Benny Benitez: Parky 6 Benny 2 (Benitez watch.). Inter sack the waiter.

[Decky]

Not convinced by the scoreline here. Benny should have a goal because hes in the job 3 years after Parky thought it would be up for the chop

[jdckelly]

Having knee surgery tonight apparently. Got to be a doubt for the World Cup you would have thought.

its what 10 weeks to world cup? and motd said 6 weeks out, probably will recover but will he be match fit.

Injury bug hitting spain fabregas (how long is he out for) now torres

[Parky]

SSSn this morning, on the ticker tape has Hicks quoted as saying he wants 800 million for Liverpool 

 

 

 

Christ on moped.

[wacko]

It was Rafa that fucked Xabi over which has cost ya's more than anything.

 

So very true.

 

Derek Hatton still looks like the best left winger in Liverpool. How much has been spent on signing loads of shite youngsters from Spain & Eastern Europe are any of them even close to making the grade?  Back to wingers you have had a shed load & yet his solution for the right is he plays your best CM or Sloth out wide.  I hope you get decent owners in as that will mean Liverpool can see failings of In Rafa We Trust. That Italian ever likely to start 5 games off the belt yet?

 

Nah. Rafa seems to have a Mourinho-esque problem with playing kids. He won't tolerate the mistakes they make while developing, so they don't get the chance to develop properly. That said, we almost always turn a profit selling on youngsters Rafa never used (and with most other players, too). As for wingers, how many top-notch wingers are there at the moment? They're like rocking-horse shit, and correspondingly cost an arm and a leg. Gerrard is a 20+ goal/season winger, so that's a very strange criticism to make, and while Kuyt may be a shit winger in the classic mould, he works very well with an attacking fullback.

 

A CL absolves everything, really. If one of our managers won us the CL I could care less if we finished the following season 7th. Sure it may be time for a change, and should've happened a while back, but that shouldn't stop them from loving the man.

 

Is right. Whatever your criticisms of Rafa's performance in the league, he has created a very formidable European side. It's a lot easier to stomach losing to the likes of Burnley when the flipside is beating the likes of Barcelona and Inter at their grounds, and subjecting Real Madrid (God, I hate them) to their worst defeat in living memory.

 

 

Let's see, we have a club being kept afloat by the £300m bank debt being renegotiated almost annually, a stadium that is at least 20,000 seats short of its ideal capacity, and no room to extend, two co-owners who will do anything to get at the other man, and a squad of average players who need to be shipped out very soon. Oh yes, and a tactically inept twat of a manager who has spunked over £100m on mediocrity and will cost £15m-20m to sack. That sounds like a bargain doesn't it?

 

Anyone who buys Liverpool right now must either be mental and/or so rich that the £500m+ needed to build a new stadium, clear debts etc. is pocket money.

 

= Feked.

 

We are not being kept afloat by the £300m debt: we are being dragged under by it. That debt is the money Hicks and Gillet used to buy the club, much like Man Utd's debt. The difference is that the debt is not held by the club, but by the club's owners. They want the club to pay down the debt, so they don't have to, but it's their debt, not the club's. The price they're asking is to pay off that debt and the rest is their profit from their little venture. The wankers.

 

I can't get my head around how Liverpool fans love Rafa though. He has done well for them getting to 2 CL finals and winning one, as well as the FA cup etc., but the amount of money he has thrown away on average players is ridiculous... how anyone can justify 18m on a right back and then moan about needing more funds for strengthening is beyond me.

 

You can, because the clubs you're competing against consider £18m the going rate for a squad player. £18m was far too much for Johnson, but it makes sense in a way. It increases the number of English players in the squad (with a view to UEFA's new regulations), which was also the motivation behind trying to get Barry and Keane in for Alonso, and it was meant to provide a good balance between attack and defence on the right in combination with Kuyt. An attacking winger to replace Kuyt would have likely cost far more.

 

While I agree that Rafa has brought in and moved on far too many sub-standard players (instead of splashing the cost of 3 on 1 good player), he has rarely lost money on a transfer, as Houllier so often did, and as Man Utd almost invariably do. So you may accuse him of buying too much dross (and most LFC fans would agree), but there's little foundation for accusations of throwing away money.

[Village Idiot]

Didn't the 18m for Johnson include money indebted from Crouch's transfer that was as good as lost due to Pompey's situation?

[Guest Heneage]

Didn't the 18m for Johnson include money indebted from Crouch's transfer that was as good as lost due to Pompey's situation?

Correct 7m I believe.

[Parky]

It was Rafa that fucked Xabi over which has cost ya's more than anything.

 

So very true.

 

Derek Hatton still looks like the best left winger in Liverpool. How much has been spent on signing loads of shite youngsters from Spain & Eastern Europe are any of them even close to making the grade?  Back to wingers you have had a shed load & yet his solution for the right is he plays your best CM or Sloth out wide.  I hope you get decent owners in as that will mean Liverpool can see failings of In Rafa We Trust. That Italian ever likely to start 5 games off the belt yet?

 

Nah. Rafa seems to have a Mourinho-esque problem with playing kids. He won't tolerate the mistakes they make while developing, so they don't get the chance to develop properly. That said, we almost always turn a profit selling on youngsters Rafa never used (and with most other players, too). As for wingers, how many top-notch wingers are there at the moment? They're like rocking-horse shit, and correspondingly cost an arm and a leg. Gerrard is a 20+ goal/season winger, so that's a very strange criticism to make, and while Kuyt may be a shit winger in the classic mould, he works very well with an attacking fullback.

 

A CL absolves everything, really. If one of our managers won us the CL I could care less if we finished the following season 7th. Sure it may be time for a change, and should've happened a while back, but that shouldn't stop them from loving the man.

 

Is right. Whatever your criticisms of Rafa's performance in the league, he has created a very formidable European side. It's a lot easier to stomach losing to the likes of Burnley when the flipside is beating the likes of Barcelona and Inter at their grounds, and subjecting Real Madrid (God, I hate them) to their worst defeat in living memory.

 

 

Let's see, we have a club being kept afloat by the £300m bank debt being renegotiated almost annually, a stadium that is at least 20,000 seats short of its ideal capacity, and no room to extend, two co-owners who will do anything to get at the other man, and a squad of average players who need to be shipped out very soon. Oh yes, and a tactically inept twat of a manager who has spunked over £100m on mediocrity and will cost £15m-20m to sack. That sounds like a bargain doesn't it?

 

Anyone who buys Liverpool right now must either be mental and/or so rich that the £500m+ needed to build a new stadium, clear debts etc. is pocket money.

 

= Feked.

 

We are not being kept afloat by the £300m debt: we are being dragged under by it. That debt is the money Hicks and Gillet used to buy the club, much like Man Utd's debt. The difference is that the debt is not held by the club, but by the club's owners. They want the club to pay down the debt, so they don't have to, but it's their debt, not the club's. The price they're asking is to pay off that debt and the rest is their profit from their little venture. The wankers.

 

I can't get my head around how Liverpool fans love Rafa though. He has done well for them getting to 2 CL finals and winning one, as well as the FA cup etc., but the amount of money he has thrown away on average players is ridiculous... how anyone can justify 18m on a right back and then moan about needing more funds for strengthening is beyond me.

 

You can, because the clubs you're competing against consider £18m the going rate for a squad player. £18m was far too much for Johnson, but it makes sense in a way. It increases the number of English players in the squad (with a view to UEFA's new regulations), which was also the motivation behind trying to get Barry and Keane in for Alonso, and it was meant to provide a good balance between attack and defence on the right in combination with Kuyt. An attacking winger to replace Kuyt would have likely cost far more.

 

While I agree that Rafa has brought in and moved on far too many sub-standard players (instead of splashing the cost of 3 on 1 good player), he has rarely lost money on a transfer, as Houllier so often did, and as Man Utd almost invariably do. So you may accuse him of buying too much dross (and most LFC fans would agree), but there's little foundation for accusations of throwing away money.

 

Cut a long story short, he's been too cautious and defensive and has compounded it by spending badly.

[wacko]

Cut a long story short, he's been too cautious and defensive and has compounded it by spending badly.

 

Yes and yes. Sort of.

 

Not cautious and defensive per se, but as a side-effect of being too analytical and controlled, yes. Chess grand-mastery doesn't help you when the other guy's playing British Bulldogs. Under Rafa, most of our best domestic football has been played when the situation is so desperate that the team has had to abandon Rafa's hyper-disciplined style and played with guts and balls.

 

The flipside of that is why Man Utd's success in Europe has been limited compared to their domestic success. They play too English. You have to play possession football in Europe.

 

Rafa's spent too much on the squad, and not enough on the first team. In particular, he's walked away from a couple of pretty much done deals with very good players (Simao and Dani Alves) after last minute price hikes of 1-2 million, and then spent the money on a couple of £7m makeweights instead.

 

Thing is, who could we bring it that might be better? Given that there's basically fuck-all to spend at the moment, the only top-class manager that could work well under those conditions is probably Wenger.

[Parky]

Cut a long story short, he's been too cautious and defensive and has compounded it by spending badly.

 

Yes and yes. Sort of.

 

Not cautious and defensive per se, but as a side-effect of being too analytical and controlled, yes. Chess grand-mastery doesn't help you when the other guy's playing British Bulldogs. Under Rafa, most of our best domestic football has been played when the situation is so desperate that the team has had to abandon Rafa's hyper-disciplined style and played with guts and balls.

 

The flipside of that is why Man Utd's success in Europe has been limited compared to their domestic success. They play too English. You have to play possession football in Europe.

 

Rafa's spent too much on the squad, and not enough on the first team. In particular, he's walked away from a couple of pretty much done deals with very good players (Simao and Dani Alves) after last minute price hikes of 1-2 million, and then spent the money on a couple of £7m makeweights instead.

 

Thing is, who could we bring it that might be better? Given that there's basically fuck-all to spend at the moment, the only top-class manager that could work well under those conditions is probably Wenger.

 

A case well made. Wasn't up on his transfer hijinx to the extent you are obviously...What I always hated analysing him is the way the full backs would only come up in the last 10 min if a game really needed pulling out of the fire.

 

Give Sammy Lee a go. 

[wacko]

Cut a long story short, he's been too cautious and defensive and has compounded it by spending badly.

 

Yes and yes. Sort of.

 

Not cautious and defensive per se, but as a side-effect of being too analytical and controlled, yes. Chess grand-mastery doesn't help you when the other guy's playing British Bulldogs. Under Rafa, most of our best domestic football has been played when the situation is so desperate that the team has had to abandon Rafa's hyper-disciplined style and played with guts and balls.

 

The flipside of that is why Man Utd's success in Europe has been limited compared to their domestic success. They play too English. You have to play possession football in Europe.

 

Rafa's spent too much on the squad, and not enough on the first team. In particular, he's walked away from a couple of pretty much done deals with very good players (Simao and Dani Alves) after last minute price hikes of 1-2 million, and then spent the money on a couple of £7m makeweights instead.

 

Thing is, who could we bring it that might be better? Given that there's basically fuck-all to spend at the moment, the only top-class manager that could work well under those conditions is probably Wenger.

 

A case well made. Wasn't up on his transfer hijinx to the extent you are obviously...What I always hated analysing him is the way the full backs would only come up in the last 10 min if a game really needed pulling out of the fire.

 

Give Sammy Lee a go. 

 

Yeah. Those are my two major bugbears with Rafa. He's too cautious when we're playing lesser sides who we could easily blow off the pitch if we cut loose, and he's too conservative in the transfer market. In fact, he's just a bit too conservative. For the Premier League, at any rate.

 

That said, he is learning. Last season's great league performance was largely due to his taking note of players' observations that his rotation meant the side wasn't getting into the groove till we were already out of the title race.

[Village Idiot]

Rafa Benítez has always been a conservative manager, he's played with two DMs since the dawn of times (the Baraja/Albelda fearsome twosome). He won the Spanish league with a lowest goals scored record for a winning side since 38 games are played. His rotations have always been a big part of the gameplan, although in Spain they gave him an edge since his Valencia was always considerably fitter than most of the opposition when reaching the business end of the season. I think that the virtues that made his team unique in Spain (athleticism, extreme tactical discipline, addiction to prozone), are less so in England but still effective in continental football.

[wacko]

Rafa Benítez has always been a conservative manager, he's played with two DMs since the dawn of times (the Baraja/Albelda fearsome twosome). He won the Spanish league with a lowest goals scored record for a winning side since 38 games are played. His rotations have always been a big part of the gameplan, although in Spain they gave him an edge since his Valencia was always considerably fitter than most of the opposition when reaching the business end of the season. I think that the virtues that made his team unique in Spain (athleticism, extreme tactical discipline, addiction to prozone), are less so in England but still effective in continental football.

 

In the first league-winning season (51 goals). They scored 71 the second time, two years later, just one goal shy of top-scorers Madrid, who came fourth. The fitness thing largely holds true for his Liverpool side, too.

 

Our form under Rafa has almost always improved as the season goes on, and we have typically hit the business end of the season firing on all cylinders. Notably, in 2005, we went into the Chelsea CL semi with more or less a fully-rested squad at full fitness, while Chelsea turned up knackered and missing their wingers, because Mourinho had been sending out his A-team week-in, week-out.

 

You're quite right that it's more effective in Spain, though. Apart from the very high fitness of EPL sides, overall, over recent seasons, the leading teams simply haven't dropped enough points for our great season-end form to compensate for the slow start.

[Village Idiot]

Rafa Benítez has always been a conservative manager, he's played with two DMs since the dawn of times (the Baraja/Albelda fearsome twosome). He won the Spanish league with a lowest goals scored record for a winning side since 38 games are played. His rotations have always been a big part of the gameplan, although in Spain they gave him an edge since his Valencia was always considerably fitter than most of the opposition when reaching the business end of the season. I think that the virtues that made his team unique in Spain (athleticism, extreme tactical discipline, addiction to prozone), are less so in England but still effective in continental football.

 

In the first league-winning season (51 goals). They scored 71 the second time, two years later, just one goal shy of top-scorers Madrid, who came fourth. The fitness thing largely holds true for his Liverpool side, too.

 

Our form under Rafa has almost always improved as the season goes on, and we have typically hit the business end of the season firing on all cylinders. Notably, in 2005, we went into the Chelsea CL semi with more or less a fully-rested squad at full fitness, while Chelsea turned up knackered and missing their wingers, because Mourinho had been sending out his A-team week-in, week-out.

 

You're quite right that it's more effective in Spain, though. Apart from the very high fitness of EPL sides, overall, over recent seasons, the leading teams simply haven't dropped enough points for our great season-end form to compensate for the slow start.

 

Does he get the same stick he did in Spain for his zonal marking? Up to this season your defensive record was pretty good (and it is pretty decent this year considering your table position). He got mocked often here with the "grass doesn't score goals" thing.

[wacko]

Rafa Benítez has always been a conservative manager, he's played with two DMs since the dawn of times (the Baraja/Albelda fearsome twosome). He won the Spanish league with a lowest goals scored record for a winning side since 38 games are played. His rotations have always been a big part of the gameplan, although in Spain they gave him an edge since his Valencia was always considerably fitter than most of the opposition when reaching the business end of the season. I think that the virtues that made his team unique in Spain (athleticism, extreme tactical discipline, addiction to prozone), are less so in England but still effective in continental football.

 

In the first league-winning season (51 goals). They scored 71 the second time, two years later, just one goal shy of top-scorers Madrid, who came fourth. The fitness thing largely holds true for his Liverpool side, too.

 

Our form under Rafa has almost always improved as the season goes on, and we have typically hit the business end of the season firing on all cylinders. Notably, in 2005, we went into the Chelsea CL semi with more or less a fully-rested squad at full fitness, while Chelsea turned up knackered and missing their wingers, because Mourinho had been sending out his A-team week-in, week-out.

 

You're quite right that it's more effective in Spain, though. Apart from the very high fitness of EPL sides, overall, over recent seasons, the leading teams simply haven't dropped enough points for our great season-end form to compensate for the slow start.

 

Does he get the same stick he did in Spain for his zonal marking? Up to this season your defensive record was pretty good (and it is pretty decent this year considering your table position). He got mocked often here with the "grass doesn't score goals" thing.

 

Hell yes. Every time we concede a goal, the pundits blame it on zonal marking. There's no player they can blame for failing to pick up their man, so they blame the system. Incredibly short-sighted.

[Parky]

Zonal marking is more fluid and the only way to go IMO.

[cubaricho]

Zonal marking is more fluid and the only way to go IMO.

 

A classic case of works better in theory.

[hoppaz]

Lad I work with who has family in Liverpool said to me today that there are strong rumours going around there that Gerard has got a young lass pregnant. Anyone else heard this?

[Parky]

Lad I work with who has family in Liverpool said to me today that there are strong rumours going around there that Gerard has got a young lass pregnant. Anyone else heard this?

 

No, but let's make out it's true anyway. 

[Ocho]

Something in the 'not worthy of a thread' thread.  Also something about Curran supposedly shagging Kris Commons too.  And Gerrard is allegedly trying to get a Terry-esque injuction.  Dunno if any of it's tru though.

 

All over the net if you google it.

[Shearergol]

Something in the 'not worthy of a thread' thread.  Also something about Curran supposedly shagging Kris Commons too.  And Gerrard is allegedly trying to get a Terry-esque injuction.  Dunno if any of it's tru though.

 

All over the net if you google it.

 

Random question about Alex, but has she had "surgery"?

[wacko]

Zonal marking is more fluid and the only way to go IMO.

 

A classic case of works better in theory.

 

Disagree. It's a better system. Man-to-man puts attackers under more pressure, but zonal marking leaves fewer gaps and keeps the side better positioned for a second ball or counter-attack.

[cubaricho]

Zonal marking is more fluid and the only way to go IMO.

 

A classic case of works better in theory.

 

Disagree. It's a better system. Man-to-man puts attackers under more pressure, but zonal marking leaves fewer gaps and keeps the side better positioned for a second ball or counter-attack.

 

Like I said, great in theory.

[Thespence]

I do not give a shit that the wop & jew scored for Liverpool tonight @ the end of the day if your picking a Liverpool team you do not play Steven Gerreard as DM & put  Johnson to LB for Argie DM to play rb. I know one persone did but can everyone just class this person as a idiot or extremly lucky from now on.

[Village Idiot]

The problem with Aquilani is that playing him forces Benítez to slot Gerrard back to DM or play with a single DM, and he would get an anaphylactic shock if he did.

 

I think Aquilani/Gerrard playing as CM/AM would be a great combination. Very different styles, both very attacking.

[Thespence]

This is why Rafa is a idiot you play SG in AM role or AMR & then whack in the other 10 Liverpool players. Rafa is nullifying Gerrard more than the oppo manager.