A more positive view, post Derby

[Guest Knightrider]

The time to really judge this team and the new manager is when it's at it's strongest, when it has taken on the form in which the manager intends to stick with. At the moment that is impossible due to injuries and so forth but mark my words when we have a settled back-four with proper full-backs at either flank, see Barton in the centre with N'Zogbia moved further forward and a fitter and more sharper Viduka through the middle, we'll be in much better shape. Then we will see the team take some shape, form and direction, especially performance wise. If the manager can field the basics of his desired starting 11 with the key players on a more consistent basis, we'll be OK come May.

 

Despite the team clearly not being at it's strongest by any stretch of the imagination, we're 3 points off 3rd place, with a game in hand. Performance wise the start to the season hasn't been anything to write home about but points wise and position wise, we have had a good a start, by our standards anyway.

 

The Derby performance was shocking but the anti-thesis of a Big Sam performance. Lack of effort and commitment, sloppy defending, not taking any chances, not creating any chances and basically being bullied by a lightweight opposition. If anyone here thinks this is going to be the norm they need their heads examined. It won't be.

 

We will improve, but people have to accept this will be a gradual thing and a long hard slog.

[Elliottman]

i think everyone over reacted after the Derby game anyway to be honest. Anyone thinking we would go down to a team already fighting for its life and walk all over them were mistaken.

 

We've played 5 games under the new regime, in which we were unbeaten in 4. Did people forget the last 2 years and a half years? What did people expect? ecome a top 6 team overnight? Dont think so.

 

So it didnt actually take me long to stay positive and look forward to Sundays game.

[McCormick]

im assuming negative views are unwelcome here

[M4]

I think we have every right to be disapointed, even angry about the way we lost to Derby. Team selection especially is very worrying from Sam. Even for a team "in the making" or "gradually getting there" which we are, it was as if right from the start we were deliberately putting extra hurdles out there for us to jump over.

 

You have to mirror that result with the Villa home game. We could have won that, but at the same time it was a performance from a team far from being a finished article it was disappointing, yet there were plenty of positives... Can't really see much positive to take at all from Monday night.

 

Just a question of forgetting it and thinking of the next game. I hope Sam doesnt forget though, and adjusts some of his tactics accordingly.

[Elliottman]

I think we have every right to be disapointed, even angry about the way we lost to Derby. Team selection especially is very worrying from Sam. Even for a team "in the making" or "gradually getting there" which we are, it was as if right from the start we were deliberately putting extra hurdles out there for us to jump over.

 

You have to mirror that result with the Villa home game. We could have won that, but at the same time it was a performance from a team far from being a finished article... Can't really see much positive to take at all from Monday night.

 

however tanked Bolton away, dominated the Wigan game and should have won the Smog game too. Come on man, get a grip. Its a brand new team with loads of new players. Things dont happen over nnight, no matter how short sighted you are.

[M4]

I think we have every right to be disapointed, even angry about the way we lost to Derby. Team selection especially is very worrying from Sam. Even for a team "in the making" or "gradually getting there" which we are, it was as if right from the start we were deliberately putting extra hurdles out there for us to jump over.

 

You have to mirror that result with the Villa home game. We could have won that, but at the same time it was a performance from a team far from being a finished article... Can't really see much positive to take at all from Monday night.

 

however tanked Bolton away, dominated the Wigan game and should have won the Smog game too. Come on man, get a grip. Its a brand new team with loads of new players. Things dont happen over nnight, no matter how short sighted you are.

 

aye, and it was great to watch the efforts from the Wigan game all go to waste.

[Guest Shibby]

It's amazing how poeple are always coming up with excuses to appease themselves.

 

Or are you people just in denial? Life must be good for you.

[Kev]

i will judge big sam after xmas

one game we must win is the mackems away though, no matter what we must win!

i can face us getting beat off more poor sides at home and away once in a while but he has brought good players in, once they are settled and his best starting 11 is back good times will start to occur! HOPEFULLY ANYWAY  

[Baggio]

*Bizarre tactics

*Playing players out of position

*Signing grafters instead of creativity or pace

*Using injuries as an excuse already

 

If he gives us something to be positive about then I'll happily give him the credit, I won't be licking his arse when he's serving up shit like he did Monday night though.

[Guest Knightrider]

It's amazing how poeple are always coming up with excuses to appease themselves.

 

Or are you people just in denial? Life must be good for you.

 

Denial of what? That our performances have been decidedly average, our tactics and team lineups contentious and that our team lacks pace, width and creativity? Much less that these performances are simply not and never will be good enough?

 

I myself am fully aware of every issue and problem that exists at current, but unlike some I'm not bashing the manager or team, nor panicking and making rash, ill-timed and knee-jerk reactions that smack of nothing but sheer fickleness given we are ONLy 5 games in to a whole new regieme that actually, points wise and league position wise, is looking pretty damn good from where I'm sitting, in spite of our poor performances and no real team semblence.

 

It has got to the point where people are now in a totally negative frame of mind they are now looking for any excuse to nit pick, have a go or criticise and write off the new man, the new team and new players, or are just waiting for the next hiccup so they can get back to pissing and moaning.

 

Well sorry but the attitude on here stinks.

 

We all got what we wished for this summer (except Parky ) but still people find something to maon about.

 

I wouldn't mind if these things were being written if that was the final game of a awful season but it's the 5th game of a new campaign, one in which we've started not to shabby and one that can only get better.

 

Fucking cheer up people and look on the bright side for once.

[Yorkie]

Just watch us paste West Ham now.

[ohmelads]

I agree it's too easy to make any big statements when half a dozen players possible first-teamers are yet to make their first starts under Allardyce (Beye, Faye, Enrique, Duff, Emre, Barton) and those who have played have only a few hours of competitive football together.

 

However, pointing to the league table after half a dozen games seems like you're trying to pull the wool over people's eyes a bit, HTT. We all know we've had an easy run yet we find ourselves in 10th and a game in hand is only worth what you make of it. Following the Derby result and performance and taking into account the good and the bad that we've seen so far, I think it's been a distinctly average start.

 

There's a real sense that the serious business starts now, with games against the revitalised West Ham and Man City, as well as Tottenham, Arsenal and Everton all to come in the next few weeks. And even after that lot, we still won't have faced any of the 'big four' in the league. After those games we'll have a much better idea of just how far we've come and how far we have to go.

[Dave]

Losing the unbeaten tag to shite like Derby should only do us good tbh.

[Guest Knightrider]

*Bizarre tactics

*Playing players out of position

*Signing grafters instead of creativity or pace

*Using injuries as an excuse already

 

You could be talking about any manager there Baggio.

 

Regarding signings: You forget he had to rebuild an entire defence and contend with the prospect of losing his two big name big money star strikers, hence the signing of two forwards, where as Barton for all we know could be the creative spark. And you don't get many playmakers with a net spend of what is it, 11m or something? Not when you have a whole new defence to buy. Be realistic man.

 

Don't be fooled by injury excuses either, I mean do you honestly think Allardyce considers injuries were to blame for the Derby display and result? His video and statistical data doesn't allow for those kind of excuses never mind anything else. I mean he's not going to rip into his team live to the media is he? And it isn't as if he didn't say that was a bad performance and that we must improve. Using meaningless quotes against the manager really is scraping the barrel, but then you've been in this negative and hyper critical mood all summer.

[Guest Knightrider]

However, pointing to the league table after half a dozen games seems like you're trying to pull the wool over people's eyes a bit, HTT.

 

I'm not honestly. I pay no real attention to the table at this early stage. Merely pointing out that we are in a good position in the league despite the poor performances and lack of real team semblance. I.e. it's far too early to be writing the season off which some are doing.

[Baggio]

It's amazing how poeple are always coming up with excuses to appease themselves.

 

Or are you people just in denial? Life must be good for you.

 

Denial of what? That our performances have been decidedly average, our tactics and team lineups contentious and that our team lacks pace, width and creativity? Much less that these performances are simply not and never will be good enough?

 

I myself am fully aware of every issue and problem that exists at current, but unlike some I'm not bashing the manager or team, nor panicking and making rash, ill-timed and knee-jerk reactions that smack of nothing but sheer fickleness given we are ONLy 5 games in to a whole new regieme that actually, points wise and league position wise, is looking pretty damn good from where I'm sitting, in spite of our poor performances and no real team semblence.

 

It has got to the point where people are now in a totally negative frame of mind they are now looking for any excuse to nit pick, have a go or criticise and write off the new man, the new team and new players, or are just waiting for the next hiccup so they can get back to pissing and moaning.

 

Well sorry but the attitude on here stinks.

 

We all got what we wished for this summer (except Parky ) but still people find something to maon about.

 

I wouldn't mind if these things were being written if that was the final game of a awful season but it's the 5th game of a new campaign, one in which we've started not to shabby and one that can only get better.

 

Fucking cheer up people and look on the bright side for once.

 

So you agree with all of the concerns people have mentioned yet you think they're kneejerkers for airing them?

 

People on here have pointed out all summer the need for the team to have pace and creativity, it's not something new that we've only realised we're missing, shame Allardyce himself couldn't see it.

 

8 points is hardly a great return from the teams we've played either, Bolton are bottom of the league while Wigan, Derby and Boro were all tipped for relegation, Villa are a decent midtable team but we should still be looking to beat them.

 

Things will be more clear after our next 4 league games which are against teams who should be challenging us for a European place, luckily for us 3 of them are at home.

[Guest Knightrider]

Getting back to the team, just look at Man Utd and how they've struggled with one or two of their key players missing.

 

Barton is a huge player for us, the link between midfield and attack, who will get into the box and make runs, i.e. take pressure off the forwards and give them some much needed support. Viduka is clearly unfit but when he is fit he's a big game player, someone who will be important to the team. He will be the creative forward if you like.

 

I think what the manager is doing while these players are missing is setting out a stall to pick up as many points and clean sheets as possible to give us a good platform to build from when the season really does start shaping up which is in the coming weeks. We've kind of done that and during that process he will have learned a few things about his players and the team lineup/system/tactics.

 

It would be patronising to even consider that the manager won't make the changes if he has to or can't see what we are all seeing, much less provide an answer. This is the man that uses stats to see how hard his team have worked as a team and as individuals in a game, to see how many chances we've created and where from, to see how many chances the opposition have and where from, using each to tailor his tactics and such.

 

It won't be fatigue that came out of the Derby match, regardless of what he said, it will be a lack of commitment, a lack of spirit, poor ball retention, lack of chances created, too many giving away at our end, too many players not picking up the first and second ball, poor set pieces, poor everything.

 

And he'll put it right, and so will the players.

 

I mean they can't individually or collectively play as bad as that again surely. If they do I can't see many lasting this regime. Maybe that won't be a bad thing...

[Yorkie]

Starting to think more and more that Barton is the person that will change things, in all honesty. I've said that several times since the Derby game. I can't wait for him to get back playing.

[Dave]

Starting to think more and more that Barton is the person that will change things, in all honesty. I've said that several times since the Derby game. I can't wait for him to get back playing.

 

Don't get your hopes up too high.

 

That is not to put a downer on Barton, who I rate, but more a general point.

[Guest Knightrider]

It's amazing how poeple are always coming up with excuses to appease themselves.

 

Or are you people just in denial? Life must be good for you.

 

Denial of what? That our performances have been decidedly average, our tactics and team lineups contentious and that our team lacks pace, width and creativity? Much less that these performances are simply not and never will be good enough?

 

I myself am fully aware of every issue and problem that exists at current, but unlike some I'm not bashing the manager or team, nor panicking and making rash, ill-timed and knee-jerk reactions that smack of nothing but sheer fickleness given we are ONLy 5 games in to a whole new regieme that actually, points wise and league position wise, is looking pretty damn good from where I'm sitting, in spite of our poor performances and no real team semblence.

 

It has got to the point where people are now in a totally negative frame of mind they are now looking for any excuse to nit pick, have a go or criticise and write off the new man, the new team and new players, or are just waiting for the next hiccup so they can get back to pissing and moaning.

 

Well sorry but the attitude on here stinks.

 

We all got what we wished for this summer (except Parky ) but still people find something to maon about.

 

I wouldn't mind if these things were being written if that was the final game of a awful season but it's the 5th game of a new campaign, one in which we've started not to shabby and one that can only get better.

 

Fucking cheer up people and look on the bright side for once.

 

So you agree with all of the concerns people have mentioned yet you think they're kneejerkers for airing them?

 

People on here have pointed out all summer the need for the team to have pace and creativity, it's not something new that we've only realised we're missing, shame Allardyce himself couldn't see it.

 

8 points is hardly a great return from the teams we've played either, Bolton are bottom of the league while Wigan, Derby and Boro were all tipped for relegation, Villa are a decent midtable team but we should still be looking to beat them.

 

Things will be more clear after our next 4 league games which are against teams who should be challenging us for a European place, luckily for us 3 of them are at home.

 

My beef isn't with people mentioning these things, my beef is with the cynicism, the criticism and the knee-jerking and down right negativity.

 

"shame the manager can't see it"

 

Things like that. Give your head a shake man, of course he can see we aren't creating enough, fuck me this is a man big on stats, he only needs to check the BBC to see this, he doesn't even need to use Prozone.

 

As for beating teams, we will go into every game looking to either draw or win, like every self respecting manager.

 

A point at Derby may seem like the end of the world to the cretins on here but a point is a point.

 

Anyway I seriously doubt he went into that match to get a draw, he's a greedy bastard and will have wanted all 3 points. Wanting and achieving are two different things though and when the prospect of defeat comes into the equation which is has to whenever you prepare for a football match, you have to be balanced about things. Want three points, accept 1, try and get 3, if not hold out for a point. DON'T LOSE.

[brummie]

Villa are a decent midtable team but we should still be looking to beat them.

 

Isn't this the point though, looking at last year's table, Newcastle and Villa were exactly the same things, mid table sides.

 

Mid table sides looking to improve, admittedly, but you're not going to suddenly start playing like a top six team, because you're not a top six team. Not yet.

 

Unfortunately, clubs like Newcastle, Villa, City, West Ham, Blackburn, Spurs, Everton are playing in a crowded area, they all want to be top six, and they all think they should be. At each one of those clubs there will be much pressing of panic buttons this season, look at Spurs for a start. Our lot are doing it now after losing to City and looking shit last week.

 

Forget about this result, look forward.

[Guest Knightrider]

Starting to think more and more that Barton is the person that will change things, in all honesty. I've said that several times since the Derby game. I can't wait for him to get back playing.

 

Don't get your hopes up too high.

 

That is not to put a downer on Barton, who I rate, but more a general point.

 

Agreed. His entire game will or should help us no end though and you can see we are crying out for such a player. His return can't come quick enough and I'm excited at the prospect of seeing what he can do and how he can influence the team to better things. That goes for all the missing bodies.

[Baggio]

*Bizarre tactics

*Playing players out of position

*Signing grafters instead of creativity or pace

*Using injuries as an excuse already

 

You could be talking about any manager there Baggio.

 

Regarding signings: You forget he had to rebuild an entire defence and contend with the prospect of losing his two big name big money star strikers, hence the signing of two forwards, where as Barton for all we know could be the creative spark. And you don't get many playmakers with a net spend of what is it, 11m or something? Not when you have a whole new defence to buy. Be realistic man.

 

Don't be fooled by injury excuses either, I mean do you honestly think Allardyce considers injuries were to blame for the Derby display and result? His video and statistical data doesn't allow for those kind of excuses never mind anything else. I mean he's not going to rip into his team live to the media is he? And it isn't as if he didn't say that was a bad performance and that we must improve. Using meaningless quotes against the manager really is scraping the barrel, but then you've been in this negative and hyper critical mood all summer.

 

Stop trying to deflect the criticism of Allardyce onto me by saying I've been in a negative mood all Summer, the fact is he has used injuries as an excuse so why make out you know whats going on behind the scenes?

 

As for not signing creative players, they don't have to be the best players in the World you know, as I've said it was so obvious what we needed yet he chose to blow £6 million on Alan Smith instead, is he really that stupid that he considers the bloke to be a midfielder? Shocking signing with money that should have been used to sign someone with pace who can stretch games.

 

You're making excuses for the bloke because you've backed him all the way, fair play to you for that but don't insult the intelligence of the posters on here by trying to pull the wool over their eyes with bullshit.

[Guest Magic]

The time to really judge this team and the new manager is when it's at it's strongest, when it has taken on the form in which the manager intends to stick with.

I've always liked the Navratilova quote:

 

"The mark of great sportsmen is not how good they are at their best, but how good they are their worst."

 

We were pretty fucking bad against Derby. I don't want to knock BS too much, I'm fully in support of his management, I think his approach will do a lot of good for the whole Newcastle organisation, but that doesn't mean he or the players should be immune from criticism. We were absolutely shocking on Monday. We deserved to lose against a team we really should have beaten.

 

I think Sam was far too defensive. As far as I can see Smith has done nothing much for us so far. He's a useful squad player IMO but I would have pushed Le Zog onto the left wing and played Enrique or Beye at fullback.  Also Martins should have started instead of Shola. I don't think we have to have a little man, big man up front, and I'd like to see Oba and Mickey given a shot together. We should have gone out looking to attack and dominate. We shouldn't have gone out looking to play typical grafting away team tactics against Derby. That's where I think Sam went wrong. We had no creativity in the team. Aside from Milner I struggle to name a player in an attacking position who was really capable of making something from nothing.

 

I do get your point though that it is far too early to be dismiss the current regime. It all needs time and Sam still has my full support. Besides, it's not just his fault; the players were awful and even more to blame than Big Sam. Here's hoping for a positive response against W*** H** (as the Hayes programme would spell it).

[Yorkie]

Starting to think more and more that Barton is the person that will change things, in all honesty. I've said that several times since the Derby game. I can't wait for him to get back playing.

 

Don't get your hopes up too high.

 

That is not to put a downer on Barton, who I rate, but more a general point.

 

Call my cynical/ignorant/whatever, but if that's not a put-down on Barton, what is it?