madras Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 “Chopping and changing managers here hasn’t worked and the success stories at other clubs are usually connected with longevity” added Mort. I wish the idiot fans would just have some patience and read this quote over and over. More likely they'll forget it by next week and spout on about how Mort and Ashley want Sam out and that patience is something they both don't possess...............its depressing but what can you do? the opposite is true, the stability comes from being succesful not the other way around. Oh Dear . . Stability (with the right people involved . . Ashley / Mort / Allardyce / Money on top players . . facilitates the opportunity for success. THEN (as you say) success should come, and that creates it's own form of additional stability. BUT, first you need . . . . . that has sod all to do with stability,more with (hopefully) the right people in the right jobs. if allardyce hasn't drastically improved on where we are now he will be gone by august 2009. the quest fro stability shouldn't mean keeping hold of possibly the wrong personnel That is where successful (Ashley) and intelligent (Mort) people come in. They make the judgement call about 'personnel'. They appear to have made it already . . we'll see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 “Chopping and changing managers here hasn’t worked and the success stories at other clubs are usually connected with longevity” added Mort. I wish the idiot fans would just have some patience and read this quote over and over. More likely they'll forget it by next week and spout on about how Mort and Ashley want Sam out and that patience is something they both don't possess...............its depressing but what can you do? the opposite is true, the stability comes from being succesful not the other way around. Oh Dear . . Stability (with the right people involved . . Ashley / Mort / Allardyce / Money on top players . . facilitates the opportunity for success. THEN (as you say) success should come, and that creates it's own form of additional stability. BUT, first you need . . . . . that has sod all to do with stability,more with (hopefully) the right people in the right jobs. if allardyce hasn't drastically improved on where we are now he will be gone by august 2009. the quest fro stability shouldn't mean keeping hold of possibly the wrong personnel That is where successful (Ashley) and intelligent (Mort) people come in. They make the judgement call about 'personnel'. They appear to have made it already . . we'll see. In truth, that is all we can do and all we should do - wait and see. This Mort/Ashley club is so different to what it has ever been (and I went through the SJH changes from Mckeag) and it just looks, sounds and smells (!) RIGHT! Have faith - this is different. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 “Chopping and changing managers here hasn’t worked and the success stories at other clubs are usually connected with longevity” added Mort. I wish the idiot fans would just have some patience and read this quote over and over. More likely they'll forget it by next week and spout on about how Mort and Ashley want Sam out and that patience is something they both don't possess...............its depressing but what can you do? the opposite is true, the stability comes from being succesful not the other way around. Oh Dear . . Stability (with the right people involved . . Ashley / Mort / Allardyce / Money on top players . . facilitates the opportunity for success. THEN (as you say) success should come, and that creates it's own form of additional stability. BUT, first you need . . . . . that has sod all to do with stability,more with (hopefully) the right people in the right jobs. if allardyce hasn't drastically improved on where we are now he will be gone by august 2009. the quest fro stability shouldn't mean keeping hold of possibly the wrong personnel That is where successful (Ashley) and intelligent (Mort) people come in. They make the judgement call about 'personnel'. They appear to have made it already . . we'll see. In truth, that is all we can do and all we should do - wait and see. This Mort/Ashley club is so different to what it has ever been (and I went through the SJH changes from Mckeag) and it just looks, sounds and smells (!) RIGHT! Have faith - this is different. the ashley/mort bit may provide the stability, as yet i'm not too sure on allardyce Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovejoy Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 great news, and we have come a long way since freddy with sensible interviews like this. the biggest laugh i had at the weekend was that the rag that claimed big sam would be kicked out claimed hughes as a replacement. the one thing hughes has had at blackburn is time. we currently play with all of the inconsitencies that mass change brings, but sam will get it right, and it looks as though th emen in charge are prepared to wait as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Mort has said the only things he COULD say - he has no alternative. He is quite right that all the managerial changes have been bad for the club, but that is down to the previous Board who didn't pick the right man in the first place, although unlike many, I believe that Dalglish WOULD have been a success if he hadn't fallen out with Fletcher and Shearer hadn't been injured in the 97 pre-season. All the other choices, with the obvious exception of SBR(who should really have come 2 years previously when asked by Sir John after KK walked out)have been disastrous without exception. Mort & Ashley are quite correct in seeking to stabilse the club, and as I have said on other threads, are unlikely to jump into sacking Allardyce for the remainder of the season at least. Whether they reconsider at the season's end will depend on what happens between now & then ; I would guess that if we finish in the top 10, they will let things go for another year ; if we finish near the bottom 4 then I wouldn't be at all surprised if Allardyce goes, esp if they have given him money to spend in Jan. The next few weeks will be a big test for everyone at the club - we have some tough games and if we lose them all it will heap pressure on both manager & directors. If we are in the bottom 4 by Christmas,there will be some sleepless nights for the latter, as the season could be falling apart.. A bad finish to the season, with us being near the relegation slots, would be justification for the manager to be replaced in most observers eyes and enable the directors/owner to seek top class replacements - on the other hand, a top 10 finish would give little reason for Allardyce to be replaced ; most of the media would view it as success given our disarray over the past few years. Basically, given some financial support in Jan, its all in Allardyce's own hands - he has at least half a team of his own choosing and must stand or fall by results. If these are not forthcoming, the consequences for Prem managers are well known, not that it is a disaster for them - they walk away with a fortune for what is basically failure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brazilianbob Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I can't f****** believe some of the comments in this thread, I really can't. I can. I sometimes think it's the club's Achilles Heel - the inability of fans to see the bigger picture and exhibit patience and support for what is clearly going to be a longer term rebuilding project. As Mort said, chopping and changing has got us absolutely nowhere. Sam said when he was appointed that there would be tough times ahead. Deep down when I heard him saying that I knew there'd be a section of the fanbase who would object to that instantly. What Mort should have said is, chopping and changing and making the wrong choice of manager has got us nowhere. Man City went through exactly the same process as us in the summer, new owner, new manager, and new players. The excuse that we did not have time to buy the players Allardyce wanted because the new owner/chairman wasn't up to speed, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in the new chairman/owner. The truth is Man City have chopped and changed managers as much as us, but they made the right choice in Sven, a proven big club manager with quality trophies in his CV, whilst we yet again went for the cheap option of giving a "wannabe" a chance at the big time. As for those who say we will buy the players we need to turn the side around in the Jan window, we know from past experience that clubs just don't sell their best players then, so I would advise you all not to hold your breath waiting for quality signings because it just isn't going to happen. As for being patient, as a long suffering supporter and former season ticket holder when we were really really sh*t, isn't 40 years long enough to start expecting better! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I can't f****** believe some of the comments in this thread, I really can't. I can. I sometimes think it's the club's Achilles Heel - the inability of fans to see the bigger picture and exhibit patience and support for what is clearly going to be a longer term rebuilding project. As Mort said, chopping and changing has got us absolutely nowhere. Sam said when he was appointed that there would be tough times ahead. Deep down when I heard him saying that I knew there'd be a section of the fanbase who would object to that instantly. What Mort should have said is, chopping and changing and making the wrong choice of manager has got us nowhere. Man City went through exactly the same process as us in the summer, new owner, new manager, and new players. The excuse that we did not have time to buy the players Allardyce wanted because the new owner/chairman wasn't up to speed, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in the new chairman/owner. The truth is Man City have chopped and changed managers as much as us, but they made the right choice in Sven, a proven big club manager with quality trophies in his CV, whilst we yet again went for the cheap option of giving a "wannabe" a chance at the big time. As for those who say we will buy the players we need to turn the side around in the Jan window, we know from past experience that clubs just don't sell their best players then, so I would advise you all not to hold your breath waiting for quality signings because it just isn't going to happen. As for being patient, as a long suffering supporter and former season ticket holder when we were really really sh*t, isn't 40 years long enough to start expecting better! i'd have hardly called alex fergie or arsene wenger proven big club managers before they took over, but they are the 2 most successful managers in the PL so far. both also needed time to sort themselves out before success came. we're not city and never will be and we were a complete joke 6 months ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I can't f****** believe some of the comments in this thread, I really can't. I can. I sometimes think it's the club's Achilles Heel - the inability of fans to see the bigger picture and exhibit patience and support for what is clearly going to be a longer term rebuilding project. As Mort said, chopping and changing has got us absolutely nowhere. Sam said when he was appointed that there would be tough times ahead. Deep down when I heard him saying that I knew there'd be a section of the fanbase who would object to that instantly. What Mort should have said is, chopping and changing and making the wrong choice of manager has got us nowhere. Man City went through exactly the same process as us in the summer, new owner, new manager, and new players. The excuse that we did not have time to buy the players Allardyce wanted because the new owner/chairman wasn't up to speed, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in the new chairman/owner. The truth is Man City have chopped and changed managers as much as us, but they made the right choice in Sven, a proven big club manager with quality trophies in his CV, whilst we yet again went for the cheap option of giving a "wannabe" a chance at the big time. As for those who say we will buy the players we need to turn the side around in the Jan window, we know from past experience that clubs just don't sell their best players then, so I would advise you all not to hold your breath waiting for quality signings because it just isn't going to happen. As for being patient, as a long suffering supporter and former season ticket holder when we were really really sh*t, isn't 40 years long enough to start expecting better! Manchester City already had a good settled spine to their team to build from. We didn't unfortunately. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I can't f****** believe some of the comments in this thread, I really can't. I can. I sometimes think it's the club's Achilles Heel - the inability of fans to see the bigger picture and exhibit patience and support for what is clearly going to be a longer term rebuilding project. As Mort said, chopping and changing has got us absolutely nowhere. Sam said when he was appointed that there would be tough times ahead. Deep down when I heard him saying that I knew there'd be a section of the fanbase who would object to that instantly. What Mort should have said is, chopping and changing and making the wrong choice of manager has got us nowhere. Man City went through exactly the same process as us in the summer, new owner, new manager, and new players. The excuse that we did not have time to buy the players Allardyce wanted because the new owner/chairman wasn't up to speed, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in the new chairman/owner. The truth is Man City have chopped and changed managers as much as us, but they made the right choice in Sven, a proven big club manager with quality trophies in his CV, whilst we yet again went for the cheap option of giving a "wannabe" a chance at the big time. As for those who say we will buy the players we need to turn the side around in the Jan window, we know from past experience that clubs just don't sell their best players then, so I would advise you all not to hold your breath waiting for quality signings because it just isn't going to happen. As for being patient, as a long suffering supporter and former season ticket holder when we were really really sh*t, isn't 40 years long enough to start expecting better! Manchester City already had a good settled spine to their team to build from. We didn't unfortunately. no they didn't they had a centre half (their captain), micah richards and a couple of young keepers. we had the debt and the missmanagement though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I can't f****** believe some of the comments in this thread, I really can't. I can. I sometimes think it's the club's Achilles Heel - the inability of fans to see the bigger picture and exhibit patience and support for what is clearly going to be a longer term rebuilding project. As Mort said, chopping and changing has got us absolutely nowhere. Sam said when he was appointed that there would be tough times ahead. Deep down when I heard him saying that I knew there'd be a section of the fanbase who would object to that instantly. What Mort should have said is, chopping and changing and making the wrong choice of manager has got us nowhere. Man City went through exactly the same process as us in the summer, new owner, new manager, and new players. The excuse that we did not have time to buy the players Allardyce wanted because the new owner/chairman wasn't up to speed, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in the new chairman/owner. The truth is Man City have chopped and changed managers as much as us, but they made the right choice in Sven, a proven big club manager with quality trophies in his CV, whilst we yet again went for the cheap option of giving a "wannabe" a chance at the big time. As for those who say we will buy the players we need to turn the side around in the Jan window, we know from past experience that clubs just don't sell their best players then, so I would advise you all not to hold your breath waiting for quality signings because it just isn't going to happen. As for being patient, as a long suffering supporter and former season ticket holder when we were really really sh*t, isn't 40 years long enough to start expecting better! Manchester City already had a good settled spine to their team to build from. We didn't unfortunately. no they didn't they had a centre half (their captain), micah richards and a couple of young keepers. we had the debt and the missmanagement though. Dunne, Richards, Johnson, Hamann, Ireland and Mpenza is their spine at the moment, and its the same spine they had for much of last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 One minor problem. We can't have a stable club with our current manager as he has already said he will retire when he's 55 so we've only got a few more years of him at most then he'll be off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 One minor problem. We can't have a stable club with our current manager as he has already said he will retire when he's 55 so we've only got a few more years of him at most then he'll be off. if we are doing well and he thinks he can take us further he'll stay. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I can't f****** believe some of the comments in this thread, I really can't. I can. I sometimes think it's the club's Achilles Heel - the inability of fans to see the bigger picture and exhibit patience and support for what is clearly going to be a longer term rebuilding project. As Mort said, chopping and changing has got us absolutely nowhere. Sam said when he was appointed that there would be tough times ahead. Deep down when I heard him saying that I knew there'd be a section of the fanbase who would object to that instantly. What Mort should have said is, chopping and changing and making the wrong choice of manager has got us nowhere. Man City went through exactly the same process as us in the summer, new owner, new manager, and new players. The excuse that we did not have time to buy the players Allardyce wanted because the new owner/chairman wasn't up to speed, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in the new chairman/owner. The truth is Man City have chopped and changed managers as much as us, but they made the right choice in Sven, a proven big club manager with quality trophies in his CV, whilst we yet again went for the cheap option of giving a "wannabe" a chance at the big time. As for those who say we will buy the players we need to turn the side around in the Jan window, we know from past experience that clubs just don't sell their best players then, so I would advise you all not to hold your breath waiting for quality signings because it just isn't going to happen. As for being patient, as a long suffering supporter and former season ticket holder when we were really really sh*t, isn't 40 years long enough to start expecting better! Manchester City already had a good settled spine to their team to build from. We didn't unfortunately. no they didn't they had a centre half (their captain), micah richards and a couple of young keepers. we had the debt and the missmanagement though. Dunne, Richards, Johnson, Hamann, Ireland and Mpenza is their spine at the moment, and its the same spine they had for much of last season. and we have Given, N'Zog, Martins, Owen, Emre and Butt. sven had a worse squad than allardyce when he took over. he had dunne as their only very good player, some good youngsters and a couple of average players in hamman and empenza (hamman isn't as good as he was). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 Yeah but so what really? That's the problem with so many fans imo. They can't see beyond the last couple of results. It's more important where we are two years down the line than it is nine matches into a new manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 One minor problem. We can't have a stable club with our current manager as he has already said he will retire when he's 55 so we've only got a few more years of him at most then he'll be off. if we are doing well and he thinks he can take us further he'll stay. I wouldn't be so sure. Don't get me wrong I'm not wanting shot of Sam even though he does do my head in sometimes with his stupid formation choices or player positioning (Milner left Charlie boy right ARGGHHHH) but I think as a club we must look to 3 years down the line and look at who we are going to bring in and how we are going to bring them in. Our problem in the past has been our search for the manager when one has left and the total change in players coaching staff etc. We need to make sure that's not there in the future. That of course means the next manager is part of the current staff ASAP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugsy Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 One minor problem. We can't have a stable club with our current manager as he has already said he will retire when he's 55 so we've only got a few more years of him at most then he'll be off. 2 years at a max - I wouldn't be surprised if McLaren gets sacked and England come calling we could be looking in a few weeks time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie jamie Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I dont think BS will accept England they turned him down before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugsy Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I dont think BS will accept England they turned him down before. Hope you are right, most likely true but I have a niggling doubt! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackyboy Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 What we see on the pitch is Sams end product. For that end product to be good it must be made up of good ingredients. The work needed to put those ingredients in place will take time and in the meantime we will have lots of ups and downs. There was nobody more pissed off with the last couple of results than me but sometimes teams learn more from a defeat than a victory. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted November 8, 2007 Share Posted November 8, 2007 I can't f****** believe some of the comments in this thread, I really can't. I can. I sometimes think it's the club's Achilles Heel - the inability of fans to see the bigger picture and exhibit patience and support for what is clearly going to be a longer term rebuilding project. As Mort said, chopping and changing has got us absolutely nowhere. Sam said when he was appointed that there would be tough times ahead. Deep down when I heard him saying that I knew there'd be a section of the fanbase who would object to that instantly. What Mort should have said is, chopping and changing and making the wrong choice of manager has got us nowhere. Man City went through exactly the same process as us in the summer, new owner, new manager, and new players. The excuse that we did not have time to buy the players Allardyce wanted because the new owner/chairman wasn't up to speed, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence in the new chairman/owner. The truth is Man City have chopped and changed managers as much as us, but they made the right choice in Sven, a proven big club manager with quality trophies in his CV, whilst we yet again went for the cheap option of giving a "wannabe" a chance at the big time. As for those who say we will buy the players we need to turn the side around in the Jan window, we know from past experience that clubs just don't sell their best players then, so I would advise you all not to hold your breath waiting for quality signings because it just isn't going to happen. As for being patient, as a long suffering supporter and former season ticket holder when we were really really sh*t, isn't 40 years long enough to start expecting better! Manchester City already had a good settled spine to their team to build from. We didn't unfortunately. no they didn't they had a centre half (their captain), micah richards and a couple of young keepers. we had the debt and the missmanagement though. Dunne, Richards, Johnson, Hamann, Ireland and Mpenza is their spine at the moment, and its the same spine they had for much of last season. I disagree here. Just going off stats, Ireland started only 14 league games, Johnson started 10, Mpenza started 9 (and only scored one) and Hamann started only 12! Their spine actually consisted of Dunne, Richards, Barton, Distin and fucking Darius Vassell (started 28 games). So they actually have lost half of their 'spine' from last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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