themanupstairs

I think Ashley's long term plan is to sell the club at a break even point or a slight profit and I believe the club is set-up and being ran for that very purpose. He's lowering the operating costs while raising the revenue which will result in a profit. There will also be cash in the bank, lots of it, and there will be no debts to third parties. We pay transfers up front these days for example.

 

We have a relatively young and small squad that hasn't cost mega money nor takes mega money out in terms of huge salaries, a squad that can be added to for relative little outlay as well as proved with Ba, Marveux etc. The managerial decisions and transfer policy are key factors in this and key inficators. Hughton wanted to retain players with no resale value who were on high wages, Nolan, Barton etc.

 

He also wanted to keep salable assets like Carrol which goes against the club's 'resale value' transfer policy. Ashley had to sack him because Hughton wanted to keep those players and players like them and also add to the squad with proven Premier League players too. Take Sol Campbell for example. The club initialy backed his decision to bring him in but he was being paid a decent wage for sitting on his arse.

 

Hughton would argue that his experience would be worth it along with the fact he could come in if there were injuries but Ashley and co do not think like that. They think about costs and other money factors and not football factors. This is why Pardew was appointed, someone who would agree and work with them and their transfer policy.

 

We'll sell Tiote in January for example and the club will continue to do this selling for a profit until there is enough cash in the bank if you like to entice a would be buyer. That is why the stadium has been 'renamed' and advertising plastered all over the place - to say to a would be buyer look what you're buying, look what you get. You get a debt free club that owes no money to any outside parties. You get a club generating a huge turnover but with low operating costs.

 

A club making a profit. A club with money in the bank (Carroll, Nolan, Enrique, Tiote, season ticket money not just now but for X number of years). A club with its own stadium and state of the art facilities. A club with a prosperous youth system. A club with a young squad with protential. In many ways this is actually a good way to run the club but for us fans we will suffer because we'll keep seeing our best players sold or wanting away and we'll also miss out on many players because we wont pay the wages or fees.

 

Regarding the likes of Cabaye and Tiote and how we are getting these players, perhaps paying money up front is helping. I'd rather have 3.5m up front for example rather than 5m spread over 5 years or something. When will we get sold? That could happen this season or next or maybe 5 years time.

The dilemma for all connected to NUFC is in how to achieve that delicate balance between running a healthy and viable/profitable business to satisfy the club's owners/shareholders, and delivering enough success on the pitch to placate the supporters on the emotional side of things. It really is a delicate balance, and I do believe that the manager here is key to this. If there was a manager in place who got his relatively small squad to play good attractive football, I believe it would go a long way to keeping the supporters happy. In our case, we tend to get more annoyed and less patient when we see dour long ball rubbish as deployed by Sam Allardyce, whereas there was a positive general feeling when we were in the CCC, and played some good football at times under Hughton.

At the end of the day, yes the football club is a business, and the football played on the pitch, regardless of the personnel, is the product provided to its paying customers. What I'd say to Ashley is, keep us entertained, with a relatively reasonable amount of success, and run the club any whichever way you want to.

What is it with Ian W? He always seems to put a positive spin on everything. Is he really that stupid?

It was Liverpool that tried to sign Jelavic for £9m?

 

Haha, what the f***?  Dalglish is insane.

Wish them nothing but ill will. Really hope they bomb this season. Again.

It is a bit of a basic mistake to make - in any deal to buy a company which still has debt in place the first thing you check for is a "change of control" provision, lesson number one.

 

It is the sort of thing you can find out within about 10 minutes if you have the document in front of you, it isn't something that needs a team of expensive lawyers working on for weeks.

 

Spot on.  Probably not even 10 mins required.

 

So there's little or no chance Ashley overlooked it?

Not sure what's being implied in the above post, but I reckon you're right. Speaking to a corporate lawyer mate of mine about this the other day, and he thinks there's no chance Ashley didn't know about the immediate repayments, should control be wrestled away from SJH. He may have not done enough dd before making the offer to know the structure and nature of the debts, but he should have certainly known the big picture of what he was getting himself into in terms of the quagmire that was the way we operated back then.

is marveaux injured or what is the deal with not being on the bench vs Fukham?

He was on the bench iirc?

So Mike buys the club for 138m and labels the entire cost of the purchase as "club debt". Have I gotten it right?

 

Pretty much. Mike loans the money to SJH Ltd, who actually buy the club. Now this loan has been added onto the club's debt, to be paid back to Mike.

 

Would make sense as to why we've not spent much. Of course the main problem with us doing this as opposed to Man Utd (who weren't very happy with the Glazers take over anyway) is that we don't have nearly as much money coming in as they do, resulting the net debt growing while the St James Holdings debt is being paid back. A lot more selling of players to come if that's the case.

Yup. That's why I reckon we should just enjoy ourselves while the club is still in the top flight, and just take it season by season, and forget about building a competitive squad that can challenge for Europe anytime in the foreseeable future.

Really could have established ourself as a geneuine top 7-9 club with a little more wise investment IMO. One where finishing outside the top 10 is really not good enough. Instead, although some signings look promising, we've settled for what appears to be the minimum. I know people will argue 'well what's the point of aimng fr 7th as long as we stay' from the boards pont of view but that just shows what a sorry state it is. We're no longer about finishing as high as we can, we appear happy to be a Wigan type and just preserve our PL status.

 

People have also argued well x, y & z haven't spent money. To me that should have been even more of an incentive for us to do so, to really make up some ground or put daylight between us and other teams. We can't base ourselves on what others are or arent doing we hav o maximise our own chances of doingthe best that we possibly can and I don't think we've done that.

 

I'm not angry, I'm just disappointed.

 

Exactly. This could be the weakest PL for a while, and therefore a golden opportunity to progress. It's a shame we haven't taken it.

 

For me, this window was 5/10 - we signed some good players but also sold some of our best and most influential. Our squad hasn't really improved, in my opinion, except in the midfield area. I'm hopeful that some of our signings can push us on, but this depends on whether they settle in quickly. Unfortunately, we've sold many of the 'characters' in our dressing room, so it may take longer to integrate them than it would have otherwise.

 

Hopefully some of our youth - Krul, Sameobi, Vuckic - really come through this season.

Agreed, apart from the selling our best and most influential players part. 2 months ago, I'd have said our best 5 players were Coloccini, Ben Arfa, Tiote, Enrique and Barton. IMO Enrique would have still wanted to go to Liverpool even if we had offered him a much improved contract. Barton they've wanted rid of for some time now, and he wasn't doing himself any favors from their point of view. We've brought in Cabaye, who is on a par with Barton quality wise, and Santon who is a slight downgrade on Enrique in terms of profile, yet has more international caps and came from Inter.

We've kept 3 of our 5 best players by the end of it all, and added one or two who could be up there in time.

We are missing a quality forward who would have raised the club's profile, and improved the way we retain possession and helped to turn us into a real attacking force. With the names and prices that were knocking about for the last few weeks of the window, I feel we dallied for far too long, and failed in that objective. This is where we see what Pardew is made of as a football manager, and I pray we overachieve this season and strengthen eventually, rather than flatter to deceive and rue our missed opportunity.

we won't be bringing in a daft freebie this time round.

i rate most of the players we signed - but that doesn't make up for the lack of more signings

 

our four most important players of last season (debatable i know - but enrique, barton, carroll and nolan did make great contributions) are sold. and we cannot forget that without the goals of carroll and nolan we would have been relegated - and i am not sure who is going to take over - double ameobi?

 

I'm confident that one of Ba or Best will score more for us this seasson than Carroll did last season (if for no other reason than they will have twice a smany games to do so!). I guess we need one of them to outscore the Carroll/Best combined total though.

 

Nolan scored in 9 games last season, if you look at the games where his goal(s) that game were the difference between the two teams we would have had 5 points less (very crude I know and there is more to consider in those games....) I'd be looking for the Obertan/Marvaeux combination to replicate Nolan and Bartons contribution in terms of goals.

 

I guess I'm less worried about where the goals will come from, I think we will see quite a spread from our players this year, but more how will the engine room work. As long as Cabaye continues as he has started and Tiote quickly gets up to speed we will have a decent season (imo of course)

I might agree. Ba, Best and Shola are decent finishers, provided they are given a steady supply of clear cut chances. For that to happen, the midfield behind them must be up to the task. It is now up to Pardew to justify the club's failure to bring in a mobile forward by devising a game plan that really does change the way we have played the past few seasons. We can't be lumping the ball up to the strikers all game long, as you need a quality center forward to make things happen for you (Shearer, Carroll), and we don't have anywhere near that. We've now bought continental players, and Pardew must make sure we play continental football for it to work. We, and AP, better hope and pray it works.

I don't see what Barton has said wrong at all

 

We are all delusional fools. He is asset stripping from under our noses and yet we still have hope

 

Absolutely spot on imo

 

If he was asset stripping, a lot more than two 29 year old has-beens and a left-back (who left for at least half of his value) would have been sold.

 

Do the words Andy and Carroll mean anything to you?

I don't see what Barton has said wrong at all

 

We are all delusional fools. He is asset stripping from under our noses and yet we still have hope

 

Absolutely spot on imo

Then why don't you follow him down south and cheer him on every week?

Alternatively, do something about it!

As far as Nolan goes, how can one actually be on the decline physically when ur only 28? Surely nothing a proper diet and more conditioning couldnt fix. Imagine Nolan with a Kuyt-esque engine. Would of been a monster.

He had a couple of years with Bolton, and 2 and a half years at NUFC to trim down and get fit, and for whatever reason, he was still blowing out of his arse by half time. Despite having a knack for being in the right place at the right time, he still was far too slow, and far too immobile. Pardew came in and said he wanted us to change our playing style, a playing style where Nolan doesn't fit into. Rather see a consistently young dynamic midfield, bursting with energy, than a slow talisman who'll pop up with the odd instinctive goal.

Edit: I believe this was SBR's thinking when he tried to flog an aging Shearer, if that was ever true.

davidhall34 david hall

@

@lee_ryder @EveningChron feel so disgusted and angry! MA and DL are draining my love for football and nufc!, I wish i was born a mackem!!!!!

 

Seriously people, f*** off and get a grip.

what a mong

Beren, I don't really disagree with that post except that the club being in the black would have to happen for more than one year for it to stop being an objective, but the bit about liquidation is mental mind.

 

Fair enough

 

You can though, I hope, see that they have actually gambled on our long-term future by essentially cutting our feet from under us (Carroll, Nolan, Barton, Enrique) and then hoping the new legs (Obertan, Santon, Ba, Cabaye) keep us in the division over the course of two transfer windows?

 

And it is hoping, really. It isn't even financially prudent. It's gambling on one of the key components of all our revenue streams - Premiership football. We survived the second half of last season (thank you Leon Best, Jonas and Joey Barton, among others! ), but it's conceivable - at the time Carroll was sold we could have sunk like a stone. He was either getting our goals, or flicking them on for Nolan! (Pre-injury).

 

IMO, building on the core we had with lower staff/player turnover could have yielded better football, higher rankings, more money. Ashley/Llambias must be Conservatives though, because they're cutting public services left, right and centre and they don't really give a s*** about the consequences it has as long as it is ostensibly improving the balance sheet (oh look, an exaggerated analogy Apologies for the 'last refuge' gibe. Immature of me to say in retrospect).

 

Yeah, I've said before that the pace of the change in the squad is too fast for my liking. Any change of that pace is a risk.

 

But at the same time I don't think our outgoings are as bad as people think. Carroll obviously a massive blow, but Nolan not so much and he wanted to seek a better deal which we were right not to match. Barton again I would have liked to have kept but he accelerated his own departure with his twitter bollocks. I think the club overreacted a bit, but the principle was right. Enrique I believe was inevitable, he had just got good enough to play for a better team at the same time that his contract was running out.

 

Specifics aside, I agree we are gambling to a certain extent, I just think our chance of relegation is tiny enough to make me not that scared about it. Wood touched.

Was reading through the Nolan thread the other day, and it makes for hilarious reading in hindsight. You'd think he was our Ali Dia the way some went on about how shit he was, and now it seems the majority are furious he was sold. IMO he was the best captain the club has had for many years, and scored some important goals for us over 2 enjoyable season. But he was clearly on a rapid decline physically, and selling him for the maximum fee we could have got was the absolute correct decision from a footballing point of view. Big shame is that maximized fee wasn't re-invested in an obvious way that would show the fans where the club is headed.

Overall, the only deal we really got screwed on was Enrique. The AC money was daft, and Barton pushed himself out.

How is it not as bad as people are making out? Nobody is saying we're doomed to relegation or anything, just that we've somehow managed to come into the season with a squad that will probably finish mid table or lower, when with a bit of investment (that we actualy could have easily done) we could be challenging for Europe.

 

It's horrible to see the players we could have gotten, even so much as the players themselves pushingg for a move in some cases, but never due to either ineptitude, our our reluctance to actualy spend any money (we proper class at selling players like, Mike f***ing loves that).

Yup. Wish we knew the truth behind these so called bids we've made in the last few days. It might help us be more understanding of the club's situation, and give Pardew the patience any decent football manager deserves. As it stands, as soon as results start to go pear shaped, the fans will get on his back, and we may find ourselves replacing our manager for the umpteenth time in 5 minutes.

If we hadn't have had such an awful owner in the past, who spent way over the odds on everybody, we wouldn't hold these views.

 

Under shepherd we over spent to the max, and were held to ransom for wages, and ended up with complete mercenaries. You may not care about finances saying its only a few extra million, but we are now getting in top quality players, who want to sign for the club, not the wages or agents who want the fees. We are biding our time, so what we had 9 months to bring in a striker, i believe we filled that issue when we got ba, and another to support him was a bonus, if they aren't available at the right price, or the right wage, then we are right to wait it out until january.

 

We are in a situation unlike we have been before. All wages are covered, all transfer fees are paid. If in january the right player comes up (and he must be the right player, not just a player for the sake of it) then we have that money there, ready to spend. Ashley takes nothing out of this club, at all. To say par dew has seen non of it, is a bit of a farce. He knows the situation, all fees don't just cover the players cost, it covers the whole package. We are on a very, very solid path and compared to this time last year, are in a better state in my opinion. We may have lost nolan, but he was ageing and immobile, to replace him with cabaye is fantastic. We have lost a trouble maker in barton who we could not truly rely on (see gervinho incident or pedersen). We have moved a proven goal scorer in up front and added pace and quality in marveux, santon and the signing of ben arfa. not to mention the potential with mehdi and obertan. Players who we now don't have to worry about any finances for, we have a clean slate to keep looking.

 

I personally can accept not buying a striker if we didn't feel the price was right, or the demands. To be blunt, the fact we have well and truly f***ed off the likes of the luque and owen farce, is fantastic, all players and deals that are done for the good of the club, and not for wage packets of people not connected to nufc are welcome. If you think for 1 second mufc deal in any other way, then you would be insane, and this, is the kind of standing in the game, at negotiating level we should be looking at.

Wow. You better hide mate.

This is the best time to do it, get all the anger out in one go

 

3 weeks until the next home game though. That's an age in football terms, which is why it will have been timed for now. Leaves any anger to disapate or be channeled into fighting amongst ourselves in the Gallowgate. Divide and Conquer - a classic example.

If this turns out to be a complete removal jobby, I don't see the anger dissipating at all! When people enter the ground and actually see it gone, there will be hell on.

Joey is, and always has been, about Joey. He's a talent on the pitch, and a headache off. If you don't want to play for the club, that's fine. Leave. But when you start to take potshots on twitter, you come across as a bitter, self-centered git. I hope Tiote gives him a proper tackle or two on game day.

 

 

Agreed. What he said is true, but doesn't make it alright. That tweet won't score him brownie points with me like, even if I agree with it. He's someone else's player, and should mind his own business. Clearly very bitter, and if I were Neil Warnock I'd lay down the law immediately. It's unprofessional and insulting to his new club.

if this guy scores 10 league goals this season I will ask the admins to give me an permanent IP ban. Thank you and good night.

Hope Neil's still about

If we finish above QPR this season, does that still make them more ambitious? Obviously it all depends on the end results, and targets/objectives that are achieved (or not). It IS relative. You can't say Spurs are unambitious having sold all these players for inflated fees, and only brought in Adebayor and Parker for peanuts in comparison.

People need to calm down with regards to Ruiz. Would you really want him for 10 mil? He's proved nothing, could just as well be the next Alfonso Alves.

 

or the next Luis Suarez. Speculate to accumulate. It's not like he was coming here without any pedigree whatsoever. I wouldn't have spent 10m on Crouch, but would have gladly spent more on Ruiz.

 

for every Suarez there's an Alves, Kezman and Samaras

RVN? Dirk Kuyt? Van Persie? Swings and roundabouts

 

Why would they leave some of the letters up if the whole thing was being taken off permanently? Sure hope this isn't true, as it would be tantamount to the biggest scandal yet under the Ashley regime. You can f*** with the manager and squad all you like, but you don't f*** with the one thing that is the reason we're all here in the first place.

 

Because they're huge heavy fuckers and they can't do them all at once

 

@ Yorkie Geordie: Agree 100%

Obviously. Just wondering if there was anything to read into the fact that they weren't taken down in order. Hoping that some fixtures on certain letters need changing or some such.

Anyone who isn't directing vile abuse towards Mike Ashley needs to sort there craic out.

 

and who isn't?

 

This is the point, just because we dont believe everything those players reckoned doesn't mean we dont hate Ashley, i certainly do.

 

It's not even that mate. I believe the players more than I'd believe the fans or journos, as they actually worked for the club, and knew more about the way it was run than anyone else did!! I just don't see the point in bringing it up. Instead of posting quotes from Keegan and Enrique on a message board, protest with your feet! You can sit here pining for King Kev and lapping up everything he says all you want. It won't change the fact that Ashley owns this club. I'd much rather be part of a concerted and organized effort to force the c*** out of the club.

 

Protesting wont work, the people who say protest are as thick as mince (joke not meant to offend) if they cant see that he doesn't care what you say about him.

 

Put aside the hate for him, he couldn't careless if you hate him anyway, comments about, only thing he cares about is money, boycott he'll understand that, a hit to his pocket, he has so much money that this club is just a drop in his empires pond, he isn't going to bankroll the club but he isn't going to let it go under either, if we vote with our feet he will only reduce player numbers/wages to cover it anyway.

 

If protesting was to work we would end up with maybe him gone but a team in league one. I'd rather have him in charge and finish mid-table than hound him out and be left in the lower leagues, shitty deal but i'm hoping if Pardew can do a good job with what he's got then someone might look at us and want to buy us from Ashley.

 

I wont do anything and i mean anything to damage the club i love, i hate the bloke but i love this club more, we cant get rid of him unless he decides he wants to go, thats horrible but a reality no matter what we do, to think otherwise imo is flogging a dead horse, i'm getting behind Pardew and the players, if they do well great, maybe a new owner may come in or the fat idiot might put more funds in, i doubt the latter so i'm hoping for option one.

 

But this club is my love, and i'm not Geordie, and i have only a inkling of what it means to a Geordie, but if the little i've gleamed from following this club my whole life, then it means more than most people could ever appreciate, i just wont damage it.

 

 

 

Top post apart from your opening line.

 

Two sides of the argument which I think everyone needs to appreciate. Instead of us all saying those who are happy to sit back and wait are thick, and the ones who are protesting are thick, can we all not at least show some understanding that different people want to show their anger different ways? We should all support one another regardless of our differences. Ultimately, we want rid of the t*** and should applaud anyone who is willing to try and make him f*** off. I agree that people need to actively protest, and they will be taken notice of, that's not to say I'll definitely be out there doing it.

 

Try telling about 1,500 L7 season ticket holders that Ashley doesn't listen to them. It's the only reason he moved us.

 

He moved you but not him, thats a point about protesting to him right there, if i knew protesting would work i would do it too, but it just wont work, he is amazing at being able to just ignore the stuff rightly thrown at him.

 

We all agree he has to go, he is a cancer in our club but it'll be on his terms not ours, i hate to think and say that but imo its the reality of it, i want him out, sure chant at him let him know we hate him and want him gone, but when the lads are out there then i cheer them and leave his boos for him when it doesn't affect the team.

 

He doesn't just ignore the abuse, he obviously listens hence moving us.

 

FWIW, I don't want to come across as being argumentative because I see where you're coming from, but if you save your supporting for in the ground (which I am 100% behind), and you don't protest at any point...just when do you give your boos for Ashley?

Agreed! The team need support for 90 minutes. Ashley can be told what we think of him before and after kickoff. Nowt wrong with that imo, as long as the team gets the full support it deserves.

Why would they leave some of the letters up if the whole thing was being taken off permanently? Sure hope this isn't true, as it would be tantamount to the biggest scandal yet under the Ashley regime. You can fuck with the manager and squad all you like, but you don't fuck with the one thing that is the reason we're all here in the first place.

Anyone who isn't directing vile abuse towards Mike Ashley needs to sort there craic out.

 

and who isn't?

 

This is the point, just because we dont believe everything those players reckoned doesn't mean we dont hate Ashley, i certainly do.

 

It's not even that mate. I believe the players more than I'd believe the fans or journos, as they actually worked for the club, and knew more about the way it was run than anyone else did!! I just don't see the point in bringing it up. Instead of posting quotes from Keegan and Enrique on a message board, protest with your feet! You can sit here pining for King Kev and lapping up everything he says all you want. It won't change the fact that Ashley owns this club. I'd much rather be part of a concerted and organized effort to force the c*** out of the club.

 

Protesting wont work, the people who say protest are as thick as mince (joke not meant to offend) if they cant see that he doesn't care what you say about him.

 

Put aside the hate for him, he couldn't careless if you hate him anyway, comments about, only thing he cares about is money, boycott he'll understand that, a hit to his pocket, he has so much money that this club is just a drop in his empires pond, he isn't going to bankroll the club but he isn't going to let it go under either, if we vote with our feet he will only reduce player numbers/wages to cover it anyway.

 

If protesting was to work we would end up with maybe him gone but a team in league one. I'd rather have him in charge and finish mid-table than hound him out and be left in the lower leagues, shitty deal but i'm hoping if Pardew can do a good job with what he's got then someone might look at us and want to buy us from Ashley.

 

I wont do anything and i mean anything to damage the club i love, i hate the bloke but i love this club more, we cant get rid of him unless he decides he wants to go, thats horrible but a reality no matter what we do, to think otherwise imo is flogging a dead horse, i'm getting behind Pardew and the players, if they do well great, maybe a new owner may come in or the fat idiot might put more funds in, i doubt the latter so i'm hoping for option one.

 

But this club is my love, and i'm not Geordie, and i have only a inkling of what it means to a Geordie, but if the little i've gleamed from following this club my whole life, then it means more than most people could ever appreciate, i just wont damage it.

 

 

 

Top post apart from your opening line.

 

Two sides of the argument which I think everyone needs to appreciate. Instead of us all saying those who are happy to sit back and wait are thick, and the ones who are protesting are thick, can we all not at least show some understanding that different people want to show their anger different ways? We should all support one another regardless of our differences. Ultimately, we want rid of the t*** and should applaud anyone who is willing to try and make him f*** off. I agree that people need to actively protest, and they will be taken notice of, that's not to say I'll definitely be out there doing it.

 

Try telling about 1,500 L7 season ticket holders that Ashley doesn't listen to them. It's the only reason he moved us.

Good post