Hughesy

Well there probably isn't something as 100% certain goal. What I am trying to say is that it is conceivable that there are chances that are more likely to be converted than a penalty. Surely it is unfair that a defender is able to exploit this situation by preventing an attacker from scoring and the attacking team having to then rely on converting a harder chance ie a penalty? Haven't look in any detail but it seems as if roughly 70-80% of penalties are scored. That isn't that high a percentage. There needs to be some sort of punishment to prevent this from occurring. Hence the sending off.

You've misunderstood this again, in exactly the same way as it was last discussed. The point is about penalties and red cards being too harsh together and that the penalty should be punishment enough. But why is a penalty punishment enough? What if a player has an open goal from a yard out and the defender fouls him and thus prevents an absolute 100% certain goal? The chances of scoring from a penalty are far lower so the defender would benefit from this action. That is why a sending off is needed.

Fair enough.

Dyer was massively overrated. I think this discussion has been had on numerous occasions to be honest, but he was technically poor.

Did you know at the time that Moyes was as good as he has proved to be or are you talking with the benefit of hindsight? I don't think many, if any, picked Moyes out to be a potential star during the lean years. Moyes (and Ferguson who is the other one usually rolled out to support this specious argument) had a record of success at their previous clubs which is why they were given the job. What in Pardew's record suggests that he will turn this around and bring this club success? Moyes' record at Preston is very similar to what Pardew achieved with Reading and to a lesser extent West Ham.

Did you know at the time that Moyes was as good as he has proved to be or are you talking with the benefit of hindsight? I don't think many, if any, picked Moyes out to be a potential star during the lean years.

Splitting hairs here, but I don't think they were bottom. How many of the players left after they got relegated out of interest? Looks like they lost some pretty key players from a quick wiki search.

Was going to say that - hadn't Dowie and Les Reed pretty much sealed the relegation?

Would love him back in any capacity to be honest. A perfect example of someone who we should bring in as an attacking coach.

Everything internally at the football club - currently anyway - revolves around finishing 8th as "par" How much do you know about NUFC/Pardew that you aren't able to divulge on this forum? How can he answer that? I didn't expect him to tell us! I was just wondering if he knew more than he has stated before as we get dripfeed the odd bit of new information.

Spot on and basically what I was trying to say earlier but not quite so eloquently. Although I do agree with Dave's explanation.

A 'particular style of play' to me refers more how easily and well players of lesser ability can slot into the team and do more than simply make up the numbers. Lots of teams can do this effectively, by which I mean they don't instantly turn to the turgid 'kick the ball as far as possible from our goal', ultra-negative play we've seen so regularly this season and even parts of last. Pardew's philosophy to date seems to be that if all of our best players aren't available then we simply can't do the same things, and I don't buy that. Some have excused it by saying we can't play good football with Williamson and Simpson in the side, but we managed it perfectly well during those six wins in a row last season in which they both played every minute. Sorry, Simpson was taken off with 8mins left against Stoke at 3-0. As I've said however, the ludicrous 11 purples thing doesn't help him at all. Ok - that makes far more sense to me than theidea that each team needs to have a particular style akin to a Brendan Rodgers team.

If we finish the season in decent form I don't think many will be calling for him to be sacked tbf. I think there's a small group that dislike him regardless, but nowhere near the majority. What has he ever done in his past career that gives people confidence that he is going to be a top manager with the same club over a period of more than 2 years ? Why does anyone think it is going to be different here..? Just as well Ipswich gave Robson a chance after his previous track record was to get Fulham relegated and then gave him time after a few rubbish seasons. Managers can improve. Pardew may not, but it is possible that he might come back a better manager for it. Have you looked at Robson's career record ? He was 35 when he became manager at Fulham and 36 when he joined Ipswich.....by the time he was Pardew's age he had achieved far more than being fired from 4 clubs - if Pardew hasn't achieved anything as a manager now, he isn't going to, or at least, the odds against it are very high. Look at Ferguson's record as a manager by the time he reached Pardew's age - do you think Man U would have appointed Pardew as their manager when he was the same age as Ferguson ?? There are plenty of managers I could quote who have made it by the time they are Pardew's age - he is at NUFC because he is cheap to employ and suits the board because of it. Any manager worth their salt wants a degree of control over signings and club policy - Ashley and Llambias are never going to allow that. My point was that the same could have been said of Robson at a particular point of his career, but obviously he went on to be a great manager. I dare say that if Ipswich had decided that finishing 19th in Robson's second season wasn't acceptable and sacked him, his managerial career might have been a very very different one. I am not suggesting that Pardew will be anywhere near as good as Robson, but maybe Pardew does need to be given another season in charge of a club to see if he can reverse the current trend. Writing him off as someone who can't produce beyond 1-2 seasons is lazy and ignores all context. I am sure there are plenty of managers you can mention who have 'made it' by 51 - I am sure there are a damn sight more managers you could list who haven't. Are you suggesting that we should only appoint managers who have now 'made it'? Perhaps we should give Jose a ring if that is now the criteria.

Just out of interest - how many clubs have a particular style of play/philosophy? I agree that Pardew's lack of work on attacking play and tactical awareness is being shown up at the moment, but I do feel that the whole philosophy is a bit woolly and possibly being overplayed. I fully expect to be torn apart for this by the way.

Everything internally at the football club - currently anyway - revolves around finishing 8th as "par" How much do you know about NUFC/Pardew that you aren't able to divulge on this forum?

If we finish the season in decent form I don't think many will be calling for him to be sacked tbf. I think there's a small group that dislike him regardless, but nowhere near the majority. What has he ever done in his past career that gives people confidence that he is going to be a top manager with the same club over a period of more than 2 years ? Why does anyone think it is going to be different here..? Just as well Ipswich gave Robson a chance after his previous track record was to get Fulham relegated and then gave him time after a few rubbish seasons. Managers can improve. Pardew may not, but it is possible that he might come back a better manager for it.

You could be describing Sammy there. I maintain that Sammy would have nearly as many caps for NI as Ferguson does if he was eligible. You'd think he'd be able to displace Will Grigg of Walsall or Billy McKay of Inverness.

While I agree with the idea that Ferguson is further on in his development than Ameobi - his international caps have been for Northern Ireland, currently the 96th best team in the world and he has 6 caps. I dare say that if Ameobi was from Northern Ireland he might have the squad a few times.

Got talent, but get him out on loan as soon as possible to a Championship club.

Interested in M'Vila apparently: Ben Lyttleton ‏@benlyt L'Equipe: #QPR to table €8m bid for Yann #M'Vila, but Rennes want more. #NUFC also interested & want Florian Thauvin, 19, Bastia fwd

He was a solitary number 9 who offered no threat towards the Everton goal all game. His only use is bringing down long balls and shielding it from defenders high up the pitch, a trait that is completely useless when our other striker is on the wing. Not quite sure what you were expecting from him to be honest.. I am not Shola's biggest fan and I certainly think that Pardew made a huge error in starting him, but I thought he played ok. He held the ball up well and brought other players into the game. He created that chance for himself when he brought the ball down and flicked the ball just wide of the post. Our goal was created directly as a result of his physical presence and he defended well from Everton's set plays. Yeah, he wasn't brilliant (he never is), but his performance was nowhere near as bad as people are making out.

Shola didn't actually play half as badly as people on here make out.

I thought it was an odd decision by Krul to take that step to his left before the ball was hit as you can tell what Baines is going to do from his body position during his run up. There was no way he got have approached the ball in that fashion and then curled one over the wall to Krul's left. I think that was an error from Krul to be honest.

Static on your arse would be a very odd experience.