Deuce

Good point. You really should be blaming Mike for my opinions.

THANKS FLIP.

Puma just trolling us now.

I think the point that I was trying to make, with all the grace of a fat ballerina, is that it takes more than genetic traits to make a class footballer. It's not that American soccer players aren't the best athletes in the country, it's that we're still not a country that values technical proficiency or accepting losses on the pitch at the youth levels. And very few families will send their sons to elite football academies (we still don't have the youth development infrastructure that Europe does.) But it's changing, thankfully. I agree that Messi was blessed with certain physical and perhaps mental traits that helped him rise above his peers. But I don't believe he woke up one day with the latent ability to play the game. He wouldn't be anyone special if he hadn't employed his traits in a certain way. My apologies for the confusing stream of posts, I was even confusing myself for a while there.

Fine. I will concede this point. People have unique genetic characteristics, some of which may be beneficial to sport. I don't believe that genetic traits are more important to developing top athletes than repetition, acquired knowledge, or learning environment, however.

Come on, Sem, finish your magnum opus post telling me how wrong I am.

Acquired knowledge, learning environment, how you were raised, etc. So basically a long succession of coincedences, lucky breaks, dedication and good training? Nothing at all to do with any abilities he was born with? If you take the child of doctors and switch him with the child of backwoods hillbillies, the one growing-up with the bumpkins ain't gonna be the sharpest tool in the shed. That's tenuous at best. This, along with the other assertions in your original post, is an entirely bizarre belief. We all have 'em.

Agree to disagree then.

Acquired knowledge, learning environment, how you were raised, etc. So basically a long succession of coincedences, lucky breaks, dedication and good training? Nothing at all to do with any abilities he was born with? If you take the child of doctors and switch him with the child of backwoods hillbillies, the one growing-up with the bumpkins ain't gonna be the sharpest tool in the shed.

Acquired knowledge, learning environment, how you were raised, etc.

if that's the case, then, given that all US players give 100 percent all the time, shouldn't they al be amazing players (instead of just Brad Guzan, obvs)? Obviously not. American players give 100% because that's instilled in our athletes regardless of sport. We don't have amazing technical players because we don't teach technique as much as we should. It's no surprise that Dempsey, probably our most technically-proficient footballer (yeah I know that's not a great endorsement of the abilities of American footballers), grew-up playing the game on dirt lots with Mexican immigrant kids. Youth soccer has long been highly pretentious, focusing most on winning rather than playing correctly. That's starting to change now thankfully.

So he's the best because he practiced the most? Is that coupled with the fact that he just happened to excel in terms of skills useful for football players? Some people "get" it. Others don't. He still wasn't born with an ability to "get" it.

That's not talent though. Those are physical attributes. No one is born with an inherent ability to play a sport better than anyone else. It's all learned. Messi wasn't born with his abilities. Shout it down all you want, but it's not true. He's of course aided by his physical and mental attributes, in the same way that LeBron is aided by his height. But that has nothing to do with learning and mastering a sport.

Is this a joke, Deuce? American footballers have always been lauded for their athletic ability. We may not have the most gifted footballers technically, but our players always give 100%. And scientifically, there is no such thing as natural talent.

Better than Aaron Hughes, good grief. Perch is a shocking footballer, who offers zero protection when playing in midfield. Yep, Aaron Hughes was a good utility player not anything more. Thats harsh on Perch imo, he shouldn't be starting but he gives us his all and has had more good games than bad, including a plethora of important blocks inside our box. The his worst games have come this season with equally terrible performances if not worse surrounding him, easy scapegoat when "better" players get off lighter. Hughes has been excellent for Fulham.

MLS is one of the most rapidly growing leagues in the world. It's on par with most mid-level European leagues already. And it's only been around for 20 years. It's extraordinarily well-run, more cash flows-in every year and the quality of play consistently improves. It'll be a top 5 league within the next 25-30 years, particularly if the major European leagues continue to play it fast and loose with their finances. Great thing about the U.S. is that, being a country of 300 million people, we don't need our absolute finest athletes to choose the sport like European countries do. We still get fantastic athletes playing the game. American soccer players are already better athletes than the majority of world footballers, just not as technically proficient. But that's changing rapidly. Frankly, it's laughable to think we'd be on top of the world if only the Kobe's and Jeter's had played soccer instead. There's no such thing as natural talent. Messi didn't get to where he is because he was born with the ability to play the game: he practiced day and night and picked-up the skills faster and better than almost everyone else. The greatest failing of soccer in the U.S. is that we don't instill the game from a very young age or encourage our young players to practice day and night.

Couple of thoughts on the half that I was able to watch: 1. Jozy had his best game in years. It's obvious his game has improved tremendously since moving to the Netherlands. He and Dempsey in tandem were excellent. 2. This is our strongest formation going forward. Two box-to-box CMs in Bradley and Jones are more than capable of running the show...there's no need for the obligatory Klinsmann 3rd CM. Jones in particular has been very impressive his past few games for the national team. 3. Defense is still shaky, but Besler looked good and Gonzalez had an off-game. He runs hot and cold, we've always known that. Besler-Gonzalez at CB should be the starters going forward. Beasley wasn't terrible either, and it seems Klinsmann favors him at LB to Castillo. I still think Castillo is the long-term answer at LB, but I'm fine with Beasley holding down the spot during the qualifiers. Brad Evans was a pleasant surprise at RB, despite being a RM/CM by trade. I'd stick with him for the qualifiers too. 4. Howard is fine, but I still think Guzan should be our first-choice GK at this point. 5. Klinsmann now has wins against Italy (away), Mexico (away), and Germany (home). Yes, that wasn't Germany's A-squad. But it was still a squad that put a beating on Ecuador a few days ago and could easily handle most national teams in the world with ease. Klinsmann loves going all-out for the friendlies, but I wouldn't be shocked if we see a 3-man central midfield on the road in the qualifiers, despite yesterday's formation being by far our strongest.

In-game scoreline reads 1-1 American networks

Holy Christ.

He is what he is. Has grown by leaps and bounds at AZ, but the service he receives for the national team is consistently pitiful. And he's not a player to go out and make things happen on his own. Fuck off, smug bastard. Recognize the reverse Mike jinx. NFL-esque. I wish Dempsey was better. Dempsey breaks his leg. Mike is assassinated.

He's a good player. Classic American motor, but skillful as well.

Pitiful defending from the Germans too.

He is what he is. Has grown by leaps and bounds at AZ, but the service he receives for the national team is consistently pitiful. And he's not a player to go out and make things happen on his own.

What's that chant? "We are the humans! The mighty mighty humans!"