Allardyce simply isn't brave enough and is too obsessed with his platform.

[Parky]

Weren't City toss against Man Utd and lucky to win?

 

That's the point HTT is making...they have a new side you know. 

 

Thier overall football has been a lot better than ours generally etc...

 

No it wasn't my point and no they haven't, only MOTD seems to have packaged them that way. They've played infinitively better than they did under Pearce so asking any City fan and you'll get comparisons with Brazil. From what I've seen though they've played some neat stuff at times, general awkwardness the rest. In short nowt special. They are very similar to us indeed, low scoring games, clean sheets etc. And despite their creative players, they've struggled to create and convert at times too.

 

Wonder why...

 

 

...I don't particlularly rate their strikers and they did lose the Bulgarian kid (Bojinov?) first week of the season who might have made a differance.

 

Swap Bojinov for Barton or Duff or even Owen, players who might have made a difference for us had they been in the side of fully functioning as hasn't been the case with Owen.

 

Accepted.

[Guest Knightrider]

People also forget that creativity can only come from understanding. Going by logic on here all we have to do to fix our creative problems is to buy a playmaker. Sorry but that's the same flawed logic that the likes of Souness et al applied to problems, namely the defence. Lets spend £8m on a French international - that will shore up the back-four. Doesn't work like that though.

 

When the team are fully tuned in to one another's games and the manager's methods and vice versa, we will see in increase in creativity regardless of whether we deploy a specialist playmaker or not. That can only come with time and more importantly games, however, something many in this thread don't seem to have any comprehension of with there "I want it all and I want it now" mindset, one that is indicative of the modern day fan.

 

The team that faced West Ham was basically a new team. The entire back-four and 'keeper have never played together before this season, neither had the midfield or the attack. Same against Derby.

 

How anyone can expect such a new team to hit the ground running and win convincingly in style home and away, is beyond me. It defies the laws of football.

 

In an age where we all have access to various data, lots of different types of football on offer and expert opinion and analysis almost on tap, fans today are probably the least clued up of any generation and this thread highlights that perfectly.

 

IMO of course, he says knowing how sensitive some people are...

 

Man City? 

 

The team we are 2 points behind with a game in hand you mean, who have spent £50m quid or something?

 

 

 

 

 

...no the team who have been playing good cogent football since the start of the season which inc a win over Man Utd.

 

wo ho there tiger, step away from the poppy plated bi-focals, they got absolutely f****** battered against man u, granted they've been playing well but they haven't set the standard to say the least, i've seen them look just as clueless as us

 

 

They've played ManU, Arsenal and Villa in thier opening matches and won 2 out of 3 of those. I'd be overjoyed with similar results against those sides.

 

oh, so would i, i just think to write off the (usually) well known fact that it takes a new manager, team, set of coaches a while to bring things together by pointing at man city and saying 'well they're playing better than us and they've just started' is a touch naive to say the least. unless of course you're just playing devils advocate, which i dont really see the point of in this case. sometimes the exception proves the rule.

 

It was a simple couter to this new side/bedding in/ argument and the first that came to mind. Out of interest I think Villa are also looking extremely good but  he's had an extra year which I accept SA will need.

 

But they are not even an exception man, we are only 2 points behind them. Saying they play better football than us or have looked better doesn't prove anything either.

 

Come up with a few more teams and you might have a case.

[Geordie Boot Boy]

Spurs will recover, sadly.

 

It all depends on the next manager IMO.  If they don't change the manager, they probably will recover but they won't finish in the top 7 or 8 IMO.

 

Comparable to us after SBR was sacked.  Unfortunately, I doubt they'll go out and hire someone of Graeme Souness' incompetence.

[Guest Knightrider]

I'm interested in results and good football.

 

And you expect both after 6 games, given the mess we were in and the changes the manager has had to make?

 

 

No I expect to see signs and there have been some that what we're trying to aim at. As I've said earlier I'm fully behind SA, but the point of this thread is that he is over defensive at times and up untill the WH game (where we had good spells) there was a bit of a malaise in midfield with no one really sure what to do, granted Geremi had a couple of bad games and Smith is out of position.

 

All true but these things are to be expected Parky, especially when your entire midfield is new (not to mention defence and attack) and when it's missing the hub (Barton).

 

I think, on reflection, we've done really well. I didn't expect much when we kicked off so I'm more than happy with our start and I'm seeing lots of little things that convince me we are in good hands, things that I was concerned about regarding Big Sam myself.

 

I honestly expected us to lineup 4-3-3 regardless, that the manager would force his players into that system even if some weren't best suited to it. I expected this because I know he's a firm believer in his ability to mould and develop players and the whole notion that players can be moulded - which they can.

 

The football at times has also surprised me, especially from the back where we more often than not look to pass it out into midfield. Not that I should be surprised mind because I was never a critic of Big Sam's Bolton side who I thought got a bad press where their own football was concerned, they were not a long ball team hell bent on hoofing it, they often played neat stuff, especially in triangles and deep midfield which we've been witnessing ourselves.

 

What has impressed me most however is the little things, the minor but very important details. The semblance of a team appearing before my own two eyes that I can pin some much longed for faith in and belief. It has been a long time coming.

 

How anyone cannot be impressed thus far is beyond me and how anyone can linger on the negatives when there are so so many positives, is also baffling.

 

I personally haven't been this happy or optimistic for Newcastle in years and I'm damned if some superficial or minor critiques are going to damper my spirits

[Guest RodrigoPalacio]

The trouble with this club - When theres a change, we expect success far too soon.

[Guest Knightrider]

Going back to creativity, we most certainly do lack it within the side, but that's not because we lack a specialist playmaker as many are crying about as something we need to buy but because we have very few players in the team who can carry the ball and run at defences which opens up space and stretches games, the breeding ground if you like for all creativity. By playing Zoggy wide and Milner right, in front of strong attacking full-backs, and introducing Barton to the centre, while having a focal point up front (a fit Viduka) that will all change and when it does, we will see a far more creative team regardless of whether we have a playmaker as such or not.

[Guest RodrigoPalacio]

I basically think that Sam plays his teams to their strengths, rather than try and make them do something they are unable to do, ie. Bolton were unable to play like Brazil, therefore they played like a bunch of tanks, bulldozing their oponents, as that was the most effective way for them to achieve results.  I feel that with the likes of Geremi, Butt and Smith in the middle, the team plays the way it does because they are 3 players who are simply unable to skin someone and then play an amazing through pass to the forwards.  They are all physical players, therefore, we play a physical, simple (and boring at times) game.  It'll be different when/if we we have Duff, Emre, N'Zog, Barton to an extent or Pattison (/joke) in the middle, as they are more forward going and skillfull.

 

Anyway, how can you complain with the start we've had?

[Parky]

I basically think that Sam plays his teams to their strengths, rather than try and make them do something they are unable to do, ie. Bolton were unable to play like Brazil, therefore they played like a bunch of tanks, bulldozing their oponents, as that was the most effective way for them to achieve results.  I feel that with the likes of Geremi, Butt and Smith in the middle, the team plays the way it does because they are 3 players who are simply unable to skin someone and then play an amazing through pass to the forwards.  They are all physical players, therefore, we play a physical, simple (and boring at times) game.  It'll be different when/if we we have Duff, Emre, N'Zog, Barton to an extent or Pattison (/joke) in the middle, as they are more forward going and skillfull.

 

Anyway, how can you complain with the start we've had?

 

You need a haircut.

[KaKa]

I can't believe people are still going on about Spurs recovering! If you mean to finish between 10th and 14th then I agree, but they will not be getting anywhere near the European places.

 

The funny thing is that I felt this way even before all the drama there kicked off, and that has only made the situation worse. The quality of all the premiership teams suddenly rose this summer and they just stood still and effectively made themselves worse by forcing the Bent purchase, which has totally messed with their chemistry upfront.

 

Arsenal, Man U, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City, Villa, Everton, Blackburn and Newcastle are all better teams on the whole. West Ham too when everyone is fit for them.

 

Spurs will likely finish 11th or 12th this season.

[Baggio]

Going back to creativity, we most certainly do lack it within the side, but that's not because we lack a specialist playmaker as many are crying about as something we need to buy but because we have very few players in the team who can carry the ball and run at defences which opens up space and stretches games, the breeding ground if you like for all creativity. By playing Zoggy wide and Milner right, in front of strong attacking full-backs, and introducing Barton to the centre, while having a focal point up front (a fit Viduka) that will all change and when it does, we will see a far more creative team regardless of whether we have a playmaker as such or not.

 

I've only been saying that for the past 2 years, Milner isn't the answer either as he's average.

 

The base of our team looks pretty good on paper, add Barton to that and Enrique at left back and I think we'll see a dramatic improvement in our ability to bring the ball forward, I'm still not convinced by any centre back partnership I've seen so far, I'd look to bring in a better, quicker right winger in January and see where that takes us come the end of the season.

[ChezGiven]

I expect us to play well against the top sides because of the system Allardyce is trying to instill. Thats the whole point about using 4-3-3 isnt it? I dont expect us to be that creative away from home against the top 4 but the way in which he wants the side to play should mean we pick up more points against them. The creativity and style required to dispense the smaller clubs (given the quality of our players) will come when they get used to each other.

[toptoon]

Re: game tonight for example.

 

Must admit since Arsenal are playing with their kids, imo its the perfect oppourtunity to hit them hard with the best 442 team (well left) available to us (see my sig bellow imo). That could well result in a fantastic thriller of a match! They probably woulden't expect us to do this either and we could catch them offguard and pull off a surprise win, especially since its against inexperienced youngsters.

 

However  i agree SA will probably want to try to nulify their game, frustrate the hell out of them, drag them down into the gutter with us and try to nick a goal and defend it. Its not always the prettyest fotball but the man seems to know how to get  results (as our league position proves)  and thats all really that maters!

 

As i said I hope for the 442 in my sig but expect more of a bruising midfield:

 

                Given

 

Beye?  Taylor Roze  Enrique

 

  Smith  Butt/Faye  Geremi

 

  Martins   Ameobi   Zoggy

[Guest Knightrider]

Going back to creativity, we most certainly do lack it within the side, but that's not because we lack a specialist playmaker as many are crying about as something we need to buy but because we have very few players in the team who can carry the ball and run at defences which opens up space and stretches games, the breeding ground if you like for all creativity. By playing Zoggy wide and Milner right, in front of strong attacking full-backs, and introducing Barton to the centre, while having a focal point up front (a fit Viduka) that will all change and when it does, we will see a far more creative team regardless of whether we have a playmaker as such or not.

 

I've only been saying that for the past 2 years, Milner isn't the answer either as he's average.

 

The base of our team looks pretty good on paper, add Barton to that and Enrique at left back and I think we'll see a dramatic improvement in our ability to bring the ball forward, I'm still not convinced by any centre back partnership I've seen so far, I'd look to bring in a better, quicker right winger in January and see where that takes us come the end of the season.

 

I don't think we need a right winger per se, more a right sided forward, someone in the mould of Diouf who can play as a winger if need be. Despite fluctuations between formations I still think Sam will go with 4-3-3 eventually, so he'll no doubt be looking for the kind of players who can not only play in that system but who can also play in other systems such as 4-4-2.

 

The more I think about it quite a large chunk of the teamsheet needs torn up (eventually) which I think will happen, beginning in January.

 

The casualties at the club will be those who can't play in a 4-3-3 or who are too injury prone and this may include Owen and Martins.

 

Personally I'd gladly swap those two for Diouf and Anelka for example, despite rating the pair and understanding how important they are to us at this moment in time. They are not the most effective players though and kind of need the environment set for them to prosper as opposed to being able to prosper in any environment, i.e. 4-4-2 and 4-3-3.

 

You add players like Diouf and Anelka, quick and powerful ball carrying players who are also intelligent players to our team and my we'd be pretty effective. Then throw in a playmaker...

 

/drools

 

Will happen, eventually, that kind of shaping of the team.

 

Hence why I'm not concerned about our current creative problems. We are scoring goals and winning points so that will do for me as it stands.

[Guest RodrigoPalacio]

I basically think that Sam plays his teams to their strengths, rather than try and make them do something they are unable to do, ie. Bolton were unable to play like Brazil, therefore they played like a bunch of tanks, bulldozing their oponents, as that was the most effective way for them to achieve results.  I feel that with the likes of Geremi, Butt and Smith in the middle, the team plays the way it does because they are 3 players who are simply unable to skin someone and then play an amazing through pass to the forwards.  They are all physical players, therefore, we play a physical, simple (and boring at times) game.  It'll be different when/if we we have Duff, Emre, N'Zog, Barton to an extent or Pattison (/joke) in the middle, as they are more forward going and skillfull.

 

Anyway, how can you complain with the start we've had?

 

You need a haircut.

 

Aye, that fucking fringe....

[Guest Phil K]

First time we've played a "big" team, and they were found out big time.

Pitiful.

But we're used to crap, being Newcastle fans arent we ?

Same old, same old....

 

 

I personally haven't been this happy or optimistic for Newcastle in years and I'm damned if some superficial or minor critiques are going to damper my spirits

 

Good for you, mate.

[hakka]

The PL is where you get found out.

 

Not only if your side aren't committed and organised (they weren't) but also for the newcomers Cacapa and Roze. This was the first match a side has really had a proper crack at our center backs albeit a poor side like Derby. It was like watching virgin sailors in a force 9. The CB's were dominated  and rattled time after time...They now know what the PL is all about, if other sides sense a weakness or lack of desire they will get amongst you especially the poorer sides.

 

For all his obsession with a defensive looking midfield and Alan Smith wasted on the right and the purchase of yet another Dm in Faye, the creative and attacking side of our game has withered, in all seriousness teams like Derby will get flattenend by our supposed close rivals ie Spurs, Villa and Everton.

 

SA has set about rebuilding from the back and it was needed yet he let Dyer and Solano go without a creative or winger replacement. Zoggy ranging upfield in desperation at the malaise of sideways passing instigated by Butt and Geremi and in the middle of it all Owen looking like a lost schoolboy.

 

The ball was again too often pumped to Milner without the midfield moving up and supporting the strikers....Martins pushed out wider and wider to get the ball or get space as he was surrounded by 3 def in the middle...None of our midfield pushed on, normally instinctive situations and responses of players strangely lacking...Once they felt the heat Derby were putting out there was strangely no reply, we had no guvnor, no one with authority in the middle, Barton won't bring that either...We seem to have an excess of tacklers who want to give it to another player and quickly...Butt even looked ball shy at some points.

 

We look hard to beat?

 

We'll soon look like we can't win a game.

 

There is something about SA's vision which on the playing side - on the pitch is a bit flat. And all his talk about the backroom staff and new methods will soon be forgotten if he doesn't grow some balls and not hide behind this safety first bullshit.

 

Hmm... think this is a bit premature.  6 games man, not like it's been a season and its still like this with Big Sam.  I think our defence is much better than last year.  Last year Taylor was the only defender that we could rely on.  He still made mistakes, but Babayaro, Carr, Bramble, Gooch etc... all made many more.  This year we have Beye, who looks dangerous and strong.  We have Cacapa, an experienced defender who has had hardly any time to adapt to the league yet and could be a solid reliable defender for us. We have Enrique, who has a good rep after only 1 season with Sevilla and he's looked ok from what little has been seen of him at SJP.  Rozenhal looks brilliant, he's adapted and looked so very calm at the back.  Last year, if a defender was injured a kid was put in his place. We were exposed through poor 1st team mistakes and inexperienced replacements.  We now have 4 (5 if you count Geremi) new defenders who are probably better than all the first team defenders of last year collectively. I expect us to concede less goals than we did last season as this defence will improve the more they play together. 

 

We are missing a fit Duff and Barton.  Plus Emre has not been on form or made the 1st team lineup. Those three players have the ability to create stuff going forward, we are looking to Milner way to much.  Dyer had to go, I'm sure we would have had another half arsed and injury ridden season off him knowing our luck.  Solano wanted to go and I think given the great player he has been for us that we should honour his wishes out of respect. He gave us a lot for a snip £2.5 million, well done to Dalglish there. (was it £4.5 million in total after Villa? Bah Robson should have never sold him). 

 

I hope we continue to use 4-4-2 and play Enrique at left back and put N'Zogbia on the left wing every game.  If Enrique doesn't settle and starts to lose form we can always revert back, but in the Villa game we seemed far more dangerous knowing that N'Zogbia could release one side with a mazy run or Milner will work his way up the right and come off with a decent cross. 

 

Been disappointed with Smith.  He's done ok, shown commitment and determination, but I was really hoping to see a goal by now or some better involvement in build ups going forward.  Given time I'm sure he will display better form, fingers crossed its soon.

 

Martin's seems to be suffering awful bad luck and low confidence in front of goal.  Seen a number of chances he should have buried but it’s not happened.  Can't write the lad off, he's scored 3 already and there's plenty more games and goals to come from him I'm sure. 

 

Viduka is brilliant player for us.  He can beat any team when he is on top of his game, and having a player of that ability about for when Martin's and Owen both get injured (hope that doesnt' happen!!!) is amazing, as I have zero confidence in Ameobi leading the line.  I really believe Viduka's goals and creativity will be the key to getting 6th or better.  If Owen can stay fit even more chance.  Time will tell...

 

[Keefaz]

I'd like to see a separate thread called What Allardyce Should've Done. We can print it out and send it to Big Sam in January and he can learn from us all.

[hakka]

I'd like to see a separate thread called What Allardyce Should've Done. We can print it out and send it to Big Sam in January and he can learn from us all.

 

Start one then!

 

I will pay for the stamp.

[Slugsy]

I'd like to know if Smith will ever be dropped or put up front properly as he is gash as a midfielder!

[Parky]

The PL is where you get found out.

 

Not only if your side aren't committed and organised (they weren't) but also for the newcomers Cacapa and Roze. This was the first match a side has really had a proper crack at our center backs albeit a poor side like Derby. It was like watching virgin sailors in a force 9. The CB's were dominated  and rattled time after time...They now know what the PL is all about, if other sides sense a weakness or lack of desire they will get amongst you especially the poorer sides.

 

For all his obsession with a defensive looking midfield and Alan Smith wasted on the right and the purchase of yet another Dm in Faye, the creative and attacking side of our game has withered, in all seriousness teams like Derby will get flattenend by our supposed close rivals ie Spurs, Villa and Everton.

 

SA has set about rebuilding from the back and it was needed yet he let Dyer and Solano go without a creative or winger replacement. Zoggy ranging upfield in desperation at the malaise of sideways passing instigated by Butt and Geremi and in the middle of it all Owen looking like a lost schoolboy.

 

The ball was again too often pumped to Milner without the midfield moving up and supporting the strikers....Martins pushed out wider and wider to get the ball or get space as he was surrounded by 3 def in the middle...None of our midfield pushed on, normally instinctive situations and responses of players strangely lacking...Once they felt the heat Derby were putting out there was strangely no reply, we had no guvnor, no one with authority in the middle, Barton won't bring that either...We seem to have an excess of tacklers who want to give it to another player and quickly...Butt even looked ball shy at some points.

 

We look hard to beat?

 

We'll soon look like we can't win a game.

 

There is something about SA's vision which on the playing side - on the pitch is a bit flat. And all his talk about the backroom staff and new methods will soon be forgotten if he doesn't grow some balls and not hide behind this safety first bullshit.

 

Hmm... think this is a bit premature.  6 games man, not like it's been a season and its still like this with Big Sam.  I think our defence is much better than last year.  Last year Taylor was the only defender that we could rely on.  He still made mistakes, but Babayaro, Carr, Bramble, Gooch etc... all made many more.  This year we have Beye, who looks dangerous and strong.  We have Cacapa, an experienced defender who has had hardly any time to adapt to the league yet and could be a solid reliable defender for us. We have Enrique, who has a good rep after only 1 season with Sevilla and he's looked ok from what little has been seen of him at SJP.  Rozenhal looks brilliant, he's adapted and looked so very calm at the back.  Last year, if a defender was injured a kid was put in his place. We were exposed through poor 1st team mistakes and inexperienced replacements.  We now have 4 (5 if you count Geremi) new defenders who are probably better than all the first team defenders of last year collectively. I expect us to concede less goals than we did last season as this defence will improve the more they play together. 

 

We are missing a fit Duff and Barton.  Plus Emre has not been on form or made the 1st team lineup. Those three players have the ability to create stuff going forward, we are looking to Milner way to much.  Dyer had to go, I'm sure we would have had another half arsed and injury ridden season off him knowing our luck.  Solano wanted to go and I think given the great player he has been for us that we should honour his wishes out of respect. He gave us a lot for a snip £2.5 million, well done to Dalglish there. (was it £4.5 million in total after Villa? Bah Robson should have never sold him). 

 

I hope we continue to use 4-4-2 and play Enrique at left back and put N'Zogbia on the left wing every game.  If Enrique doesn't settle and starts to lose form we can always revert back, but in the Villa game we seemed far more dangerous knowing that N'Zogbia could release one side with a mazy run or Milner will work his way up the right and come off with a decent cross. 

 

Been disappointed with Smith.  He's done ok, shown commitment and determination, but I was really hoping to see a goal by now or some better involvement in build ups going forward.  Given time I'm sure he will display better form, fingers crossed its soon.

 

Martin's seems to be suffering awful bad luck and low confidence in front of goal.  Seen a number of chances he should have buried but it?s not happened.  Can't write the lad off, he's scored 3 already and there's plenty more games and goals to come from him I'm sure. 

 

Viduka is brilliant player for us.  He can beat any team when he is on top of his game, and having a player of that ability about for when Martin's and Owen both get injured (hope that doesnt' happen!!!) is amazing, as I have zero confidence in Ameobi leading the line.  I really believe Viduka's goals and creativity will be the key to getting 6th or better.  If Owen can stay fit even more chance.  Time will tell...

 

 

Actually the first thing I'd do in Jan is get rid of Emre and Duff and get two younger and fitter players in. We need players who will guarantee 30/40 games a season so the team can gel.

 

I would also look to offload Martins and get someone like Anelka or a Babel type player who can run with the ball, drift wide and recyle in to link with the midfield especially when Barton is back.

 

I would keep Owen. He scores goals basically and I have the feeling after the new operation his fitness saga will end and we should get more games out of him.

[Decky]

But we thought that when he came back from his knee injury and low and behold, hes out again

[ChezGiven]

We need more talented footballers.

[stozo]

We need more talented footballers.

More talented Central Midfielders and a striker to replace Amoebi would improve us greatly.

[Parky]

We need more talented footballers.

More talented Central Midfielders and a striker to replace Amoebi would improve us greatly.

 

He doesn't seem to want to give up this defensive platform of Butt/Geremi/ and often Smith roped in.

 

More proof today that we are creating very little due to this.

[Shak]

We need more talented footballers.

More talented Central Midfielders and a striker to replace Amoebi would improve us greatly.

 

He doesn't seem to want to give up this defensive platform of Butt/Geremi/ and often Smith roped in.

 

More proof today that we are creating very little due to this.

 

It's worrying alright, especially as N'Zogbia or Milner could have been used through the middle to be a bit more aggressive.

 

I'm hoping when they're both back and fully fit he gives Emre and Barton a chance to play together in midfield, those two have much more potantial to create something from there, and their styles should mesh well.