Hughesy

Would like to see Ben Arfa on right against Gibbs. Reckon he would get more joy out of Gibbs than Sagna.

Definitely should always be looking to improve, but surely people recognise that we are realistically a £20-30 million worth of investment (and not selling any key players) away from even securing a top 6 slot on a regular basis, let the huge sums it would take to push on beyond that. As Roger Kint pointed out I cannot see there being much chance that Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool will not invest further in the summer to add to their already stronger squads. And whether Ashley invests or not, clearly is not down to Pardew.

What would people expect from Pardew next season if we get 6th place this season?

The impression I got from the match was that Pardew's reactions were in fact in response to the actions of O'Neill and his sorry crew. Bit of a case of 'he started it first', but not sure why Pards is copping the flak in the media for this one.

Some sense spoken.

Not really sure what age has to do with anything. Complete non-point. And one of the most pretentious and patronising posts I have ever read.

Yes - but no-one can ever know exactly how much any one manager uses Prozone. It's just a lazy label that people like to throw about.

Can I just clear one thing up? Lots of top managers (in fact, I would hazard a guess that all top managers) use Prozone. This is not something exclusive to Pardew and Allardyce.

When you see the stills like that, it just rams home how important the consistency is if Dean is going to make the decision he did with Williamson. Shocking that ESPN, BBC and the newspapers haven't picked up on this, yet will bang on about the great decision re Williamson. Appalling really.

For 30 or so minutes yesterday where it went like this I'd beg to disagree: Krul - hoof - mackem header wins ball, they attack we clear our lines - hoof. Repeat repeat repeat. We were f***ing awful yesterday and its more depressing given the quality of our players, players with the attributes to play really good football. We played well in the second half. The first half and the last few games have not been representative of the way we have played this season. It's getting there though. We've been hitting the long ball and setting up more and more negatively every week since around the middle of December. With Man Utd the obvious and glaring exception, our performances since the Chelsea game have been dismal. It's to our credit that we've still managed to pick up points in that period but some of the winning performances have been incredibly poor. The excuse a few weeks ago was the absence of the central midfield but nothing has changed, in fact I'd say it's gotten worse. We seldom try to pass the ball through midfield or have the wide players make any forward runs into space. It's become all about protecting the back four and we've got big problems if they really need protecting when 2-0 up at home to Wolves. I would agree that performances have gradually got worse since the Chelsea game. I genuinely think that Pardew was a bit rattled by that defeat and the loss of Saylor has not helped. Genuinely think we will see a better brand of football for the rest of this season. But we shall see. I realise many will not share my sentiments.

For 30 or so minutes yesterday where it went like this I'd beg to disagree: Krul - hoof - mackem header wins ball, they attack we clear our lines - hoof. Repeat repeat repeat. We were f***ing awful yesterday and its more depressing given the quality of our players, players with the attributes to play really good football. We played well in the second half. The first half and the last few games have not been representative of the way we have played this season.

That's one of the key points. People keep assuming that by playing a more defensive system Pardew has somehow cost us points. How do we not know that Pardew's caution has not won points during this season? You make a good point, however I'd add that good management is about knowing when to adopt certain strategies, not deciding on one and sticking to it stubbornly whether it works or not. We've had our fair share of managers who've done that here recently so a lot of people are wise to the pit falls, good league position or not. At home to Wolves, Swansea, QPR for example, you play your best attacking players and have a go. So whilst I'd say Pardew's defensive approach has certainly won us points this season, the points away at QPR, Man U and Blackburn particularly, where the defensively minded drilled capabilities of our team helped us grind out results, i think he's cost us just as many points if not more by being too cautious. Totally agree with you. Was just trying present the other side of the coin.

That's one of the key points. People keep assuming that by playing a more defensive system Pardew has somehow cost us points. How do we not know that Pardew's caution has not won points during this season?

This is one of my main gripes with the SJP crowd like, there was people shouting for Krul to shoot yesterday from the half way line ffs One of my main gripes with the SJP crowd is the people who take "shoooooooooot" seriously. Yeah - I don't think it actually made Krul think 'they've got a point there, might have a pop from here'.

This exactly - I find it endlessly fascinating that one player can look so brilliant one minute and so awful the next. It's just so frustrating that his career couldn't have worked out better as he really does have a lot of the attributes required to have been a very good player.

In an ideal world, Tiote shouldn't have to react the way he has done to ensure Sessegnon was sent off. But let's remember that Sessegnon was the guy who hit Tiote and it was undeniably a red card offence. If Tiote feels he has to exaggerate the contact to ensure that Sessegnon is sent off, I can't see that there is much wrong with that. It is only a completely different level to a) the actual striking by Sessegnon/tackle by Cattermole and b) feigning injury when no contact has actually been made.

Just One will do. That hurts...

Was unaware that each and every post had to make a stunning contribution.

We clearly had improved massively defensively over last season though. Before Saylors injury only Spurs & Manchester city managed to score more than one goal against us in 13 games, thats a ridiculous record. They both needed penalties to achieve that. Only chelsea managed it with 2 goals in the last minute after we lost Colo on 25 mins & Saylor at the end also. Pardew earns no faith achieving that? Because thats a crazy record with our defence. Giving a chance to youngsters like Vuckic, Abeid etc isnt an improvement in terms of ideas? Or trying Jonas in the middle which actually worked nicely for a period wasnt a sign hes willing to think outside the box? Hes done more for our setup defensively than in terms of creating flowing football sure, but as i say look at the defense hes working with. If he believes we'll score regardless as we had been, does it not make sense to sway parts of the side toward covering your weakest link? A balanced side is more stable than one which relies on one or the other isnt it? There'll be some reason why those positives don't count. Just give it a few mins..

I don't think anybody does disregard our league position, I just think some people see past it while still recognising it as being the most important measurement of where we are. Fair enough, however I don't think that everyone is recognising it as the most important measurement of where we are. Or there wouldn't be some many people suggesting he is nothing more than average manager who is tactically and/or that we should look to upgrade our manager in the near future. Please note I am paraphrasing general sentiments there from a wide range of people.. Not many people are calling for Pardew to be sacked, but people are rightly questioning his tactics and team selections. Also people are questioning the same stuff which West Ham and Southampton fans had about him so there is a pattern emerging here. For the record, we won't get a better manager while the fat b****** still owns this club or he offers a ridiculous wage to a manager but I'm having big doubts about his man-management and his hoofball tactics. I think he makes mistakes in his tactics and team selection - but then to a certain degree, all managers do. I do however think he gets more right than he gets wrong. In addition, I wouldn't argue with that many of his decisions. Not picking Ben Arfa more regularly is one where I think he has got it wrong (although I can see why he has made the decisions he has on occasions). Resorting to a direct style of play in the last 2 months has been a mistake, but we weren't playing like that earlier in the season. I genuinely don't think it is a tactic per se, but more a result of the deficiencies in our personnel (Simpson, Williamson etc), the arrival of the Africa Nations Cup and injuries and suspensions suffered (most importantly Cabaye and Saylor). However, he has got a lot right.

I don't think anybody does disregard our league position, I just think some people see past it while still recognising it as being the most important measurement of where we are. Fair enough, however I don't think that everyone is recognising it as the most important measurement of where we are. Or there wouldn't be some many people suggesting he is nothing more than average manager who is tactically and/or that we should look to upgrade our manager in the near future. Please note I am paraphrasing general sentiments there from a wide range of people..

Love the way that O'Neill dragged the 4th official in front of him to protect him from the raging Pards after our penalty was given..!

You should have just done what Jon did when he couldn't back up something he said and just said that it was me. Sorry - it was you..! To be honest, I am more than happy to have a reasoned discussion on Pardew's strengths and weaknesses, as I recognise that he has both. But I do feel many of the good things Pardew has done are overlooked, regarded as being unattributable to him or expected. In addition, I think it is too simplistic to overlook the position we are actually in. We are in 6th and could well finish there. For people to disregard this or claim it is a weak argument just doesn't wash with me. But I do agree that league position is not the only indicator to be reviewed (although I find it incredibly hard to not regard it as the most important indicator of success).

Go on then, where's these posts where people say league position doesn't matter or it's the way we play that counts. I am not sure I have the time or inclination to go through all the posts to find specific examples, but those are certainly sentiments that have been expressed by many.