Toonpack

As I remember, Sir John Hall bought his shares for £8 million. He put no other money into the club until Keegan was manager & threatened to quit unless we bought a player. Sir John Hall then borrowed £1 million from his wife to fund the transfer. So £9 million into the club, only £1 million of which went towards the actual running of the club in any way. In the meantime, he floated the club to offload a few shares and repay debts and fund the rebuilding of the stadium (rebuilt by Cameron Hall Developments, so we paid him there too) and after paying dividends for a few years even whilst making huge losses, they lastly sold their shares to Ashley and cashed in yet again. The Halls helped the club immensely but they also made out like bandits from their tenure. It wasn't quite like that, it was a leveraged buyout just like Man U (but much smaller) with a loan from Cameron Hall which was repayable (with interest) by the club. Not a penny of his own personal cash went into it.

Like Shepherd, Hall never put even a penny of his own money in, between them they took about £50mill out though. They bought the club with funding from Cameron Hall Ltd, and charged interest an all.

It's not in the slightest the same thing, never mind pragmatically. If he'd put in £100 Mill and then took a £10 Million dividend and left the liability as it was he's creaming off the top. If he'd put in the same £100 Mill and took £10 Mill via reducing the liability accordingly, he's not creaming off the top. In both cases he'd "pocket" the £10 Mill but for what it means to the club's financial position it's nowhere near the same. I already said that you absolute b******! Only joking. I noticed soon as I posted, but didn't want to waste my typing

It's not in the slightest the same thing, never mind pragmatically. If he'd put in £100 Mill and then took a £10 Million dividend and left the liability as it was he's creaming off the top. If he'd put in the same £100 Mill and took £10 Mill via reducing the liability accordingly, he's not creaming off the top. In both cases he'd "pocket" the £10 Mill but for what it means to the club's financial position it's nowhere near the same.

Serviceable for what? League 1? Not the premiership. Clueless as ever. He has enough to make an impact at times, should never be a starter but games like the mackems, QPR at home where he turned 1 point into 3 when we didnt look like scoring etc shows he can do something as a player in the PL however limited he is. Plus he clearly has a good influence around the dressing room so why not keep him? Clueless, look who's talking. I'm happy to have him around if he's 4th or 5th choice as I've said earlier, the way ToonPack is talking he wants him as backup directly for Cisse. A 2nd choice striker for us should have a better record than 6 goals in last 2 seasons. It puts extra pressure on Cisse to score and scoring goals has been a problem for us last few seasons imo, not enough people contributing. Please quote where I said that, or is it a lie, or just your incomprehension of the written word ? You've said he's better than Graham. Graham would be 2nd choice striker immediately if he came here. Please quote where I said Shola should be our ongoing and primary back up to Cisse.

If we kept Shola (as depth) and bought a striker who can actually make an impact on games it'd be even better.

Provide a link to that "fact" please ?

Serviceable for what? League 1? Not the premiership. Clueless as ever. He has enough to make an impact at times, should never be a starter but games like the mackems, QPR at home where he turned 1 point into 3 when we didnt look like scoring etc shows he can do something as a player in the PL however limited he is. Plus he clearly has a good influence around the dressing room so why not keep him? Clueless, look who's talking. I'm happy to have him around if he's 4th or 5th choice as I've said earlier, the way ToonPack is talking he wants him as backup directly for Cisse. A 2nd choice striker for us should have a better record than 6 goals in last 2 seasons. It puts extra pressure on Cisse to score and scoring goals has been a problem for us last few seasons imo, not enough people contributing. Please quote where I said that, or is it a lie, or just your incomprehension of the written word ?

Serviceable for what? League 1? Not the premiership. Of course he's servicable, not as a starter but he provides perfectly decent depth and his record proves it. He's happy to be "depth" (which shouldn't be underestimated) is evidently a good influence in the dressing room. Seriously what's not to like. It's not like they'll be getting shot of Cisse because of this and Shola is to be our featured striker FFS I'd rather have Shola than £5 Million man Danny Graham any day of any week. Danny Graham is a better footballer than Ameobi. Never in a million years, Shola has a core of great skill/technique and has been fucked by a dodgy hip, never reached his full potential sadly, but eminently serviceable. How many European goals has Mr Graham got

Serviceable for what? League 1? Not the premiership. Of course he's servicable, not as a starter but he provides perfectly decent depth and his record proves it. He's happy to be "depth" (which shouldn't be underestimated) is evidently a good influence in the dressing room. Seriously what's not to like. It's not like they'll be getting shot of Cisse because of this and Shola is to be our featured striker FFS I'd rather have Shola than £5 Million man Danny Graham any day of any week.

Whinge about lack of depth and whinge about a perfectly serviceable depth player being retained, bizarre IMO

I think all the evidence shows that is the case, top dollar or piss off appears to be the motto.

The game has got away from ref's it's just too quick. Any bad injury the ref should have the option to ask to see it, no disruption to the game whilst a players getting treated, all goals should also be reviewed which is another natural break in the game. It's just not physically possible for them to keep up with play. More and more games (two yesterday) are gettiing results changed due to wrong decisions and it's stuff that's not even close most of the time. This is the top end of the game we're talking about, the technology is there, it'd take seconds, it needs to change, it's getting beyond "ah well, what goes around comes around and it evens out over a season" there are real games results being changed wrongly.

There's a really simple answer, any player who injures another in a bad challenge should be banned for as long as the injured player is out.

thank you for the rose, but you seem to be very ugly for me, and i'm straight... I like the cut of this Filho da Puta's jib

He's been poor this season, compared to last, and certainly no better than Elliot has been, Elliot deserves to retain his place based on performance.

Good news, but he shouldn't walk straight back in IMO, Elliot's done nowt wrong, quite the opposite really.

I'll take this being as good as it get's for the next several years if results stay the same, thank you very much. We play some really good stuff at times, way better than some of the real shit I've been privileged to watch over the years. We beat an exceptionally good side over two games, I really don't get the negativity at all.

May 69 Liverpool 1-1 Wyn Davies

We've been getting key players back plus what initially appear to be cracking additions, they're playing with their full deck with no big injuries to speak of, sadly I still think they already have enough cushion to scrape through though.

T'is true, that said their goal difference is currently worth another point, if they get mullered off someone though, all bets are off. Think they'll be OK though.

Whilst stressfull/annoying (to the watchers) I reckon the belief that gives to players is likely signficant. Every cloud and all that.

It'll be a draw, we're due one

Who can you guarantee would do that for us ?? We've tried the manager switcheroo numerous times over the years, it's not worked yet, mind you we were top 5 last season. We were and I've given credit for that, it would be ultimately hypocritical to not. But do you honestly feel Pardew will deliver for this club? Our squad man for man is as good as any bar Manu/City/Spurs/Chelsea. I don't have a suggestion for a replacement, but that doesn't negate the points. I don't know tbh, but I absolutely do know, (outside of vast amonts of cash and maybe a Mourinho) that our managerial merry go round (since KK's first spell) hasn't worked, even our, decidedly average, "highs" over the years since were never quite as the high as the highs before. I also know, if the significant groundswell on this board to get rid, had governed Man U and Everton, Ferguson and Moyes would have been fired in their third seasons in charge (finishing 13th and 17th respectively). I am quite prepared to give the bloke time, if next season starts like this one, it's a different ball game, but the signs since he actually had depth to utilise are fine by me. A new manager guarantees nothing, just look down the road at Marty's party. There's a hell of a lot more right than wrong just now IMO. Fair enough mate, well made points. I agree it hasn't worked for us in the past, but that doesn't mean a new manager wouldn't deliver better results but I take your point. I do feel, and have done for a while that the overall coaching set up is stale, I'd like to see the addition of coaching staff at least, if we are to stick with the manager I actually think that the way the new players have slotted in, is under recognised as a "plus mark" for the coaching staff. Our biggest problem is the fact that (in football terms) our "turnaround" under KK (first time) was metaphorically in the blink of an eye, that lightning is unlikely to strike twice. I am quite happy to let a longer game play out to the extent that even if we'd gone down (which I don't think we will now) I'd have kept him for another year. The swaperoo has never worked, I'm quite happy to sit back chillax and wait and see what happens with a bit of stability. May work, may not, but then again nothing much has worked in my forty odd years of watching this lot, but hanging in there and being patient is actually trying something new, unheard of even.

Who can you guarantee would do that for us ?? We've tried the manager switcheroo numerous times over the years, it's not worked yet, mind you we were top 5 last season. We were and I've given credit for that, it would be ultimately hypocritical to not. But do you honestly feel Pardew will deliver for this club? Our squad man for man is as good as any bar Manu/City/Spurs/Chelsea. I don't have a suggestion for a replacement, but that doesn't negate the points. I don't know tbh, but I absolutely do know, (outside of vast amonts of cash and maybe a Mourinho) that our managerial merry go round (since KK's first spell) hasn't worked, even our, decidedly average, "highs" over the years since were never quite as high as the highs before. I also know, if the significant groundswell on this board to get rid, had governed Man U and Everton, Ferguson and Moyes would have been fired in their third seasons in charge (finishing 13th and 17th respectively). I am quite prepared to give the bloke time, if next season starts like this one, it's a different ball game, but the signs since he actually had depth to utilise are fine by me. A new manager guarantees nothing, just look down the road at Marty's party. There's a hell of a lot more right than wrong just now IMO. Edit: BTW I've been watching this club since the mid 60's and no fucker has truly "delivered" since 1969.