Frazzle

Based on what? Based on common sense? You don't think Ranger or Carroll have the ability to put the ball in the back of the net from five yards? Carroll's already scored a couple of cracking headers which a lot of strikers wouldn't be able to pull off. I just don't think Lovenkrands is the answer to all our problems which some people seem to think, he's no better than the other strikers at the club, if at all better. I'd love him to do well I just don't think he's that good, hence the lack of interest from other clubs. Carroll and Ranger man one's never scored, the other averages 1 in 5 Both are young and have hardly played, it's no wonder they haven't got great scoring records. However, one is an England U19 international and the other an England U21 international, so they have potential if nothing else. Lovenkrands on the other hand has proven over his career he's not a great goalscorer (9 goals in 48 games for his last two clubs- 1 in 5 funnily enough). I don't even know why I'm bothering to reply like because you come out the same crap all the time: Colo and Barton are class (someone can tell me when Barton does something worthwhile in a black and white shirt) and Carroll and Ranger are crap. I hope Lovenkrands does score loads for us but everyone knows he's not a great goalscorer.

Based on what? Based on common sense? You don't think Ranger or Carroll have the ability to put the ball in the back of the net from five yards? Carroll's already scored a couple of cracking headers which a lot of strikers wouldn't be able to pull off. I just don't think Lovenkrands is the answer to all our problems which some people seem to think, he's no better than the other strikers at the club, if at all better. I'd love him to do well I just don't think he's that good, hence the lack of interest from other clubs.

It's not as bad as everyone makes out. Guardiola has wanted rid of Eto'o for ages (his attitude is crap, not in lack of effort, but he's too hotheaded), also Eto'o's contract would've been up at the end of this season so he's worth much less because of that, and also Ibrahimovic gives Barcelona more options in that they can play long balls and put balls in the box now. Not to mention the fact that Ibrahimovic and Eto'o have had similar scoring records for the last two or so seasons.

I don't know why we should play Lovenkrands ahead of Carroll or Ranger in a 4-4-2, I don't think he was ever that good in his first spell (yes, I know he was better than Owen, but that's not saying much) he scored three fairly simple goals that Carroll and Ranger could easily score. I know football isn't as simple as that and you obviously have to get into the position to score in the first place but I think Carroll and Ranger have done enough to earn their place in the team. And no, before anyone says, it's not two target men. You'll struggle to find a CB as fast as Ranger, so it's a fairly effective partnership.

'all these loans'? There's only been two and only one has said he wanted to play for us hasn't he?

4-4-2 and 4-4-3?

Never going to happen but... ----------------Harper------------------- ------------------------------------------- -Simpson---Taylor---Colo---Enrique- ------------------------------------------ -------------------Smith---------------- -------------Barton-----Guthrie------- ------------------------------------------ ---------Carroll-----------Ranger----- ---------------Loverkrands------------ Pretty much Keegan's 4-3-3. Simpson and Enrique always pushing forward. Loverkrands playing in Owen's position but hopefully getting beyond Ranger and Carroll as much as possible chasing flick ons (that's why I've put him ahead of them). I don't see why we can't play this in most games even if we are away.

Distin, Yakuba, Saha and Neill have all proven themselves in the PL (although Neill isn't great) hasn't even played for Everton yet. Cahill, Arteta and Jagielka were good buys though.

Rodwell and Gosling came through the youth ranks didn't they?

I've hardly seen any examples of players being kicked from pillar to post to be honest, despite what we were told. We were also told the division was going to be extremely tough as well though...

That's why we lost, playing a PL team!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_div_1/8261304.stm Highlights.

he was managing the cypriot equivilent of man utd though. the biggest,richest club in the country. done well in europe mind. (for balance) I always thought that APOEL were the biggest club in Cyprus. 20 league trophies compared to Anorthosis 13. But I get your point though. Yeah I checked wiki and apparently Famagusta are only the third most successful team in Cyprus with 13 titles, 2 of those down to Ketsbaia. They also hadn't won the league for 4 years when he took over, then won it in his first season. preston have more titles than us. So we aren't the 'Manchester United' of England the same way Famagusta aren't the 'Manchester United' of Cyprus.

he was managing the cypriot equivilent of man utd though. the biggest,richest club in the country. done well in europe mind. (for balance) I always thought that APOEL were the biggest club in Cyprus. 20 league trophies compared to Anorthosis 13. But I get your point though. Yeah I checked wiki and apparently Famagusta are only the third most successful team in Cyprus with 13 titles, 2 of those down to Ketsbaia. They also hadn't won the league for 4 years when he took over, then won it in his first season.

This is the rubbish I was on about. YES I REALISE MILNER IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE CHAMPIONSHIP, doesn't make him a great player though does it? People have used the same argument for loads of players. doesn't make him a great player, a good premiership player though. Yeah, and we sure could use him now!

This is the rubbish I was on about. YES I REALISE MILNER IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE CHAMPIONSHIP, doesn't make him a great player though does it? People have used the same argument for loads of players.

I can't reveal my source but.... CS/DM...

He won't be playing in Europe for the foreseeable future actually

You're the one posting stupid sarcastic posts. Milner was never great for us, 99% of fans would say that. Surprise, surprise though we could do with him in the Championship. People's expectations change when a team is relegated, not exactly that hard to comprehend is it?

I agree he'd be a good player in the Championship. David Edgar was never good enough for us was he? Look at him now, soaring in the PL while lowly old Newcastle playing the the fizzy pop league.

So, to summarise, you're writing off a young player, on the basis that he's being kept out of our team by another young player, who was also widely written off here, but has since gone on to be a full international and lauded by Fabio Capello. There's the irony. I also thought he did well for you for decent spells, too, but hey-ho, it doesn't really matter, I'm interested in what he does for us, and so far it must have been half decent for him to get a full call up. Lauded by Capello? It means nothing, as I've said. Capello isn't going to say 'Oh..yes..James Milner...pretty poor end product...not great technicially...' is he? Plenty of crap players have played for England: Michael Gray, Ricketts etc. etc. it doesn't stop them being **** does it? You said some player was going to be 'quality', if you mean quality as in Milner-quality (i.e. on the periphery of the England team and an average PL player who'll most likely never play CL football) , you may well be right Wait a second; plenty of crap players play for England, fair enough.... But if they play CL football, woah, they must be good? Am I missing something? I meant he'll never play for the top 4 Playing for Liverpool, Arsenal, Man U or Chelsea (soon Man City) generally means you're good, yeah. There's less crap players for those teams in recent years than England, especially in attacking positions. Not that I even said that players who play in the CL are automatically good. He could of course go to Debrecen or something and get in the CL, but that's obviously not what I meant.

So, to summarise, you're writing off a young player, on the basis that he's being kept out of our team by another young player, who was also widely written off here, but has since gone on to be a full international and lauded by Fabio Capello. There's the irony. I also thought he did well for you for decent spells, too, but hey-ho, it doesn't really matter, I'm interested in what he does for us, and so far it must have been half decent for him to get a full call up. Lauded by Capello? It means nothing, as I've said. Capello isn't going to say 'Oh..yes..James Milner...pretty poor end product...not great technicially...' is he? Plenty of crap players have played for England: Michael Gray, Ricketts etc. etc. it doesn't stop them being **** does it? You said some player was going to be 'quality', if you mean quality as in Milner-quality (i.e. on the periphery of the England team and an average PL player who'll most likely never play CL football) , you may well be right

The irony in having a sneer at a player when, actually, he is highly valued by Capello, and turns out he was so when you had him yourself the year before (and were largely slagging him off at the time). I think that shows the folly of your post suggesting that yes, a young player must be not up to much, what with him being kept out of our team by a player the manager of England rates very highly indeed, and who a lot of people here didnt think was good enough for you when you had him, either. a) Milner wasn't ever really good for us so that's why no one rated him highly. b) Capello is going to big up everyone player in his squad, don't ya think? c) Yes, if a player is kept out of a team by James Milner I don't really rate him very highly.

It's half the point of the forum at all tbh. You what now? Most people on this forum use it because they can't get to games on a regular basis. Most people on this forum were watching the matches last season, no matter where they were. This season they're not. This forum would be very quiet if only the 1,800 at the time were allowed to comment on the match. Difference between commenting and blaming defeat on a player/manager's tactics. People listened on the radio, it gives you an idea of what's going on. And when you hear 'foul by Butt' every two mins you start to sense it may be a case deja vu. Yeah, i'd agree it gives you a sense of whats going on but thats about it. If you then claim he is to blame for the defeat, i'd question your mental faculties. You just seem to be having a go at people for the sake of it; not everyone went to the game, we know! Get over yourself.

Where's the irony?