NUFC missing a Right Winger

[Zero]

I bet you've forgotten how shit Arteta was in his first season here.

21 years old, FFS. Tell me how good SWP was when he is 21.

[johnnypd]

can people see the difference between a strongly hit cross by, say, laurent robert, close to the byline, whilst he's running at speed, and a lofted cross by milner from 40 yards out, from a standing position, whilst he's had the ball for a while?

 

in one situation you have a cross with so much power that the forward only needs to get a slight nick on it and the keeper is fucked, you have a cross that is in front of the forward so he can attack it and continue his run, while the opposition defenders have to turn around and try and reposition, and the keeper is chasing the ball, and as the winger is running at pace there is opportunity to exploit the disorganisation or the defenders.

 

in the other situation you have a cross with so little power that the forward will have to manufacture the power from twisting his neck to head it at goal, the forward has to turn and head almost with his back to goal, the defender and goalkeeper don't have to turn and can more cleanly judge the flight of the ball, and as the winger has had the ball for a while, there is no disorganisation or movement, most in the box are static and its difficult for the stiker to make any space.

 

just one example of how milner's weaknesses, in this case lacking a burst of acceleration, put him at a disadvantage to others. and i'm not saying lacking pace damns a winger to mediocrity in all cases, but if you don't have any you need to be truly extra special in other areas, like a young beckham, or arteta or solano. sadly milner is even average when it comes to control, skill, passing, vision and goalscoring. for instance even when beating a player, Milner has to work very, very, very hard to get past someone, by twisting and turning, and spinning his opponent into a trance like a whirling dervish, this takes a long time and even if he beats his man, the rest of the opposition have had time to regroup behind. whereas with someone like Giggs, who these days isn't that much faster than milner (tho still having a burst of pace over 5 yards) it is completely effortless and he glides past players like a ghost. this means while giggs has advanced into the box leaving opponents sprawling, milner is still half way down the pitch, hugging the touchline, with 5 players in front of him.

[Howaythelads]

If someone adds "FACT" after a sentence does that make it true? 

 

I thought I'd ask, like. Might start using it myself.

 

Prove me wrong if you want? Just can't be arsed to look it all up again.

 

Eh? Paranoia gone mad?

 

It was a general question that was prompted by your use of it for sure, but if I was questioning your comment I'd have quoted you directly.

 

But since you mention it. As everyone who understands football knows, there is more to crossing than counting them, so you can stick your stats up your arse because they're worthless.  FACT.

[Guest Pie]

Solano was never quick and Dyer was never a right winger.

 

Milner is an evolving player and will improve year on year. 

 

Realistically who would I like as a right winger ?  James Milner.

 

 

To compare Solano and Milner is ludicrous. One is a footballer and one is a tryer. Of course we need better than Milner. He probably holds the most important position in the 4-3-3. He's ok, just nowhere near Solano standard. Or several others we have had. If he reaches Keith Gillespies standard between Jan 1995 and May 1997 I will be happy. Can't see him doing it, simply because he doesn't have the attributes.

[Guest Pie]

We need a right winger who can take us to the next step, someone like Zoggie but on the right side...Milner is NOT the one...

 

N'Zogbia has had a couple of decent games this season, was god awful last season and now Milner is not good enough despite the fact he has been played on the left this season so far and looked ok.

 

Jesus wept.

 

 

N'Zogbia is a far better footballer than Milner ever will be. He's raw but he does have the attributes Milner is sadly lacking. Milner is an ideal squad player. However, he is nowhere near what we should be settling for.

[Guest Pie]

Martins currently plays on the right when playing 433, Milner and Duff can play there too as can Geremi. Unless players like Ronaldo/ Joe Cole/ Ronaldinho or some fantastic up and coming want to come and play for us i'm quite happy with what we currently have for the moment.

 

On the pitch Milner was our best player last year and keeps on geting better and he's only 21 or whatever!! He's got a great work ethic/attitude and two very good feet, he beats defenders with skill or sometimes pace (he's not as fast as the SWP's Lennons and Dyers of this world but he's hardly slow) as quick as say Joe Cole and quicker than the Beckhams and Waddle's who were fantastic too in their day.

Just going to point a few glaring problems with that post. You obviously never saw Chrissy Waddle play. He was yards quicker than Milner and significantly quicker than most in the league at the time. Dyer has never been a winger. The majority of games he has played have been in central midfield.  Joe Cole is actually quite quick. Again, yards quicker than Milner with a far superior touch and ability.

Milner is actually fairly slow. Count the number of times he gets an early ball when we coud break and he decides to slow the game down. There is a simple reason why he does that.

Nice lad, hard working and top squad player. Unless we aim for mediocrity then we need an outlet whether it be 4-3-3 or 4-4-2. He simply doesn't have the characteristics or ability for that role.

 

By the way, Joe Cole started his career with West Ham playing the majority of games in central midfield. He played on the left to benefit England. He isn't a winger in any sense of the word but is talented enough to do a job out wide. as for claiming he and Milner are evenly matched pace wise? Mental, tbh

[Thorpinho]

I cannot understand how someone can berate Milner's crossing ability and then mention N'Zogbia - it really is unbelievable. N'Zogbia isn't very good at all at crossing, and compared to Milner his crossing his utter shite. Yet still people cream themselves over N'Zogbia and can't even acknowledge that Milner is a good player. N'Zogbia is allowed to be "raw, got some ability" but Milner isn't maradona by the age of 20 and is deemed as complete rubbish by a lot of people on here. Its depressing. Even more so is that Milner's fitness, committment and work rate are all arguably the best in our squad and he must be one of the fittest players in the league. After the criticism the likes of Dyer have got over the years for lacking theses attributes and people constantly whining about "when are we going to sign some fit players or some players who work hard", you would think that Milner must get some credit - but no he's completeley and utterly useless isn't he!

[Baggio]

can people see the difference between a strongly hit cross by, say, laurent robert, close to the byline, whilst he's running at speed, and a lofted cross by milner from 40 yards out, from a standing position, whilst he's had the ball for a while?

 

in one situation you have a cross with so much power that the forward only needs to get a slight nick on it and the keeper is fucked, you have a cross that is in front of the forward so he can attack it and continue his run, while the opposition defenders have to turn around and try and reposition, and the keeper is chasing the ball, and as the winger is running at pace there is opportunity to exploit the disorganisation or the defenders.

 

in the other situation you have a cross with so little power that the forward will have to manufacture the power from twisting his neck to head it at goal, the forward has to turn and head almost with his back to goal, the defender and goalkeeper don't have to turn and can more cleanly judge the flight of the ball, and as the winger has had the ball for a while, there is no disorganisation or movement, most in the box are static and its difficult for the stiker to make any space.

 

just one example of how milner's weaknesses, in this case lacking a burst of acceleration, put him at a disadvantage to others. and i'm not saying lacking pace damns a winger to mediocrity in all cases, but if you don't have any you need to be truly extra special in other areas, like a young beckham, or arteta or solano. sadly milner is even average when it comes to control, skill, passing, vision and goalscoring. for instance even when beating a player, Milner has to work very, very, very hard to get past someone, by twisting and turning, and spinning his opponent into a trance like a whirling dervish, this takes a long time and even if he beats his man, the rest of the opposition have had time to regroup behind. whereas with someone like Giggs, who these days isn't that much faster than milner (tho still having a burst of pace over 5 yards) it is completely effortless and he glides past players like a ghost. this means while giggs has advanced into the box leaving opponents sprawling, milner is still half way down the pitch, hugging the touchline, with 5 players in front of him.

 

A good observation about his crossing and you've put it better than I've been trying to do over the last few weeks.

 

 

[Gallowgate End]

I think a lot of people under value James Milner delivery and productivity he adds to our team.

 

Lets not forget its the same James Milner who got 11 assists last season and 9 assists the season before in all competitions, yes he may not have the pace of a Lennon but in terms of delivery and productivity he has been up there with the best statistically for the last couple of seasons now.

 

I am a big supporter of him and in terms of assists and delivery from wide he is and has been our most important player who lets not forget is still developing as a player.

 

Also as someone pointed out his ability to deliver from either foot from either the Left Wing or Right Wing is very hard to defend against and is a very rare quality which is something he has over most other wingers along with his assists stats.

 

I think certainly its vital for the goals of Viduka, Martins, Owen this season for Milner delivery to be in the team.

[ohmelads]

The loss of Dyer and Solano without replacements took the shine off the transfer window for me. That pace and creativity has not been replaced. Smith came in, but we're yet to identify his role in the first XI, if he even has one.

 

I think this is an issue which may well need addressed in January, because if Milner picks up an injury we will be back to putting square pegs in round holes. For all our squad depth, it just takes one injury for that to happen, which is disappointing. IMO it is the highest priority position for strengthening. I know there's a lot of talk about a classy player in the middle of the park. Well that'd be nice, but we've got loads of cover already for that position and would possibly have to break the bank to guarantee major improvement over the likes of Barton, Geremi et al, who are decent enough players. At right wing, a modest sum could go a long way to improving our options and many believe a decent sum would give us a significant improvement on Milner.

 

I'm still a bit undecided on Milner, the arguments against him are very convincing but then there's no getting away from the fact he has been our most creative player on the ball this season and doesn't deserve to be singled out the way he is. Presuming we only have a few million to spend in January, I think a quick right winger would give us cover, competition and perhaps most importantly the option to change a game in our favour. If we're too one-dimensional we'll find ourselves dropping points to bottom-half teams who we can't break down and to get where we want to be, we can't afford to be doing that too often.

[Shearergol]

Baggio, serious question; is there an English player you actually like/rate?

[Baggio]

Baggio, serious question; is there an English player you actually like/rate?

 

Frank Lampard.

[ChezGiven]

Baggio, serious question; is there an English player you actually like/rate?

 

Frank Lampard.

 

[Guest Pie]

The loss of Dyer and Solano without replacements took the shine off the transfer window for me. That pace and creativity has not been replaced. Smith came in, but we're yet to identify his role in the first XI, if he even has one.

 

I think this is an issue which may well need addressed in January, because if Milner picks up an injury we will be back to putting square pegs in round holes. For all our squad depth, it just takes one injury for that to happen, which is disappointing. IMO it is the highest priority position for strengthening. I know there's a lot of talk about a classy player in the middle of the park. Well that'd be nice, but we've got loads of cover already for that position and would possibly have to break the bank to guarantee major improvement over the likes of Barton, Geremi et al, who are decent enough players. At right wing, a modest sum could go a long way to improving our options and many believe a decent sum would give us a significant improvement on Milner.

 

I'm still a bit undecided on Milner, the arguments against him are very convincing but then there's no getting away from the fact he has been our most creative player on the ball this season and doesn't deserve to be singled out the way he is. Presuming we only have a few million to spend in January, I think a quick right winger would give us cover, competition and perhaps most importantly the option to change a game in our favour. If we're too one-dimensional we'll find ourselves dropping points to bottom-half teams who we can't break down and to get where we want to be, we can't afford to be doing that too often.

One dimensional? We have 3 players too similar to each in midfield. Some decent forwards and a bloke who can lift a ball but struggles to cross it. Seriously, Smith and Milner are good squad players. The other two we sold are far better suited to what we need right now and both played very well together in successful NUFC sides. Despite what the revisionists may have you believe.

[ohmelads]

The loss of Dyer and Solano without replacements took the shine off the transfer window for me. That pace and creativity has not been replaced. Smith came in, but we're yet to identify his role in the first XI, if he even has one.

 

I think this is an issue which may well need addressed in January, because if Milner picks up an injury we will be back to putting square pegs in round holes. For all our squad depth, it just takes one injury for that to happen, which is disappointing. IMO it is the highest priority position for strengthening. I know there's a lot of talk about a classy player in the middle of the park. Well that'd be nice, but we've got loads of cover already for that position and would possibly have to break the bank to guarantee major improvement over the likes of Barton, Geremi et al, who are decent enough players. At right wing, a modest sum could go a long way to improving our options and many believe a decent sum would give us a significant improvement on Milner.

 

I'm still a bit undecided on Milner, the arguments against him are very convincing but then there's no getting away from the fact he has been our most creative player on the ball this season and doesn't deserve to be singled out the way he is. Presuming we only have a few million to spend in January, I think a quick right winger would give us cover, competition and perhaps most importantly the option to change a game in our favour. If we're too one-dimensional we'll find ourselves dropping points to bottom-half teams who we can't break down and to get where we want to be, we can't afford to be doing that too often.

One dimensional? We have 3 players too similar to each in midfield. Some decent forwards and a bloke who can lift a ball but struggles to cross it. Seriously, Smith and Milner are good squad players. The other two we sold are far better suited to what we need right now and both played very well together in successful NUFC sides. Despite what the revisionists may have you believe.

 

I agree with every word of that. Dyer's injuries and Solano's age/family issues meant there was a good case for selling both, but replacements were needed. Effectively two first team places were freed up but apparently Smith is a squad signing, so it's fair to say one of them was not replaced. In terms of their pace and guile, respectively I can't see that either were replaced when I look at the signings who came in. It leaves us with a job to do in January, but for now we can only hope Milner stays fit and on form. Considering Smith was the joint most expensive signing this year it seems strange that the vast majority of us probably wouldn't put him in our first XI.

[Thespence]

Oh dear, another fan boy with his knickers in a twist.

 

Nobody has said get him out, they're simply saying if we want to improve then we should look to bring in better, the same as we've done with Steven "The next John Terry" Taylor.

 

I am not a phucking fan boy. 

 

Lunatics come out the wood work talking about replacing a future prospect 6 games into a season. 

 

Fooking stupid t***.

 

Laters.

 

What a twat trying to get people banned. It is football people getting wound up in a debate nothing more than that.

 

I have bolded my own naughty words, you snake in the grass 

[Yorkie]

If i was trying to get someone banned i'd have pressed the report to mod button. Jesus. I apologise.

[johnnypd]

Milner has been one of our most creative players last season, but that was in a shit side, same as when he shone in a crap villa side. he might make a few assists and score one or two goals, but his general play is not so great, he's not giving us the extra dimension a player with more pace or better vision/skill will give us. over a season milner might only be a couple of assists worse than someone like Bentley or Lennon but they have other aspects to their game that puts them in a different league. it's a bit like Beckham for england at the end of Sven's reign, he would probably have by far the most assists of any england player, but the fact he wasn't providing other things that the side needed, meant he was holding us back and should've been jettisoned for someone like SWP.

 

and no one is saying milner is worse than dogmuck, just that he is an average player, and one we can definitely improve on, especially as our close rivals have better.

[Guest TampaToon]

whatever milner is or isn't, we need to add depth and competition and give our milners and n'zogbias some good players to learn from and a chance to peak at ages 25-29 without being physically burnt out.  that's why i thought the duff move was a good one at the time it was made.

[Thespence]

Milner has been one of our most creative players last season, but that was in a s*** side

 

Being one of our most creative players last season, I am unsure if that is praise or not. How many goals did he create? Because I know we socred hardly any in the league. Number of key passes?  I don't think you should say "that was in a shite side" he was part of a shite side.

 

I like Milner because he gives his all to the cause, I like Milner because he works at his game by stopping behind after training, I like Milner because he did not bitch on after the Villa fiasco but I dont see him as this creative force some do & I think he would benfit playing in the middle.

 

Check out SKY text page 260 to see who Opta class as our most creative players so far this season.

 

 

[Baggio]

Check out SKY text page 260 to see who Opta class as our most creative players so far this season.

 

Can't you just tell us, Spence?

[johnnypd]

Milner has been one of our most creative players last season, but that was in a s*** side

 

Being one of our most creative players last season, I am unsure if that is praise or not. How many goals did he create? Because I know we socred hardly any in the league. Number of key passes?  I don't think you should say "that was in a shite side" he was part of a shite side.

 

I like Milner because he gives his all to the cause, I like Milner because he works at his game by stopping behind after training, I like Milner because he did not bitch on after the Villa fiasco but I dont see him as this creative force some do & I think he would benfit playing in the middle.

 

Check out SKY text page 260 to see who Opta class as our most creative players so far this season.

 

 

 

that was the point i was trying to get across 

[Thespence]

Check out SKY text page 260 to see who Opta class as our most creative players so far this season.

 

Can't you just tell us, Spence?

 

Opta Sportsdata Creators

Rank  Name    Key passes

1)      Nzog            6

2)      Geremi          5

3)      Viduka          5

4)      Milner            4

5)      Smith            3

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Solano was never quick and Dyer was never a right winger.

 

Milner is an evolving player and will improve year on year. 

 

Realistically who would I like as a right winger ?  James Milner.

 

 

To compare Solano and Milner is ludicrous. One is a footballer and one is a tryer. Of course we need better than Milner. He probably holds the most important position in the 4-3-3. He's ok, just nowhere near Solano standard. Or several others we have had. If he reaches Keith Gillespies standard between Jan 1995 and May 1997 I will be happy . Can't see him doing it, simply because he doesn't have the attributes.

 

Don' t want him to be that shite.  Maybe he could have one good game if we ever get to play Barcelona again by putting a couple of decent balls in the box and live off that for the rest of his career.  Worked for Gillespie.

[Rich]

Solano was never quick and Dyer was never a right winger.

 

Milner is an evolving player and will improve year on year. 

 

Realistically who would I like as a right winger ?  James Milner.

 

 

To compare Solano and Milner is ludicrous. One is a footballer and one is a tryer. Of course we need better than Milner. He probably holds the most important position in the 4-3-3. He's ok, just nowhere near Solano standard. Or several others we have had. If he reaches Keith Gillespies standard between Jan 1995 and May 1997 I will be happy . Can't see him doing it, simply because he doesn't have the attributes.

 

Don' t want him to be that shite.  Maybe he could have one good game if we ever get to play Barcelona again by putting a couple of decent balls in the box and live off that for the rest of his career.  Worked for Gillespie.

 

Oh dear.