Mort: I’m in charge

[Guest Sniffer]

I was going by what I recall of his body language at the time, Mick. I think what you say and how you appear can be two different things. He could see that the writing was on the wall.

[Howaythelads]

What NE5 is saying is pretty much as I remember it. Most fans, and even SBR himself it seemed, had accepted that it was time for a change.

 

Aye. Absolutely correct.

[Howaythelads]

Then you were in the minority in not wanting a change.

 

Subsequent events obviously could not be foreseen and had no impact on the decision

 

Absolutely correct. Again.

 

 

[Mick]

Then you were in the minority in not wanting a change.

 

Subsequent events obviously could not be foreseen and had no impact on the decision

 

Which subsequent events couldn't be foreseen?

 

That we struggled to appoint somebody after Gullit should have sounded a few alarm bells.  Sacking a manager at the wrong time sometimes becomes inevitable because of poor results, the timing of Robson getting the bullet was both premature and short sighted.

 

Appointing Souness was easily a disaster from the minute he was announced, foresight obviously wasn't our strong point but the outcome was so predictable.

[Mick]

I was going by what I recall of his body language at the time, Mick. I think what you say and how you appear can be two different things. He could see that the writing was on the wall.

 

I didn't see anything in his body language to suggest that he was expecting the sack, I'm not sure what you could see.  Why would he expect the sack when our league campaign was no worse than the couple before and had finished the season in a reasonable league position?

[madras]

I was going by what I recall of his body language at the time, Mick. I think what you say and how you appear can be two different things. He could see that the writing was on the wall.

 

I didn't see anything in his body language to suggest that he was expecting the sack, I'm not sure what you could see.  Why would he expect the sack when our league campaign was no worse than the couple before and had finished the season in a reasonable league position?

there was a massive difference between the season the 2 seasons. yes we finished in a reasonable league position but like the mackems under peter reid you could feel the tide change, they kept him when all the fans knew change was needed,we did the same with robson. he should have gone at the end of the season.

[NE5]

Then you were in the minority in not wanting a change.

 

Subsequent events obviously could not be foreseen and had no impact on the decision

 

Which subsequent events couldn't be foreseen?

 

That we struggled to appoint somebody after Gullit should have sounded a few alarm bells.  Sacking a manager at the wrong time sometimes becomes inevitable because of poor results, the timing of Robson getting the bullet was both premature and short sighted.

 

Appointing Souness was easily a disaster from the minute he was announced, foresight obviously wasn't our strong point but the outcome was so predictable.

 

completely or deliberately misunderstanding and misrepresenting the point. As usual.

 

 

[NE5]

I was going by what I recall of his body language at the time, Mick. I think what you say and how you appear can be two different things. He could see that the writing was on the wall.

 

I didn't see anything in his body language to suggest that he was expecting the sack, I'm not sure what you could see.  Why would he expect the sack when our league campaign was no worse than the couple before and had finished the season in a reasonable league position?

there was a massive difference between the season the 2 seasons. yes we finished in a reasonable league position but like the mackems under peter reid you could feel the tide change, they kept him when all the fans knew change was needed,we did the same with robson. he should have gone at the end of the season.

 

thats him, re-writing history again to favour his agenda, sorted.

 

Absolutely correct, thats 4 of us telling him. He'll probably still dispute it though 

[fredbob]

the quickest way is to spend money you don't have.

 

I'll eagerly await the "big four" apart from Chelsea and most of the rest of the teams in the league going into administration then.

 

Strange how all these people who are slating having ambiton are unable to see this is how the top 4 became the top 4, and our relative success in our recent past has also came as a result of the same thing. Do they really think you can be successful unless you try to compete at the top levels ?

 

Quite amazing.

 

 

 

Do you not think that it acould also be due to the fact they made astute appointments and didnt sack them as regularly as they changed their pants.?

[Northern Monkey]

the quickest way is to spend money you don't have.

 

I'll eagerly await the "big four" apart from Chelsea and most of the rest of the teams in the league going into administration then.

 

Strange how all these people who are slating having ambiton are unable to see this is how the top 4 became the top 4, and our relative success in our recent past has also came as a result of the same thing. Do they really think you can be successful unless you try to compete at the top levels ?

 

Quite amazing.

 

 

 

Do you not think that it acould also be due to the fact they made astute appointments and didnt sack them as regularly as they changed their pants.?

 

Damned right. Lets sack pathetic Fat Sam, get a GOOD manager in, and stick by them. Then we can all be happy again. And not shite.

[fredbob]

The Emirates will pay itself off, that's why it's not a massive financial risk. The naming thing has already secured Arsenal £150m or so, so they're well on their way to securing enough money to pay for it.

 

And the other three, even though they have debts that would be massive risks for most clubs, they've got rich owners who can deal with it.

 

You would have said the same about the SJP expansion 5 years ago

 

And? 5 years ago no one could have predicted that we would be in the freefall that we were at the end of Fred's time. That's stunning, don't you think? 10 years ago I don't think many predicted that we'd be in financial trouble and our future would be looking seemingly bleak. That's the main thing I've been trying to say so far, though god knows I've tried my best to sound as confusing as possible.

 

???

 

And in 5 years time Wenger may have let and Arsenal may be struggling to get 8th place in the Premier league.

 

You've said exactly what I was getting at, the Emirates looks sound now, SJP look sound 5 years ago

 

Aye, the MANAGER makes a massive difference, which is where we went wrong with the appointment of Souness, obviously.

 

.....or even the sacking of SBR?

 

didn't hear too many voices against it at the time.

 

Never mind, after today, do you hope the club continue carrying on putting the books first, standby for more real mediocrity or worse. I thought when the Halls and Shepherd left, all this mediocrity would come to an end. I reckon we need a few of these quality trophy players to get up the league a bit, don't you

 

 

 

I've always been unhappy with the sacking of SBR.

 

I dont know what agenda you have me trying to push but you have the wrong man, i wasnt for Shepard during his reign as chairmen, although i supported most of his decisions. I am not one of these people who think the new board are magically sorting out all the problems, but i am extremely encouraged by what has already occured with the new board, but i feel obliged to respond to some absolute stupendous critism of the new board which is borderline idiotic. considering that we are 5 months into their ownership. Whehther you turn out to be correct or wrong is irrelevant to me but to sit there and criticise something so quickly with absolutley NOTHING solid to back it up except for some loose misinterpretation is mind boggling to me.

 

Idiotic.

 

A simple FACT, dear boy, is that Sir Bobby Robson's team was booed for only finishing 5th, this epitomised the feeling of a lot of fans at that time. I would presume those who booed the team that day were the same people - like booboo - who laugh at the team when they aren't performing well.

 

I'm not saying that you were one of those, because I don't know, but what I do know is if you ignore this comment, you are ignoring history. So don't start laying the blame at the feet of the board, they acted in what was thought was the decision to be made at the time. Most fans backed it - even those who didn't shamefully boo - the only problem was the replacement. What a shame we didn't find the next Arsene Wenger though during the last decade eh, how incompetent can you get

 

 

 

they acted in what was thought was the decision to be made at the time

 

And turned out to be wrong, hence my point about the mistake occuring at the sacking of SBR and not the appointment of Souness.

 

[NE5]

The Emirates will pay itself off, that's why it's not a massive financial risk. The naming thing has already secured Arsenal £150m or so, so they're well on their way to securing enough money to pay for it.

 

And the other three, even though they have debts that would be massive risks for most clubs, they've got rich owners who can deal with it.

 

You would have said the same about the SJP expansion 5 years ago

 

And? 5 years ago no one could have predicted that we would be in the freefall that we were at the end of Fred's time. That's stunning, don't you think? 10 years ago I don't think many predicted that we'd be in financial trouble and our future would be looking seemingly bleak. That's the main thing I've been trying to say so far, though god knows I've tried my best to sound as confusing as possible.

 

???

 

And in 5 years time Wenger may have let and Arsenal may be struggling to get 8th place in the Premier league.

 

You've said exactly what I was getting at, the Emirates looks sound now, SJP look sound 5 years ago

 

Aye, the MANAGER makes a massive difference, which is where we went wrong with the appointment of Souness, obviously.

 

.....or even the sacking of SBR?

 

didn't hear too many voices against it at the time.

 

Never mind, after today, do you hope the club continue carrying on putting the books first, standby for more real mediocrity or worse. I thought when the Halls and Shepherd left, all this mediocrity would come to an end. I reckon we need a few of these quality trophy players to get up the league a bit, don't you

 

 

 

I've always been unhappy with the sacking of SBR.

 

I dont know what agenda you have me trying to push but you have the wrong man, i wasnt for Shepard during his reign as chairmen, although i supported most of his decisions. I am not one of these people who think the new board are magically sorting out all the problems, but i am extremely encouraged by what has already occured with the new board, but i feel obliged to respond to some absolute stupendous critism of the new board which is borderline idiotic. considering that we are 5 months into their ownership. Whehther you turn out to be correct or wrong is irrelevant to me but to sit there and criticise something so quickly with absolutley NOTHING solid to back it up except for some loose misinterpretation is mind boggling to me.

 

Idiotic.

 

A simple FACT, dear boy, is that Sir Bobby Robson's team was booed for only finishing 5th, this epitomised the feeling of a lot of fans at that time. I would presume those who booed the team that day were the same people - like booboo - who laugh at the team when they aren't performing well.

 

I'm not saying that you were one of those, because I don't know, but what I do know is if you ignore this comment, you are ignoring history. So don't start laying the blame at the feet of the board, they acted in what was thought was the decision to be made at the time. Most fans backed it - even those who didn't shamefully boo - the only problem was the replacement. What a shame we didn't find the next Arsene Wenger though during the last decade eh, how incompetent can you get

 

 

 

they acted in what was thought was the decision to be made at the time

 

And turned out to be wrong, hence my point about the mistake occuring at the sacking of SBR and not the appointment of Souness.

 

 

oh dear.

 

You still don't get it.

 

 

[NE5]

the quickest way is to spend money you don't have.

 

I'll eagerly await the "big four" apart from Chelsea and most of the rest of the teams in the league going into administration then.

 

Strange how all these people who are slating having ambiton are unable to see this is how the top 4 became the top 4, and our relative success in our recent past has also came as a result of the same thing. Do they really think you can be successful unless you try to compete at the top levels ?

 

Quite amazing.

 

 

Do you not think that it acould also be due to the fact they made astute appointments and didnt sack them as regularly as they changed their pants.?

 

Well, are you saying we should have stuck with Dalglish ?

 

Or Gullit, and not therefore appointed Bobby Robson when we did ?

 

 

[NE5]

the quickest way is to spend money you don't have.

 

I'll eagerly await the "big four" apart from Chelsea and most of the rest of the teams in the league going into administration then.

 

Strange how all these people who are slating having ambiton are unable to see this is how the top 4 became the top 4, and our relative success in our recent past has also came as a result of the same thing. Do they really think you can be successful unless you try to compete at the top levels ?

 

Quite amazing.

 

 

 

Do you not think that it acould also be due to the fact they made astute appointments and didnt sack them as regularly as they changed their pants.?

 

Damned right. Lets sack pathetic Fat Sam, get a GOOD manager in, and stick by them. Then we can all be happy again. And not shite.

 

Like proven winners such as Dalglish and Gullit ?

 

 

[Mick]

Then you were in the minority in not wanting a change.

 

Subsequent events obviously could not be foreseen and had no impact on the decision

 

Which subsequent events couldn't be foreseen?

 

That we struggled to appoint somebody after Gullit should have sounded a few alarm bells.  Sacking a manager at the wrong time sometimes becomes inevitable because of poor results, the timing of Robson getting the bullet was both premature and short sighted.

 

Appointing Souness was easily a disaster from the minute he was announced, foresight obviously wasn't our strong point but the outcome was so predictable.

 

completely or deliberately misunderstanding and misrepresenting the point. As usual.

 

 

 

Try correcting it in your opinion then.

[NE5]

Then you were in the minority in not wanting a change.

 

Subsequent events obviously could not be foreseen and had no impact on the decision

 

Which subsequent events couldn't be foreseen?

 

That we struggled to appoint somebody after Gullit should have sounded a few alarm bells.  Sacking a manager at the wrong time sometimes becomes inevitable because of poor results, the timing of Robson getting the bullet was both premature and short sighted.

 

Appointing Souness was easily a disaster from the minute he was announced, foresight obviously wasn't our strong point but the outcome was so predictable.

 

completely or deliberately misunderstanding and misrepresenting the point. As usual.

 

 

 

Try correcting it in your opinion then.

 

Well, 4 of us have attempted to make you understand, but as usual, anything that misrepresents Fred is your "opinion"

 

 

[Mick]

 

thats him, re-writing history again to favour his agenda, sorted.

 

Absolutely correct, thats 4 of us telling him. He'll probably still dispute it though 

 

It's got nothing to do with re-writing history, my comments are based on facts.  Robson had two bad starts before he was sacked and he'd managed to turn things around, who is to say that he couldn't have done it again?

[Mick]

 

Well, 4 of us have attempted to make you understand, but as usual, anything that misrepresents Fred is your "opinion"

 

 

 

I thought not.

[NE5]

 

thats him, re-writing history again to favour his agenda, sorted.

 

Absolutely correct, thats 4 of us telling him. He'll probably still dispute it though 

 

It's got nothing to do with re-writing history, my comments are based on facts.  Robson had two bad starts before he was sacked and he'd managed to turn things around, who is to say that he couldn't have done it again?

 

FACT ... is what all 4 of us have tried to tell you. The vast majority of people sensed we needed a change, including the board.  And the players - and  BR - were soundly given the bird for only finishing 5th. Take it or leave it, but don't re-write history and say they weren't, because they were.

 

 

[NE5]

 

Well, 4 of us have attempted to make you understand, but as usual, anything that misrepresents Fred is your "opinion"

 

 

 

I thought not.

 

yep, you can't think of much, especially if its factually based, or isn't anti Fred.

 

 

[fredbob]

The Emirates will pay itself off, that's why it's not a massive financial risk. The naming thing has already secured Arsenal £150m or so, so they're well on their way to securing enough money to pay for it.

 

And the other three, even though they have debts that would be massive risks for most clubs, they've got rich owners who can deal with it.

 

You would have said the same about the SJP expansion 5 years ago

 

And? 5 years ago no one could have predicted that we would be in the freefall that we were at the end of Fred's time. That's stunning, don't you think? 10 years ago I don't think many predicted that we'd be in financial trouble and our future would be looking seemingly bleak. That's the main thing I've been trying to say so far, though god knows I've tried my best to sound as confusing as possible.

 

???

 

And in 5 years time Wenger may have let and Arsenal may be struggling to get 8th place in the Premier league.

 

You've said exactly what I was getting at, the Emirates looks sound now, SJP look sound 5 years ago

 

Aye, the MANAGER makes a massive difference, which is where we went wrong with the appointment of Souness, obviously.

 

.....or even the sacking of SBR?

 

didn't hear too many voices against it at the time.

 

Never mind, after today, do you hope the club continue carrying on putting the books first, standby for more real mediocrity or worse. I thought when the Halls and Shepherd left, all this mediocrity would come to an end. I reckon we need a few of these quality trophy players to get up the league a bit, don't you

 

 

 

I've always been unhappy with the sacking of SBR.

 

I dont know what agenda you have me trying to push but you have the wrong man, i wasnt for Shepard during his reign as chairmen, although i supported most of his decisions. I am not one of these people who think the new board are magically sorting out all the problems, but i am extremely encouraged by what has already occured with the new board, but i feel obliged to respond to some absolute stupendous critism of the new board which is borderline idiotic. considering that we are 5 months into their ownership. Whehther you turn out to be correct or wrong is irrelevant to me but to sit there and criticise something so quickly with absolutley NOTHING solid to back it up except for some loose misinterpretation is mind boggling to me.

 

Idiotic.

 

A simple FACT, dear boy, is that Sir Bobby Robson's team was booed for only finishing 5th, this epitomised the feeling of a lot of fans at that time. I would presume those who booed the team that day were the same people - like booboo - who laugh at the team when they aren't performing well.

 

I'm not saying that you were one of those, because I don't know, but what I do know is if you ignore this comment, you are ignoring history. So don't start laying the blame at the feet of the board, they acted in what was thought was the decision to be made at the time. Most fans backed it - even those who didn't shamefully boo - the only problem was the replacement. What a shame we didn't find the next Arsene Wenger though during the last decade eh, how incompetent can you get

 

 

 

they acted in what was thought was the decision to be made at the time

 

And turned out to be wrong, hence my point about the mistake occuring at the sacking of SBR and not the appointment of Souness.

 

 

oh dear.

 

You still don't get it.

 

 

 

Clearly..... if you make a decision, no matter how good the intentions and merits of the decision, if it transpires to be a bad decision then you take responsibilty for that decision. I'm saying that the sacking of SBR is where we went wrong, not the appointment of Souness.

 

I think SBR was a victim of what happened against Partizan Belgrade at the beginning of the season, that and his age. Im saying that the majority of fans who thought it was right to sack him, were wrong.  Yes i saw the season, and the football wasnt as good as the precedining seasons, but despite this we still finished 5th. That speaks volumes to me.

[fredbob]

the quickest way is to spend money you don't have.

 

I'll eagerly await the "big four" apart from Chelsea and most of the rest of the teams in the league going into administration then.

 

Strange how all these people who are slating having ambiton are unable to see this is how the top 4 became the top 4, and our relative success in our recent past has also came as a result of the same thing. Do they really think you can be successful unless you try to compete at the top levels ?

 

Quite amazing.

 

 

Do you not think that it acould also be due to the fact they made astute appointments and didnt sack them as regularly as they changed their pants.?

 

Well, are you saying we should have stuck with Dalglish ?

 

Or Gullit, and not therefore appointed Bobby Robson when we did ?

 

 

 

Been here before mate, the appointments arent what im scrutinizing, the 2 major responsiblities of the board are the appointment of the right manager adn the backing of the manager, for years, like the top 4 we have backied the manager, but when it comes to appointing and sticking by the right manager, we've failed miserably, and it kinda shows in the urrent gulf of class between us and the top 4.

 

Im saying that the rotation of managers is the reason why we're behind the top4.

[Mick]

 

FACT ... is what all 4 of us have tried to tell you. The vast majority of people sensed we needed a change, including the board.  And the players - and  BR - were soundly given the bird for only finishing 5th. Take it or leave it, but don't re-write history and say they weren't, because they were.

 

 

 

Does the 'vast majority' as you put it thinking that we needed a change make it right?  Where have I said that they were not given the bird for finishing 5th?

[fredbob]

 

thats him, re-writing history again to favour his agenda, sorted.

 

Absolutely correct, thats 4 of us telling him. He'll probably still dispute it though 

 

It's got nothing to do with re-writing history, my comments are based on facts.  Robson had two bad starts before he was sacked and he'd managed to turn things around, who is to say that he couldn't have done it again?

 

FACT ... is what all 4 of us have tried to tell you. The vast majority of people sensed we needed a change, including the board.  And the players - and  BR - were soundly given the bird for only finishing 5th. Take it or leave it, but don't re-write history and say they weren't, because they were.

 

 

 

Crikey, "only finishing 5th"

 

Let me tell you young man, if you were around pre 1992 when we had  really shit boards only finishing 5th wouldnt be part of your vocabulary. You should of seen of league finishings in the previous 30 years.

[Dave]

'The vast majority of people sensed we needed a change.'

 

Does that make it right with Shepherd as well then?