ohmelads Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I really want Sam to succeed here but his inability or unwillingness to change his "small club" mentality may prove decisive. He needs to change his ways but can he? If he plays for the draw against sunderland we will lose, and he will lose a massive amount of respect from the fans. sunderland will play for the win and we must do the same. The derby is all about regional pride and a rivalry that goes back centuries. Ruud Gullit tried to be clever by dropping Shearer and Ferguson - we lost to the mackems and 3 days later he was out of a job. I hope Allardyce is aware of what this game means to the supporters, a gutless team selection and tactics will not go down well at all. It's bit early to be saying he wont change his small club mentality. And yes we HAVE to go for the win against the Mackems. Parky is right. It's the attitude that we have a problem with. We should only go to the top 4 LOOKING for a draw. Perhaps if we give it a go and still only get a draw then there wouldn't be a problem. I agree. The players need to be going to places like Reading and Derby confident and positive, and putting fear into them. Reading fans must have looked at our team selection before the game and grinned. 4 central midfielders just says "please don't hurt us", and not surprisingly that's how we played. Can you imagine teams better than us, such as Man Utd or Arsenal, coming to SJP and lining up like that? We'd be pretty happy if they did, and we'd certainly fancy our chances. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olliemort Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Im fucking getting depressed reading this shit!Every game people change there mind abt Sam.Although we havent played the big 4 yet,top 8 is still a solid start with a game in hand on most teams!Also considering we normally play better against the big 4 im not worried!I think people need to give Sam a break,hes still trying to figure out his best team!He did fuck up yesterday though not playing Zog+picking 4 centre midfielders was stupid!Theres only 8 games gone in the season,people were told from the start it needs to be given time with all the new faces he brought in its understandable! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superior Acuña Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 i honestly believe he is no better than our previous 2 managers when it comes to tactics...we are still going away from home and rolling over to s*** opposition. So did Bobby. 2 away wins when we came 5th. I'm worried about winning at home, this doesn't worry. We would've been winning 1-0 and conceded a late equalizer if it where that season. Our problem was not holding onto our leads. We drew plenty of games that season, we didn't lose too many on the road. This isn't the same situation. Well what about his first 2 seasons. It wasn't instant success Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garth Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Im f****** getting depressed reading this s***!Every game people change there mind abt Sam.Although we havent played the big 4 yet,top 8 is still a solid start with a game in hand on most teams!Also considering we normally play better against the big 4 im not worried!I think people need to give Sam a break,hes still trying to figure out his best team!He did f*** up yesterday though not playing Zog+picking 4 centre midfielders was stupid!Theres only 8 games gone in the season,people were told from the start it needs to be given time with all the new faces he brought in its understandable! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I've been worried by Allardyce from the start. He wouldn't have been my choice for a variety of reasons, not least the type of football played by Bolton and his begging for the England job, which made him appear a fool, to put it mildly. Despite all of that and my negative attitude about him I acknowledge that so far he's done fairly well, we're on the right lines and are moving forward. Unlike Souness, he's signed some decent players. I want him to prove me wrong by getting us back up there, I've been hopinig he'll turn out to be the right man for the job. The problem looks real though. If his crap attitude keeps up for much longer it'll start to look even more as though he's not the right man. This type of negative approach is permeating it's way through to the minds of the players, the fear of conceding a goal is going to take over soon and we'll be totally stifled. You can't consistently go away from home in this league and play for a 0-0 with the hopes of snatching a 1-0 win, it won't work. I want to see Allardyce decide on his best XI is and then stick with it, except for players being unavailable. I don't care who the opposition is or whether we're home or away, you pick your strongest XI and that's it. I don't want to see fannying about with formations such as trying 3 at the back, 1 up front, 4-3-3 or 4 central midfielders congesting the space and playing narrow. It's a load of bollocks and if he keeps doing any of those things then for me he'll turn out to be a fuckwit similar to Souness and should go. With a new owner I think he only has this season to prove he's the right man. He better pull his finger out 'cos right now he's not doing too badly but that doesn't translate to "good enough." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Do you think Ashley/Mort will get rid of Allardyce if we aren't in Europe by the end of the season, HTL? I know others (can only think of Baggio right now, like) think so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Do you think Ashley/Mort will get rid of Allardyce if we aren't in Europe by the end of the season, HTL? I know others (can only think of Baggio right now like) think so. Its a huge possibility. It really depends on how we miss out, if we get pipped at the post, or suffer a huge amount of injuries then you can say he deserves another crack. But if we under perform, and the fans and board don't see any real progression throughout the season, then he'll be sacked. But i've faith he'll get it right, sooner rather than later. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 He said: "The players should have been well aware of what they needed to do by the amount of time we spent through the week saying 'this is Reading'. "We showed them the video where West Ham won by three goals by playing on the break but we never did that. "We just kept giving possession away and gave the opposition another chance to put the ball in our box so it was really disappointing. We ended up chasing them too much." some times it´s not the managers fault. and why would Sam get kicked if we dont finish top 6? who should we bring in? Capello?! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I've been worried by Allardyce from the start. He wouldn't have been my choice for a variety of reasons, not least the type of football played by Bolton and his begging for the England job, which made him appear a fool, to put it mildly. Despite all of that and my negative attitude about him I acknowledge that so far he's done fairly well, we're on the right lines and are moving forward. Unlike Souness, he's signed some decent players. I want him to prove me wrong by getting us back up there, I've been hopinig he'll turn out to be the right man for the job. The problem looks real though. If his crap attitude keeps up for much longer it'll start to look even more as though he's not the right man. This type of negative approach is permeating it's way through to the minds of the players, the fear of conceding a goal is going to take over soon and we'll be totally stifled. You can't consistently go away from home in this league and play for a 0-0 with the hopes of snatching a 1-0 win, it won't work. I want to see Allardyce decide on his best XI is and then stick with it, except for players being unavailable. I don't care who the opposition is or whether we're home or away, you pick your strongest XI and that's it. I don't want to see fannying about with formations such as trying 3 at the back, 1 up front, 4-3-3 or 4 central midfielders congesting the space and playing narrow. It's a load of bollocks and if he keeps doing any of those things then for me he'll turn out to be a fuckwit similar to Souness and should go. With a new owner I think he only has this season to prove he's the right man. He better pull his finger out 'cos right now he's not doing too badly but that doesn't translate to "good enough." :thup: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I've been worried by Allardyce from the start. He wouldn't have been my choice for a variety of reasons, not least the type of football played by Bolton and his begging for the England job, which made him appear a fool, to put it mildly. Despite all of that and my negative attitude about him I acknowledge that so far he's done fairly well, we're on the right lines and are moving forward. Unlike Souness, he's signed some decent players. I want him to prove me wrong by getting us back up there, I've been hopinig he'll turn out to be the right man for the job. The problem looks real though. If his crap attitude keeps up for much longer it'll start to look even more as though he's not the right man. This type of negative approach is permeating it's way through to the minds of the players, the fear of conceding a goal is going to take over soon and we'll be totally stifled. You can't consistently go away from home in this league and play for a 0-0 with the hopes of snatching a 1-0 win, it won't work. I want to see Allardyce decide on his best XI is and then stick with it, except for players being unavailable. I don't care who the opposition is or whether we're home or away, you pick your strongest XI and that's it. I don't want to see fannying about with formations such as trying 3 at the back, 1 up front, 4-3-3 or 4 central midfielders congesting the space and playing narrow. It's a load of bollocks and if he keeps doing any of those things then for me he'll turn out to be a fuckwit similar to Souness and should go. With a new owner I think he only has this season to prove he's the right man. He better pull his finger out 'cos right now he's not doing too badly but that doesn't translate to "good enough." In a nutshell. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Do you think Ashley/Mort will get rid of Allardyce if we aren't in Europe by the end of the season, HTL? I know others (can only think of Baggio right now, like) think so. I think there's a chance they could bin him even if we qualify for Europe, tbh. If they don't think he's going to be able to take the club to the level they want then why not? If it was my money I'd want the man I think is the right man. Allardyce has to show signs he has what it takes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Do you think Ashley/Mort will get rid of Allardyce if we aren't in Europe by the end of the season, HTL? I know others (can only think of Baggio right now, like) think so. I think there's a chance they could bin him even if we qualify for Europe, tbh. If they don't think he's going to be able to take the club to the level they want then why not? If it was my money I'd want the man I think is the right man. Allardyce has to show signs he has what it takes. I created a poll in your honour on this subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I've been worried by Allardyce from the start. He wouldn't have been my choice for a variety of reasons, not least the type of football played by Bolton and his begging for the England job, which made him appear a fool, to put it mildly. Despite all of that and my negative attitude about him I acknowledge that so far he's done fairly well, we're on the right lines and are moving forward. Unlike Souness, he's signed some decent players. I want him to prove me wrong by getting us back up there, I've been hopinig he'll turn out to be the right man for the job. The problem looks real though. If his crap attitude keeps up for much longer it'll start to look even more as though he's not the right man. This type of negative approach is permeating it's way through to the minds of the players, the fear of conceding a goal is going to take over soon and we'll be totally stifled. You can't consistently go away from home in this league and play for a 0-0 with the hopes of snatching a 1-0 win, it won't work. I want to see Allardyce decide on his best XI is and then stick with it, except for players being unavailable. I don't care who the opposition is or whether we're home or away, you pick your strongest XI and that's it. I don't want to see fannying about with formations such as trying 3 at the back, 1 up front, 4-3-3 or 4 central midfielders congesting the space and playing narrow. It's a load of bollocks and if he keeps doing any of those things then for me he'll turn out to be a fuckwit similar to Souness and should go. With a new owner I think he only has this season to prove he's the right man. He better pull his finger out 'cos right now he's not doing too badly but that doesn't translate to "good enough." Agree with everything there. I do think we will get better but he needs to accept that he isn't a master tactician and should stop messing about with his formation and trying to be smart. The other week he had N'Zogbia on the right wing, now he's dropping him for a central midfielder, it is this trying to be clever which often backfires on managers who let the praise go to their head. Is it so difficult to play players in their correct positions and use a tried and tested formation? Robson made some mistakes but he never changed his formation, the players knew his system inside out, it was up to the other team to try and stop us. Pulling stunts like he did yesterday have cost us important points, we can't be taking these games for granted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I've been worried by Allardyce from the start. He wouldn't have been my choice for a variety of reasons, not least the type of football played by Bolton and his begging for the England job, which made him appear a fool, to put it mildly. Despite all of that and my negative attitude about him I acknowledge that so far he's done fairly well, we're on the right lines and are moving forward. Unlike Souness, he's signed some decent players. I want him to prove me wrong by getting us back up there, I've been hopinig he'll turn out to be the right man for the job. The problem looks real though. If his crap attitude keeps up for much longer it'll start to look even more as though he's not the right man. This type of negative approach is permeating it's way through to the minds of the players, the fear of conceding a goal is going to take over soon and we'll be totally stifled. You can't consistently go away from home in this league and play for a 0-0 with the hopes of snatching a 1-0 win, it won't work. I want to see Allardyce decide on his best XI is and then stick with it, except for players being unavailable. I don't care who the opposition is or whether we're home or away, you pick your strongest XI and that's it. I don't want to see fannying about with formations such as trying 3 at the back, 1 up front, 4-3-3 or 4 central midfielders congesting the space and playing narrow. It's a load of bollocks and if he keeps doing any of those things then for me he'll turn out to be a fuckwit similar to Souness and should go. With a new owner I think he only has this season to prove he's the right man. He better pull his finger out 'cos right now he's not doing too badly but that doesn't translate to "good enough." Agree with everything there. I do think we will get better but he needs to accept that he isn't a master tactician and should stop messing about with his formation and trying to be smart. The other week he had N'Zogbia on the right wing, now he's dropping him for a central midfielder, it is this trying to be clever which often backfires on managers who let the praise go to their head. Is it so difficult to play players in their correct positions and use a tried and tested formation? Robson made some mistakes but he never changed his formation, the players knew his system inside out, it was up to the other team to try and stop us. Pulling stunts like he did yesterday have cost us important points, we can't be taking these games for granted. I remember a few times Robson tried to change his formation, he wanted to go 3 at the back for about a 6 month period and thought Aaron Hughes was the key to making it work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 He played 5-3-2 away to Chelsea in his first game didn't he when we lost 1-0? Also that awful performance at home to Spurs he done the same when we got beat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 He played 5-3-2 away to Chelsea in his first game didn't he when we lost 1-0? Also that awful performance at home to Spurs he done the same when we got beat. 90% certain about the spurs game. I'm about 80% sure he did it in Europe as well, could of even been against Barca (but that really could be wrong) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decky Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 WTF is he thinking? this isnt Bolton fucking Wanderers, what kind of ambition does the man have if he wants to go to places like Reading and play for a draw when they have conceeded the most goals in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I've been worried by Allardyce from the start. He wouldn't have been my choice for a variety of reasons, not least the type of football played by Bolton and his begging for the England job, which made him appear a fool, to put it mildly. Despite all of that and my negative attitude about him I acknowledge that so far he's done fairly well, we're on the right lines and are moving forward. Unlike Souness, he's signed some decent players. I want him to prove me wrong by getting us back up there, I've been hopinig he'll turn out to be the right man for the job. The problem looks real though. If his crap attitude keeps up for much longer it'll start to look even more as though he's not the right man. This type of negative approach is permeating it's way through to the minds of the players, the fear of conceding a goal is going to take over soon and we'll be totally stifled. You can't consistently go away from home in this league and play for a 0-0 with the hopes of snatching a 1-0 win, it won't work. I want to see Allardyce decide on his best XI is and then stick with it, except for players being unavailable. I don't care who the opposition is or whether we're home or away, you pick your strongest XI and that's it. I don't want to see fannying about with formations such as trying 3 at the back, 1 up front, 4-3-3 or 4 central midfielders congesting the space and playing narrow. It's a load of bollocks and if he keeps doing any of those things then for me he'll turn out to be a fuckwit similar to Souness and should go. With a new owner I think he only has this season to prove he's the right man. He better pull his finger out 'cos right now he's not doing too badly but that doesn't translate to "good enough." To be honest, i have to agree about his attitude, i dont really like the, play for a draw attitude, it just doesnt sit right with me, on the flip side, i can handle these poor performances for the time being because of the dierection the club is going, people like Allardyce should never be compared to Roeder of Souness because never in 3 years did th club look anywhere near like going in the right way. I personnaly can wait till next year to see what SA can do for us because of the vast improvements he's already made. I think people are being hugely unrealistic about our expectations in his first season, its been 5 months and he's done more for the club than Roeder and Souness did in 3, he's turning SJP into a fortress, we're going in the right direction, be patient,see where we end up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I've been worried by Allardyce from the start. He wouldn't have been my choice for a variety of reasons, not least the type of football played by Bolton and his begging for the England job, which made him appear a fool, to put it mildly. Despite all of that and my negative attitude about him I acknowledge that so far he's done fairly well, we're on the right lines and are moving forward. Unlike Souness, he's signed some decent players. I want him to prove me wrong by getting us back up there, I've been hopinig he'll turn out to be the right man for the job. The problem looks real though. If his crap attitude keeps up for much longer it'll start to look even more as though he's not the right man. This type of negative approach is permeating it's way through to the minds of the players, the fear of conceding a goal is going to take over soon and we'll be totally stifled. You can't consistently go away from home in this league and play for a 0-0 with the hopes of snatching a 1-0 win, it won't work. I want to see Allardyce decide on his best XI is and then stick with it, except for players being unavailable. I don't care who the opposition is or whether we're home or away, you pick your strongest XI and that's it. I don't want to see fannying about with formations such as trying 3 at the back, 1 up front, 4-3-3 or 4 central midfielders congesting the space and playing narrow. It's a load of bollocks and if he keeps doing any of those things then for me he'll turn out to be a fuckwit similar to Souness and should go. With a new owner I think he only has this season to prove he's the right man. He better pull his finger out 'cos right now he's not doing too badly but that doesn't translate to "good enough." Agree with everything there. I do think we will get better but he needs to accept that he isn't a master tactician and should stop messing about with his formation and trying to be smart. The other week he had N'Zogbia on the right wing, now he's dropping him for a central midfielder, it is this trying to be clever which often backfires on managers who let the praise go to their head. Is it so difficult to play players in their correct positions and use a tried and tested formation? Robson made some mistakes but he never changed his formation, the players knew his system inside out, it was up to the other team to try and stop us. Pulling stunts like he did yesterday have cost us important points, we can't be taking these games for granted. I remember a few times Robson tried to change his formation, he wanted to go 3 at the back for about a 6 month period and thought Aaron Hughes was the key to making it work. You're right he did. Robson was generally very consistent with his tactics though. He made some mistakes (Bowyer right wing), but when everyone was fit he knew his best team and always stuck with it. I would hope Allardyce will find a system that works and stick with it. Playing without wingers should never be considered though,, espescially when you have two of them fit on the bench. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howaythelads Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I've been worried by Allardyce from the start. He wouldn't have been my choice for a variety of reasons, not least the type of football played by Bolton and his begging for the England job, which made him appear a fool, to put it mildly. Despite all of that and my negative attitude about him I acknowledge that so far he's done fairly well, we're on the right lines and are moving forward. Unlike Souness, he's signed some decent players. I want him to prove me wrong by getting us back up there, I've been hopinig he'll turn out to be the right man for the job. The problem looks real though. If his crap attitude keeps up for much longer it'll start to look even more as though he's not the right man. This type of negative approach is permeating it's way through to the minds of the players, the fear of conceding a goal is going to take over soon and we'll be totally stifled. You can't consistently go away from home in this league and play for a 0-0 with the hopes of snatching a 1-0 win, it won't work. I want to see Allardyce decide on his best XI is and then stick with it, except for players being unavailable. I don't care who the opposition is or whether we're home or away, you pick your strongest XI and that's it. I don't want to see fannying about with formations such as trying 3 at the back, 1 up front, 4-3-3 or 4 central midfielders congesting the space and playing narrow. It's a load of bollocks and if he keeps doing any of those things then for me he'll turn out to be a fuckwit similar to Souness and should go. With a new owner I think he only has this season to prove he's the right man. He better pull his finger out 'cos right now he's not doing too badly but that doesn't translate to "good enough." To be honest, i have to agree about his attitude, i dont really like the, play for a draw attitude, it just doesnt sit right with me, on the flip side, i can handle these poor performances for the time being because of the dierection the club is going, people like Allardyce should never be compared to Roeder of Souness because never in 3 years did th club look anywhere near like going in the right way. I personnaly can wait till next year to see what SA can do for us because of the vast improvements he's already made. I think people are being hugely unrealistic about our expectations in his first season, its been 5 months and he's done more for the club than Roeder and Souness did in 3, he's turning SJP into a fortress, we're going in the right direction, be patient,see where we end up. I understand your point and I really hate to say this, but what you're saying is the same as many people said about Souness at the time. Signing Parker, Emre, Boumsong, Luque etc, was regarded by many as indicative of the club going in the right direction, the "cancers" had been booted out by Souness and were replaced by these so-called "proper" players, so all he needed was more time. We know what happened and it was predictable, it didn't take hindsight because the warning signs were there. I'm worried by Allardyce's negative attitude and negative approach but I see these things as warning signs, they are just different to those we saw under Souness but they are warning signs nevertheless. That's the bottom line for me and I think it's perfectly justified despite the short time he's been manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Unfortunate for us but I see a number of people are saying things I pointed out in the summer. Fat Sam is out of his depth and I see Owen on his bike replaced by 6 more grunts at two mill apiece. Plenty of bodies in the squad to win a ball but nobody capable of doing much with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I've been worried by Allardyce from the start. He wouldn't have been my choice for a variety of reasons, not least the type of football played by Bolton and his begging for the England job, which made him appear a fool, to put it mildly. Despite all of that and my negative attitude about him I acknowledge that so far he's done fairly well, we're on the right lines and are moving forward. Unlike Souness, he's signed some decent players. I want him to prove me wrong by getting us back up there, I've been hopinig he'll turn out to be the right man for the job. The problem looks real though. If his crap attitude keeps up for much longer it'll start to look even more as though he's not the right man. This type of negative approach is permeating it's way through to the minds of the players, the fear of conceding a goal is going to take over soon and we'll be totally stifled. You can't consistently go away from home in this league and play for a 0-0 with the hopes of snatching a 1-0 win, it won't work. I want to see Allardyce decide on his best XI is and then stick with it, except for players being unavailable. I don't care who the opposition is or whether we're home or away, you pick your strongest XI and that's it. I don't want to see fannying about with formations such as trying 3 at the back, 1 up front, 4-3-3 or 4 central midfielders congesting the space and playing narrow. It's a load of bollocks and if he keeps doing any of those things then for me he'll turn out to be a fuckwit similar to Souness and should go. With a new owner I think he only has this season to prove he's the right man. He better pull his finger out 'cos right now he's not doing too badly but that doesn't translate to "good enough." To be honest, i have to agree about his attitude, i dont really like the, play for a draw attitude, it just doesnt sit right with me, on the flip side, i can handle these poor performances for the time being because of the dierection the club is going, people like Allardyce should never be compared to Roeder of Souness because never in 3 years did th club look anywhere near like going in the right way. I personnaly can wait till next year to see what SA can do for us because of the vast improvements he's already made. I think people are being hugely unrealistic about our expectations in his first season, its been 5 months and he's done more for the club than Roeder and Souness did in 3, he's turning SJP into a fortress, we're going in the right direction, be patient,see where we end up. I understand your point and I really hate to say this, but what you're saying is the same as many people said about Souness at the time. Signing Parker, Emre, Boumsong, Luque etc, was regarded by many as indicative of the club going in the right direction, the "cancers" had been booted out and replaced by these so-called "proper" players by Souness so all he needed was more time. We know what happened and it was predictable, it didn't take hindsight because the warning signs were there. I'm worried by Allardyce's negative attitude and negative approach but I see these things as warning signs, they are just different to those we saw under Souness but they are warning signs nevertheless. That's the bottom line for me and I think it's perfectly justified despite the short time he's been manager. Who are these cancers you talk about that Parker, Emre, Boumsong and Luque replaced? Bellamy (who was replaced by Michael Owen) and? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Where were you last week, Sniffer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Back at home. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 Ah, I see. No internet access. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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