Parky Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 It'll be interesting to know who Ashley and Mort replace Allardyce with (if they do) as neither seem to know fuck all about football. Why do you say that? I'm not inclined to strenuously disagree, mind. I think Mort might not be terrible at making a choice, though. He seems sharp. I hope I'm not wrong and he's impressed by charmers, as other "savvy" business-types have been in Football. I take the fact he's Mike Ashley's caretaker as a positive. I just don't think either are that switched on when it comes to football, neither seem to have been great followers of the sport in the past and it makes you think what route they will go down when/if they have to replace Allardyce. Mort seems to me to be a top business man and will eventually turn this club around on the financial side of things, how he'll go about deciding on a replacement for Allardyce is another thing. He'll take advice. The first port of call of any successful professional. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 It'll be interesting to know who Ashley and Mort replace Allardyce with (if they do) as neither seem to know fuck all about football. Why do you say that? I'm not inclined to strenuously disagree, mind. I think Mort might not be terrible at making a choice, though. He seems sharp. I hope I'm not wrong and he's impressed by charmers, as other "savvy" business-types have been in Football. I take the fact he's Mike Ashley's caretaker as a positive. I just don't think either are that switched on when it comes to football, neither seem to have been great followers of the sport in the past and it makes you think what route they will go down when/if they have to replace Allardyce. Mort seems to me to be a top business man and will eventually turn this club around on the financial side of things, how he'll go about deciding on a replacement for Allardyce is another thing. I (would like to) think Mort will know that part of his job is to recognise he doesn't really know something and to get the advice of someone who will. Its part of his trade. Of course, if he gets the advice of a plausible idiot... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
80 Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 It'll be interesting to know who Ashley and Mort replace Allardyce with (if they do) as neither seem to know fuck all about football. Why do you say that? I'm not inclined to strenuously disagree, mind. I think Mort might not be terrible at making a choice, though. He seems sharp. I hope I'm not wrong and he's impressed by charmers, as other "savvy" business-types have been in Football. I take the fact he's Mike Ashley's caretaker as a positive. I just don't think either are that switched on when it comes to football, neither seem to have been great followers of the sport in the past and it makes you think what route they will go down when/if they have to replace Allardyce. Mort seems to me to be a top business man and will eventually turn this club around on the financial side of things, how he'll go about deciding on a replacement for Allardyce is another thing. He'll take advice. The first port of call of any successful professional. I really need to type quicker... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I (would like to) think Mort will know that part of his job is to recognise he doesn't really know something and to get the advice of someone who will. Its part of his trade. Of course, if he gets the advice of a plausible idiot... Where's HTT when you need him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 I (would like to) think Mort will know that part of his job is to recognise he doesn't really know something and to get the advice of someone who will. Its part of his trade. Of course, if he gets the advice of a plausible idiot... Where's HTT when you need him? grafting hitzfeld faces onto toy sharks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 28, 2007 Share Posted October 28, 2007 grafting hitzfeld faces onto toy sharks. I wonder if he needs a hand? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 If we're seen to be challenging for Europe until the end of the season, I don't suppose they'll be thinking of a change. It's all about whether or not we appear to be heading in the right direction. As others have said, Ashley didn't appoint Allardyce. How much he backs him in January could give us a clue. He's got good value for his money so far (bar the Smith signing). But that was the easier side of things, he's generally padded out the squad with decent, cheap players from what I can see. The bigger challenge will be getting top players to come to an unsuccessful club in a relatively small city, or to buy himself the time to develop such players. My gut feeling is he'll be allowed this season to make his mark on things, and next season there will be a lot more scrutiny. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 If we're seen to be challenging for Europe until the end of the season, I don't suppose they'll be thinking of a change. It's all about whether or not we appear to be heading in the right direction. As others have said, Ashley didn't appoint Allardyce. How much he backs him in January could give us a clue. He's got good value for his money so far (bar the Smith signing). But that was the easier side of things, he's generally padded out the squad with decent, cheap players from what I can see. The bigger challenge will be getting top players to come to an unsuccessful club in a relatively small city, or to buy himself the time to develop such players. My gut feeling is he'll be allowed this season to make his mark on things, and next season there will be a lot more scrutiny. Precisely Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallowgate Toon Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I can't believe some people are talking about Allardyce leaving tbh, its pointless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I can't believe some people are talking about Allardyce leaving tbh, its pointless. That's the problem, so was Derby and Reading away. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Its stupid isnt it, people just dont learn, SBR wasnt an instant success but he was afforded time because in his first 2 seasons there were good signs, in 5 months it fair to say that SA has implemented more improvement than SBR did in his first couple of seasons. Are the same people who want SA out of the job the same who wanted SBR out after his first season?? A bit a common sense and patients wouldnt go a miss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Its stupid isnt it, people just dont learn, SBR wasnt an instant success but he was afforded time because in his first 2 seasons there were good signs, in 5 months it fair to say that SA has implemented more improvement than SBR did in his first couple of seasons. Are the same people who want SA out of the job the same who wanted SBR out after his first season?? A bit a common sense and patients wouldnt go a miss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
olliemort Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Depends on alot of things! 1)Are the fans happy with Sam? 2)Finish in top half 3)Putting in good performances 4)Were the majority of Sams signings a success? 5)What the mood is like in the camp,(Are the players happy with Sam) 6)Has the defending improved? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
1878 Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 It would be pretty stupid to sack him if you missed out since there's about 6/8 teams with realistic hopes for a UEFA place. He's only just starting to put his backroom staff in place too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macbeth Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I think that withotu a Uefa (or CL) place from this season he'll be out. The home results have been fine, but the performances both home and away haven't been good enough. Abramovitch couldn't cope with all his money being spent to produce a winning, but dull, team. I cannot see Ashley being more relaxed and happily accepting losing, dull football for his investment. At the level Newcastle shoudl be playing at Allardyce does not have the credentials required. If I was Ashley I would be expecting CL every year, and serious challenges in all competitions. To do this I expect to need a manager who has proven ability to (in no particualr order) 1) manage a side to that level in a top league 2) manage a successful side in Europe 3) attract and motivate "star" players 4) have the skills to produce a side which is tactically aware, and able to change tactics as required 5) have the ability to nurture a side that has a blend of old and young players 6) have the ability to build a club culture so that everyone knows what they are doing, and everyone buys into that 7) have the ability to connect with the fans, to lift their spirits Roeder had at most one of these Souness had one Robson had 6 or 7 For me Allardyce has 3, maybe 5, 6 and maybe 7. So two yes and two maybe. I'm not convinced this is enough, or that Ashley will see it as enough. I also suspect that Levy did this analysis with Jol and decided that he wasn't good enough either. The only way for Allardyce to prove himself now is to do it with us. SO if he gets us into the top 4, if we play in Europe, and compete, if gets us playind well against all sorts of opponents, if he gets SJP bouncing, then he may well be okay. But I don't think he will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Its stupid isnt it, people just dont learn, SBR wasnt an instant success but he was afforded time because in his first 2 seasons there were good signs, in 5 months it fair to say that SA has implemented more improvement than SBR did in his first couple of seasons. Are the same people who want SA out of the job the same who wanted SBR out after his first season?? A bit a common sense and patients wouldnt go a miss. heeeeeee-larious Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 It would be pretty stupid to sack him if you missed out since there's about 6/8 teams with realistic hopes for a UEFA place. He's only just starting to put his backroom staff in place too. I agree. The new board may have other ideas though. He got the job before they came in, so he wasn't their appointment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 I just wonder who they would get to this city and town thats better than Sam. Pretty stupied to sack him! give him time. If I would be Ashley and things would improve for the better I would let him sit out the contract. To demnad top 6 this years you really got to be as smart as SHepherd. and that is not a positiv thing. Blackburn, Everton, Portsmtouh, ASton VIlla are all teams that have had time to slovley improv. they have let there manager work for a long time and it has paid off. Our recent managers has take our club backwards and we are fare behend these teams. So just being close this season would be a great improvement and that is the reason it won´t be smart to sack Sam. We need to do the same thing thease teams has done. But it will take time. If Allardyce is going to be replaced it got to be a Mouhrino, a Capello etc. A proved winner. but as I said. I can´t see this coming and I would be really pissed off if he would get sacked! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATB Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 Because if we just fire Sam and hire a Hughes for example. We would have to start all over again for the same resault, problably. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Lol Posted October 29, 2007 Share Posted October 29, 2007 If Ashley is anything like his best mate, I would guess he has this season to show that the promised land is on the horizon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dev Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 You would have to say there is a very high chance of Owen leaving the club in June. Add to that the need to replace Viduka in 12-18 months time. The result is a requirement to spend some 20mil at least in the transfer market on strikers alone in June. Realistically there is obviously a need for a couple more expensive players at the very least, if we want to comfortably challenge for Europe. For that reason alone if Sam will need to show some solid performances throughout the season to survive I reckon. If we fade out dissapointingly towards the end of the season into 10th or even worse you have to ask yourself if Mort will have the faith in Allardyce to spend such large sums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Dev Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 I just wonder who they would get to this city and town thats better than Sam. Pretty stupied to sack him! give him time. If I would be Ashley and things would improve for the better I would let him sit out the contract. To demnad top 6 this years you really got to be as smart as SHepherd. and that is not a positiv thing. Blackburn, Everton, Portsmtouh, ASton VIlla are all teams that have had time to slovley improv. they have let there manager work for a long time and it has paid off. Our recent managers has take our club backwards and we are fare behend these teams. So just being close this season would be a great improvement and that is the reason it won´t be smart to sack Sam. We need to do the same thing thease teams has done. But it will take time. If Allardyce is going to be replaced it got to be a Mouhrino, a Capello etc. A proved winner. but as I said. I can´t see this coming and I would be really pissed off if he would get sacked! I think obviously there would be no point sacking Sam unless there was a fairly solid understanding with a well qualified replacement. You may be right though, Sam might survive simply because they are unable to attract anyone better. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 Its stupid isnt it, people just dont learn, SBR wasnt an instant success but he was afforded time because in his first 2 seasons there were good signs, in 5 months it fair to say that SA has implemented more improvement than SBR did in his first couple of seasons. Are the same people who want SA out of the job the same who wanted SBR out after his first season?? A bit a common sense and patients wouldnt go a miss. Sir Bobby couldn't have been any more an instant success than guiding the first team he picked to an 8-0 home victory, Shearer turned from being a liability and banged 5 goals in. I think Sir Bobby took over a worse club than Allardyce has taken over and had less money to spend at the beginning and he had to get a lot of high earners off the books before he could start to move forwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 If Ashley is anything like his best mate, I would guess he has this season to show that the promised land is on the horizon. I doubt Ashley will have any say in Allardyce staying or going, I get the impression that he's appointed somebody who he trusts to do the job right and will allow him to get on with it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dilligaf Posted October 30, 2007 Share Posted October 30, 2007 It's not just about qualifying for Europe, it's about performances as well. We can qualify for Europe and he may still be binned. Surely that would be ridiculously harsh? How would non-football men like Ashley and Mort judge the performances separate of results? The fans. Its quite easy to listen to how a season is going by the response of the crowd at the end of every match. Who boos or grumbles when we win? Youre an admin on this board and ask that lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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