Hughesy

Even after a goal you shouldnt do that in the face of the oppositions manager, I dont care if its a derby or the World Cup final. Disrespectful. He can show passion but going in his face like that. Should be a no go. Look - in an ideal world, he shouldnt have done it. He has admitted as much already. But, as I have said, I think I have seen every/most managers react in a similar fashion at some point.

Well he looks stupid because we missed - I'd agree with that.

Leave it man. Its Pardew lovers against Ben Arfa. Crazy if you follow both threads. Explain my post then? I like Pardew and can see his flaws. I like Ben Arfa and can see his flaws. All along I have said I would play Ben Arfa, but can see reasons why Pardew may not always start. Not that strange a stance.

It seems a lot better reasoned than the support posts tbh. It really doesnt bud Couldn't agree more. Well you have proven over and over again that you are clueless. Really? Not sure about that.

It seems a lot better reasoned than the support posts tbh. It really doesnt bud Couldn't agree more. Well you have proven over and over again that you are clueless. What a load of nonsense. Load of nonesense? You believe his attitude at the penalty was ok? You got to be kiddng yourself if you think a manager should be doing that. Not condoning his behaviour - but I can't think of a single manager that I have not seen react like that in a match. Hardly the disgrace you are making it out to be.

It seems a lot better reasoned than the support posts tbh. It really doesnt bud Couldn't agree more.

It seems a lot better reasoned than the support posts tbh. Couldn't agree less.

What a load of nonsense.

He was brilliant today. The way he ghosts past people today is just amazing. I do hope Pardew gives him the rest of the season to build on this performance.

I think you'll find most newcastle fans think Milner is still very average and happy we sold him still and Parker is vastly overrated by the media. Which proves my point Milner is playing a significant role for a team that will probably win the league this season. Parker is playing for a side that will finish 3rd and is the national sides captain. Neither were good enough for us and would have had their taxi fares paid to get them out of Newcastle. Just because Parker is playing for a team in 3rd means f*** all. He captained West Ham to a relegation, it's not like Spurs have suddenly got better since he joined them. They've finished 3rd and 5th in the previous 2 season. If you don't think Parker is very good, then you definitely have problems judging the ability of footballers. If you think Parker is very good, then I'd say your an idiot. What is amazing is that you probably believe what you are saying. What is amazing is the amount of tosh you post. Like claiming Parker is a very good footballer? That is tosh? I think you might be in the minority there. Just because he has a good workrate doesn't make him a good footballer, after your comments in the HBA thread you seem to rate workrate ahead of actual football ability. Not quite what I have said. I have said that I can understand why Pardew might have concerns about HBA's workrate and how this might have a negative effect on the team. As I have pointed out, I would pick Ben Arfa. My additional point was that it is possible to have a player who is gifted and works hard, such as Beardsley. I would like to see and hope that HBA is encouraged to work hard. In some matches he has worked hard, and in other games his workrate has not been good enough. Workrate and flair are not mutually exclusive and both are attributes to be considered. And finally - no, Parker's workrate alone does not make him a good footballer. If you genuinely think that all Parker has is workrate, I genuinely despair.

I think you'll find most newcastle fans think Milner is still very average and happy we sold him still and Parker is vastly overrated by the media. Which proves my point Milner is playing a significant role for a team that will probably win the league this season. Parker is playing for a side that will finish 3rd and is the national sides captain. Neither were good enough for us and would have had their taxi fares paid to get them out of Newcastle. Just because Parker is playing for a team in 3rd means f*** all. He captained West Ham to a relegation, it's not like Spurs have suddenly got better since he joined them. They've finished 3rd and 5th in the previous 2 season. If you don't think Parker is very good, then you definitely have problems judging the ability of footballers. If you think Parker is very good, then I'd say your an idiot. What is amazing is that you probably believe what you are saying. What is amazing is the amount of tosh you post. Like claiming Parker is a very good footballer? That is tosh? I think you might be in the minority there.

I think you'll find most newcastle fans think Milner is still very average and happy we sold him still and Parker is vastly overrated by the media. Which proves my point Milner is playing a significant role for a team that will probably win the league this season. Parker is playing for a side that will finish 3rd and is the national sides captain. Neither were good enough for us and would have had their taxi fares paid to get them out of Newcastle. Just because Parker is playing for a team in 3rd means f*** all. He captained West Ham to a relegation, it's not like Spurs have suddenly got better since he joined them. They've finished 3rd and 5th in the previous 2 season. If you don't think Parker is very good, then you definitely have problems judging the ability of footballers. If you think Parker is very good, then I'd say your an idiot. What is amazing is that you probably believe what you are saying.

I think you'll find most newcastle fans think Milner is still very average and happy we sold him still and Parker is vastly overrated by the media. Which proves my point Milner is playing a significant role for a team that will probably win the league this season. Parker is playing for a side that will finish 3rd and is the national sides captain. Neither were good enough for us and would have had their taxi fares paid to get them out of Newcastle. Just because Parker is playing for a team in 3rd means f*** all. He captained West Ham to a relegation, it's not like Spurs have suddenly got better since he joined them. They've finished 3rd and 5th in the previous 2 season. If you don't think Parker is very good, then you definitely have problems judging the ability of footballers.

I think we are simply not playing very well at the moment and, as has been pointed out, we play in a disjointed fashion. In no way do I believe that Pardew's instructions to the players are to whack it long all the time (which we don't anyway, but again a bandwagon has rolled into town..) but that the speculative balls stem from a lack of confidence and lack of belief.

Care to point to some examples where he hasn't worked hard for the team? Wasn't really the point - more pointing out that it is perfectly acceptable to expect talent and industry. The point is that it's perhaps a bit of a myth that HBA is lazy. Also you don't get many players with the flair of Beardsley that will chase down every ball like a total lunatic. For example Bergkamp was clearly a pretty impeccable professional but you could be forgiven for thinking he was a bit aloof at times. Suppose I'm saying it's not black and white, just because he doesn't work as hard as Beardsley doesn't mean he doesn't put the work in that you'd expect of a flair player. I agree that stereotypical flair player doesn't chase down every ball. But chasing down every ball is something that can be taught/encouraged without a marked downturn in that flair player's effectiveness. But it is difficult to teach a hard worker to become more talented. FWIW - I want Ben Arfa to play.

Care to point to some examples where he hasn't worked hard for the team? Wasn't really the point - more pointing out that it is perfectly acceptable to expect talent and industry.

What I don't quite understand is why people seem to think you can only have talent or hard work. Beardsley combined both and Ben arfa isn't fit to lace his boots. There is no reason why Ben arfa should be exempted from hard work because he is talented. He should be encouraged (or told) to work for the team and get on with it.

Pards opening himself up to be shot down by talking about MON's 5 man midfield tactics there. So you know what they're going to do then there's not much excuse if we don't cope with it really is there? Might be better sticking to discussing your own team methinks. That's more than a little bit simplistic. Just because you know how a team is going to line up doesn't stop the fact that: a) tactics may not work. For example, just because they line up with a five man midfield, does that mean we should match their men in midfield? Obviously playing 4-4-2 gives you certain advantages over 4-5-1 in certain situations (4-5-1 does over 4-4-2) so Pardew might decide to stick to the system we have been using all season and see if Sunderland want to worry about our formation. b) our players underperforming or their players overperforming.

He doesn't really say anything wrong, but if there's a bandwagon to be leapt on..

Where was this? Dave - you do this every time. You know as well as everyone else that there a number of posters who have suggested that Pardew should be replaced at the end of the season or be 'upgraded' or only given a bit longer to ptove himself. I don't think it is a massive leap for to generalise this as 'wanting Pardew replaced'. It is riddiculously pedantic to keep poiinting out that not everyone is saying sack Pardew now.

It is not a bad indicator to be fair. I think usually the best indicator... Certainly better than some subjective judgement about where a team 'should' be finishing, based on a fairly woolly assessment of the merits of the players of every squad in the league.

If we are constantly revising expectations - at what point would Pardew ever get praise for what he has achieved? I don't quite follow how preseason expectations were, for the sake of argument, 8th-11th, we are currently in 6th (3 points off 4th) and now people are suggesting that actually we have a squad (which we clearly don't) that should be in 6th by virtue of its quality and that therefore Pardew is, at best, matching expectations. It doesn't make sense! At what point is any of the success attributed to Pardew and as part of a wider point, at what time is any success attributed to any manager? Or by virtue of its current league position, is each team achieving what it should be because expectations have been revised? In summary, what I am trying to say is that it seems as if people have had an initial opinion, seen that we are now doing better than that original opinion, and decided that that is definitve proof that actually our squad is better than originally predicted and we are merely at par. And that this improvement is solely down to the innate ability of the players in the squad and has been achieved in spite of our manager?

I think we do. I would make 2 caveats in stating this. First I don't think that Everton and Villa are that far behind on a man for man analysis of their squads and have underachieved this season. Second, as I have pointed out numerous times now, I think there is a very sizeable gap between us in a notional 7th place and Liverpool/Arsenal in 6th. I know it is quite fashionable on here to knock Liverpool, but it is clear they have a good deal more strength in depth than we do. Same goes for Arsenal.

I want to know where all these people who are now saying 6th is a bare minimum for our league position were at the beginning of the season. Because I don't remember there being many ppl, if any, who said that. And that was with the squad as it now is, bar Cisse. Expectations have shot through the roof as a result of our start. We do not have s squad close to the top 6. So to be where we are is a great achievement.

I'm all for being positive, but do people genuinely believe that our SQUAD is even close to the strength of Man City, Man Utd, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and Liverpool? Becuase it really really isn't.