timnufc22

Used to love watching Arsenal play too. Their passing, pace, skill and direct play. You had Vieira, Pires, Parlour, Edu, Ljunberg, Bergkamp, Henry, backed up by the grit of players like Campbell and Keown, and even Grimondi, and players like Wiltord, Reyes and Kanu who contributed their fair share. They had everything, and had the perfect balance. Then Wenger decided to change that ethos which was successful to having the team full of small, young players, with experience largley thrown out the window & disregarded. Now they play tippy-tappy football on the half way line, are not allowed to shoot, and play practically with no striker - Van Persie on his own? Which makes any cross into the box utterly pointless, and any set peice pointless, as their centre backs arent exactly beasts either (I know Djouru scored against us, but it was very much a rarity). Then Wenger patronises the fans by mentioning Man City's spending, value for money, 'not going to put the club in jeorpady' etc. No-one is asking for Man City spending, and 9/10 you are always going to pay a few million more than the player is worth/value etc. How would Scott Dann put the clubs fianance in jeorpady? It wouldnt, so dont disrespect the fans with the same cliche's. Thats all without his comments on match inccidents and behavoiur on the touch-line. And Im talking from the point of view of what they were only around 5years ago - the immense team, style and success he had built up - and how he's allowing it to just dwindle away. Obviously they are still one of the better teams in the league, but the change of philosophy, and subsequent stubborness - refusing to simply use common sense - is crazy really.

I'm not talking about it being safe standing, just people standing infront of their seats like in the away end of SJP and the last few seasons in the Leazes Corner. If everyone stood in the SE Corner nobody would get banned as they couldn't enforce it. Either way over the next few seasons I've got a feeling more people will start moving to the SE corner for the atmosphere/to stand, I can only hope. Of course they can. They warn you, they formally warn you with a letter then they cancel your ticket so you can't get in the ground. If a steward asks you to sit down during the game and you refuse/kick up a fuss and they make a note of your seat you've not got a leg to stand on. It might not mean the coppers ejecting you during the course of a game but the stewards will quickly get sick of telling the same people to sit down. It'll start with a few and snowball if the rest don't fall into line. Didn't happen for many a season in the Leazes L7 and then 3 seasons in the Leazes Corner. If they enforced it with thousands of people standing (like I said, if everyone there stood, as things do stand at small numbers then aye they're an easy target) then they'd never have the balls to ban thousands of fans from the ground, it's not happened at a single club in England as far as I'm aware and I severly doubt we'd be the first to attempt it. Edit: Suppose I should have said wouldn't than couldn't, but point still stands. They could, but like I said I very much doubt they'd dare ban thousands of ST holders from the ground. Yep. Like someone said - the 'danger' of standing is a total con we are supposed to just accept, when it reality we are being completely shafted. If they are going to basically keep enforcing this con, with no admission that standing is not dangerous, then people have to take things into their own hands. The defeatist & easy thing to do would be to shrug your shoulders and think there is no choice, but they cannot deal with the numbers which are on our side if get organised - e.g. Leazes Corner. We just need to do it in a way which is not abusive or aggressive, and trying to co-operate with our fellow fans, swapping seats for example if possible.

Aye exactly.

Well said. Doubt they'll give a s*** anyway, though. Most of the fans in the corner are simply wanting to create the best possible atmosphere at SJP. I heard them - because they got the gallowgate end going against arsenal sometimes. There may be a minority of fans more arsed about stewards etc, but thats wrong to tarnish the rest like that.

Anyone giving stick out to people who ask if they can sit down is wrong, obviously. Likewise anyone who shouts 'sick the fuck down you twat' for example. If theres an old woman or someone with a medcial condition behind then just sit down, imo, unless you can swap seats. There dosent need to be any abusive crap, and that goes for the steward malarky too. "Are you going to sit down?" "No, I'd prefer not to" *carries on supporting team .... thats all that is needed. "Shove your seats up your arse" etc is inviting conflict and potentially bringing on problems. The Arsenal game showed there is potential to make the ground louder, give it time to grow. The Leazes L7 only started with a very small group - it ended up 3,000 strong. We need that core together, starting the atmosphere, because there were times against Arsenal when the singing spread through to the Gallowgate end and made a difference. But to do this we've got to leave out any confrontation, and not respond with a 'fuck you' attitude.

I was right next to it in the Gallowgate and aye, it was promising stuff. A good amount stayed firm when the stewards came, well done. People just need to persist with it, and it will grow more & more. To anyone saying 'but standing isnt allowed' I'd say we are being sold a lie; it is not dangerous, the reason for standing being against regulations is a total con, which should be looked into. It definetely got the Gallowgate end going sometimes and the noise was quality. Well done to some lads right at the back of the Gallowgate keeping things ticking over, it helps to have little pockets here & there. I'd personally say its pointless singing 'we'll never sit down' etc because your sort of inviting conflict then. The fact that your standing is enough, its best to just continue supporting the team when the stewards come, and ignore them/politely tell them 'no' and carry on singing for the lads. As annoying as they are, they are only doing there job, and being confrontation will only play into their hands.

We know the score but Jose should keep things like that to himself IMO. Disrespectful to a lot of people who thought the world of him. But Liverpool are one of the biggest clubs in England & the world - got nothing to do with Newcastle.

Liverpool are potentially in with a shout of CL qualification in the next few years, I dont see how its just about money either. Yes Downing was over-priced and is not the greatest all-round player in the world, but he should serve a a very useful function of supplying Carroll with crosses. Adam takes a brilliant set piece from that point of view too. Suarez is Suarez, Dalglish has even brought the confidence out of players like Lucas. Tthe owner seems level-headed and is trying to push the club forward, I do believe Enrique appreciated the fans support and grew to really like the place, but as a player coming to his prime, and not a local lad, its such a totally understandable decision.

That struck home. Unfortunately it's his club and as it says further up in the article, he now wants the club to be self-financing without putting in any more of his own money. Not a situation which will make fans happy but unless there's genuine interest from outside buyers then we'll just have to suck it and see. That in bold just totally baffles me, it really does. So why do the fans resent him? What are the reasons? Oh aye, because he lied to them for starters when selling those 3year season tickets! If you wanna talk about when his bubble burst, he forced out the manager, a legend who had managed to restore confidence for fans & players, by lying to him and allowing him to be completely undermined by Dennis bloody Wise. Even when he was given the chance to sort it out he chose to keep Wise on. From then he's made one stupid decision to another, with a fair amount of p*ss taking along the way (sports direct on the gallowgate roof, allowing his mate to publically slag off people like Alan Shearer, and the fans regurlaly). The fiasco with Keegan showed the amount of class Ashley & his cronies have, because they still act completely devoid of it up till now. So guess what? He's not respected! Shock Horror! ...and guess what? He won't put more money into improving the squad for the benefit of people who can't stand him. Would you? If I had cocked up as badly as he has I'd take the critism and dislike on the chin, because theres an obvious point behind it. Its about motives for bing here though isnt it? Yes I'd put money in (aswell as actually showing that little thing called respect to fans & players) and attempt to turn things around because the chances are people might start warming to me again. If he dosent put money in because people react to his conduct that is just childish, this is the running of a football club not some social club, but it obviously shows the character & ego of the man, which was revealed years ago anyway. For an owner to invest his own money into a football club rather than run it as a business needs real commitment and love for the club. Ashley has made too many cock ups and has turned the fan base against him which for me has torpedoed any chance he will invest with any risk to himself, if he ever was going to. I think the best chance of him doing that are if he gets excited about the club again rather than be viewed as a villain. Which is why I won't support NUST or Supporters for Change as the only way things will change is if someone buys the club, not through agitators who p*ss the current owner off. The ball is in his court to prove his credibility and show some enthusiasm for the club in response to those mistakes - some of which involve leading fans & managers down the garden path. If he is unwilling to do that because the fans took, and take, exception to his actions then it is his own childlishness that has torpedoed any chance of investing some of his own money... if he wants to get excited about the club again then its well within his capability to change people's opinion of him by putting that money in, change his structure of having an MD completely unsuited for the role for example, and create more of a buzz. And to be fair, its not like theres people waiting outside for him, and police rushing him through the entrance! Whenever he's had stick its mainly came from the pocket of 3,000 out 50,000 fans in the corner way above him, and again has been in reaction to stupid & offensive decisions. If he's sitting there thinking 'bastards, youve hurt my feelings, you should like me regardless what I do, sing my name please and I might show some passion for the club' then it sums up his ego and arrogance.

That struck home. Unfortunately it's his club and as it says further up in the article, he now wants the club to be self-financing without putting in any more of his own money. Not a situation which will make fans happy but unless there's genuine interest from outside buyers then we'll just have to suck it and see. That in bold just totally baffles me, it really does. So why do the fans resent him? What are the reasons? Oh aye, because he lied to them for starters when selling those 3year season tickets! If you wanna talk about when his bubble burst, he forced out the manager, a legend who had managed to restore confidence for fans & players, by lying to him and allowing him to be completely undermined by Dennis bloody Wise. Even when he was given the chance to sort it out he chose to keep Wise on. From then he's made one stupid decision to another, with a fair amount of p*ss taking along the way (sports direct on the gallowgate roof, allowing his mate to publically slag off people like Alan Shearer, and the fans regurlaly). The fiasco with Keegan showed the amount of class Ashley & his cronies have, because they still act completely devoid of it up till now. So guess what? He's not respected! Shock Horror! ...and guess what? He won't put more money into improving the squad for the benefit of people who can't stand him. Would you? If I had cocked up as badly as he has I'd take the critism and dislike on the chin, because theres an obvious point behind it. Its about motives for bing here though isnt it? Yes I'd put money in (aswell as actually showing that little thing called respect to fans & players) and attempt to turn things around because the chances are people might start warming to me again. If he dosent put money in because people react to his conduct that is just childish, this is the running of a football club not some social club, but it obviously shows the character & ego of the man, which was revealed years ago anyway.

That struck home. Unfortunately it's his club and as it says further up in the article, he now wants the club to be self-financing without putting in any more of his own money. Not a situation which will make fans happy but unless there's genuine interest from outside buyers then we'll just have to suck it and see. That in bold just totally baffles me, it really does. So why do the fans resent him? What are the reasons? Oh aye, because he lied to them for starters when selling those 3year season tickets! If you wanna talk about when his bubble burst, he forced out the manager, a legend who had managed to restore confidence for fans & players, by lying to him and allowing him to be completely undermined by Dennis bloody Wise. Even when he was given the chance to sort it out he chose to keep Wise on. From then he's made one stupid decision to another, with a fair amount of piss taking along the way (sports direct on the gallowgate roof, allowing his mate to publically slag off people like Alan Shearer, and the fans regurlaly). The fiasco with Keegan showed the amount of class Ashley & his cronies have, because they still act completely devoid of it up till now. So guess what? He's not respected! Shock Horror!

Woop woop, another plan. We're all ears...

Part of me would really like to say that tbh. We're not going anywhere under Ashley, I want his time here to be as uncomfortable as possible to try and push him more & more towards selling.

Exactly, I cant complain about him going to Liverpool at all, they are capable of challenging for a top 4 spot, and if they dont get it they still might well win a cup. If Carroll's head is right etc I really believe he'll be something special over the next 10years, and he's got Adam, Downing (not a brilliant player overall imo but is a functional singing with regards to Carroll) and now Enrique to give him the service. Add Suarez in there, Merieles, and the promosing younger's they are capable of doing really well.

wasn't mort only ever going to be here for a year to help while Ashley got his feet under the table so to speak? Aye and his role when Keegan was bullshitted about the terms of the job is very suspect.

Journalists should be asking Pardew how much influence he has, whether he agreed to the wage bill getting cut as much as possible before getting appointed, asking him to explain his comments about the Carroll money.

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from. Champion. You've obviously backed yourself into a corner with your earlier views, so will continue to be contrary for the sake of it. Inochi, I don't personally think that Ian W's views are that far wrong (or at least a good chunk of them), although he does sometimes blindly stick to them no matter what, but I'm sure that is just to counteract the over-the-top reactions in the other direction. All in all, I'm of the opinion that both Barton and Ashley / Llambias are to blame. Barton for acting like a complete tool, and MA/DL for doing what they did. On the Pardew point, I'm still unsure of what he has actually done wrong in the eyes of supporters really, and whether he is simply "guilty by association". I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to lose Barton, Nolan, Carroll etc specifically and I believe he doesn't have a say. His job is to pick the team and the odd incoming player, and if I judge him on that, I can't see how he's done such a bad job as some on here would make out. if i coud just answer on the pardew point. he's willingly been a part of an operation to cut costs and any semblance of ambition from the club. personally i'd quite like to see us have a go at being as successful as we can, and i dont think top 6 is out of the question. we wont ever try and achieve anything like that under ashley, pardew knows it and took the job on those terms. for that he's as much a money grabbing scumbag as any player you'd care to mention imo. You're not wrong, except that I do believe he would prefer to have lowered the costs without losing these specific players (i.e. got rid of the likes of Smith). I brought it up on here last night, but it's pretty clear he took the job knowing that he'd have to lower operating costs, but so will any future manager under Ashley, so what's the point in judging him on that? Every other manager we would get would be working under the same conditions. It just seems like you (not specifically you, but some people) may as well just get behind him and support him on the football side of things... which he's actually been pretty good at so far. Which is why it was quite mis-leading to say every penny of the 35m will be re-invested in the squad.

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date. We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now. Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out. We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs. This is the most reasonable argument on that side. The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return. In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees. Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in? I think he would like to achieve whatever success he can within the limits he has now decided on. So yes, he only wants success if he can do it quite cheaply. Whether it has anything to do with selling I'm not sure, I just think he has decided he wants to limit the amount he has to subsidise us by. I think it's unlikely he will find a buyer in the near future - if he does 20 or 30 million here or there won't make any difference to them anyway. So yes, sadly finance does come before footballing progress with him, I can't deny that. And we're not going to get success on the cheap (sensible investment perhaps!), so the club is just standing still as long as he's there. He's an irrisposible owner, just as one is if they let the club go bust too. Well, when I say "cheap" I mean acquiring the kind of players we already have. Often for below their market value. I think progress is possible under Ashley, though less likely than if he would spend more. Say we have an usually good season and finish in the top 8, it would only take another couple of decent players to establish us at that level. Yes we are relying on some luck, but there's a lot of that in football if you can't build a Man City-style team. he wont do it though, he wont capitalise on a good season despite his lack of investment and planning, just like he wont capitalise on getting 'silly money' for a player we could do with right now. his attitude to finishing 8th would be, how much did that cost us? right, can we do it for 75%? Exactly, what a brilliant chance we have to push the club on this summer after receiving an unexpected 30m on top of the other revenue. Up until now we have not made that push. Meanwhile people are paying good money for season tickets, hoping we can gradually push up the league every year - or thats the natural mindset for a fan anyway - and we are not even attempting to. Like people have said, maybe we will sign some real quality before the window shuts, beef up the squad, we'll see. But Pardew's contradictions implies otherwise.

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date. We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now. Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out. We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs. This is the most reasonable argument on that side. The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return. In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees. Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in? I think he would like to achieve whatever success he can within the limits he has now decided on. So yes, he only wants success if he can do it quite cheaply. Whether it has anything to do with selling I'm not sure, I just think he has decided he wants to limit the amount he has to subsidise us by. I think it's unlikely he will find a buyer in the near future - if he does 20 or 30 million here or there won't make any difference to them anyway. So yes, sadly finance does come before footballing progress with him, I can't deny that. And we're not going to get success on the cheap (sensible investment perhaps!), so the club is just standing still as long as he's there. He's an irrisposible owner, just as one is if they let the club go bust too. Well, when I say "cheap" I mean acquiring the kind of players we already have. Often for below their market value. I think progress is possible under Ashley, though less likely than if he would spend more. Say we have an usually good season and finish in the top 8, it would only take another couple of decent players to establish us at that level. Yes we are relying on some luck, but there's a lot of that in football if you can't build a Man City-style team. If we're lucky with injuries then aye, we do have some good players like Ba, but if we did finish top 8 then to me its obvious bid for, lets say, Tiote would come in and he'd be sold, and the cycle starts again. The more Ashley & Llambias lie to everyone including players, the more new players will be reluctant to sign for us too. The amount of repect and authority Pardew has will come into question more & more aswell. Its an unnecessary uphill struggle, due to the owner's focus on driving down the wage bill as much as possible and his ego I'd say too.

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date. We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now. Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out. We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs. This is the most reasonable argument on that side. The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return. In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees. Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in? I think he would like to achieve whatever success he can within the limits he has now decided on. So yes, he only wants success if he can do it quite cheaply. Whether it has anything to do with selling I'm not sure, I just think he has decided he wants to limit the amount he has to subsidise us by. I think it's unlikely he will find a buyer in the near future - if he does 20 or 30 million here or there won't make any difference to them anyway. So yes, sadly finance does come before footballing progress with him, I can't deny that. And we're not going to get success on the cheap (sensible investment perhaps!), so the club is just standing still as long as he's there. He's an irrisposible owner, just as one is if they let the club go bust too.

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date. We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now. Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out. We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs. This is the most reasonable argument on that side. The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return. In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees. Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in?

cheers Sherlock there's cutting costs and cutting costs - you're so keen to compare football to other businesses would a manufacturing company cut costs by using inferior materials, machinery and people and expect their business to maintain itself or grow? i f***ing doubt it unless you have no choice, i.e. going bust is looming, you don't just butcher everything, cut every cost and stop investing in expanding your business, there has to be balance - presently we have no balance, it's all one way ashley is not in that position, he's not short of money himself he's choosing to run the club this way As Ian is saying - it is about getting the balance right. I think Ashley should be spending some more money, but I can see the reasoning why he might not think it is prudent to do so. Until anyone of us actually knows the exact financial state of NUFC, we are all guessing. As for other businesses, if a manufacturing company saw that it was spending too much on its employees, materials etc, then of course it would cut its costs. Why wouldn't it? If it is making a loss, it would look to cut costs wherever it could. I assume once the manufacturing company had stabilised itself, it would then reassess and work out if investment would increase profitability or how it would work. My personal view is that NUFC are at this point or certainly close to it. I don't see that Ashley's personal wealth comes into it though - unless I have misunderstood your point. It isn't as if you buy a football club and are then duty bound to pump money into it. Arguably he has already done that and has had enough. He's duty bound to push the team forward, the main function of the 'company'. But it looks like he's happy to simply stay in the Premier League, with no interest in pushing further - that is not acceptable. IF we dont replace Barton and Enrique Im guessing with quality, and then some really, then it couldnt be more blatent.

I feel the same, don't understand why everyone hates him at all. He could resign in protest, but how would that help us? Any manager we have will have to work with Ashley and Derek. Because some people think he has intetionally strung the fans along.

Sports Direct, is fucking shit We are the Geordies & Ashleys a tit!

sorry but it doesn't work like that, he's bought a football club and needs to act accordingly let's say he bought a company that provided a service but was burned on the debt like he was with us how likely is he to make it succeed and pay back by cutting spending and providing a poorer service to his customers? not very if he'd bought a famous comic book company 'cause he liked comic books, he'd not succeed by cutting production costs, hiring cheaper artists and writers and generally destroying the morale of his company and fanbase would he? the man is an utter c*** Exactly, people are talking as if his name was picked out of a hat as the unlucky bugger who had to buy us. It was his choice to buy us, so there was motivation to do so. So what was (and is) that motivation? You cant just buy a football club and then act beyond the realms of normality as to what's appropriate for the club because 'its costing him money' and 'we owe him money'... he choose to buy it! So it is then his duty to attempt to run it with some intention of making the main purpose of the damn thing work - the football side, what happens on the pitch. And there's a difference between putting the clubs future at risk and spending some sensible money, surley.