Forward Thinking Back Room Approach/ Technology = Sunday Pub Team Tactics

[Guest Knightrider]

We didn't really buy any flair in the transfer window and sold our most technically gifted player in Solano, so these tactics were to be expected.

 

It does concern me that all of Sam's signings point towards a Bolton style of football. Sam took Bolton a long way using those tactics, they are tactics suited to underdogs who lack the technical ability of their rivals but make up for it with a physical advantage. People thought to themselves that if Sam can take Bolton to 5th, imagine what he can achieve with a bigger club and the financial muscle and ability to attract players that comes with all that. But the big question was always whether or not he was capable or willing to move away from those small club underdog tactics and build a team that, technically, can ever go toe to toe with the big boys.

 

The next couple of transfer windows should answer that question. While Sam points to a few flair players he's bought in his time, what he doesn't tell you is that they were the only flair players he ever really bought. I hope that he was just putting the foundations in place this summer, but it's a bit worrying that no technical flair players were brought in at all and the emphasis seems to be on height, physique, workrate, attitude and experience far more than technical ability. Yesterday we were dumped out of the cup by a side with a far more technical and youthful emphasis and if we ever want to be among the big sides we will need to go toe to toe with them technically. It's true that Chelsea and Liverpool's tactics under Mourinho and Benitez were not so different to Bolton in terms of team shape but they were far more gifted technically and could string together a lot of successive passes and dominate possession.

 

We've got a squad in place now and there seems to be money available, there's no excuse for failing to invest in younger and more technical players in the next couple of transfer windows. Time will tell if Allardyce only intends to pursue this Bolton mk II route or whether he brings in the players to take us up a level. It'll all take time to achieve, but to see no flair players at all coming in when we already lacked them does raise eyebrows. Hopefully Mort meant what he said when he talked about buying younger players.

 

Sorry but we play nothing like how Bolton did under Big Sam, sadly. Had we, we'd probably be unbeaten and even higher up in the league than we are at the moment. At their best Bolton were a formidable opponent, physically, mentally, tactically, adaptability and even skilfully, especially after Anelka joined them. I watched them tear Arsenal apart last season playing some wonderful quick football on the deck and they often battered sides in the final 3rd, something we haven't done yet, not even against Wigan. We have been and are nothing like Bolton and it's just plain laziness to even compare the two at the moment just because we have their former manager.

 

I'd be delighted if we played like Bolton, delighted. But we don't. There may be signs there that we are trying to be more like they were under Sam, but we're not there by any stretch of the imagination really, more is the pity.

 

I don't get some of the snobbish reaction to Bolton's style under Sam or some of the remarks. Technical footballers? Diouf and Anelka would walk into and transform our side, even Speed, Nolan and Campo in midfield would give us better balance while Davies' mobility and aerial strength would make that ball stick for certain.

 

Bolton mk2? I wish. We'd never have lost to Derby and would probably still be in the League Cup or wouldn't have rolled over liked we did.

 

We don't lack technical players either, we simply lack a greater understanding, which is pretty obvious and to be expected. Not many new sides can simply start playing football from the off. Ball retention and technical football can only come from a comfortable level of understanding and communication. Takes a lot longer than 6 or 7 games for that to happen though.

 

Btw Arsenal's kids have played more games together than our lads have...

[Rich]

Are people forgetting how we played under Souness and Roeder here, or something?

 

I know we haven't been the third coming of the entertainers under Allardyce so far - nowhere near in fact - but there have been visible improvements in many, many areas of our football since the new manager has come in.

 

As with everything else the style of play will improve given time. Easier said than done, of course.

[nufcjmc]

Are people forgetting how we played under Souness and Roeder here, or something?

 

I know we haven't been the third coming of the entertainers under Allardyce so far - nowhere near in fact - but there have been visible improvements in many, many areas of our football since the new manager has come in.

 

As with everything else the style of play will improve given time. Easier said than done, of course.

 

I think what makes me feel good more than the last two ( I know I could pick a long list) but I really dont look at any team and fear getting a hammering off anyone, yes we will loose games but with souey and rodent I feared a scoreline of 5/6 we were that unorganised/unmotivated/talented in some area's think we need to poll if people what ugly football with regular good results or sharpe entertaining football and being alot more unpredictable

[Guest optimistic nit]

Good points raised by Tsunami, why people can't debate it like a grown up instead of name calling I don't know.

 

such as?

[sicsfingeredmong]

Good points raised by Tsunami, why people can't debate it like a grown up instead of name calling I don't know.

 

I wasn't name calling.  My gripe is that i doubt this thread would have appeared if we had of won last night.  It's not often that i post on here. So from an objective point of view i can see that the week following a win is dominated by mostly positive threads, and following defeat, the opposite.

 

It's funny that a few people at the time, and the still do by the way, proclaim that the club should've started looking to replace Robson within 12 months of our third place finish in 02/03. There were warning signs that Robson had just about hit the end of the road ie. the team's lack of width/creativity & ball retention in comparison with 01/02, and an evident lack of a squad rotation policy which in itself went against the grain of what was a heavy fixture schedule at the time and as a result he ran that particular  first eleven into the ground.

 

In context with the original post and on the basis of what you say - ie. thread positivity/negativity versus previous results & league position - were these people/posters negative thinking muppets?....... and by the way i was one of those mentioned as per the above? It's more like they had the guts and were prepared to say how it was, even if it went against that of a 'position based popular opinion'. Going by the following season i'd say that a few of us were correct re: Robson.

 

 

[Lenny]

 

In context with the original post and on the basis of what you say - ie. thread positivity/negativity versus previous results & league position - were these people/posters negative thinking muppets?....... and by the way i was one of those mentioned as per the above? It's more like they had the guts and were prepared to say how it was, even if it went against that of a 'position based popular opinion'. Going by the following season i'd say that a few of us were correct re: Robson.

 

 

erm.... sorry but I dont agree with that,IMO this past week has been as big a confirmation as your going to get this season that the positive/negative posts are almost completely based on the back of our previous result. We lose to Derby, and the pessimists are crying about how bad our play is, then we beat West Ham and the optimists have their say. We then lose to Arsenal and its the turn of the pessimists again.

 

I dont think having guts has anything to do with it, and there are more than enough doom mongers around for negative thinking not to be considered "popular opinion".

[Tsunami]

I'll say it again; this thread has nothing to do with previous game mentality. If I was affected like that I could have posted after the Villa game.

 

Do people agree with my assessment of the WH game? If so, Sam should be looking to change his shape & tactics. If not then you were watching a different game to me.

 

 

If Sam's 1st half set up/ tactics against WH played his set up/ tactics after 60 mins of the same game I'd take the 2nd half team to beat the 1st half team 8 or 9 times out 10.

 

[danswan]

You cant build a sky scraper without first digging a hole in the ground.

 

Let's save the skyscrapers until after the 'boro home game eh?

[ohmelads]

We didn't really buy any flair in the transfer window and sold our most technically gifted player in Solano, so these tactics were to be expected.

 

It does concern me that all of Sam's signings point towards a Bolton style of football. Sam took Bolton a long way using those tactics, they are tactics suited to underdogs who lack the technical ability of their rivals but make up for it with a physical advantage. People thought to themselves that if Sam can take Bolton to 5th, imagine what he can achieve with a bigger club and the financial muscle and ability to attract players that comes with all that. But the big question was always whether or not he was capable or willing to move away from those small club underdog tactics and build a team that, technically, can ever go toe to toe with the big boys.

 

The next couple of transfer windows should answer that question. While Sam points to a few flair players he's bought in his time, what he doesn't tell you is that they were the only flair players he ever really bought. I hope that he was just putting the foundations in place this summer, but it's a bit worrying that no technical flair players were brought in at all and the emphasis seems to be on height, physique, workrate, attitude and experience far more than technical ability. Yesterday we were dumped out of the cup by a side with a far more technical and youthful emphasis and if we ever want to be among the big sides we will need to go toe to toe with them technically. It's true that Chelsea and Liverpool's tactics under Mourinho and Benitez were not so different to Bolton in terms of team shape but they were far more gifted technically and could string together a lot of successive passes and dominate possession.

 

We've got a squad in place now and there seems to be money available, there's no excuse for failing to invest in younger and more technical players in the next couple of transfer windows. Time will tell if Allardyce only intends to pursue this Bolton mk II route or whether he brings in the players to take us up a level. It'll all take time to achieve, but to see no flair players at all coming in when we already lacked them does raise eyebrows. Hopefully Mort meant what he said when he talked about buying younger players.

 

Sorry but we play nothing like how Bolton did under Big Sam, sadly. Had we, we'd probably be unbeaten and even higher up in the league than we are at the moment. At their best Bolton were a formidable opponent, physically, mentally, tactically, adaptability and even skilfully, especially after Anelka joined them. I watched them tear Arsenal apart last season playing some wonderful quick football on the deck and they often battered sides in the final 3rd, something we haven't done yet, not even against Wigan. We have been and are nothing like Bolton and it's just plain laziness to even compare the two at the moment just because we have their former manager.

 

I'd be delighted if we played like Bolton, delighted. But we don't. There may be signs there that we are trying to be more like they were under Sam, but we're not there by any stretch of the imagination really, more is the pity.

 

I don't get some of the snobbish reaction to Bolton's style under Sam or some of the remarks. Technical footballers? Diouf and Anelka would walk into and transform our side, even Speed, Nolan and Campo in midfield would give us better balance while Davies' mobility and aerial strength would make that ball stick for certain.

 

Bolton mk2? I wish. We'd never have lost to Derby and would probably still be in the League Cup or wouldn't have rolled over liked we did.

 

We don't lack technical players either, we simply lack a greater understanding, which is pretty obvious and to be expected. Not many new sides can simply start playing football from the off. Ball retention and technical football can only come from a comfortable level of understanding and communication. Takes a lot longer than 6 or 7 games for that to happen though.

 

Btw Arsenal's kids have played more games together than our lads have...

 

Allardyce is building his team the way he wants it and when I look at his signings, they all have similar attributes. He targetted Beye at Bolton, he wanted Ben Haim and has brought Faye from his former club. Smith, Geremi, Barton, Viduka, Cacapa and Enrique made up the rest. It is clear that his priorities were to bring in taller, stronger players with a greater workrate and lots of experience. None of these are bad attributes, they give a clue as to the way we will be set up and the type of football we will be playing. And we've seen a glimpse of it so far.

 

You will probably take this as a criticism of Allardyce, but it is what it is. I think most of us knew what we'd be getting when we signed Allardyce so we can't pretend to be surprised. I don't agree with you're analysis of his Bolton side. Nearly all Premiership sides have periods of good football, there's really no need to highlight the games last season where they played a bit. I don't mind Allardyce whereas I never used to like him. That's the way football is, he's a Newcastle manager now and gets my support. But I won't kid myself that his football at Bolton was anything other than boring, because I used to complain about them at the time.

 

I do find the signings of Diouf and Anelka as a cause for optimism, he's not stupid and knows that you need that bit of quality to tip the balance in tight games. I think Allardyce will do a good job and will build us up in a similar way to how he built Bolton, but hopefully with a higher calibre of players. However, I'm under no illusions that we will suddenly start playing slick football. Does it matter? To me, not really. As I said in the other thread I think we're in a beggars can't be choosers position and winning ugly is still winning.

[ChezGiven]

The long throw-in shite is starting to piss me off.

[Guest Knightrider]

We didn't really buy any flair in the transfer window and sold our most technically gifted player in Solano, so these tactics were to be expected.

 

It does concern me that all of Sam's signings point towards a Bolton style of football. Sam took Bolton a long way using those tactics, they are tactics suited to underdogs who lack the technical ability of their rivals but make up for it with a physical advantage. People thought to themselves that if Sam can take Bolton to 5th, imagine what he can achieve with a bigger club and the financial muscle and ability to attract players that comes with all that. But the big question was always whether or not he was capable or willing to move away from those small club underdog tactics and build a team that, technically, can ever go toe to toe with the big boys.

 

The next couple of transfer windows should answer that question. While Sam points to a few flair players he's bought in his time, what he doesn't tell you is that they were the only flair players he ever really bought. I hope that he was just putting the foundations in place this summer, but it's a bit worrying that no technical flair players were brought in at all and the emphasis seems to be on height, physique, workrate, attitude and experience far more than technical ability. Yesterday we were dumped out of the cup by a side with a far more technical and youthful emphasis and if we ever want to be among the big sides we will need to go toe to toe with them technically. It's true that Chelsea and Liverpool's tactics under Mourinho and Benitez were not so different to Bolton in terms of team shape but they were far more gifted technically and could string together a lot of successive passes and dominate possession.

 

We've got a squad in place now and there seems to be money available, there's no excuse for failing to invest in younger and more technical players in the next couple of transfer windows. Time will tell if Allardyce only intends to pursue this Bolton mk II route or whether he brings in the players to take us up a level. It'll all take time to achieve, but to see no flair players at all coming in when we already lacked them does raise eyebrows. Hopefully Mort meant what he said when he talked about buying younger players.

 

Sorry but we play nothing like how Bolton did under Big Sam, sadly. Had we, we'd probably be unbeaten and even higher up in the league than we are at the moment. At their best Bolton were a formidable opponent, physically, mentally, tactically, adaptability and even skilfully, especially after Anelka joined them. I watched them tear Arsenal apart last season playing some wonderful quick football on the deck and they often battered sides in the final 3rd, something we haven't done yet, not even against Wigan. We have been and are nothing like Bolton and it's just plain laziness to even compare the two at the moment just because we have their former manager.

 

I'd be delighted if we played like Bolton, delighted. But we don't. There may be signs there that we are trying to be more like they were under Sam, but we're not there by any stretch of the imagination really, more is the pity.

 

I don't get some of the snobbish reaction to Bolton's style under Sam or some of the remarks. Technical footballers? Diouf and Anelka would walk into and transform our side, even Speed, Nolan and Campo in midfield would give us better balance while Davies' mobility and aerial strength would make that ball stick for certain.

 

Bolton mk2? I wish. We'd never have lost to Derby and would probably still be in the League Cup or wouldn't have rolled over liked we did.

 

We don't lack technical players either, we simply lack a greater understanding, which is pretty obvious and to be expected. Not many new sides can simply start playing football from the off. Ball retention and technical football can only come from a comfortable level of understanding and communication. Takes a lot longer than 6 or 7 games for that to happen though.

 

Btw Arsenal's kids have played more games together than our lads have...

 

Allardyce is building his team the way he wants it and when I look at his signings, they all have similar attributes. He targetted Beye at Bolton, he wanted Ben Haim and has brought Faye from his former club. Smith, Geremi, Barton, Viduka, Cacapa and Enrique made up the rest. It is clear that his priorities were to bring in taller, stronger players with a greater workrate and lots of experience. None of these are bad attributes, they give a clue as to the way we will be set up and the type of football we will be playing. And we've seen a glimpse of it so far.

 

You will probably take this as a criticism of Allardyce, but it is what it is. I think most of us knew what we'd be getting when we signed Allardyce so we can't pretend to be surprised. I don't agree with you're analysis of his Bolton side. Nearly all Premiership sides have periods of good football, there's really no need to highlight the games last season where they played a bit. I don't mind Allardyce whereas I never used to like him. That's the way football is, he's a Newcastle manager now and gets my support. But I won't kid myself that his football at Bolton was anything other than boring, because I used to complain about them at the time.

 

I do find the signings of Diouf and Anelka as a cause for optimism, he's not stupid and knows that you need that bit of quality to tip the balance in tight games. I think Allardyce will do a good job and will build us up in a similar way to how he built Bolton, but hopefully with a higher calibre of players. However, I'm under no illusions that we will suddenly start playing slick football. Does it matter? To me, not really. As I said in the other thread I think we're in a beggars can't be choosers position and winning ugly is still winning.

 

Fair post Ohmelads. I don't think we'll start playing slick football either, I mean not many do anyway, but I also know we won't be a boring long ball team. We'll be a mixture of a lot of things. The West Ham performance will probably be our standard. Hard working, functional, with a bit of class and football mixed in. I can more than live with that.

 

Diouf and Anelka btw are two players who would transcend our playing style up a few notches and I believe in time that type of footballer will be brought into the club in those areas of the pitch.

[ohmelads]

The long throw-in s**** is starting to piss me off.

 

It hasn't had any effect so far. It either needs serious work or needs to be ditched.

 

I think more often than not we're giving away possession and spoiling a good attacking opportunity with the long throw. It's a very difficult ball to attack because it floats slowly into the box, and far more teams seem to be drilled in waiting for the second ball these days as they're wise to it.

[Baggio]

We didn't really buy any flair in the transfer window and sold our most technically gifted player in Solano, so these tactics were to be expected.

 

It does concern me that all of Sam's signings point towards a Bolton style of football. Sam took Bolton a long way using those tactics, they are tactics suited to underdogs who lack the technical ability of their rivals but make up for it with a physical advantage. People thought to themselves that if Sam can take Bolton to 5th, imagine what he can achieve with a bigger club and the financial muscle and ability to attract players that comes with all that. But the big question was always whether or not he was capable or willing to move away from those small club underdog tactics and build a team that, technically, can ever go toe to toe with the big boys.

 

The next couple of transfer windows should answer that question. While Sam points to a few flair players he's bought in his time, what he doesn't tell you is that they were the only flair players he ever really bought. I hope that he was just putting the foundations in place this summer, but it's a bit worrying that no technical flair players were brought in at all and the emphasis seems to be on height, physique, workrate, attitude and experience far more than technical ability. Yesterday we were dumped out of the cup by a side with a far more technical and youthful emphasis and if we ever want to be among the big sides we will need to go toe to toe with them technically. It's true that Chelsea and Liverpool's tactics under Mourinho and Benitez were not so different to Bolton in terms of team shape but they were far more gifted technically and could string together a lot of successive passes and dominate possession.

 

We've got a squad in place now and there seems to be money available, there's no excuse for failing to invest in younger and more technical players in the next couple of transfer windows. Time will tell if Allardyce only intends to pursue this Bolton mk II route or whether he brings in the players to take us up a level. It'll all take time to achieve, but to see no flair players at all coming in when we already lacked them does raise eyebrows. Hopefully Mort meant what he said when he talked about buying younger players.

 

Sorry but we play nothing like how Bolton did under Big Sam, sadly. Had we, we'd probably be unbeaten and even higher up in the league than we are at the moment. At their best Bolton were a formidable opponent, physically, mentally, tactically, adaptability and even skilfully, especially after Anelka joined them. I watched them tear Arsenal apart last season playing some wonderful quick football on the deck and they often battered sides in the final 3rd, something we haven't done yet, not even against Wigan. We have been and are nothing like Bolton and it's just plain laziness to even compare the two at the moment just because we have their former manager.

 

I'd be delighted if we played like Bolton, delighted. But we don't. There may be signs there that we are trying to be more like they were under Sam, but we're not there by any stretch of the imagination really, more is the pity.

 

I don't get some of the snobbish reaction to Bolton's style under Sam or some of the remarks. Technical footballers? Diouf and Anelka would walk into and transform our side, even Speed, Nolan and Campo in midfield would give us better balance while Davies' mobility and aerial strength would make that ball stick for certain.

 

Bolton mk2? I wish. We'd never have lost to Derby and would probably still be in the League Cup or wouldn't have rolled over liked we did.

 

We don't lack technical players either, we simply lack a greater understanding, which is pretty obvious and to be expected. Not many new sides can simply start playing football from the off. Ball retention and technical football can only come from a comfortable level of understanding and communication. Takes a lot longer than 6 or 7 games for that to happen though.

 

Btw Arsenal's kids have played more games together than our lads have...

 

Allardyce is building his team the way he wants it and when I look at his signings, they all have similar attributes. He targetted Beye at Bolton, he wanted Ben Haim and has brought Faye from his former club. Smith, Geremi, Barton, Viduka, Cacapa and Enrique made up the rest. It is clear that his priorities were to bring in taller, stronger players with a greater workrate and lots of experience. None of these are bad attributes, they give a clue as to the way we will be set up and the type of football we will be playing. And we've seen a glimpse of it so far.

 

You will probably take this as a criticism of Allardyce, but it is what it is. I think most of us knew what we'd be getting when we signed Allardyce so we can't pretend to be surprised. I don't agree with you're analysis of his Bolton side. Nearly all Premiership sides have periods of good football, there's really no need to highlight the games last season where they played a bit. I don't mind Allardyce whereas I never used to like him. That's the way football is, he's a Newcastle manager now and gets my support. But I won't kid myself that his football at Bolton was anything other than boring, because I used to complain about them at the time.

 

I do find the signings of Diouf and Anelka as a cause for optimism, he's not stupid and knows that you need that bit of quality to tip the balance in tight games. I think Allardyce will do a good job and will build us up in a similar way to how he built Bolton, but hopefully with a higher calibre of players. However, I'm under no illusions that we will suddenly start playing slick football. Does it matter? To me, not really. As I said in the other thread I think we're in a beggars can't be choosers position and winning ugly is still winning.

 

Excellent post.

[Baggio]

The long throw-in shite is starting to piss me off.

 

He didn't use them against West Ham which was a plus point, sometimes you need to take a throw in quick so you can keep up the momentum instead of waiting for Geremi to jog 40 yards to take it.

[Dave]

The long throw-in shite is starting to piss me off.

 

Have done me from day one.

[Wullie]

The long throw-in s**** is starting to piss me off.

 

It hasn't had any effect so far. It either needs serious work or needs to be ditched.

 

I think more often than not we're giving away possession and spoiling a good attacking opportunity with the long throw. It's a very difficult ball to attack because it floats slowly into the box, and far more teams seem to be drilled in waiting for the second ball these days as they're wise to it.

 

Apart from us against West Ham.

[Guest BigSamsBarmyArmy]

It worked for Bolton and they made the UEFA Cup on merit as well the last two seasons.

[Tsunami]

What are people thinking now?

 

BS made a right pig's ear of his selection and tactics yesterday. He was right to take Cacapa off but he was left woefully exposed for the 2nd & 3rd goals thanks to poor play by others around him.