Newcastle 3 - 1 Tottenham Hotspur - 22/10/07 - Post match reaction from page 17

[Baggio]

The problem with Owen is some people still think he's as good now as the day he signed, the truth is he's nowhere near that quality anymore.

 

....people like Butt need replacing before Owen.

 

I agree (even though I didn't mention replacing Owen) I think his replacement may already be at the club.

[Cajun]

I dont really see the improvement myself. Still a top finisher, good on the ball although not one to play defence splitting passes and doesn't really use his pace that often these days to take players on. Its all about positioning and clinical finishing, something he has always had.

[sparta]

I dont really see the improvement myself. Still a top finisher, good on the ball although not one to play defence splitting passes and doesn't really use his pace that often these days to take players on. Its all about positioning and clinical finishing, something he has always had.

 

i belive that his positioning is increased greatly, before the injury he relyed very much on his pace to get him in to positions.

clinical finishing, well, yeah about the same, but did he score as many headers as he does now? still funny seeing owen score on the head

[Baggio]

The problem with Owen is some people still think he's as good now as the day he signed, the truth is he's nowhere near that quality anymore.

 

How can you tell, he's barely played?  Or is that your argument?  If he doesn't have 15(bare minimum)-20 goals by the end of the season, I'll agree. 

 

How many games do you want to give him?

 

I've seen enough of him since he's been back from injury to know he's not the player he once was, that doesn't mean he's shite by any stretch of the imagination but he's not a World class striker anymore, he's a top class finisher with good movement but he's not going to create much for himself anymore.

 

The old Michael Owen would have raced though and put the ball in the back of the net with that chance against Spurs, the Michael Owen of now is a player who struggles to pull away from the likes of Michael Dawson, which means he has to shoot from distance which is something he's never been that good at.

 

Anelka's a better player than him and he's someone I'd like to see here if Owen leaves, he's not a World class player either.

[Parky]

The problem with Owen is some people still think he's as good now as the day he signed, the truth is he's nowhere near that quality anymore.

 

How can you tell, he's barely played?  Or is that your argument?  If he doesn't have 15(bare minimum)-20 goals by the end of the season, I'll agree. 

 

How many games do you want to give him?

 

I've seen enough of him since he's been back from injury to know he's not the player he once was, that doesn't mean he's shite by any stretch of the imagination but he's not a World class striker anymore, he's a top class finisher with good movement but he's not going to create much for himself anymore.

 

The old Michael Owen would have raced though and put the ball in the back of the net with that chance against Spurs, the Michael Owen of now is a player who struggles to pull away from the likes of Michael Dawson, which means he has to shoot from distance which is something he's never been that good at.

 

Anelka's a better player than him and he's someone I'd like to see here if Owen leaves, he's not a World class player either.

 

Welcome aboard the Anelka train Baggy. 

 

I've only been banging on about getting him for a year and a half on here.

[Cajun]

The problem with Owen is some people still think he's as good now as the day he signed, the truth is he's nowhere near that quality anymore.

 

How can you tell, he's barely played?  Or is that your argument?  If he doesn't have 15(bare minimum)-20 goals by the end of the season, I'll agree. 

 

How many games do you want to give him?

 

I've seen enough of him since he's been back from injury to know he's not the player he once was, that doesn't mean he's shite by any stretch of the imagination but he's not a World class striker anymore, he's a top class finisher with good movement but he's not going to create much for himself anymore.

 

The old Michael Owen would have raced though and put the ball in the back of the net with that chance against Spurs, the Michael Owen of now is a player who struggles to pull away from the likes of Michael Dawson, which means he has to shoot from distance which is something he's never been that good at.

 

Anelka's a better player than him and he's someone I'd like to see here if Owen leaves, he's not a World class player either.

 

Pretty much sums it up for me.

[The Bonk]

The problem with Owen is some people still think he's as good now as the day he signed, the truth is he's nowhere near that quality anymore.

 

How can you tell, he's barely played?  Or is that your argument?  If he doesn't have 15(bare minimum)-20 goals by the end of the season, I'll agree. 

 

How many games do you want to give him?

 

I've seen enough of him since he's been back from injury to know he's not the player he once was, that doesn't mean he's s**** by any stretch of the imagination but he's not a World class striker anymore, he's a top class finisher with good movement but he's not going to create much for himself anymore.

 

The old Michael Owen would have raced though and put the ball in the back of the net with that chance against Spurs, the Michael Owen of now is a player who struggles to pull away from the likes of Michael Dawson, which means he has to shoot from distance which is something he's never been that good at.

 

Anelka's a better player than him and he's someone I'd like to see here if Owen leaves, he's not a World class player either.

 

I'll agree with that synopsis.  So, who do you start up front then, Baggio?  Martins and The Duke? 

[johnnypd]

Owen's build up play has improved hugely imo, barely misplaced a pass against Spurs, but you can still tell that side of the game doesn't come natural to him and we did miss someone who can play with his back to goal, like Viduka. I thought his lack of pace and strength was pretty apparent tho, for the first 15 mins Sam had Martins and Owen moving out wide, but Kaboul really had Owen in his pocket, as a result Sam shifted it so that Owen played deeper in order to find space and have time on the ball. Martins on the other hand was told to push up as much as possible, play right on the shoulder of the last man and pressurise the centre-halves, he did this really well i thought. Sam couldn't really have gone for the opposite combo, with Martins linking and Owen on the last shoulder, as Martins control and passing is not as crisp as Owen's, while Owen doesn't have the pace or strength to play like Martins did. It wasn't a perfect combination by any means but i wouldn't be disappointed to see it tried again, tho it means sacrificing Owen goalscoring to an extent.

 

I think the spurs match shows that our best partnerships will be either Viduka-Martins or Owen-Smith. I don't think Owen has the physical ability anymore to play like Martins did last night, the times when he got in behind or out wide Kaboul was so dominant that it was embarrasing, and as Baggio says Owen was restricted to shooting from distance which with his lack of power has never been a speciality of his. so he'll need a mobile striker to pull opposition defences apart to create space, someone who is capable both at dropping deep and moving out wide, who can link as well as force the opposition to defend deep where Owen is most dangerous, and Smith fits the bill (more so than Viduka anyway). Viduka's style of play and lack of movement might isolate owen, will let the opposition defend a high line to nullify Owen, and leave the team as a whole short of pace and penetration, whereas if he plays with Martins that won't be an issue.

[Parky]

Owen's build up play has improved hugely imo, barely misplaced a pass against Spurs, but you can still tell that side of the game doesn't come natural to him and we did miss someone who can play with his back to goal, like Viduka. I thought his lack of pace and strength was pretty apparent tho, for the first 15 mins Sam had Martins and Owen moving out wide, but Kaboul really had Owen in his pocket, as a result Sam shifted it so that Owen played deeper in order to find space and have time on the ball. Martins on the other hand was told to push up as much as possible, play right on the shoulder of the last man and pressurise the centre-halves, he did this really well i thought.

 

I think the spurs match shows that our best partnerships will be either Viduka-Martins or Owen-Smith. I don't think Owen has the physical ability anymore to play like Martins did last night, the times when he got in behind or out wide Kaboul was so dominant that it was embarrasing, and as Baggio says Owen was restricted to shooting from distance which with his lack of power has never been a speciality of his. so he'll need a mobile striker to pull opposition defences apart to create space, someone who is capable both at dropping deep and moving out wide, who can link as well as force the opposition to defend deep where Owen is most dangerous, and Smith fits the bill (more so than Viduka anyway). Viduka's style of play and lack of movement might isolate owen, will let the opposition defend a high line to nullify Owen, and leave the team as a whole short of pace and penetration, whereas if he plays with Martins that won't be an issue.

 

 

Hopefully in Jan we'll be able to try the Owen/Smith. I have a good feeling about this combo too.

 

Owen is still the best finisher in the PL.

[Baggio]

The problem with Owen is some people still think he's as good now as the day he signed, the truth is he's nowhere near that quality anymore.

 

How can you tell, he's barely played?  Or is that your argument?  If he doesn't have 15(bare minimum)-20 goals by the end of the season, I'll agree. 

 

How many games do you want to give him?

 

I've seen enough of him since he's been back from injury to know he's not the player he once was, that doesn't mean he's shite by any stretch of the imagination but he's not a World class striker anymore, he's a top class finisher with good movement but he's not going to create much for himself anymore.

 

The old Michael Owen would have raced though and put the ball in the back of the net with that chance against Spurs, the Michael Owen of now is a player who struggles to pull away from the likes of Michael Dawson, which means he has to shoot from distance which is something he's never been that good at.

 

Anelka's a better player than him and he's someone I'd like to see here if Owen leaves, he's not a World class player either.

 

Welcome aboard the Anelka train Baggy. 

 

I've only been banging on about getting him for a year and a half on here.

 

I've been a big fan of his for a while now, in fact I was one of the few on here who wanted him instead of Owen the first time around, mainly because of the options a versitile striker like that can give us.

 

As far back as I can find.

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=27749.msg520955#msg520955

[Baggio]

The problem with Owen is some people still think he's as good now as the day he signed, the truth is he's nowhere near that quality anymore.

 

How can you tell, he's barely played?  Or is that your argument?  If he doesn't have 15(bare minimum)-20 goals by the end of the season, I'll agree. 

 

How many games do you want to give him?

 

I've seen enough of him since he's been back from injury to know he's not the player he once was, that doesn't mean he's s**** by any stretch of the imagination but he's not a World class striker anymore, he's a top class finisher with good movement but he's not going to create much for himself anymore.

 

The old Michael Owen would have raced though and put the ball in the back of the net with that chance against Spurs, the Michael Owen of now is a player who struggles to pull away from the likes of Michael Dawson, which means he has to shoot from distance which is something he's never been that good at.

 

Anelka's a better player than him and he's someone I'd like to see here if Owen leaves, he's not a World class player either.

 

I'll agree with that synopsis.  So, who do you start up front then, Baggio?  Martins and The Duke? 

 

I think that would depend on the type of game we're in, if it's a home game that we think we can dominate then Owen has to start, he's a danger man in the area and our best chance of getting a goal under those circumstances, away games when we're under more pressure I'd go for Martins as he's our biggest threat because of his pace and he has the ability to get in behind the back four quite easily.

 

It's nice to have options for a change.

[Parky]

The problem with Owen is some people still think he's as good now as the day he signed, the truth is he's nowhere near that quality anymore.

 

How can you tell, he's barely played?  Or is that your argument?  If he doesn't have 15(bare minimum)-20 goals by the end of the season, I'll agree. 

 

How many games do you want to give him?

 

I've seen enough of him since he's been back from injury to know he's not the player he once was, that doesn't mean he's shite by any stretch of the imagination but he's not a World class striker anymore, he's a top class finisher with good movement but he's not going to create much for himself anymore.

 

The old Michael Owen would have raced though and put the ball in the back of the net with that chance against Spurs, the Michael Owen of now is a player who struggles to pull away from the likes of Michael Dawson, which means he has to shoot from distance which is something he's never been that good at.

 

Anelka's a better player than him and he's someone I'd like to see here if Owen leaves, he's not a World class player either.

 

Welcome aboard the Anelka train Baggy. 

 

I've only been banging on about getting him for a year and a half on here.

 

I've been a big fan of his for a while now, in fact I was one of the few on here who wanted him instead of Owen the first time around, mainly because of the options a versitile striker like that can give us.

 

As far back as I can find.

 

http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=27749.msg520955#msg520955

 

 

Parky

Online

Re: Stats for the new batch of strikers

« Reply #44 on: February 19, 2007, 06:03:29 PM »

Quote  Modify  Remove

I would have preferred Anelka to Martins.

 

 

 

 

[johnnypd]

Owen's build up play has improved hugely imo, barely misplaced a pass against Spurs, but you can still tell that side of the game doesn't come natural to him and we did miss someone who can play with his back to goal, like Viduka. I thought his lack of pace and strength was pretty apparent tho, for the first 15 mins Sam had Martins and Owen moving out wide, but Kaboul really had Owen in his pocket, as a result Sam shifted it so that Owen played deeper in order to find space and have time on the ball. Martins on the other hand was told to push up as much as possible, play right on the shoulder of the last man and pressurise the centre-halves, he did this really well i thought.

 

I think the spurs match shows that our best partnerships will be either Viduka-Martins or Owen-Smith. I don't think Owen has the physical ability anymore to play like Martins did last night, the times when he got in behind or out wide Kaboul was so dominant that it was embarrasing, and as Baggio says Owen was restricted to shooting from distance which with his lack of power has never been a speciality of his. so he'll need a mobile striker to pull opposition defences apart to create space, someone who is capable both at dropping deep and moving out wide, who can link as well as force the opposition to defend deep where Owen is most dangerous, and Smith fits the bill (more so than Viduka anyway). Viduka's style of play and lack of movement might isolate owen, will let the opposition defend a high line to nullify Owen, and leave the team as a whole short of pace and penetration, whereas if he plays with Martins that won't be an issue.

 

 

Hopefully in Jan we'll be able to try the Owen/Smith. I have a good feeling about this combo too.

 

Owen is still the best finisher in the PL.

 

Owen and Smith up front with two fast wingers supplying the crosses would be nice. just need to buy that right-winger now...

[sparta]

Owen's build up play has improved hugely imo, barely misplaced a pass against Spurs, but you can still tell that side of the game doesn't come natural to him and we did miss someone who can play with his back to goal, like Viduka. I thought his lack of pace and strength was pretty apparent tho, for the first 15 mins Sam had Martins and Owen moving out wide, but Kaboul really had Owen in his pocket, as a result Sam shifted it so that Owen played deeper in order to find space and have time on the ball. Martins on the other hand was told to push up as much as possible, play right on the shoulder of the last man and pressurise the centre-halves, he did this really well i thought.

 

I think the spurs match shows that our best partnerships will be either Viduka-Martins or Owen-Smith. I don't think Owen has the physical ability anymore to play like Martins did last night, the times when he got in behind or out wide Kaboul was so dominant that it was embarrasing, and as Baggio says Owen was restricted to shooting from distance which with his lack of power has never been a speciality of his. so he'll need a mobile striker to pull opposition defences apart to create space, someone who is capable both at dropping deep and moving out wide, who can link as well as force the opposition to defend deep where Owen is most dangerous, and Smith fits the bill (more so than Viduka anyway). Viduka's style of play and lack of movement might isolate owen, will let the opposition defend a high line to nullify Owen, and leave the team as a whole short of pace and penetration, whereas if he plays with Martins that won't be an issue.

 

 

Hopefully in Jan we'll be able to try the Owen/Smith. I have a good feeling about this combo too.

 

Owen is still the best finisher in the PL.

 

Owen and Smith up front with two fast wingers supplying the crosses would be nice. just need to buy that right-winger now...

 

well yeah, right wing is probably the only thing that really worry me at the current newcastle squad, we need an option to milner, preferly as you said, a fast winger that can supply crosses, and as it is now, any one of our attackers ,owen,smith,viduka,martins. are very good players on the head. so we need better crossers!

[Cajun]

Owen's build up play has improved hugely imo, barely misplaced a pass against Spurs, but you can still tell that side of the game doesn't come natural to him and we did miss someone who can play with his back to goal, like Viduka. I thought his lack of pace and strength was pretty apparent tho, for the first 15 mins Sam had Martins and Owen moving out wide, but Kaboul really had Owen in his pocket, as a result Sam shifted it so that Owen played deeper in order to find space and have time on the ball. Martins on the other hand was told to push up as much as possible, play right on the shoulder of the last man and pressurise the centre-halves, he did this really well i thought.

 

I think the spurs match shows that our best partnerships will be either Viduka-Martins or Owen-Smith. I don't think Owen has the physical ability anymore to play like Martins did last night, the times when he got in behind or out wide Kaboul was so dominant that it was embarrasing, and as Baggio says Owen was restricted to shooting from distance which with his lack of power has never been a speciality of his. so he'll need a mobile striker to pull opposition defences apart to create space, someone who is capable both at dropping deep and moving out wide, who can link as well as force the opposition to defend deep where Owen is most dangerous, and Smith fits the bill (more so than Viduka anyway). Viduka's style of play and lack of movement might isolate owen, will let the opposition defend a high line to nullify Owen, and leave the team as a whole short of pace and penetration, whereas if he plays with Martins that won't be an issue.

 

 

Hopefully in Jan we'll be able to try the Owen/Smith. I have a good feeling about this combo too.

 

Owen is still the best finisher in the PL.

 

Owen and Smith up front with two fast wingers supplying the crosses would be nice. just need to buy that right-winger now...

 

We have Mil...... ah I can't be bothered 

[sparta]

Owen's build up play has improved hugely imo, barely misplaced a pass against Spurs, but you can still tell that side of the game doesn't come natural to him and we did miss someone who can play with his back to goal, like Viduka. I thought his lack of pace and strength was pretty apparent tho, for the first 15 mins Sam had Martins and Owen moving out wide, but Kaboul really had Owen in his pocket, as a result Sam shifted it so that Owen played deeper in order to find space and have time on the ball. Martins on the other hand was told to push up as much as possible, play right on the shoulder of the last man and pressurise the centre-halves, he did this really well i thought.

 

I think the spurs match shows that our best partnerships will be either Viduka-Martins or Owen-Smith. I don't think Owen has the physical ability anymore to play like Martins did last night, the times when he got in behind or out wide Kaboul was so dominant that it was embarrasing, and as Baggio says Owen was restricted to shooting from distance which with his lack of power has never been a speciality of his. so he'll need a mobile striker to pull opposition defences apart to create space, someone who is capable both at dropping deep and moving out wide, who can link as well as force the opposition to defend deep where Owen is most dangerous, and Smith fits the bill (more so than Viduka anyway). Viduka's style of play and lack of movement might isolate owen, will let the opposition defend a high line to nullify Owen, and leave the team as a whole short of pace and penetration, whereas if he plays with Martins that won't be an issue.

 

 

Hopefully in Jan we'll be able to try the Owen/Smith. I have a good feeling about this combo too.

 

Owen is still the best finisher in the PL.

 

Owen and Smith up front with two fast wingers supplying the crosses would be nice. just need to buy that right-winger now...

 

We have Mil...... ah I can't be bothered 

 

still milner is a good winger, but just not what i would have in the starting XI. a man that i would prefer to have on the bench and give us something else.

[johnnypd]

The problem with Owen is some people still think he's as good now as the day he signed, the truth is he's nowhere near that quality anymore.

 

....people like Butt need replacing before Owen.

 

I agree (even though I didn't mention replacing Owen) I think his replacement may already be at the club.

 

Who do you think is Butt's replacement?

[Cajun]

I like Milner (bet that shocked a few) and still think he is currently our best right winger but I wouldn't say no to a pacy player like SWP coming in. By that I don't just mean anyone who is fast, they have to have the ability aswell.

 

We definitely need to keep hold of Milner though, he has a lot to offer the side, is young, versatile and works his arse off but also has good ability. He isn't by any means a prolific winger but he does have it in him to score a quality goal. Two footed also.

[Cajun]

The problem with Owen is some people still think he's as good now as the day he signed, the truth is he's nowhere near that quality anymore.

 

....people like Butt need replacing before Owen.

 

I agree (even though I didn't mention replacing Owen) I think his replacement may already be at the club.

 

Who do you think is Butt's replacement?

 

I think with Rozehnal, Faye and Geremi we wont be in a desperate rush to replace Butt.

[johnnypd]

The problem with Owen is some people still think he's as good now as the day he signed, the truth is he's nowhere near that quality anymore.

 

....people like Butt need replacing before Owen.

 

I agree (even though I didn't mention replacing Owen) I think his replacement may already be at the club.

 

Who do you think is Butt's replacement?

 

I think with Rozehnal, Faye and Geremi we wont be in a desperate rush to replace Butt.

 

none of those are top drawer, tho neither is Butt i suppose. i don't think Faye has enough ability with the ball at his feet to play there week-in, week-out, while him and Geremi are a similar age to Butt so not sure they'd replace him when he's too old! i'm intrigued by the idea of Rozza playing in midfield, he looks comfortable on the ball and very mobile, and the psg fans thought he was better there than at centre-half.

[Parky]

The problem with Owen is some people still think he's as good now as the day he signed, the truth is he's nowhere near that quality anymore.

 

....people like Butt need replacing before Owen.

 

I agree (even though I didn't mention replacing Owen) I think his replacement may already be at the club.

 

Who do you think is Butt's replacement?

 

I think with Rozehnal, Faye and Geremi we wont be in a desperate rush to replace Butt.

 

none of those are top drawer, tho neither is Butt i suppose. i don't think Faye has enough ability with the ball at his feet to play there week-in, week-out, while him and Geremi are a similar age to Butt so not sure they'd replace him when he's too old! i'm intrigued by the idea of Rozza playing in midfield, he looks comfortable on the ball and very mobile, and the psg fans thought he was better there than at centre-half.

 

Baggy I'm guessing is thinking of Roze.

 

Frankly I don't think any of them have enough to be a top drawer DM. They all have glaring shortcomings.

[sparta]

I like Milner (bet that shocked a few) and still think he is currently our best right winger but I wouldn't say no to a pacy player like SWP coming in. By that I don't just mean anyone who is fast, they have to have the ability aswell.

 

We definitely need to keep hold of Milner though, he has a lot to offer the side, is young, versatile and works his arse off but also has good ability. He isn't by any means a prolific winger but he does have it in him to score a quality goal. Two footed also.

 

couldnt agree more, acually like milner a bit myself

[johnnypd]

^so far i think Butt has looked the best, though that's cos he has had more freedom to roam with Geremi supporting, so he's not really been playing as a defensive midfielder. Geremi i like, he keeps the ball moving, doesn't faff around or spin in circles like a recently departed player, always makes himself available and is the closest we have to someone who can dictate tempo.

[Baggio]

^so far i think Butt has looked the best, though that's cos he has had more freedom to roam with Geremi supporting, so he's not really been playing as a defensive midfielder. Geremi i like, he keeps the ball moving, doesn't faff around or spin in circles like a recently departed player, always makes himself available and is the closest we have to someone who can dictate tempo.

 

I think Rozenhal could be a step up from Geremi in that area, he's someone I'd like to see get a run there as he has a high standard of footballing ability for a defensive minded player.

[Martin Lol]

Oh well, just got back from two days of having the piss taken out of me by my cousins.  TBF though, I thought I was pretty accurate with my predictions................. Newcastle 2-0 (well it was a 2 goal difference), Cerny respectable, either Dawson or Chimbonda to be s*** (wasn't expecting both). 

 

Got JJ horribly wrong, I thought he would be motivated to have a pretty decent game but he was as bad as I think I've seen him.  Kaboul looks to have a lot of potential, but for £8m so he should.

 

Impressed as always by Faye, always puts in a rock solid performance every time we play against his team, MOTM by a country mile imho.  Back to the drawing board and a better effort next season.  A few points wouldn't go amiss either!