PlymouthGeordie

Well Burnley and Southampton have both already played them twice, both are above us and both have games in hand on us. We've had one of the easiest sets of fixtures going and the results are: 0 Wins Most goals conceded Bottom of the league It's not defeatism, it's realism. No team in PL history has stayed up from this position. Our chances of survival probably range from 0%-5%.

We still have City and Liverpool to play twice so it's more likely 20 games. I'm not one to write off matches, but those 4 games surely yield a maximum of 1 point? We haven't won in 14, we've played all 3 promoted teams and you're talking about closing a 9 point gap. I'm not saying it's impossible but it's not far off. Being honest, regardless of other teams results if we don't beat Burnley we're as good as done. Tonight is as flat as I've felt since the takeover. With 11 men we'd have strolled to a victory tonight. Norwich are so poor.

I should add, not impressed that ASM appears to believe he doesn't have to work as hard as the other lads. If he's not going to graft we shouldn't start him.

I thought Lewis was superb tonight, him and Joelinton our two best players (Jo definitely motm). If Ritchie gets back in it'll be a disgrace. If the back 4 that started tonight continues to play I do think we could sneak a result in December. Any other team bar Norwich and we probably lose tonight. We'd have wiped the floor with them if it wasn't for Clark. As long as we begin January with the gap no bigger than 6 points we have a chance. Whether that happens or not I'm not convinced. Feel for Howe, missing Brentford and then Clark tonight, he's not had much luck; that said, 90% of fans were saying pre match Fede should've started.

I'd like to see Hayden back in tomorrow. If we're playing 4-4-1-1 I just don't see how it works without Hayden. Any 6 of Fraser, ASM, Shelvey, Wilock, Joelinton, Miggy, Murphy, Wilson can't play in the same team without a ball winner. We're not good enough to have all those offensive players on the pitch at the same time and not look wide open every time the opposition have the ball. Given how we're all about high press, I don't see how Miggy and Hayden don't become almost automatic starters; they're our most aggressive pressers. I'd like to see 4-2-3-1 Dubravka Manquillo Schar Fede Lewis Hayden Shelvey Jo/Fraser Miggy ASM Wilson

This is the line up we need.

It will decide our fate. Regardless of opponent, we need wins. We've played so many mid table and bottom half teams without winning that we simply have to pick up at least 2 or 3 "shock" wins. 13 league games, no wins, no clean sheets. Anything less than 6 points from the next two makes it all but impossible.

Stating the obvious but 6 points is a must vs Norwich and Burnley. If Howe had another week on the training ground with the players I could see us getting something at Arsenal. Him not being there this week can't be underestimated. Our biggest problem is, if come January 1st we're 10-12 points from safety the transfer window becomes a write off. No chance a 28 year Tarkowski and Lingard sign knowing they'll be 30 by the time they next play in the prem. Given the cold, hard facts of the league table and December fixtures I'd struggle to understand anyone saying they're less than a 7. That said, under Howe I no longer write off games against the "big 6" like I did under Bruce so could definitely see the odd win or point in those games. It's far from over, but the table does look grim. A win on Saturday would work wonders. We just need that first win to kick start our season.

I think clubs will be reluctant to deal with us but if us and a PL rival (say Burnley/Southampton) bid for a player and the player prefers us, it will be difficult for the selling club to decline the player's request. A lot of it will come down to how much players want to join us.

I can see us targeting Ake on loan from City. Howe knows him well, he doesn't get much game time at City, it is a clear upgrade on Clark (who looks finished at this level) and could be made permanent if we stay up.

Really feeling positive about our future for the first time in a long while. If Howe can get off to a winning start vs Brentford we could really build some momentum.

I think it is a huge task to stay up and there is no doubting the next 3 home games are pivotal. In that time, Watford have the following fixtures: Man Utd (h) Leicester (a) Chelsea (h) Man City (h) If we get 7 points for our 3 home games and Arsenal away I'd fancy our chances of being 2 points ahead of them before our horrible December run. Leeds have the following December fixtures: Brentford (h) Chelsea (a) Man City (a) Arsenal (h) Liverpool (a) Burnley have a horrible January. As I'm typing this it's fair to say nothing is decided in November. We need to drag ourselves back amongst it with our 3 winnable home games and if we get to January less than 6 points from safety I fancy us.

He's lost playing on the right. He is all left foot but doesn't have the grace or trickery to cut inside ala Salah, Raphina, Greenwood etc. His game is based on impulse and instinct. He is a one man pressing machine and can be effective but only as a 10. Needs to play in a 4-2-3-1 or could work in Howe's 4-4-1-1 as a 10 in either system. He needs licence to run beyond the striker. He's never been given that under Bruce. Has been poor for past 12 months but other than Wilson and ASM who hasn't? I'm hopeful Howe will get the best out of Miggy.

I rate Schar in a 3, not sure he's great in a back 4. Our CB's are just all too slow which means we have to defend deep and can't press high.

You wouldn't buy a CB? We need two as a priority imo and one has to be quick across the ground.

I'm all in on Howe now. Speaks well, huge work ethic, plays ambitious football. Whoever took over was always going to have a big challenge to keep us up so provided we actually put up a fight with Howe in charge I'd be happy to keep him should we go down.

I'm the same. I've watched some videos of him and he seems really methodical. Saw one interview with him and Lineker and Howe said he gets to the training ground at 6am and will be there until 7pm. Polar opposite to Bruce and could be an exciting appointment. Would be good to have him in the stand at the weekend if we can't get it done in time to have him in the dugout.

I think we are a patient fan base. Bruce got given time by the fans, as did McClaren. Whoever comes in, be that Howe or Martinez will be given time by the fans and rightly so. They should and will get the rest of the season imo.

What can they say at this point? "Our first choice turned us down so now we're working our way down the list"? I've been critical but they can't communicate anything of value at present; they just need to continue with their search.

He wouldn't leave Brighton for Newcastle.

Yeah that's a good point. Agnew and Clemence need binning off asap.

I'd rather Howe over Martinez I think. Although I'm pretty tired of it all and as any new manager won't be Bruce or some random PFM they'll have my backing.

We've got to "trust the process". As you say, to spend over 3 weeks doing due diligence only to land on Howe isn't overly inspiring. That said, if it's him then we need to back him.

From Emery to Howe is such a climb down. Is there anyone that thinks this has been handled well up to this point?

It shouldn't matter to Emery, but it does to us as fans. We're being asked to trust the process but two polar opposite favourites (if that is the case) makes the process appear flawed and scattergun.