalcy despite the fat one's ineptitude. I wish. If it was as easy as you make out how come the people who have done the best job of trying in over half a bloody century are despised by so many and thought of as s***, unless the "so many" who think this way are total know-nowts? You tell me, mate. Because they also robbed the club of tens of millions of pounds. Having said that I doubt you'd find a Newcastle fan who thought they were s*** until Shepherd took over himsellf. Not even then really - it was not until the Arab Sheik scam thing, that a lot of fans came to dislike Shepherd

I think (again) the word is REALITY (not 'total misery'). What facts are there to support the 'hope' thing? Or is it BLIND hope? We can all do that, I suppose. Listen mate I'm as fed up with all this as the next man and at times I've thought (fleetingly) about packing in. But I'll be there at Cardiff next Sunday having got up early and spent a fortune. And to be honest I'm hoping that my dedication will ultimately be rewarded with a return. That might be delusional but hoo hum Thought about packing it in, I did that once a while back. I gave up my season ticket that I had had for 21 years in the East Stand and old West Stand Centre (standing) Paddock, I just felt that they were NEVER going to do anything exciting. About six months later they appointed KK as manager for the first time! Needless to say . . . But, this "takeover" thing is a real pi**er, but they'll drag me out in a box first!!!

I think (again) the word is REALITY (not 'total misery'). What facts are there to support the 'hope' thing? Or is it BLIND hope? We can all do that, I suppose.

Interesting Stevie-Mac, I think REALITY is the word you are struggling for. Seriously, are you not as totally pi**ed off with this as I (and everyone I know) is? C'mon!

Because it is "we are being sold story, number 500,000,000,000 and a half" - that's why.

This thread was good until there stopped being anything to talk about. When we all realised that NOTHING was happening, NOTHING had ever happened, and probably NOTHING was going to happen . . . with this "PRETEND" sale!

Who was talking and what deal? There is no deal/ The yanks and the owners! And where did you hear this from? Lock it, l o c k i t, L O C K I T !!!!!!!!!! (Please)

I agree. Yes, a very good idea - for all of us weak-willed types, just LOCK IT (lock it away out of sight).

I believe ya, I believe ya, I surely do . . . B E E E L I E V E . . . !!!! (ya).

Why? Did no one on the programme ask that basic, simple, question? WHY???

So, we've BEEN HAD . . . and in fact we are "still being had" . . . so well played Ashley, he has COMPLETELY won the battle all summer. Brilliant. ( PS - This is my "1,000th" post on here . . . )

Understandable. Will post what I know. Should be some info 4 to 5pm. Hiya Young Fella, It's . . . er . . . round about "that time" that you mentioned . . . I was just wonderin' if you had . . . er . . . heard anything we might be interested in?? Just noticed - He didn't say WHICH DAY !!! damn you tommo .. redheugh I'm told that those two have never been seen in the same room together . .

Understandable. Will post what I know. Should be some info 4 to 5pm. Hiya Young Fella, It's . . . er . . . round about "that time" that you mentioned . . . I was just wonderin' if you had . . . er . . . heard anything we might be interested in?? Just noticed - He didn't say WHICH DAY !!!

Understandable. Will post what I know. Should be some info 4 to 5pm. Hiya Young Fella, It's . . . er . . . round about "that time" that you mentioned . . . I was just wonderin' if you had . . . er . . . heard anything we might be interested in??

A slight variation of the above . . . "To be honest I don't think anything will happen"

But, it's a Bank Holiday, nothing can happen.