Teasy Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I'm not talking about league position or some poor results. I'm talking about showing improvement, if a manager shows signs of improving the team people will notice and they get kept on for a while longer. What has Sam shown other then a stuborn attitude, arrogant nature and a will to play odd tactics with the same poor performing players (often out of position). See people always say this kind of thing regarding the likes of Moyes and O'Niel, but I'd be very interested to hear from the fans of Everton and Villa and find out what they thought of them even when results weren't going well. Well check Brummie's posts for the Villa fans perspective where he basically tells you that this same situation happened last year at Villa. Is it in this thread? Could be actually. In our last two games we've matched Chelsea and outplayed City for most of a game (and not once looked like they were actually better than us). Unlucky in both not to pick up points. Is that not recent signs of improvement? Villa went 16 games without a win at one point last season I remember reading somewhere. Villa finished 11th, that's 5 places above where they finished the season before O'Niel. Believe it or not, we still have every chance of finishing above where we finished last season, even in the top 10!! You think we have every chance of getting at least 50 points this season?? (because that's what its going to take to get top 10). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 You think we have every chance of getting at least 50 points this season?? (because that's what its going to take to get top 10). Definitely Maybe! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 There ye go. http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48356.msg1129834#msg1129834 I can't deny it does make me feel a bit better to read that, I'd love to know the specifics of when the manager started to actually get to grips with things. Obviously they must have gone on a excellent run late on to finish 11th if they were relegation candidates for a lot of the season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 There ye go. http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48356.msg1129834#msg1129834 I can't deny it does make me feel a bit better to read that, I'd love to know the specifics of when the manager started to actually get to grips with things. Obviously they must have gone on a excellent run late on to finish 11th if they were relegation candidates for a lot of the season. Thats down to brummie to say really in terms of performances, their results speak for themselves and we can all look at them. If we're lucky he may give us a bit more on this subject Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 There ye go. http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48356.msg1129834#msg1129834 I can't deny it does make me feel a bit better to read that, I'd love to know the specifics of when the manager started to actually get to grips with things. Obviously they must have gone on a excellent run late on to finish 11th if they were relegation candidates for a lot of the season. Why do you need specifics? Just to give you more ammo against Allardyce? Can you not simply accept that another set of supporters went through a similar situation to us last season, but weren't calling for their managers job?? They actually gave him time, and had a bit of patience? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 There ye go. http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=48356.msg1129834#msg1129834 I can't deny it does make me feel a bit better to read that, I'd love to know the specifics of when the manager started to actually get to grips with things. Obviously they must have gone on a excellent run late on to finish 11th if they were relegation candidates for a lot of the season. Why do you need specifics? Just to give you more ammo against Allardyce??? Yeah of course, I have a personal vendetta against Allardyce, didn't you know he killed my favourite gold fish before he even came to Newcastle and I've been plotting against him ever since? Don't you think perhaps I might just want as many specifics as possible because it gives me hope that things can get better?.. If I'm going to look at Villa's situation last season as a template for Newcastle this season then I want to know as much about it as possible. Can you not simply accept that another set of supporters went through a similar situation to us last season, but weren't calling for their managers job?? They actually gave him time, and had a bit of patience? Not only do I not care wether or not Villa fans wanted him sacked but I really don't see what that has to do with asking for specifics about when the manager turned things around. Oh and by the way, did you not see where Brummie wrote about fans booing every match, that's patience is it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 I don't understand anyones critisism of Enrique. When he's played he's been far from poor, despite not being excellent. Why he's not involved more is baffling, that doesn't mean hes been playing poorly. Exactly. And that is the standard we set ourselves? What? I'm agreeing we perhaps shouldn't be writing off a promising young player just because the manager is not selecting him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Can't believe that result like. I thought this twat was talking shite but he might be right.... http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/main.jhtml;jsessionid=NMYU3MLKS1SITQFIQMGCFF4AVCBQUIV0?view=DETAILS&grid=A1YourView&xml=/sport/2008/01/03/sfnhen103.xml Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 What you doing in here? Already seen that dross anyway. Utter tripe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 What you doing in here? Already seen that dross anyway. Utter tripe. Thought I'd wind up a few of the reactionists on here with it. Bit entertainment for 20 minutes before I go out. TT is a bit quiet. Too sensible over there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 He doesn't give many specifics though (unless its not the post I read). He says something about "the same situation", but he only seems to be referring to results not being great. What I'd like to hear from Villa and Everton fans is what they thought of there managers during those bad times, actual specific details. Did they see that the managers were doing things more or less the right way but results just weren't coming? Or that they got some things wrong but kept learning how best to use the players until things went right. Or did they look at there manager and say "What the f*** are you doing?, not this s*** again!, its the same every week, your decisions are unfathomable and its making it impossible for us to win!". Because that's what I think most weeks What do fans know. We've been going on all season about Milner playing on the right instead of the left and since being moved he's had his 2 worst games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 No he hasn't, he's had two poor games against a top 4 side and a pretty decent team in Man City. He's had plenty of poor games on the left as well, he's just played much more on the left and so had more chances to play well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 On a more general note, from the perspective of the fan rather than the board, its clear to me that it is far FAR easier to say 'fuck him he isnt good enough' than it is to nail your colours to the mast and say lets back the manager. Those who are reluctant to back the man often refer to Souness as evidence of the folly of backing a manager with poor results. Souness's approach to sorting out fitness problems at the club was to re-lay the turf at Benton. He believed we had the wrong type of grass. Allardyce has brought in the best expertise in sports science to address the fitness needs of the squad. Not saying he has sorted it but fundamentally i just reckon one of these managers was a fucktard and the other is a rational logician. Souness also thought that man-management was about authority, whereas Allardyce thinks its about ensuring our muslim players have access to the right Mosque or are not forced to play numerous games in their first season as a young player in England. Souness thought that splashing large amounts of cash was the first priority, whereas Allardyce wanted to build a squad of players who want to play for each other and the manager (you need time to take the latter approach). The comparison is fucking laughable. It seems to me that it is far safer and easier to say get rid than it is to say lets stick with him. To say 'stick' you risk having your judgement questioned, whereas 'get rid' is risk free. Once he has gone, there is no way of knowing if we wouldnt have improved (its called a counter-factual argument). After he has gone the 'get rid' party have no downside (unless he takes on a similar club with similar circumstances and fucks up). Those of you saying get rid might well be right but do remember you are also taking the easiest of the two options. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 On a more general note, from the perspective of the fan rather than the board, its clear to me that it is far FAR easier to say 'fuck him he isnt good enough' than it is to nail your colours to the mast and say lets back the manager. Definitely. This won't go down well, but I also think some of our fans wallow in self-pity somewhat, and relish kicking NUFC when they are down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 On a more general note, from the perspective of the fan rather than the board, its clear to me that it is far FAR easier to say 'fuck him he isnt good enough' than it is to nail your colours to the mast and say lets back the manager. Those who are reluctant to back the man often refer to Souness as evidence of the folly of backing a manager with poor results. Souness's approach to sorting out fitness problems at the club was to re-lay the turf at Benton. He believed we had the wrong type of grass. Allardyce has brought in the best expertise in sports science to address the fitness needs of the squad. Not saying he has sorted it but fundamentally i just reckon one of these managers was a fucktard and the other is a rational logician. Souness also thought that man-management was about authority, whereas Allardyce thinks its about ensuring our muslim players have access to the right Mosque or are not forced to play numerous games in their first season as a young player in England. Souness thought that splashing large amounts of cash was the first priority, whereas Allardyce wanted to build a squad of players who want to play for each other and the manager (you need time to take the latter approach). The comparison is fucking laughable. It seems to me that it is far safer and easier to say get rid than it is to say lets stick with him. To say 'stick' you risk having your judgement questioned, whereas 'get rid' is risk free. Once he has gone, there is no way of knowing if we wouldnt have improved (its called a counter-factual argument). After he has gone the 'get rid' party have no downside (unless he takes on a similar club with similar circumstances and fucks up). Those of you saying get rid might well be right but do remember you are also taking the easiest of the two options. There is no remote comparison between the apporaches I agree. As I've said repeatedly he's no worse than Moyes, MON or Hughes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 On a more general note, from the perspective of the fan rather than the board, its clear to me that it is far FAR easier to say 'f*** him he isnt good enough' than it is to nail your colours to the mast and say lets back the manager. Those who are reluctant to back the man often refer to Souness as evidence of the folly of backing a manager with poor results. Souness's approach to sorting out fitness problems at the club was to re-lay the turf at Benton. He believed we had the wrong type of grass. Allardyce has brought in the best expertise in sports science to address the fitness needs of the squad. Not saying he has sorted it but fundamentally i just reckon one of these managers was a fucktard and the other is a rational logician. Souness also thought that man-management was about authority, whereas Allardyce thinks its about ensuring our muslim players have access to the right Mosque or are not forced to play numerous games in their first season as a young player in England. Souness thought that splashing large amounts of cash was the first priority, whereas Allardyce wanted to build a squad of players who want to play for each other and the manager (you need time to take the latter approach). The comparison is f****** laughable. It seems to me that it is far safer and easier to say get rid than it is to say lets stick with him. To say 'stick' you risk having your judgement questioned, whereas 'get rid' is risk free. Once he has gone, there is no way of knowing if we wouldnt have improved (its called a counter-factual argument). After he has gone the 'get rid' party have no downside (unless he takes on a similar club with similar circumstances and fucks up). Those of you saying get rid might well be right but do remember you are also taking the easiest of the two options. There is no remote comparison between the apporaches I agree. As I've said repeatedly he's no worse than Moyes, MON or Hughes. Unfortunately, he's probably no better either, so it's unlikely we're ever going to overtake them on a regular basis. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 On a more general note, from the perspective of the fan rather than the board, its clear to me that it is far FAR easier to say 'fuck him he isnt good enough' than it is to nail your colours to the mast and say lets back the manager. Those who are reluctant to back the man often refer to Souness as evidence of the folly of backing a manager with poor results. Souness's approach to sorting out fitness problems at the club was to re-lay the turf at Benton. He believed we had the wrong type of grass. Allardyce has brought in the best expertise in sports science to address the fitness needs of the squad. Not saying he has sorted it but fundamentally i just reckon one of these managers was a fucktard and the other is a rational logician. Souness also thought that man-management was about authority, whereas Allardyce thinks its about ensuring our muslim players have access to the right Mosque or are not forced to play numerous games in their first season as a young player in England. Souness thought that splashing large amounts of cash was the first priority, whereas Allardyce wanted to build a squad of players who want to play for each other and the manager (you need time to take the latter approach). The comparison is fucking laughable. It seems to me that it is far safer and easier to say get rid than it is to say lets stick with him. To say 'stick' you risk having your judgement questioned, whereas 'get rid' is risk free. Once he has gone, there is no way of knowing if we wouldnt have improved (its called a counter-factual argument). After he has gone the 'get rid' party have no downside (unless he takes on a similar club with similar circumstances and fucks up). Those of you saying get rid might well be right but do remember you are also taking the easiest of the two options. Best post I 've read on here in yonks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Alan Shearer 9 Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 On a more general note, from the perspective of the fan rather than the board, its clear to me that it is far FAR easier to say 'f*** him he isnt good enough' than it is to nail your colours to the mast and say lets back the manager. Those who are reluctant to back the man often refer to Souness as evidence of the folly of backing a manager with poor results. Souness's approach to sorting out fitness problems at the club was to re-lay the turf at Benton. He believed we had the wrong type of grass. Allardyce has brought in the best expertise in sports science to address the fitness needs of the squad. Not saying he has sorted it but fundamentally i just reckon one of these managers was a fucktard and the other is a rational logician. Souness also thought that man-management was about authority, whereas Allardyce thinks its about ensuring our muslim players have access to the right Mosque or are not forced to play numerous games in their first season as a young player in England. Souness thought that splashing large amounts of cash was the first priority, whereas Allardyce wanted to build a squad of players who want to play for each other and the manager (you need time to take the latter approach). The comparison is f****** laughable. It seems to me that it is far safer and easier to say get rid than it is to say lets stick with him. To say 'stick' you risk having your judgement questioned, whereas 'get rid' is risk free. Once he has gone, there is no way of knowing if we wouldnt have improved (its called a counter-factual argument). After he has gone the 'get rid' party have no downside (unless he takes on a similar club with similar circumstances and fucks up). Those of you saying get rid might well be right but do remember you are also taking the easiest of the two options. There is no remote comparison between the apporaches I agree. As I've said repeatedly he's no worse than Moyes, MON or Hughes. Unfortunately, he's probably no better either, so it's unlikely we're ever going to overtake them on a regular basis. Who the fuck are we going to get who's better...? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Quique Sanchez Flores, Martin Jol...depends. If the board isn't sure on spending money then no-one really, however if Ashley wants to splash the cash, then who's to say we can't do a City and get someone like Eriksson? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Jol who couldnt beat Roeder? If we were able to attract a world class manager we would have done it by now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Jol who couldnt beat Roeder? If we were able to attract a world class manager we would have done it by now. Give over man. Last season Wenger couldn't beat Roeder...and he lost to Souness the season before that. That's a "my dad's bigger than your's" answer if ever I've seen one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Jol who couldnt beat Roeder? If we were able to attract a world class manager we would have done it by now. Give over man. Last season Wenger couldn't beat Roeder...and he lost to Souness the season before that. That's a "my dad's bigger than your's" answer if ever I've seen one. Shorthand for 'Jol is utter shite'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Ignore the more pertinent second point too mate... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 He took over Spurs with a worse squad than we have now, in a similar position and took them to the top 5. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted January 4, 2008 Share Posted January 4, 2008 Fine, the 'Martin Jol in' campaign starts here. On your head be it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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