timnufc22

Wow. That is painful to look at. This is a piss take, an attack on our identity & heritage, and an attack on the fans. This over-rides any transfer business or whatever happens on the pitch, he can sell which ever player he wants, fail to sign a striker etc, but this is the real news. Totally unacceptable is an understatement, this is rape of the club.

They need to ask him his opinion on the Newcastle United sign being taken down & replaced, and if he understands the disgust the fans feel about that. That for me over-shadows any faluire's in the transfer market, and has undone some of the good work getting (potentially) good players like Santon & Cabaye.

It's either stubbornness to the extreme or there's no funds being made available to him. They've came out a number of times and said there are funds for there manager if he wants to spend. If thats changed then they really need to clarify that.

To say "buying players is always the english solution" or whatever is another stubborn, offensive comment to Arsenal fans. You couldnt think stubborness could go this far, its just crazy, what happened to common sense?

He was one of the few players to come out of the relegation season with credit, he generally played well that season, its just a myth he suddenly came good in the Championship imo. Once we were relegated everyone was saying how Enrique was going to storm the Championship.

Because you believe in you philosophy and system, and that becomes almost more important than winning trophies. As a manager though you have to be able to see the bigger picture IMO, Wenger is paid to win trophies by Arsenal and while I admire his philosophy and his history it is arguably this flaw which is unnecessarily holding them back. If the philosophy/system isn't good enough you have to be able to see that and adapt as necessary. The philosphy in terms of style of play has become so one-deminsional and actually boring a lot of the time imo, if you look past the tv hype. Like I said, tippy tappy football, most the time trying to score a goal by walking in the net, no long shots, no bullet headers, when they actually put a cross in the box against us at SJP I didnt feel in any danger as a fan at all, because they've only got Van Persie 'up there' but he drifts to the wing/deep etc anyway.

In what way? Well he's reconstructed the whole club from top to bottom with emphasis on youth, and developing players to play the Arsenal way. I just mean I can see why he's reluctant to admit that it isn't going to work this time around and go out and bring in half a team. If something isnt working then its his natural duty to at least try and tinker it, change it the plan in some way. To refuse to do that because it would be admitting he's made some mistakes is arrogance in the extreme, and probably partly the problem. And its not half a new team - I think in general everyone agrees that a Centre-back, Central Midfielder, and Striker would improve Arsenal's chances of winning the league immensley. Buying the good players isnt easy obviously, but surley Scott Dann from Birmingham would improve their defense, add more grit & physicality which is what theyre lacking. Someone in the middle who puts his foot in and shows leadership & organisation. A more physical striker to give more variation, and to actually make use of Gibbs bombing forward putting in crosses (Demba Ba might have been decent for them). Its unfair on the young players out there who have no experience to look to, no leader to guide them through games when it gets tough, hes putting it all on their shoulders and theyre not going to develop to their full poential surley in that kind of set up.

In what way?

Used to love watching Arsenal play too. Their passing, pace, skill and direct play. You had Vieira, Pires, Parlour, Edu, Ljunberg, Bergkamp, Henry, backed up by the grit of players like Campbell and Keown, and even Grimondi, and players like Wiltord, Reyes and Kanu who contributed their fair share. They had everything, and had the perfect balance. Then Wenger decided to change that ethos which was successful to having the team full of small, young players, with experience largley thrown out the window & disregarded. Now they play tippy-tappy football on the half way line, are not allowed to shoot, and play practically with no striker - Van Persie on his own? Which makes any cross into the box utterly pointless, and any set peice pointless, as their centre backs arent exactly beasts either (I know Djouru scored against us, but it was very much a rarity). Then Wenger patronises the fans by mentioning Man City's spending, value for money, 'not going to put the club in jeorpady' etc. No-one is asking for Man City spending, and 9/10 you are always going to pay a few million more than the player is worth/value etc. How would Scott Dann put the clubs fianance in jeorpady? It wouldnt, so dont disrespect the fans with the same cliche's. Thats all without his comments on match inccidents and behavoiur on the touch-line. And Im talking from the point of view of what they were only around 5years ago - the immense team, style and success he had built up - and how he's allowing it to just dwindle away. Obviously they are still one of the better teams in the league, but the change of philosophy, and subsequent stubborness - refusing to simply use common sense - is crazy really.

I'm not talking about it being safe standing, just people standing infront of their seats like in the away end of SJP and the last few seasons in the Leazes Corner. If everyone stood in the SE Corner nobody would get banned as they couldn't enforce it. Either way over the next few seasons I've got a feeling more people will start moving to the SE corner for the atmosphere/to stand, I can only hope. Of course they can. They warn you, they formally warn you with a letter then they cancel your ticket so you can't get in the ground. If a steward asks you to sit down during the game and you refuse/kick up a fuss and they make a note of your seat you've not got a leg to stand on. It might not mean the coppers ejecting you during the course of a game but the stewards will quickly get sick of telling the same people to sit down. It'll start with a few and snowball if the rest don't fall into line. Didn't happen for many a season in the Leazes L7 and then 3 seasons in the Leazes Corner. If they enforced it with thousands of people standing (like I said, if everyone there stood, as things do stand at small numbers then aye they're an easy target) then they'd never have the balls to ban thousands of fans from the ground, it's not happened at a single club in England as far as I'm aware and I severly doubt we'd be the first to attempt it. Edit: Suppose I should have said wouldn't than couldn't, but point still stands. They could, but like I said I very much doubt they'd dare ban thousands of ST holders from the ground. Yep. Like someone said - the 'danger' of standing is a total con we are supposed to just accept, when it reality we are being completely shafted. If they are going to basically keep enforcing this con, with no admission that standing is not dangerous, then people have to take things into their own hands. The defeatist & easy thing to do would be to shrug your shoulders and think there is no choice, but they cannot deal with the numbers which are on our side if get organised - e.g. Leazes Corner. We just need to do it in a way which is not abusive or aggressive, and trying to co-operate with our fellow fans, swapping seats for example if possible.

Aye exactly.

Well said. Doubt they'll give a s*** anyway, though. Most of the fans in the corner are simply wanting to create the best possible atmosphere at SJP. I heard them - because they got the gallowgate end going against arsenal sometimes. There may be a minority of fans more arsed about stewards etc, but thats wrong to tarnish the rest like that.

Anyone giving stick out to people who ask if they can sit down is wrong, obviously. Likewise anyone who shouts 'sick the fuck down you twat' for example. If theres an old woman or someone with a medcial condition behind then just sit down, imo, unless you can swap seats. There dosent need to be any abusive crap, and that goes for the steward malarky too. "Are you going to sit down?" "No, I'd prefer not to" *carries on supporting team .... thats all that is needed. "Shove your seats up your arse" etc is inviting conflict and potentially bringing on problems. The Arsenal game showed there is potential to make the ground louder, give it time to grow. The Leazes L7 only started with a very small group - it ended up 3,000 strong. We need that core together, starting the atmosphere, because there were times against Arsenal when the singing spread through to the Gallowgate end and made a difference. But to do this we've got to leave out any confrontation, and not respond with a 'fuck you' attitude.

I was right next to it in the Gallowgate and aye, it was promising stuff. A good amount stayed firm when the stewards came, well done. People just need to persist with it, and it will grow more & more. To anyone saying 'but standing isnt allowed' I'd say we are being sold a lie; it is not dangerous, the reason for standing being against regulations is a total con, which should be looked into. It definetely got the Gallowgate end going sometimes and the noise was quality. Well done to some lads right at the back of the Gallowgate keeping things ticking over, it helps to have little pockets here & there. I'd personally say its pointless singing 'we'll never sit down' etc because your sort of inviting conflict then. The fact that your standing is enough, its best to just continue supporting the team when the stewards come, and ignore them/politely tell them 'no' and carry on singing for the lads. As annoying as they are, they are only doing there job, and being confrontation will only play into their hands.

We know the score but Jose should keep things like that to himself IMO. Disrespectful to a lot of people who thought the world of him. But Liverpool are one of the biggest clubs in England & the world - got nothing to do with Newcastle.

Liverpool are potentially in with a shout of CL qualification in the next few years, I dont see how its just about money either. Yes Downing was over-priced and is not the greatest all-round player in the world, but he should serve a a very useful function of supplying Carroll with crosses. Adam takes a brilliant set piece from that point of view too. Suarez is Suarez, Dalglish has even brought the confidence out of players like Lucas. Tthe owner seems level-headed and is trying to push the club forward, I do believe Enrique appreciated the fans support and grew to really like the place, but as a player coming to his prime, and not a local lad, its such a totally understandable decision.

That struck home. Unfortunately it's his club and as it says further up in the article, he now wants the club to be self-financing without putting in any more of his own money. Not a situation which will make fans happy but unless there's genuine interest from outside buyers then we'll just have to suck it and see. That in bold just totally baffles me, it really does. So why do the fans resent him? What are the reasons? Oh aye, because he lied to them for starters when selling those 3year season tickets! If you wanna talk about when his bubble burst, he forced out the manager, a legend who had managed to restore confidence for fans & players, by lying to him and allowing him to be completely undermined by Dennis bloody Wise. Even when he was given the chance to sort it out he chose to keep Wise on. From then he's made one stupid decision to another, with a fair amount of p*ss taking along the way (sports direct on the gallowgate roof, allowing his mate to publically slag off people like Alan Shearer, and the fans regurlaly). The fiasco with Keegan showed the amount of class Ashley & his cronies have, because they still act completely devoid of it up till now. So guess what? He's not respected! Shock Horror! ...and guess what? He won't put more money into improving the squad for the benefit of people who can't stand him. Would you? If I had cocked up as badly as he has I'd take the critism and dislike on the chin, because theres an obvious point behind it. Its about motives for bing here though isnt it? Yes I'd put money in (aswell as actually showing that little thing called respect to fans & players) and attempt to turn things around because the chances are people might start warming to me again. If he dosent put money in because people react to his conduct that is just childish, this is the running of a football club not some social club, but it obviously shows the character & ego of the man, which was revealed years ago anyway. For an owner to invest his own money into a football club rather than run it as a business needs real commitment and love for the club. Ashley has made too many cock ups and has turned the fan base against him which for me has torpedoed any chance he will invest with any risk to himself, if he ever was going to. I think the best chance of him doing that are if he gets excited about the club again rather than be viewed as a villain. Which is why I won't support NUST or Supporters for Change as the only way things will change is if someone buys the club, not through agitators who p*ss the current owner off. The ball is in his court to prove his credibility and show some enthusiasm for the club in response to those mistakes - some of which involve leading fans & managers down the garden path. If he is unwilling to do that because the fans took, and take, exception to his actions then it is his own childlishness that has torpedoed any chance of investing some of his own money... if he wants to get excited about the club again then its well within his capability to change people's opinion of him by putting that money in, change his structure of having an MD completely unsuited for the role for example, and create more of a buzz. And to be fair, its not like theres people waiting outside for him, and police rushing him through the entrance! Whenever he's had stick its mainly came from the pocket of 3,000 out 50,000 fans in the corner way above him, and again has been in reaction to stupid & offensive decisions. If he's sitting there thinking 'bastards, youve hurt my feelings, you should like me regardless what I do, sing my name please and I might show some passion for the club' then it sums up his ego and arrogance.

That struck home. Unfortunately it's his club and as it says further up in the article, he now wants the club to be self-financing without putting in any more of his own money. Not a situation which will make fans happy but unless there's genuine interest from outside buyers then we'll just have to suck it and see. That in bold just totally baffles me, it really does. So why do the fans resent him? What are the reasons? Oh aye, because he lied to them for starters when selling those 3year season tickets! If you wanna talk about when his bubble burst, he forced out the manager, a legend who had managed to restore confidence for fans & players, by lying to him and allowing him to be completely undermined by Dennis bloody Wise. Even when he was given the chance to sort it out he chose to keep Wise on. From then he's made one stupid decision to another, with a fair amount of p*ss taking along the way (sports direct on the gallowgate roof, allowing his mate to publically slag off people like Alan Shearer, and the fans regurlaly). The fiasco with Keegan showed the amount of class Ashley & his cronies have, because they still act completely devoid of it up till now. So guess what? He's not respected! Shock Horror! ...and guess what? He won't put more money into improving the squad for the benefit of people who can't stand him. Would you? If I had cocked up as badly as he has I'd take the critism and dislike on the chin, because theres an obvious point behind it. Its about motives for bing here though isnt it? Yes I'd put money in (aswell as actually showing that little thing called respect to fans & players) and attempt to turn things around because the chances are people might start warming to me again. If he dosent put money in because people react to his conduct that is just childish, this is the running of a football club not some social club, but it obviously shows the character & ego of the man, which was revealed years ago anyway.

That struck home. Unfortunately it's his club and as it says further up in the article, he now wants the club to be self-financing without putting in any more of his own money. Not a situation which will make fans happy but unless there's genuine interest from outside buyers then we'll just have to suck it and see. That in bold just totally baffles me, it really does. So why do the fans resent him? What are the reasons? Oh aye, because he lied to them for starters when selling those 3year season tickets! If you wanna talk about when his bubble burst, he forced out the manager, a legend who had managed to restore confidence for fans & players, by lying to him and allowing him to be completely undermined by Dennis bloody Wise. Even when he was given the chance to sort it out he chose to keep Wise on. From then he's made one stupid decision to another, with a fair amount of piss taking along the way (sports direct on the gallowgate roof, allowing his mate to publically slag off people like Alan Shearer, and the fans regurlaly). The fiasco with Keegan showed the amount of class Ashley & his cronies have, because they still act completely devoid of it up till now. So guess what? He's not respected! Shock Horror!

Woop woop, another plan. We're all ears...

Part of me would really like to say that tbh. We're not going anywhere under Ashley, I want his time here to be as uncomfortable as possible to try and push him more & more towards selling.

Exactly, I cant complain about him going to Liverpool at all, they are capable of challenging for a top 4 spot, and if they dont get it they still might well win a cup. If Carroll's head is right etc I really believe he'll be something special over the next 10years, and he's got Adam, Downing (not a brilliant player overall imo but is a functional singing with regards to Carroll) and now Enrique to give him the service. Add Suarez in there, Merieles, and the promosing younger's they are capable of doing really well.

wasn't mort only ever going to be here for a year to help while Ashley got his feet under the table so to speak? Aye and his role when Keegan was bullshitted about the terms of the job is very suspect.

Journalists should be asking Pardew how much influence he has, whether he agreed to the wage bill getting cut as much as possible before getting appointed, asking him to explain his comments about the Carroll money.

Nah, I've come to terms with the fact I'm not going to change anyone's opinion. I am coming close to leaving the forum though, but I don't know where I'd get my football chat from. Champion. You've obviously backed yourself into a corner with your earlier views, so will continue to be contrary for the sake of it. Inochi, I don't personally think that Ian W's views are that far wrong (or at least a good chunk of them), although he does sometimes blindly stick to them no matter what, but I'm sure that is just to counteract the over-the-top reactions in the other direction. All in all, I'm of the opinion that both Barton and Ashley / Llambias are to blame. Barton for acting like a complete tool, and MA/DL for doing what they did. On the Pardew point, I'm still unsure of what he has actually done wrong in the eyes of supporters really, and whether he is simply "guilty by association". I'm sure he wouldn't have wanted to lose Barton, Nolan, Carroll etc specifically and I believe he doesn't have a say. His job is to pick the team and the odd incoming player, and if I judge him on that, I can't see how he's done such a bad job as some on here would make out. if i coud just answer on the pardew point. he's willingly been a part of an operation to cut costs and any semblance of ambition from the club. personally i'd quite like to see us have a go at being as successful as we can, and i dont think top 6 is out of the question. we wont ever try and achieve anything like that under ashley, pardew knows it and took the job on those terms. for that he's as much a money grabbing scumbag as any player you'd care to mention imo. You're not wrong, except that I do believe he would prefer to have lowered the costs without losing these specific players (i.e. got rid of the likes of Smith). I brought it up on here last night, but it's pretty clear he took the job knowing that he'd have to lower operating costs, but so will any future manager under Ashley, so what's the point in judging him on that? Every other manager we would get would be working under the same conditions. It just seems like you (not specifically you, but some people) may as well just get behind him and support him on the football side of things... which he's actually been pretty good at so far. Which is why it was quite mis-leading to say every penny of the 35m will be re-invested in the squad.