Mort: I’m in charge

[Liam Liam Liam O]

ne5 ...is this the synopsis then.

 

both ashley and fat fred were/are in it for the money. ashley with his own cash and fat fred using corporate structures,as yet fat fred took out all the time and it doesn't look like ashley has. fat fred tried to make the club succesful (thus boosting his value of his shareholding) where as ashley appears to be financially stabilising the club in order for it to provide for itself (or he may decide to splurge who knows ?).

 

fat fred put very little in and took millions out where as,as yet ashley has put millions in and took nowt out.

 

 

is this right ?

 

Ashley is paying for Shepherds financial mistakes at the minute.  No-one can dispute that

 

oh dear. If Ashley the businessman had paid due diligence when he took over, he would have known about the clubs accounts, or maybe he did and saw it as part of the overall package to buy the club ? What do you think, or are you one of those daft enough to suggest that he's done it for charity.

 

 

 

FFS you really don't have a clue do you? He'll be paying more than he could have been as a result of the poor financial decisions made by Shepherd & Co . 

 

Of course he'll have know about the clubs accounts etc., and of course he's bought the club as a package, but the cost of repairing the damage done is money which could have been spent elsewhere, ie on the team.

 

 

IF he had looked at the clubs accounts, and found them in perfect order [not very common in football, as I've explained and you are trying to ignore because it suits you].....do you think he would have bought the club for 130m quid ?

 

Laughable. Work it out.

 

Fact is, he's bought the club for 200m plus, and if he sells it on, he'll get his money back. This is kids stuff.

 

But it won't increase in value if he doesn't back his managers to try and compete with the top 4 clubs, like the last board did. THIS is a nailed on fact, and you can convince yourself as long as you like that it isn't true, but unfortunately in the real world, it is true.

 

 

 

Clearing the unmanagable debt will have cost him money that could have been spent elsewhere.  Re the bit in bold, what are you talking about?  What am I trying to ignore?  Of course he'll back the managers, nowhere have I suggested he won't! 

 

Keep lecturing me about how finance and company valuations and purchases work though, because I clearly don't know anything about it.

 

Do you sit at home and argue with yourself about stuff you haven't said?

 

eerrr.........

 

if the club had not had a stadium debt to clear, it may have cost him 200m to buy ?

 

Get it ?

 

Or do you think the club should have left the capacity at 36,000  mackems.gif

 

Are you suggesting that the clubs debt has solely arisen because of the stadium expansion? (There's that smiley again)

 

Also due to wasting money by Souness. However, we could have sat back, balanced the books, and got relegated rather than allow Roeder to buy Martins for instance. Do you understand this ?

 

Do you realise that the vast majority of football clubs have debts ?

 

Would you prefer us to put balancing the books before showing ambition ?

 

 

 

If the debt was well structured and managable why did he clear it?  Perhaps because it wasn't?  Where did I say other football clubs have no debt?

 

Rather than choosing one particular needed transfer, why not focus on the money Shepherd & Co have paid to the likes of Duff and Owen, and the amount of money people like MacKay and Shepherd Junior may or may not have made out of transfers involving the previous regime?

 

Its not about showing ambition , its about common sense and the fact is the mis-management of the previous regime has resulted in cash being used which could have been spent elsewhere.  As you would say, this is an indisputable fact.

 

Do you have a mortgage ? Would you clear it if you could ?

 

Blimey .......

 

Bit in bold is plain barmy. Why support a club with no ambition 

 

What do you think of the 87 clubs who haven't played in europe as often as us in the last decade, mismanaged or well managed ?

 

 

 

The comment about a mortgage clearly shows you don't have a clue what you're talking about.  If I could reinvest the money at a better rate than I was paying on my mortgage, then no i wouldn't clear my mortgage.  Its the cheapest form of debt I'll ever have.

 

No - the size of the debt is not about ambition.  Its about financial mismanagement, and lets be honest you knew exactly what I meant.  Why don't you ask some Leeds fans their opinion on the difference between ambition and irresponsible spending?

 

 

[Minhosa]

Those questions NE5?

 

You can put them in the 'too hard file' if you like, but just let me know.

 

Too many smilies.

 

Why don't you sing some Freddie songs next time you are at the ground - thats presuming you're still allowed in.

 

Very childish.

 

Why did the ex board attract you to the club BTW ? Much as I said I wouldn't bother replying to you again, I have to ask this, as I think its hilarious you admit this is when you started supporting the club

 

 

They didn't attract me. Supporting my local side did.

 

When exactly did you expect someone to 'own' their own first season ticket - given I was 12 at the time?

 

I know kids could run around the streets in your day but times had changed by the time I was a lad.

 

Those questions? I thought it might help if I kept reminding you?

 

What with your age and that. Oh, and Matron will be around at 5pm for your dinner, so just reply after she's wiped your mouth and washed your hands.

 

showing how childish you are again .......

 

Anyway, I accept you are young, but as you can't therefore accept that others have seen more than you so can tell you something ..... can't help you any further I'm afraid.

 

 

Any chance of those original questions being answered?

 

Didn't think so. Another few for the 'too hard file'.

 

Just post a few smilies and talk some bull about 'facts' and hope nobody notices that you're against the ropes.

 

By the way, hows the plan for buying Leeds going?

 

Oh, sorry I'm just being stupid................there wouldn't be a fucking plan Freddie would there?

 

Plans and strategies are for losers..........not geordies.

[NE5]

£100 million debt meant that it was time the last board moved on.

 

manure's debt is what exactly ?

 

Liverpools new stadium will cost them what exactly ?

 

Emirates Stadium cost what ?

 

Shame we weren't still playing in a ground that looked like my avatar, just think what we could have spent on players, like the old board did at that time 

 

 

[NE5]

Those questions NE5?

 

You can put them in the 'too hard file' if you like, but just let me know.

 

Too many smilies.

 

Why don't you sing some Freddie songs next time you are at the ground - thats presuming you're still allowed in.

 

Very childish.

 

Why did the ex board attract you to the club BTW ? Much as I said I wouldn't bother replying to you again, I have to ask this, as I think its hilarious you admit this is when you started supporting the club

 

 

They didn't attract me. Supporting my local side did.

 

When exactly did you expect someone to 'own' their own first season ticket - given I was 12 at the time?

 

I know kids could run around the streets in your day but times had changed by the time I was a lad.

 

Those questions? I thought it might help if I kept reminding you?

 

What with your age and that. Oh, and Matron will be around at 5pm for your dinner, so just reply after she's wiped your mouth and washed your hands.

 

showing how childish you are again .......

 

Anyway, I accept you are young, but as you can't therefore accept that others have seen more than you so can tell you something ..... can't help you any further I'm afraid.

 

 

Any chance of those original questions being answered?

 

Didn't think so. Another few for the 'too hard file'.

 

Just post a few smilies and talk some bull about 'facts' and hope nobody notices that you're against the ropes.

 

By the way, hows the plan for buying Leeds going?

 

Oh, sorry I'm just being stupid................there wouldn't be a fucking plan Freddie would there?

 

Plans and strategies are for losers..........not geordies.

 

Tell you what son, you find me a manu or Liverpool fan who are bothered about money spent on stadiums when they are buying top quality "trophy" players, or a Chelsea fan bothered about Abramovic's backround, then tell me who is stupid ?

 

 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

manure's debt is what exactly ?

 

Liverpools new stadium will cost them what exactly ?

 

Emirates Stadium cost what ?

 

 

Their European revenues over the last ten years compared to ours are........

[Guest BooBoo]

I thought recently that NE5 had showed himself/ herself to be an improving poster. However, this thread simply shows how arrogant, smug and generally unlikeable he really is.

 

For shame.

[Howaythelads]

 

I've had a season ticket for 15 years by the way.

 

When are you going to answer my original questions?

 

Do you need me to send you some reading glasses?

 

How old are you?

 

Cheers

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

Tell you what son, you find me a manu or Liverpool fan who are bothered about money spent on stadiums when they are buying top quality "trophy" players, or a Chelsea fan bothered about Abramovic's backround, then tell me who is stupid ?

 

 

 

http://www.joinmust.org/thefacts/theirdebt.php

 

tbh

[Minhosa]

Those questions NE5?

 

You can put them in the 'too hard file' if you like, but just let me know.

 

Too many smilies.

 

Why don't you sing some Freddie songs next time you are at the ground - thats presuming you're still allowed in.

 

Very childish.

 

Why did the ex board attract you to the club BTW ? Much as I said I wouldn't bother replying to you again, I have to ask this, as I think its hilarious you admit this is when you started supporting the club

 

 

They didn't attract me. Supporting my local side did.

 

When exactly did you expect someone to 'own' their own first season ticket - given I was 12 at the time?

 

I know kids could run around the streets in your day but times had changed by the time I was a lad.

 

Those questions? I thought it might help if I kept reminding you?

 

What with your age and that. Oh, and Matron will be around at 5pm for your dinner, so just reply after she's wiped your mouth and washed your hands.

 

showing how childish you are again .......

 

Anyway, I accept you are young, but as you can't therefore accept that others have seen more than you so can tell you something ..... can't help you any further I'm afraid.

 

 

Any chance of those original questions being answered?

 

Didn't think so. Another few for the 'too hard file'.

 

Just post a few smilies and talk some bull about 'facts' and hope nobody notices that you're against the ropes.

 

By the way, hows the plan for buying Leeds going?

 

Oh, sorry I'm just being stupid................there wouldn't be a fucking plan Freddie would there?

 

Plans and strategies are for losers..........not geordies.

 

Tell you what son, you find me a manu or Liverpool fan who are bothered about money spent on stadiums when they are buying top quality "trophy" players, or a Chelsea fan bothered about Abramovic's backround, then tell me who is stupid ?

 

 

What you talking about 'dad'?

 

I didn't mention anything about Stadiums or trophy players.

 

Christ, it must be your age -  your forgetting whose who on here Granda.

 

By the way, you've spent 62 days of your life posting on this site according to your stats. Christ, 62 days trying to argue your case and finding hardly anyone to listen or respect your 'FFS' views.

 

So much to offer yet so little respect for the elder statesman.

 

Shame.

[Dr Venkman]

 

manure's debt is what exactly ?

 

Liverpools new stadium will cost them what exactly ?

 

Emirates Stadium cost what ?

 

 

Their European revenues over the last ten years compared to ours are........

 

ahh yes, but if you look at OUR european revenues compared to teams that have lesser european revenues, then everything he says makes sense

[Minhosa]

 

I've had a season ticket for 15 years by the way.

 

When are you going to answer my original questions?

 

Do you need me to send you some reading glasses?

 

How old are you?

 

Cheers

 

I've had a season ticket for 15 years by the way.

 

When are you going to answer my original questions?

 

Do you need me to send you some reading glasses?

 

How old are you?

 

Cheers

 

I'm 27.

[Howaythelads]

I thought recently that NE5 had showed himself/ herself to be an improving poster. However, this thread simply shows how arrogant, smug and generally unlikeable he really is.

 

For shame.

 

Being critical of someone else is a bit rich coming from someone who is proud of sitting in the Gallowgate end laughing at and booing our own players..... 

 

[Dr Venkman]

I thought recently that NE5 had showed himself/ herself to be an improving poster. However, this thread simply shows how arrogant, smug and generally unlikeable he really is.

 

For shame.

 

and we wonder why he finds such affinity with shepherd?

[Thespence]

Ashley cleared the debt to save himself cash over the long term. As the loans were against Newcastle United PLC it was the CLUB that backed manager & not an individual or group of individuals.  Sir John, Fred were not like Jack Walker or Roman but as I said elsewhere in this now mammoth thread they have brought something to club  we had not for a while HOPE . There is also now a generation of Newcastle fans which have never tasted relegation which I think is probably goes unnoticed by many but I think that is the  last crowds greatest achievement.

 

[Howaythelads]

 

I've had a season ticket for 15 years by the way.

 

When are you going to answer my original questions?

 

Do you need me to send you some reading glasses?

 

How old are you?

 

Cheers

 

I've had a season ticket for 15 years by the way.

 

When are you going to answer my original questions?

 

Do you need me to send you some reading glasses?

 

How old are you?

 

Cheers

 

I'm 27.

 

Ta

[Guest BooBoo]

I thought recently that NE5 had showed himself/ herself to be an improving poster. However, this thread simply shows how arrogant, smug and generally unlikeable he really is.

 

For shame.

 

Being critical of someone else is a bit rich coming from someone who is proud of sitting in the Gallowgate end laughing at and booing our own players..... 

 

 

 

You dont have a bloody clue do you?

 

;D

[Howaythelads]

Those questions NE5?

 

You can put them in the 'too hard file' if you like, but just let me know.

 

Too many smilies.

 

Why don't you sing some Freddie songs next time you are at the ground - thats presuming you're still allowed in.

 

Very childish.

 

Why did the ex board attract you to the club BTW ? Much as I said I wouldn't bother replying to you again, I have to ask this, as I think its hilarious you admit this is when you started supporting the club

 

 

They didn't attract me. Supporting my local side did.

 

When exactly did you expect someone to 'own' their own first season ticket - given I was 12 at the time?

 

I know kids could run around the streets in your day but times had changed by the time I was a lad.

 

Those questions? I thought it might help if I kept reminding you?

 

What with your age and that. Oh, and Matron will be around at 5pm for your dinner, so just reply after she's wiped your mouth and washed your hands.

 

You've been making some decent points mate, but you're letting yourself down with stuff like this.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

I've had a season ticket for 15 years by the way.

 

When are you going to answer my original questions?

 

Do you need me to send you some reading glasses?

 

How old are you?

 

Cheers

 

I've had a season ticket for 15 years by the way.

 

When are you going to answer my original questions?

 

Do you need me to send you some reading glasses?

 

How old are you?

 

Cheers

 

I'm 27.

 

Ta

 

That was going to be my guess when he said he got his first season ticket aged 12 which was apparently 15 years ago.

[Minhosa]

Thats the way it goes HTL when you've got someone harp on about how many games they've seen and refer to me as 'son'.

 

Zero respect due I'm afraid.

[Dr Venkman]

chomp

[Howaythelads]

 

If the debt was well structured and managable  why did he clear it?   Perhaps because it wasn't? Where did I say other football clubs have no debt?

 

Rather than choosing one particular needed transfer, why not focus on the money Shepherd & Co have paid to the likes of Duff and Owen, and the amount of money people like MacKay and Shepherd Junior may or may not have made out of transfers involving the previous regime?

 

Its not about showing ambition, its about common sense and the fact is the mis-management of the previous regime has resulted in cash being used which could have been spent elsewhere.  As you would say, this is an indisputable fact.

 

Had to laugh at the bit in bold.

 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

If the debt was well structured and managable  why did he clear it?   Perhaps because it wasn't? Where did I say other football clubs have no debt?

 

Rather than choosing one particular needed transfer, why not focus on the money Shepherd & Co have paid to the likes of Duff and Owen, and the amount of money people like MacKay and Shepherd Junior may or may not have made out of transfers involving the previous regime?

 

Its not about showing ambition, its about common sense and the fact is the mis-management of the previous regime has resulted in cash being used which could have been spent elsewhere.  As you would say, this is an indisputable fact.

 

Had to laugh at the bit in bold.

 

 

only because you dont understand it tbh. 

[Guest Knightrider]

Wasn't Shepherd part of the old board pre SJH? Is he therefore responsible for those bad old days like he's responsible for the success in some eyes under SJH because he was also part of that board too?

 

quite shocked you are stooping to this level mate.

 

The answer is no, by the way.

 

Sir John was though, but resigned when the initial flotation failed due to lack of interest, failing to raise half of 2.5m quid.

 

This is fact by the way, because I put in to buy shares, and had my cheque returned.

 

 

 

 

 

You know me, I admit I can't stand FS and regard his time here as an ultimate failure. I admit my bias.

 

However, if you are claiming FS as part of the board under Sir John Hall deserves credit for those years then by your same logic, he deserves criticism for being part of the old board before SJH which he was. You are quick to highlight how FS played a role in KK's arrival and use that to defend him, but what about the role as a director or member of the old board he played in the club's woes pre-SJH?

 

Anyway, just to show how much of a turncoat FS was, he was very much on the side of the old board until SJH flashed him some money.

 

Oh and I just can't defend a crook.

 

Did I say crook, sorry I meant cock.

 

Sorry mate, you're showing your selective memory, guilty of putting personalities before judgements like some others.

 

lets hope Ashley and Mort back their managers more than the old board shall we ? I hope you don't claim they are "better", until they have proved it. Having said that, if the old board were such "cocks", they should be doing better already, for an example see the mackems since Niall Quinn took over from cocks, or for another example, see our own takeover in 1992 when they took over from cocks.

 

I hope you can understand this, but I have my doubts I must be honest.

 

 

 

Honestly NE5, I can't defend the man or turn a cheek to what I know. For sure he has done good things and I'm sure he isn't alone in footy but for me, as a so-called NUFC fan, well, I don't know how he can live with himself. SJH was never like that yet he had more scope to do what FS did, not even DH was like that and he had good reason to. Do you not find it suspicious how the takeover all came about like it did and why the Halls wanted out like they did, behind FS's back? They didn't want to be dragged down with it because that's what was going to happen. Only in years to come will we realise what an escape we've had thanks to Ashley and co. I dread to think what would have happened if FS was allowed to carry on or worse still, buy the club for himself.

 

I'll give you a clue, the warehouse carry on, but x10. I'm not surprised MA enlisted the help of a legal expert, the mess... The last thing you want to do is for something you've just bought for all that money to be confiscated by the old bill and investigated...

 

I'll say no more.

 

FS good for NUFC? He had us on the road to ruin man.

 

Rubbish tbh. The Halls wanted out because they wanted their money. They had touted the club for a while, and were prepared to sell to anyone for the price.

 

I don't give a toss about a warehouse BTW. Unfortunately, in business [which people like to peddle when it suits them it seems], such things happen everywhere.

 

Don't you also consider the fact that Sports Direct has replaced the club badge on the top of the GAllowgate stand a conflict of interest, or the adverts for Sports Direct.com if such things bother you ?

 

If not, why not ?

 

 

 

SHJ didn't want out under Sir Bobby, which was only 3 years ago. And if SJH was prepared to sell to anyone, why didn't he sell to Belgravia and why didn't he sell to all those interested parties Freddy Shepherd is down on record as wanting to buy the club? SJH wanted out because the club HE built was going to shit and was in financial and other mess and he didn't want his good name to go down with it. If it was about money, why did he do things secretly, why did he not invite offers which would have surely led to other bidders entering the fray? Why did he not sell out to Belgravia despite their interest as I've already mentioned? Why Ashley? Why the months of talks between the two, in secret? Could it be that he found out about certain things and thought, fuck this for a game of snooker, and actually used his contacts to find someone he could trust to buy the club and sort the mess out FS was creating?

 

Anyway as far as I'm concerned SJH didn't tout the club, if anything it was Shepherd doing that by letting the world and his dog know that the club were receiving offers right left and centre.

 

You should give a toss about the warehouse btw because there was more than one "warehouse" kind of deal being done behind closed doors, deals that lead to our mounting debts and of course, added to the Shepherds and their cronies growing wealth.

 

You criticised Souness for wasting money on Boumsong and Luque et al yet for the record, you defend this:

 

1 Warehouse owned by NUFC sold to Bruce Shepherd for pennies then rented back by NUFC for hundreds of thousands, a warehouse that let me tell you stood empty. If that isn't wasting club money I don't know what is.

 

I agree such deals do happen in business and especially in football, but it shouldn't. Here you have the Chairman who likes to call himself a died in the wool Geordie and a NUFC fan, basically robbing fans of their money to fund his own ventures with his brother, all at the expense of the club's best interests which is to get value for money and in some cases, save money, not flagrantly waste it and in a less than legitimate way too. How you can defend that or not give a toss yet pull up Souness for example for wasting money on players is not only hypocritical but shocking. This is our club here we are talking about, you may not care where the money goes to and what on (you clearly do if it's a manager you don't like behind it) but I do and so do most fans I imagine (I hope). The PLC certainly care as well, as does the fraud office. Ashley obviously cares too. Perhaps that's why football is so bent, too few people caring so long as they get their trophy signings, fed bullshit in the media and because, well hey, things could be worse, we could be back in the 70s and 80s. Well fucking sorry but I don't want to gloss over what I class as mismanagement at it's worst.

 

As for Ashley, he can do whatever he likes, it's his club, the money is his.

 

I guarantee you though, the more money Sports Direct makes, the more it will benefit Newcastle United. The more money FS made, the less the club made. If you don't believe me look at what FS made out of NUFC and correlate it with what he left us with, over £100m in debt. This from a club that was cash rich before he took over as Chairman of both the Board and the PLC. And you have the audacity to say he was a good Chairman because we finished in the top 5 a few times. Big fucking deal.

 

Alan Shearer regarded those finishes as failure. They were nice, but nothing to fucking brag about. Not when Villa with a Chairman you used as the anti-FS have an equal average record to us.... and ask Brummie what Villa fans think about the past 10 years. You won's see many "5th best" crap on their forums.

 

Oh and how can Sports Direct badges be a conflict of interest? You're clearly showing your bias here and dislike for the new board, the people who got rid of the cancer at Newcastle. Fat fucking Freddy Shepherd and his cronies and their scamming ways.

 

Honestly mate, it's hilarious how you're comparing Ashley and Co to FS and Co (what is it, 6 months?). Ashley in wiping out the debt alone has giving more to this club than FS ever did or could. We can now compete and our future is guaranteed. Under FS it went from one crisis to another, it was only a matter of time before we fell off that cliff he had us close to, Sir John Hall realised this and took decisive action. You should be thankful there is a bloke out their willing to underwrite the years of mismanagement and with it give us a platform to get back to where we were before FS got his dorty hands on the club.

 

But because the new Chairman isn't spouting his head off that there is this and that to spend or that we are going to do this and that in January, this fucking thread reaches 20 odd pages?

 

Have a word man.

[Howaythelads]

Ashley cleared the debt to save himself cash over the long term. As the loans were against Newcastle United PLC it was the CLUB that backed manager & not an individual or group of individuals.  Sir John, Fred were not like Jack Walker or Roman but as I said elsewhere in this now mammoth thread they have brought something to club  we had not for a while HOPE . There is also now a generation of Newcastle fans which have never tasted relegation which I think is probably goes unnoticed by many but I think that is the  last crowds greatest achievement.

 

 

Decent post.

 

Just wanted to be clear that nobody has said Fred ever used his own money to back any of the managers of the club.

 

Of course the money spent on players was the club's money. Spending this money had to be sanctioned by the board and that is what is meant by people when they say, "the board backed the manager in the transfer market." This takes ambition that is not automatic. For decades, previous Board's of Newcastle United did not have the ambition to sanction such a challenge, hence we were often relegated, usually finished mid table to bottom half when we were in the top flight and regularly sold our best players to more ambitious clubs like West Ham and the nappy rippers, for example.

[Minhosa]

Good post HTT.

 

It's abundantly clear who has an agenda on here.