LucaAltieri

See the above post. As it's near impossible to separate the individual from the context of his team, role, competition they're playing in, etc I think it's risky business giving too much importance to these numbers when comparing them side by side. Statistical analysis has a role to play in football, but you've got to be comparing like for like otherwise the numbers are meaningless. A great example is comparing Demba Ba's pre-Cisse and post-Cisse scoring records with us. If you remove all context, it looks like Ba's form completely dropped. You need the context of knowing he was being played in a wide position to figure out what's really going on. Another example would be Jozy Altidore's scoring record in Holland. The numbers alone are meaningless without context. You can't compare Messi's all-Barca career to Ronaldo's career looking just at the numbers, which is why I'm focusing on their current talent, attitudes, performances. Actually, those stats were derived in context, the article had a whole segment trying to separate Messi's numbers from the impact Barca has had on his numbers. Not to be a jerk, but try reading it during halftime, I'd be curious what you think afterwards. I'll take a look in a few, see what they came up with. But it'll have to be some work of genius to separate out the fact they've played for completely different clubs at different levels, in different countries for their entire careers. Or possibly you could say they've played for different clubs at the same level in the same country? Allied to the numbers we have the evidence of our eyes. Ronaldo is a world class player but Messi is better. Probably. But I think it's closer than the stats indicate.

See the above post. As it's near impossible to separate the individual from the context of his team, role, competition they're playing in, etc I think it's risky business giving too much importance to these numbers when comparing them side by side. Statistical analysis has a role to play in football, but you've got to be comparing like for like otherwise the numbers are meaningless. A great example is comparing Demba Ba's pre-Cisse and post-Cisse scoring records with us. If you remove all context, it looks like Ba's form completely dropped. You need the context of knowing he was being played in a wide position to figure out what's really going on. Another example would be Jozy Altidore's scoring record in Holland. The numbers alone are meaningless without context. You can't compare Messi's all-Barca career to Ronaldo's career looking just at the numbers, which is why I'm focusing on their current talent, attitudes, performances. Actually, those stats were derived in context, the article had a whole segment trying to separate Messi's numbers from the impact Barca has had on his numbers. Not to be a jerk, but try reading it during halftime, I'd be curious what you think afterwards. I'll take a look in a few, see what they came up with. But it'll have to be some work of genius to separate out the fact they've played for completely different clubs at different levels, in different countries for their entire careers. Barcelona and Madrid are in the same country for the time being at least But they are different clubs. There's not a single like-for-like factor in their careers.

See the above post. As it's near impossible to separate the individual from the context of his team, role, competition they're playing in, etc I think it's risky business giving too much importance to these numbers when comparing them side by side. Statistical analysis has a role to play in football, but you've got to be comparing like for like otherwise the numbers are meaningless. A great example is comparing Demba Ba's pre-Cisse and post-Cisse scoring records with us. If you remove all context, it looks like Ba's form completely dropped. You need the context of knowing he was being played in a wide position to figure out what's really going on. Another example would be Jozy Altidore's scoring record in Holland. The numbers alone are meaningless without context. You can't compare Messi's all-Barca career to Ronaldo's career looking just at the numbers, which is why I'm focusing on their current talent, attitudes, performances. Actually, those stats were derived in context, the article had a whole segment trying to separate Messi's numbers from the impact Barca has had on his numbers. Not to be a jerk, but try reading it during halftime, I'd be curious what you think afterwards. I'll take a look in a few, see what they came up with. But it'll have to be some work of genius to separate out the fact they've played for completely different clubs at different levels, in different countries for their entire careers.

See the above post. As it's near impossible to separate the individual from the context of his team, role, competition they're playing in, etc I think it's risky business giving too much importance to these numbers when comparing them side by side. Statistical analysis has a role to play in football, but you've got to be comparing like for like otherwise the numbers are meaningless. A great example is comparing Demba Ba's pre-Cisse and post-Cisse scoring records with us. If you remove all context, it looks like Ba's form completely dropped. You need the context of knowing he was being played in a wide position to figure out what's really going on. Another example would be Jozy Altidore's scoring record in Holland. The numbers alone are meaningless without context. You can't compare Messi's all-Barca career to Ronaldo's career looking just at the numbers, which is why I'm focusing on their current talent, attitudes, performances.

I think you missed this post, Luca. Yeah, I somehow contrived to miss that. But without context the stats don't mean much. Messi has played his entire career at Barcelona. He trained with them as a kid so was primed for that team from a very young age. For much of his time being the focus of the team. Ronaldo has had a much slower rise to dominance including well over a year where he was hit and miss at Man United while he was still finding his feet in England and dealing with the idea he can be one of the best players in the world and working towards it. It wasn't something he was being groomed for since being a kid playing in Portugal. The numbers don't exist in a vacuum. Without digging into the source it's risky business deriving too much meaning from them.

Messi doesn't edge it on dribbling, he destroys him on dribbling along with most other things They have a completely different style of dribbling. You're not comparing like for like. Messi's style favors tighter spaces, he doesn't give much away with his body, but overall it's not complicated. The only remarkable factor is how quickly he does it. Those little inside-outside movements are things my kids can do. It's his speed, balance and his smarts that make him so good. Ronaldo, from a purely technical standpoint, has a greater range of movement, uses his body well to sell moves, but tends to take longer strides which means he's not as good when swamped by players. From a non-technical standpoint, just pure effectiveness, they're both devastating when they're on form. Messi is the more brutal, though. It's so much harder to get anywhere near him. Messi's dribbling is also prettier which is part of the reason why people think it's so much better than Ronaldo's 40,000 step overs. Yes but its not the style that I am basing the opinion that Messi is a better dribbler on, its the fact that he is statistically way more successful Yeah, I don't care about the stats in this context. If they're not playing the same role, in the same team, against the same opposition then the stats are meaningless. Messi is obviously the better dribbler, but I think Ronaldo is underrated in that regard. For me, the biggest difference between the two is still their temperament. Messi comes across as being in the habit of being the best player on the pitch. He just takes to it without giving it much thought. Ronaldo comes across as someone who feels the need to prove himself constantly, which leads to him trying too hard on occasion. Messi's cooler head sets him apart.

Messi doesn't edge it on dribbling, he destroys him on dribbling along with most other things They have a completely different style of dribbling. You're not comparing like for like. Messi's style favors tighter spaces, he doesn't give much away with his body, but overall it's not complicated. The only remarkable factor is how quickly he does it. Those little inside-outside movements are things my kids can do. It's his speed, balance and his smarts that make him so good. Ronaldo, from a purely technical standpoint, has a greater range of movement, uses his body well to sell moves, but tends to take longer strides which means he's not as good when swamped by players. From a non-technical standpoint, just pure effectiveness, they're both devastating when they're on form. Messi is the more brutal, though. It's so much harder to get anywhere near him. Messi's dribbling is also prettier which is part of the reason why people think it's so much better than Ronaldo's 40,000 step overs.

They're different players. Both great. Ronaldo is world class in his own right. He's just as good as Messi technically and has superior conditioning. Messi edges it on dribbling purely because the style of dribbling he does (short sharp touches) and has a slightly better mentality. Ronaldo has a great attitude, of course. He's as good as he is because he works so damn hard. He's earned his status. However Messi works jut as hard but also has a naturally cooler temperament. Players play well when they're relaxed and happy. You can see it when Ronaldo thinks it's easy and almost doesn't give a shit, he'll run rings around anyone. When he plays for Portugal he's going out onto the pitch with something to prove, he tenses up, tries to force it, and he ends up not being his best. Messi, as a cooler character, doesn't seem fazed by the spotlight and for that reason alone I'd maybe edge him above Ronaldo. But really, they're both #1 and #2 in the world... which is which comes down to who is playing better on the day.

Low would had been führerious if they'd let Algeria back into the game so late on.

Germany deserve it. A great work rate will set you free. They've kept their concentration, too.

I thought Germany would blitz this but all too often they're getting caught in no man's land.

surprised Klose hasn't come on yet Podolski would be a good solution for a final push.

I fear for Low. If Germany don't get through here I don't think heil get over it.

As an alternative, I'm pretty sure the Kurdish Premier League isn't officially part of FIFA yet, either.

That was a fantastic pass. Inch-perfect.

Utter drivel. Agreed. Ozil doesn't pass.

Gotze has been completely useless.

I don't know what happened with Algeria and Mexico. Both made the knockouts after barely even qualifying in the first place.

Players are too soft nowadays. It's a contact sport. You wouldn't have seen Terry Butcher go down from a challenge like that. When I'm reffing my kids' games I'd have just waved play on.

Don't see what Gotze has done to deserve a starting place either.

If you're into coaching and youth development then "Making the Ball Roll" is the book.

Balotelli scores.

At one point wasn't there a "daylight" rule for offsides?

A corner for all of Africa.