timnufc22

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date. We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now. Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out. We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs. This is the most reasonable argument on that side. The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return. In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees. Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in? I think he would like to achieve whatever success he can within the limits he has now decided on. So yes, he only wants success if he can do it quite cheaply. Whether it has anything to do with selling I'm not sure, I just think he has decided he wants to limit the amount he has to subsidise us by. I think it's unlikely he will find a buyer in the near future - if he does 20 or 30 million here or there won't make any difference to them anyway. So yes, sadly finance does come before footballing progress with him, I can't deny that. And we're not going to get success on the cheap (sensible investment perhaps!), so the club is just standing still as long as he's there. He's an irrisposible owner, just as one is if they let the club go bust too. Well, when I say "cheap" I mean acquiring the kind of players we already have. Often for below their market value. I think progress is possible under Ashley, though less likely than if he would spend more. Say we have an usually good season and finish in the top 8, it would only take another couple of decent players to establish us at that level. Yes we are relying on some luck, but there's a lot of that in football if you can't build a Man City-style team. he wont do it though, he wont capitalise on a good season despite his lack of investment and planning, just like he wont capitalise on getting 'silly money' for a player we could do with right now. his attitude to finishing 8th would be, how much did that cost us? right, can we do it for 75%? Exactly, what a brilliant chance we have to push the club on this summer after receiving an unexpected 30m on top of the other revenue. Up until now we have not made that push. Meanwhile people are paying good money for season tickets, hoping we can gradually push up the league every year - or thats the natural mindset for a fan anyway - and we are not even attempting to. Like people have said, maybe we will sign some real quality before the window shuts, beef up the squad, we'll see. But Pardew's contradictions implies otherwise.

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date. We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now. Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out. We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs. This is the most reasonable argument on that side. The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return. In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees. Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in? I think he would like to achieve whatever success he can within the limits he has now decided on. So yes, he only wants success if he can do it quite cheaply. Whether it has anything to do with selling I'm not sure, I just think he has decided he wants to limit the amount he has to subsidise us by. I think it's unlikely he will find a buyer in the near future - if he does 20 or 30 million here or there won't make any difference to them anyway. So yes, sadly finance does come before footballing progress with him, I can't deny that. And we're not going to get success on the cheap (sensible investment perhaps!), so the club is just standing still as long as he's there. He's an irrisposible owner, just as one is if they let the club go bust too. Well, when I say "cheap" I mean acquiring the kind of players we already have. Often for below their market value. I think progress is possible under Ashley, though less likely than if he would spend more. Say we have an usually good season and finish in the top 8, it would only take another couple of decent players to establish us at that level. Yes we are relying on some luck, but there's a lot of that in football if you can't build a Man City-style team. If we're lucky with injuries then aye, we do have some good players like Ba, but if we did finish top 8 then to me its obvious bid for, lets say, Tiote would come in and he'd be sold, and the cycle starts again. The more Ashley & Llambias lie to everyone including players, the more new players will be reluctant to sign for us too. The amount of repect and authority Pardew has will come into question more & more aswell. Its an unnecessary uphill struggle, due to the owner's focus on driving down the wage bill as much as possible and his ego I'd say too.

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date. We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now. Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out. We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs. This is the most reasonable argument on that side. The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return. In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees. Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in? I think he would like to achieve whatever success he can within the limits he has now decided on. So yes, he only wants success if he can do it quite cheaply. Whether it has anything to do with selling I'm not sure, I just think he has decided he wants to limit the amount he has to subsidise us by. I think it's unlikely he will find a buyer in the near future - if he does 20 or 30 million here or there won't make any difference to them anyway. So yes, sadly finance does come before footballing progress with him, I can't deny that. And we're not going to get success on the cheap (sensible investment perhaps!), so the club is just standing still as long as he's there. He's an irrisposible owner, just as one is if they let the club go bust too.

You're arguing a point which is 2 years out of date. We were relegated and had to cut costs and that's behind us now. Yes, we still have the debt but that debt is supposed to be an interest free loan from the owner who we are told has no intention of taking any money out of the club, which is a lie anyway as he already has taken money out. We're now in a situation where we have cut our costs and have started on a recovery and we need to invest to sustain the recovery, not cut costs. This is the most reasonable argument on that side. The question is where should the balance be. The problem, and where football is different to other businesses, is that it's very difficult to equate investment with return. In manufacturing, I know if I invest enough to make 100 more things, I get a certain profit on those things. Football has no such guarantees. Do you agree that it looks like Ashley does not really care where we finish, as long as its not the bottom 3? That it looks likely the club is not being ran with progression on the field on mind, instead to keep things ticking over with PL status and reducing the wage bill until a buyer comes in?

cheers Sherlock there's cutting costs and cutting costs - you're so keen to compare football to other businesses would a manufacturing company cut costs by using inferior materials, machinery and people and expect their business to maintain itself or grow? i f***ing doubt it unless you have no choice, i.e. going bust is looming, you don't just butcher everything, cut every cost and stop investing in expanding your business, there has to be balance - presently we have no balance, it's all one way ashley is not in that position, he's not short of money himself he's choosing to run the club this way As Ian is saying - it is about getting the balance right. I think Ashley should be spending some more money, but I can see the reasoning why he might not think it is prudent to do so. Until anyone of us actually knows the exact financial state of NUFC, we are all guessing. As for other businesses, if a manufacturing company saw that it was spending too much on its employees, materials etc, then of course it would cut its costs. Why wouldn't it? If it is making a loss, it would look to cut costs wherever it could. I assume once the manufacturing company had stabilised itself, it would then reassess and work out if investment would increase profitability or how it would work. My personal view is that NUFC are at this point or certainly close to it. I don't see that Ashley's personal wealth comes into it though - unless I have misunderstood your point. It isn't as if you buy a football club and are then duty bound to pump money into it. Arguably he has already done that and has had enough. He's duty bound to push the team forward, the main function of the 'company'. But it looks like he's happy to simply stay in the Premier League, with no interest in pushing further - that is not acceptable. IF we dont replace Barton and Enrique Im guessing with quality, and then some really, then it couldnt be more blatent.

I feel the same, don't understand why everyone hates him at all. He could resign in protest, but how would that help us? Any manager we have will have to work with Ashley and Derek. Because some people think he has intetionally strung the fans along.

Sports Direct, is fucking shit We are the Geordies & Ashleys a tit!

sorry but it doesn't work like that, he's bought a football club and needs to act accordingly let's say he bought a company that provided a service but was burned on the debt like he was with us how likely is he to make it succeed and pay back by cutting spending and providing a poorer service to his customers? not very if he'd bought a famous comic book company 'cause he liked comic books, he'd not succeed by cutting production costs, hiring cheaper artists and writers and generally destroying the morale of his company and fanbase would he? the man is an utter c*** Exactly, people are talking as if his name was picked out of a hat as the unlucky bugger who had to buy us. It was his choice to buy us, so there was motivation to do so. So what was (and is) that motivation? You cant just buy a football club and then act beyond the realms of normality as to what's appropriate for the club because 'its costing him money' and 'we owe him money'... he choose to buy it! So it is then his duty to attempt to run it with some intention of making the main purpose of the damn thing work - the football side, what happens on the pitch. And there's a difference between putting the clubs future at risk and spending some sensible money, surley.

Well, it would be if he wasn't complicit in them Ian, but let's overlook that. I'm confused. How do you know he's complicit in them? Err.......Because he's still here. If he wasn't complicit in them why the f*** would he stay? He's lost 48% of last seasons goals, a solid captain and the promise of the AC money being re-invested. If he wasn't complicit do you think he would stay? Not to mention the bullshit he's pedalling about bore holes and the missing £35m. I personally believe his job description to be first team coach (i.e. the footballing side) and as Golfmag suggested, he probably has a remit to reduce the wage bill (and buy cheaper players with big sell on values). On paper, that is something I don't have a problem with. I don't believe, however, that Pardew in an ideal world would have wanted Barton, Jose, Carroll and Nolan to go. I just think he has little say over which players are the ones to go. If you want to blame that on him, then that's your right, but personally I find that over the top. What you need to ask yourself, though is, every manager from now on will be working under the same job description... that much is clear. So by that reckoning, will you hate every manager we have in charge under this regime from now on? If so, you may as well give up now. From a footballing point of view, I don't see what he has done so wrong. I pretty much agree with that top bit apart from I think he has no say at all more or less on players and thats left to Carr/Dekka. The majority of bad feeling on here mind comes from the way he was linked with the job way before Hughton was binned and was a pretty leftfield appointment at the best of times & that s*** sticks and rightfully so IMO. Yeah I understand that, and if you look back through my posts to that time, I was annoyed too... but I'm just trying to judge him on the job he's done, which has been OK in my eyes. I just find it hard to blame episodes like todays on him. And I do believe he genuinely wanted to keep all said players...but it's not in his control. Part of the point though, is that he does talk a good game. And some would say doing a good job in his and Ashley's eyes consists of stringing the fans along with that smooth talk. If he knew one of the conditions was to be ok with the wage bill getting trimmed, and generally signing players at low cost, then talking about re-investing the 35m would be knowingly stringing the fans along.

He never really had a reputation to worry about. Like I said earlier, his career was in the doldrums before the fat scumbag gave him his ticket back to the big time. Aye dont get me wrong, he's not got the repuation as a top quality manager or anything, though he did show some good signs at West Ham, and I think this job was going to swing things one way or the other as to how people in general rate him. Maybe we'll sign a few players yet, but the wage bill story sounds very close to the mark when you look at how, for example, he seems perfectly accepting that we've not re-invested the money from player sales.

When he arrived he said he was going to be the voice of the fans, and banging on Mike's door for investment; he saw that as a big part of his. In January he said "The only positive I can give Newcastle fans is every penny will be re-invested into the team, Mike has assured me and I believe him". Now, after spending 500k, he's saying "People dont realise we've spent a lot of money to get these players in (Ba, Marvaux & Cabaye)"... That does look like leading the fans down a garden path dosent it? Its fairly big u-turn in the space of 4 months. I was convinced when he was appointed it was purley a 'jobs for the boys' decision, and Hughton was starting to 'demand' too much, trying push the club on. But hearing him talk I thought maybe he's just been really niave, and actually thinks he can do what other's couldnt - get Ashley to back him. But to me, and canny obvious now he was always happy to tow the line for Ashley from day 1, and accept whatever stupid decisions are made. Its also obvious he did know about the job months before (not days before, as he said in his press conference) with him becoming favourite to replace Hughton around October, thats such a random name to be favourite at the time there's got to be something in that, throw in golfmags claims too. Its a bit of a tricky situation because his repuation as a football manager is on the line, something I think he wants to prove at the same time, but juggling that with accepting whatever Ashley does is becoming harder & harder.

He's a really good talker, and actually not as bad a manager as some make out imo, but boy is his credibility and influence as manager looking worse & worse each passing day. For whatever reason, he's going to accept anything Ashley & Llambias do, and the spot-light should be put on him a bit more by the media in terms of how little influence he clearly has, and why.

“Mike Ashley hasn’t told me how much I’ve got to spend, he made it clear when Andy [Carroll] went that that money will be reinvested in the squad and I have no doubt that it will be." Hmmmm.

Because we should be building on what we've got, and building up the squad, competiton for places. Of course Nolan could have played plenty of games next season imo, injuries/suspensions/form... If we had to sell him to free some funds from his wage then that dosent sound promosing finanically.

well said It's true. It's always the same group of people who try desperately to twist everything into negativity. Can be very tiresome. Try to find any moaning from me regarding Nolan. There is none. And we salute you Mr. Lets face it, Nolan is a average player. And in general play contributes little to our play. He happen to score 12 goals and someone had to drink p*ss. But i doubt he will score 12 next season, and then he is a passenger imo. We need more dynamic players, and strikers that scores for us. Don`t get me wrong, i love the man to death as a person. But for the club to evolve, we need better players. And when these better players are injured, Ryan Taylor will fill in. Hurray. Guthrie, Gosling? They way some people are going on here, its like we sold Messi to Kazakhstan for 2 bucks and a used toothpick. I will come back here 1 sept and admit i was wrong, and that we are f***ed if we do not have decent cover at the end of the window. As there is NO excuse for us not have a young decent up and coming squad next season. I just rest my case until the window is over, then i make my verdict. Nothing more we can do now, right? Guthrie and Gosling? That's progress alright, real strength in depth. So you want to give Nolan a 5y contract? 50k(?) a week? To add depth? f***ing hell man, are you daft? We should be looking to bring 1-2 young promising cm`s then, do give us depth. Players who will develop and be better players, not some retirement home. This is my opinion, but if Nolan was not happy with his contract, who have 2 more years left. Then he can go. I hate to say it, but why should we extend it? Rather use the money to invest in some prospects then. Is there only two options like? Give him a 5 year deal or sell immediately? I absolutely despair. Exactly, whether he leaves in 2 years or not, theres no reason to sell him now when he's an important player.

Aye, dont give him a massive 5yr contract, but that dont sell him when he has 2yrs left!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IbdZNvl_vM Cabaye man, Cabaye Cabaye man

They'll either ask you to name somehwere else other than L4 or dump you somewhere random themselves, so I'd get onto them and tell them you want the SE Corner if you want to stay with the same group. Cheers bud. Would I be able to do it over the phone or would I have to go over with my receipt? Im not 100% sure mate, by the sounds of it you should be able to do it over the phone. I'd get a row nearer the back too.

They'll either ask you to name somehwere else other than L4 or dump you somewhere random themselves, so I'd get onto them and tell them you want the SE Corner if you want to stay with the same group.

If that bastard comes out complaining of abusive chanting towards our 'saviour'... It dosent matter what they say, United For Newcastle have put their statement out there, their shambolic treatment is self explanatory, the only important thing now is spreading the word about the SE Corner and pissing them two off the first game of the season when they take their seats and it dawns on them they havent split most of us up.

They've strung everyone along when L4 was put to them, saying they'd be looking at it, trying to find a place for us to re-locate, first priority etc, and then rang everyone saying you cant have a season ticket in L4 as it is now a non-season ticket area. Was really looking forward to it aswell, but we are re-locating to the SE Corner instead, and need to get the word out as much as possible. We can still have most fans from L7 together if we work together, and can still make it a blessing in disguise - lower down, any atmosphere might spread more etc. If getting a season ticket is a problem you can always get general sale tickets in SE Corner instead, find out exactly which block you'd prefer to be that way, just as long as we stick together.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/5903/gallowgateend.th.jpg Uploaded with ImageShack.us Thats roughly which block is which, I'd love that area to look like what Leazes L7 looked liked this season.

Don't worry, a lot of fans are moving here. Trying to give this move momentum. Exactly, we can easily still turn this into a positive, imagine his face first game of the season when he takes his seat and opposite him the SE Corner is full of fans standing, singing, still together & not backing down. Stick together, if we have the numbers (3,000 from Leazes corner) we have the power, spread the word, get the momentum going and we can still turn this into a blessing in diguise and shove it right back down the wankers throat.

You can always get tickets on general sale there instead (Strawberry corner), if we stick together we can give a response to this that he's not going to get rid of us on the first home game of the season.