Guest Ridzuan Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Butt is probably supporting Sam because he got a contract extension,but still he has a point but nothing new. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BillyRay Valentine Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 a thought for all those people writing off cacapa and enrique as rubbish - remember vidic and evra's first 6 months or so at man yoo? moments of quality mixed in with piles of mistakes as they tried to get to grips with the pace and physicality of the prem - now look at them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 a thought for all those people writing off cacapa and enrique as rubbish - remember vidic and evra's first 6 months or so at man yoo? moments of quality mixed in with piles of mistakes as they tried to get to grips with the pace and physicality of the prem - now look at them. Its the same problem with players as it is with the managers up here though.... Impatience from (some) fans! Slight mistake by any Defender, and they are written-off and labelled another Boumsong or Bramble! Miss a few chances, or misplace a few passes, and they are the next Luque! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
STM Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I don't understand anyones critisism of Enrique. When he's played he's been far from poor, despite not being excellent. Why he's not involved more is baffling, that doesn't mean hes been playing poorly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I don't understand anyones critisism of Enrique. When he's played he's been far from poor, despite not being excellent. Why he's not involved more is baffling, that doesn't mean hes been playing poorly. Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brewcastle Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 SACK HIM SACK HIM SACK HIM Its just a matter of time now Hope stoke stuff us and then the fat t*** will have to go. Yeah, because the 1-5 home defeat by Birmingham in the same competition last season meant the end of Roeder, didn't it? I might be wrong, but that night we had the likes of Huntington in the side, and Lua-Lua on the bench. We were missing about 10 players. Thats sounds like a Roeder excuse right there! Sounds like a Roeder excuse? -So you mean Roeder had a good enough squad to pick from last season? Some people should feel more ashamed over how Roeder got treated last season, than som boooing in some matches this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 SACK HIM SACK HIM SACK HIM Its just a matter of time now Hope stoke stuff us and then the fat t*** will have to go. Yeah, because the 1-5 home defeat by Birmingham in the same competition last season meant the end of Roeder, didn't it? I might be wrong, but that night we had the likes of Huntington in the side, and Lua-Lua on the bench. We were missing about 10 players. Thats sounds like a Roeder excuse right there! Sounds like a Roeder excuse? -So you mean Roeder had a good enough squad to pick from last season? Some people should feel more ashamed over how Roeder got treated last season, than som boooing in some matches this season. Well No, but who's fault was that??? Without going over old ground again (there must be numerous old threads about last season!) Roeder knew in the transfer window before the 2006/07 season that the defence wasn't good enough, and lacked depth. So what did he do, who did he sign? Martins and Damian Duff, then signed Sibierski and loaned Rossi!!! Sorry - by the time we played Birmingham, he had sign Onyewu on loan as well! Hardly trying to correct the obvious problem, was he?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Brewcastle Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 SACK HIM SACK HIM SACK HIM Its just a matter of time now Hope stoke stuff us and then the fat t*** will have to go. Yeah, because the 1-5 home defeat by Birmingham in the same competition last season meant the end of Roeder, didn't it? I might be wrong, but that night we had the likes of Huntington in the side, and Lua-Lua on the bench. We were missing about 10 players. Thats sounds like a Roeder excuse right there! Sounds like a Roeder excuse? -So you mean Roeder had a good enough squad to pick from last season? Some people should feel more ashamed over how Roeder got treated last season, than som boooing in some matches this season. Well No, but who's fault was that??? Without going over old ground again (there must be numerous old threads about last season!) Roeder knew in the transfer window before the 2006/07 season that the defence wasn't good enough, and lacked depth. So what did he do, who did he sign? Martins and Damian Duff, then signed Sibierski and loaned Rossi!!! Sorry - by the time we played Birmingham, he had sign Onyewu on loan as well! Hardly trying to correct the obvious problem, was he?? Agree, it's a bit late to make a long discussion out of this (and my english is to bad). Just want to say: Roeder had a try to get in some strength in the back row. And he wasn't alone to struggle with that. -But I understand people's doubt about if he did try enough. Anyway. I find the signing of Martins one of the most exciting for years in NUFC. Roeder planned to build up the team around the new magic 9. And even with all the injury-problems Roeder had to deal with, he got some magic out of Martins. IMO Sibierski was a smart move in our situation. I was one of the few (maybe the only one ) that looked forward for a new season with Roeder as manager. A summer with new signings, less injuries and rid of some crap, could have given a good season we're in to now. But as you said.... old ground.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaststar Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 N'Zogbia is NOT a LB, and if you think he's doing OK there, you obviously missed the Chelsea game.... Enrique should have played more than he has - we do not have the luxury of buying 6m players and 'grooming' them for the future at this time. Yes I agree NZogbia is not a left back - and I don't think I suggested he was. I think he has played well in that position - definitely(infinitely) much better than babayaro or ramage. would like to see Enrique there first choice however, sometime in the near future. Zoggers is a great attacking player and once he's given that freedom it'll be very exciting. In regards to your statement:"we do not have the luxury of buying 6m players and 'grooming' them for the future at this time." I don't think it's up to you to make such assumption - that's really Sam and the club's call. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I do like Butt, he's very professional. Rarely disagree with him whenever he (rarely) comes out and says something. He got it spot on with a lengthy interview at the end of last season, too, after the Watford debacle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Butt: Sam Has to Stay http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article647276.ece NICKY BUTT has played under four Newcastle bosses in nearly four years — and has had enough. Blah blah blah “If you look at all the big teams, like Manchester United and Arsenal, and other teams doing well, like Everton, they are the clubs that have stood by their managers for a long time. If we do that, I’m sure we’ll get it right.” Blah blah blah The reason the clubs that do well are usually the ones that keep there manager for a while is f****** obvious Nicky, because they're doing well! Why sack a manager who's doing well?.. Managers that show signs of improving things at a club get kept and they're the ones that tend to do well. Managers who are stuborn idiots who seem to be sabotaging there own team get the sack, before they f*** things up even more. The fat man has until the end of the season at most IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Butt: Sam Has to Stay http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article647276.ece NICKY BUTT has played under four Newcastle bosses in nearly four years — and has had enough. Blah blah blah “If you look at all the big teams, like Manchester United and Arsenal, and other teams doing well, like Everton, they are the clubs that have stood by their managers for a long time. If we do that, I’m sure we’ll get it right.” Blah blah blah The reason the clubs that do well are usually the ones that keep there manager for a while is f****** obvious Nicky, because they're doing well! Why sack a manager who's doing well?.. Managers that show signs of improving things at a club get kept and they're the ones that tend to do well. Managers who are stuborn idiots who seem to be sabotaging there own team get the sack, before they f*** things up even more. The fat man has until the end of the season at most IMO. So Ferguson was doing well for Man U in his first season was he? They stuck with him for what reason then? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 The reason the clubs that do well are usually the ones that keep there manager for a while is f****** obvious Nicky, because they're doing well! Why sack a manager who's doing well?.. Managers that show signs of improving things at a club get kept and they're the ones that tend to do well. Managers who are stuborn idiots who seem to be sabotaging there own team get the sack, before they f*** things up even more. The fat man has until the end of the season at most IMO. You've missed the whole point he is making - Ferguson didn't do well when he first went to Man Utd - took him a few of years to get it right, and actually win something. Ironically, when they won the FA Cup in 1990, they played us in the 5th round up here - had they lost that match, he probably would have been sacked - they won, went on to win their first trophy under Fergie and the rest is history. There are other managers who have struggled in their first/second seasons, but weren't hounded out by their own fans, that have since gone on to improve the team, and their league placing, and even win things! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eaststar Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Butt: Sam Has to Stay http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/article647276.ece NICKY BUTT has played under four Newcastle bosses in nearly four years — and has had enough. Blah blah blah “If you look at all the big teams, like Manchester United and Arsenal, and other teams doing well, like Everton, they are the clubs that have stood by their managers for a long time. If we do that, I’m sure we’ll get it right.” Blah blah blah The reason the clubs that do well are usually the ones that keep there manager for a while is f****** obvious Nicky, because they're doing well! Why sack a manager who's doing well?.. Managers that show signs of improving things at a club get kept and they're the ones that tend to do well. Managers who are stuborn idiots who seem to be sabotaging there own team get the sack, before they f*** things up even more. The fat man has until the end of the season at most IMO. Not really. Ferguson didn't do that well for both Aberdeen and Man U...and look at Moyes who wasn't sacked after a cr*p 2nd season. Give him until the end of the season AT LEAST Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I'm not talking about league position or some poor results. I'm talking about showing improvement, showing you're getting to grips with the players you have available and how to use them best, that's what a manager needs to do to get more time. Allardyce hasn't shown any of that, he just wants to cram the players we have into 'the bolton way' of playing Football, which as far as I can see is barely Football at all. See people always mention the likes of Moyes and O'Niel, but I'd be very interested to hear from the fans of Everton and Villa and find out what they thought of them even when results weren't going well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I'm not talking about league position or some poor results. I'm talking about showing improvement, if a manager shows signs of improving the team people will notice and they get kept on for a while longer. What has Sam shown other then a stuborn attitude, arrogant nature and a will to play odd tactics with the same poor performing players (often out of position). See people always say this kind of thing regarding the likes of Moyes and O'Niel, but I'd be very interested to hear from the fans of Everton and Villa and find out what they thought of them even when results weren't going well. Well check Brummie's posts for the Villa fans perspective where he basically tells you that this same situation happened last year at Villa. Is it in this thread? Could be actually. In our last two games we've matched Chelsea and outplayed City for most of a game (and not once looked like they were actually better than us). Unlucky in both not to pick up points. Is that not recent signs of improvement? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I'm not talking about league position or some poor results. I'm talking about showing improvement, if a manager shows signs of improving the team people will notice and they get kept on for a while longer. What has Sam shown other then a stuborn attitude, arrogant nature and a will to play odd tactics with the same poor performing players (often out of position). See people always say this kind of thing regarding the likes of Moyes and O'Niel, but I'd be very interested to hear from the fans of Everton and Villa and find out what they thought of them even when results weren't going well. Well check Brummie's posts for the Villa fans perspective where he basically tells you that this same situation happened last year at Villa. Is it in this thread? Could be actually. In our last two games we've matched Chelsea and outplayed City for most of a game (and not once looked like they were actually better than us). Unlucky in both not to pick up points. Is that not recent signs of improvement? Villa went 16 games without a win at one point last season I remember reading somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I'm not talking about league position or some poor results. I'm talking about showing improvement, if a manager shows signs of improving the team people will notice and they get kept on for a while longer. What has Sam shown other then a stuborn attitude, arrogant nature and a will to play odd tactics with the same poor performing players (often out of position). See people always say this kind of thing regarding the likes of Moyes and O'Niel, but I'd be very interested to hear from the fans of Everton and Villa and find out what they thought of them even when results weren't going well. Well check Brummie's posts for the Villa fans perspective where he basically tells you that this same situation happened last year at Villa. Is it in this thread? Could be actually. In our last two games we've matched Chelsea and outplayed City for most of a game (and not once looked like they were actually better than us). Unlucky in both not to pick up points. Is that not recent signs of improvement? He doesn't give many specifics though (unless its not the post I read). He says something about "the same situation", but he only seems to be referring to results not being great. What I'd like to hear from Villa and Everton fans is what they thought of there managers during those bad times, actual specific details. Did they see that the managers were doing things more or less the right way but results just weren't coming? Or that they got some things wrong but kept learning how best to use the players until things went right. Or did they look at there manager and say "What the f*** are you doing?, not this s*** again!, its the same every week, your decisions are unfathomable and its making it impossible for us to win!". Because that's what I think most weeks There have been a couple of blips where we've done half decent, but they're few and far between. We did well against the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal because the way Allardyce has us playing is the right way to play against those teams. The problem is he doesn't change the way we play no matter who we play. Its always about stopping the opposition playing us and getting the ball into the box at all costs, quantity over quality. That's not the right way to play Wigan or Derby.. we can outplay them, we've got better players! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I'm not talking about league position or some poor results. I'm talking about showing improvement, if a manager shows signs of improving the team people will notice and they get kept on for a while longer. What has Sam shown other then a stuborn attitude, arrogant nature and a will to play odd tactics with the same poor performing players (often out of position). See people always say this kind of thing regarding the likes of Moyes and O'Niel, but I'd be very interested to hear from the fans of Everton and Villa and find out what they thought of them even when results weren't going well. Well check Brummie's posts for the Villa fans perspective where he basically tells you that this same situation happened last year at Villa. Is it in this thread? Could be actually. In our last two games we've matched Chelsea and outplayed City for most of a game (and not once looked like they were actually better than us). Unlucky in both not to pick up points. Is that not recent signs of improvement? Villa went 16 games without a win at one point last season I remember reading somewhere. Villa finished 11th, that's 5 places above where they finished the season before O'Niel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pie Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I don't understand anyones critisism of Enrique. When he's played he's been far from poor, despite not being excellent. Why he's not involved more is baffling, that doesn't mean hes been playing poorly. Exactly. And that is the standard we set ourselves? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 We've lost 0-1 away to Wigan four games in a row. Did we bring in a load of flair technical players over the summer that suggests that telling these players 'just go out and play' would reverse this trend? Off the top f my head Brummie refers to disgruntled fans, booing at half time, exasperation and confusion at tactics and an over-whelming feeling of 'we've been shit for so long, lets be patient'. I'll find it for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I'm not talking about league position or some poor results. I'm talking about showing improvement, if a manager shows signs of improving the team people will notice and they get kept on for a while longer. What has Sam shown other then a stuborn attitude, arrogant nature and a will to play odd tactics with the same poor performing players (often out of position). See people always say this kind of thing regarding the likes of Moyes and O'Niel, but I'd be very interested to hear from the fans of Everton and Villa and find out what they thought of them even when results weren't going well. Well check Brummie's posts for the Villa fans perspective where he basically tells you that this same situation happened last year at Villa. Is it in this thread? Could be actually. In our last two games we've matched Chelsea and outplayed City for most of a game (and not once looked like they were actually better than us). Unlucky in both not to pick up points. Is that not recent signs of improvement? Villa went 16 games without a win at one point last season I remember reading somewhere. Villa finished 11th, that's 5 places above where they finished the season before O'Niel. Believe it or not, we still have every chance of finishing above where we finished last season, even in the top 10!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I'm not talking about league position or some poor results. I'm talking about showing improvement, if a manager shows signs of improving the team people will notice and they get kept on for a while longer. What has Sam shown other then a stuborn attitude, arrogant nature and a will to play odd tactics with the same poor performing players (often out of position). See people always say this kind of thing regarding the likes of Moyes and O'Niel, but I'd be very interested to hear from the fans of Everton and Villa and find out what they thought of them even when results weren't going well. Well check Brummie's posts for the Villa fans perspective where he basically tells you that this same situation happened last year at Villa. Is it in this thread? Could be actually. In our last two games we've matched Chelsea and outplayed City for most of a game (and not once looked like they were actually better than us). Unlucky in both not to pick up points. Is that not recent signs of improvement? He doesn't give many specifics though (unless its not the post I read). He says something about "the same situation", but he only seems to be referring to results not being great. What I'd like to hear from Villa and Everton fans is what they thought of there managers during those bad times, actual specific details. Did they see that the managers were doing things more or less the right way but results just weren't coming? Or that they got some things wrong but kept learning how best to use the players until things went right. Or did they look at there manager and say "What the f*** are you doing?, not this s*** again!, its the same every week, your decisions are unfathomable and its making it impossible for us to win!". Because that's what I think most weeks There have been a couple of blips where we've done half decent, but they're few and far between. We did well against the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal because the way Allardyce has us playing is the right way to play against those teams. The problem is he doesn't change the way we play no matter who we play. Its always about stopping the opposition playing us and getting the ball into the box at all costs, quantity over quality. That's not the right way to play Wigan or Derby.. we can outplay them, we've got better players! There ye go. http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48356.msg1129834#msg1129834 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 We've lost 0-1 away to Wigan four games in a row. Did we bring in a load of flair technical players over the summer that suggests that telling these players 'just go out and play' would reverse this trend? But it isn't just Wigan is it? And the result at Wigan certainly wasn't the worst thing about that game either. The worst things was seeing a Newcastle side hoofing the ball as far as they could up field every single time they got possesion for 45 minutes straight. Off the top f my head Brummie refers to disgruntled fans, booing at half time, exasperation and confusion at tactics and an over-whelming feeling of 'we've been s*** for so long, lets be patient'. I'll find it for you. I'd be interested to read that, I've definitely missed that post if he said all that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 What I'd like to hear from Villa and Everton fans is what they thought of there managers during those bad times, actual specific details. Did they see that the managers were doing things more or less the right way but results just weren't coming? Or that they got some things wrong but kept learning how best to use the players until things went right. Or did they look at there manager and say "What the f*** are you doing?, not this s*** again!, its the same every week, your decisions are unfathomable and its making it impossible for us to win!". Because that's what I think most weeks Here you go, form that thread.... Yes, there are definite similarities. We went through something last year very similar to what you are going through. Also don't forget the fact that, like us, you have also gone through a regime change - everything at the club will be changing this season, from top to bottom. That might not effect things on the pitch directly but nonetheless, the whole club will be in flux. We had quite a lot of moaning, too. Don't forget, in our piss poor patch, we were flirting with relegation spots. Anyone would moan in that situation. The argument that kept coming up, though, was that we'd moaned for years that the club was a f***** up basket case under Ellis, and that nothing - nothing - was right there, so it shouldn't have been a surprise that things didn't go exactly to plan in the first year. We also had weird tactical f*** ups, the team booed off the pitch at half time, MON's team selections which bemused everyone, but for better or worse, you just have to put your trust in the manager to get it right over time - you just have to give him that time to succeed or fail. Get shot of him now and he can justifiably say that he didn't get time. Give him time and if he still fucks up, then get rid of him, but not before. Just need a response from the Everton fan on here now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now