Why the F*** should fans

[Guest Brazilianbob]

have to continue paying through the nose whilst giving Sam "more time to get it right".

 

If Mort and Ashley truly believe that longevity will lead to success why should they expect fans to pay the full admittance price when we all know Allardyce is going to continue serving up the s**t we are currently having to watch.

 

If Mort and Ashley are going to stick with Allardyce lets see a bit of a sacrifice on the part of Allardyce.

 

If he wants more time to get it right then let him pay for it.  Ask him to take a cut in his annual salary and go onto half pay until it is plainly obvious he has got it right.  Will he do it? Will he F***!  But the fans are still expected to carry on stumping up full price to watch this cr*p that he laughingly calls winning football.

 

If it's the players that are at fault then lets see them all take a pay cut in the same vein.  Will they do it? Will they F***!

[Guest JamesD]

noble idea, but obviously not gonna happen.

[Guest Saint Andy]

vote with your wallet if you don't like it.

[Guest The Libertine]

you voluntarily paid the money so you took the risk.

[thomas]

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7544/babycryingcloseupdv3.jpg

 

[Guest Brazilianbob]

http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/7544/babycryingcloseupdv3.jpg

 

 

Please don't post any more pictures of your backside or I will report you to the mods!

[Guest teepee]

jesus christ....

 

i am all for incentive based pay - especially in sports - but asking anyone to take a pay cut is unrealistic and unfair

[WhatTheFunk]

 

I cant believe some of the shit spouted on here on a daily basis!! The vitriol aimed at Allardyce is needless, and serves no purpose! He's not the first or last manager in the history of football to oversee the serving up of shit football or shit results just a few months into his first season in charge.

 

As someone has rightly pointed out, if you don't like it, then don't pay, and don't watch the games. Might as well pack in supporting the club altogether with attitude like that!! The way some of you lot are going on these days one would think Allardyce has been here 5 years and spent 100m quid!!

[Elliottman]

threads like this make me want to give Sam more time for some reason.

[Guest Ridzuan]

Well,I think at the end of the day,the decision is still up to the individuals themselves,whether they want to keep on paying and watch the team playing or whether they couldnt not be bother anymore to turn up and support the team.Whether we want to support the manager is a completely different story,but I think we still need to give the support to the players so that they will be motivated to keep on playing.I think any players would like it if they have the support from the fans when they are playing,but at the end of the day,nobody is forcing you to come down and support team,so you make the decision yourself.

[Guest Brazilianbob]

 

I cant believe some of the s*** spouted on here on a daily basis!! The vitriol aimed at Allardyce is needless, and serves no purpose! He's not the first or last manager in the history of football to oversee the serving up of s*** football or s*** results just a few months into his first season in charge.

 

As someone has rightly pointed out, if you don't like it, then don't pay, and don't watch the games. Might as well pack in supporting the club altogether with attitude like that!! The way some of you lot are going on these days one would think Allardyce has been here 5 years and spent 100m quid!!

 

I've been waiting over 45 years for success at NUFC so don't pidgeon hole me as a Keegan bandwagon fan who can't wait for success.  I know an average manager when I see one and Allardyce is at best just a clone of Souness.  I am quite sure if we had given Souness 5 years or more he may well have eventually turned the club around, but not many were prepared to put up with the rubbish on the pitch, so he had to go!  So come on smart guy what makes BSA so different from Souness?.

[WhatTheFunk]

 

I cant believe some of the s*** spouted on here on a daily basis!! The vitriol aimed at Allardyce is needless, and serves no purpose! He's not the first or last manager in the history of football to oversee the serving up of s*** football or s*** results just a few months into his first season in charge.

 

As someone has rightly pointed out, if you don't like it, then don't pay, and don't watch the games. Might as well pack in supporting the club altogether with attitude like that!! The way some of you lot are going on these days one would think Allardyce has been here 5 years and spent 100m quid!!

 

I've been waiting over 45 years for success at NUFC so don't pidgeon hole me as a Keegan bandwagon fan who can't wait for success.  I know an average manager when I see one and Allardyce is at best just a clone of Souness.  I am quite sure if we had given Souness 5 years or more he may well have eventually turned the club around, but not many were prepared to put up with the rubbish on the pitch, so he had to go!  So come on smart guy what makes BSA so different from Souness?.

 

For starters, Allardyce hasn't yet signed players for over-inflated prices. We all know that regardless of what one thought of them as players, we paid way over the odds for Boumsong, Owen and Luque. Souness didn't have the wheeling and dealing prowess of Allardyce. Big Sam has already proven that at Bolton, and the only time he went all out was when he was sure he was bringing supreme quality in Anelka. Granted Bolton couldn't afford to splash around like we did, but imo the tight budget he was on has taught him a fair bit about players. Whether his summer signings have worked (or will eventually work) is still undetermined imo.

 

Allardyce is lightyears ahead of Souness when it comes to the club's infrastructure. I don't think 2 people can actually disagree on that, including yourself. Souness gave jobs for the boys, whereas Allardyce has expert professionals working alongside him.

 

Allardyce has the ability to switch things around throughout the game tactics wise. I know his tactical ability hasn't been his shining light so far in the short while he has been here, but that comes with time.

 

We could debate further whether or not Allardyce is the right man for the job, but imo there is no doubt that Big Sam is a much bigger improvement on the nightmare that was Souness.

 

What I can;t understand, (and you seem like a level headed poster on here) is if longevity has proven to bring football clubs relative success down the years, then why is someone like you not ready or patient enough to give Sam the time he needs to give it a real go!? The man is clearly highly rated by his fellow pro's (Sir Alex, Mourinho and Wenger to name a few). So why are you calling for his head already before he's even had one full season in charge?

 

IMO, there's already been marked improvements off the pitch at NUFC under Big Sam, and I think that given time, the improvements on it will start to show.

[WhatTheFunk]

 

Oh, and for what it's worth, imo we will not achieve the success we have been craving for all these years under Allardyce. However, I think Allardyce will overhaul the club and prepare it in the right way for the man who has that little bit extra, who will eventually come in and be successful. So if Allardyce is a stepping stone in the right direction, I'm personally willing to wait out the temporary shite football and disappointing results, so long as the club is moving forwards.

[Guest Dev]

The most moronic notion clung to by people on these boards is that longevity = success.

 

What a bunch of toss.

 

The constantly repeated example around here is that if we give BSA the time given to Moyes, Ferguson and Wenger then he will naturally repeat their success.

 

That is the equivalent statement of saying that BSA is as good a manager as any of those guys. Does anyone around here genuinely believe that? Madness!

 

Those managers succeeded simply because they are good managers. Longevity comes with being a manager good enough for the job. Just giving a manager time does not make him a good manager.

 

Fact is this season Bolton and Spurs took a massive fall from grace. There was room to capitalise on that, and cement a spot in the second tier of English clubs. Sam is concentrating on taking the team back to where he was most comfortable with Bolton, at around 13th or 14th. Then he'll start building.

 

He's at the wrong club. I'm sick of people saying he is 'proven'. He isn't proven at getting teams into Europe on a regular basis and challenging for top 5, which is where we should be aiming. He's proven at taking clubs graudally from the cellar up. We shouldn't be aiming at that.

[WhatTheFunk]

The most moronic notion clung to by people on these boards is that longevity = success.

 

What a bunch of toss.

 

The constantly repeated example around here is that if we give BSA the time given to Moyes, Ferguson and Wenger then he will naturally repeat their success.

 

That is the equivalent statement of saying that BSA is as good a manager as any of those guys. Does anyone around here genuinely believe that? Madness!

 

Those managers succeeded simply because they are good managers. Longevity comes with being a manager good enough for the job. Just giving a manager time does not make him a good manager.

 

Fact is this season Bolton and Spurs took a massive fall from grace. There was room to capitalise on that, and cement a spot in the second tier of English clubs. Sam is concentrating on taking the team back to where he was most comfortable with Bolton, at around 13th or 14th. Then he'll start building.

 

He's at the wrong club. I'm sick of people saying he is 'proven'. He isn't proven at getting teams into Europe on a regular basis and challenging for top 5, which is where we should be aiming. He's proven at taking clubs graudally from the cellar up. We shouldn't be aiming at that.

 

Just out of curiosity....how big a football club do you think Everton are?

[Guest johnson293]

The most moronic notion clung to by people on these boards is that longevity = success.

 

What a bunch of toss.

 

The constantly repeated example around here is that if we give BSA the time given to Moyes, Ferguson and Wenger then he will naturally repeat their success.

 

That is the equivalent statement of saying that BSA is as good a manager as any of those guys. Does anyone around here genuinely believe that? Madness!

 

Those managers succeeded simply because they are good managers. Longevity comes with being a manager good enough for the job. Just giving a manager time does not make him a good manager.

 

Fact is this season Bolton and Spurs took a massive fall from grace. There was room to capitalise on that, and cement a spot in the second tier of English clubs. Sam is concentrating on taking the team back to where he was most comfortable with Bolton, at around 13th or 14th. Then he'll start building.

 

He's at the wrong club. I'm sick of people saying he is 'proven'. He isn't proven at getting teams into Europe on a regular basis and challenging for top 5, which is where we should be aiming. He's proven at taking clubs graudally from the cellar up. We shouldn't be aiming at that.

 

Ok - show some examples of managers taking over at a struggling premiership club, and turning things around with signings in his first summer, and the first few months of his first season.

 

Ignore the now boring example of Sven at City, and name a few others.

 

I bet there aren't many!

 

Longevity HAS proven to show progress and/or success - the names you mention above, Moyes & Ferguson could have been hounded out by their fans for poor early performances and results, but the club stuck with them, and the rest is history.

 

 

[Guest Dev]

The most moronic notion clung to by people on these boards is that longevity = success.

 

What a bunch of toss.

 

The constantly repeated example around here is that if we give BSA the time given to Moyes, Ferguson and Wenger then he will naturally repeat their success.

 

That is the equivalent statement of saying that BSA is as good a manager as any of those guys. Does anyone around here genuinely believe that? Madness!

 

Those managers succeeded simply because they are good managers. Longevity comes with being a manager good enough for the job. Just giving a manager time does not make him a good manager.

 

Fact is this season Bolton and Spurs took a massive fall from grace. There was room to capitalise on that, and cement a spot in the second tier of English clubs. Sam is concentrating on taking the team back to where he was most comfortable with Bolton, at around 13th or 14th. Then he'll start building.

 

He's at the wrong club. I'm sick of people saying he is 'proven'. He isn't proven at getting teams into Europe on a regular basis and challenging for top 5, which is where we should be aiming. He's proven at taking clubs graudally from the cellar up. We shouldn't be aiming at that.

 

Just out of curiosity....how big a football club do you think Everton are?

 

Smaller than us in terms of fans and probably revenue, but not hugely different. They have been consistently looking better though for mine over the past 5 or so years.

[mrmojorisin75]

moyes ain't a bad example actually...his brand of football early days at everton was little short of disgusting, i actually hated watching them play, it made me dislike football...and his results were up and down in the extreme season to season

 

that said he was obviously using a brand of functional football to get the point he's at now, where they're competitive AND play a fair bit

 

i think if we all knew that in a year or two's time were would be playing like everton he'd get more time/support - trouble is, to me, everyone thinks we're watching the end product NOW

 

probably a very harsh assumption on the part of many and a massive disservice to allardyce

[WhatTheFunk]

The most moronic notion clung to by people on these boards is that longevity = success.

 

What a bunch of toss.

 

The constantly repeated example around here is that if we give BSA the time given to Moyes, Ferguson and Wenger then he will naturally repeat their success.

 

That is the equivalent statement of saying that BSA is as good a manager as any of those guys. Does anyone around here genuinely believe that? Madness!

 

Those managers succeeded simply because they are good managers. Longevity comes with being a manager good enough for the job. Just giving a manager time does not make him a good manager.

 

Fact is this season Bolton and Spurs took a massive fall from grace. There was room to capitalise on that, and cement a spot in the second tier of English clubs. Sam is concentrating on taking the team back to where he was most comfortable with Bolton, at around 13th or 14th. Then he'll start building.

 

He's at the wrong club. I'm sick of people saying he is 'proven'. He isn't proven at getting teams into Europe on a regular basis and challenging for top 5, which is where we should be aiming. He's proven at taking clubs graudally from the cellar up. We shouldn't be aiming at that.

 

Just out of curiosity....how big a football club do you think Everton are?

 

Smaller than us in terms of fans and probably revenue, but not hugely different. They have been consistently looking better though for mine over the past 5 or so years.

 

That may be true. However, keep in mind Everton have recently won titles and cups, and were it not for the English european ban, who knows what that team would have done in the european cup. Based on that, Everton fans have more to expect from their club than we do, as I'm sure you will know, we are yet to win a major trophy in about 600 million years.

 

What I'm saying is, we do not have a divine right to expect to be finishing 5th or 6th year in year out. Of course there is always the hope and desire to be league champions every season, but it doesn;t work out that way does it!?

 

You don't give time to a manager just for the fuck of it! You give time to a manager to allow him to stamp his own style of management on the club, and you give him time to allow him to bring in the players who will physically, mentally and footballing wise be able to understand what is required of them. This is the way it works with any other business, and football is no different.

[Tisd09]

SA has done things behind the scenes aswell. I agree just giving him time does not guarentee success but what do we gain at the moment by sacking him. Are there any candidates that scream out to us as ideal ones. We can dream all we like about Jose but there is next to no chance IMO of us getting his services.

 

Chances are if Allardyce goes now Shearer will be the man to take over and do we want that risk right now? I have seen someone mentioned Venebles and someone else George Graham as SHORT term option would some people really rather see either of these two instead of Sam??

 

 

We are playing horrible football at the moment with piss poor results hopefully a couple of additions will see us into the top half of the table come the end of the season.

 

[BONTEMPI]

I would vote for performance related pay!

 

It would be the chairman who controls it, Based on a match to match basis.

 

Manager,Players,Coaching Staff affected

 

This would ensure you'd get 100% out of the cunts everytime and not just when they feel like it.

 

Now what about the players that don't play?  I think they should all have a minimum wage for all players  so you'd pick that wage up whether you play or not, but the guys who are getting a regular spot have the chance to earn extra for keeping there place.

 

If they play below par they get nothing more, but if they put in 100% they will be rewarded.

 

I think most of the fans get so pissed off with the team and manager for getting all that money for fuck all effort! Now if we knew they hadn't performed and didn't get there full wage packet I think we'd be appeased.

 

That's why I think clubs should take back control over these wankers that are at present taking over the game.

 

[Karjala]

Nobody makes you spend your money.

[thomas]

I would vote for performance related pay!

 

It would be the chairman who controls it, Based on a match to match basis.

 

Manager,Players,Coaching Staff affected

 

This would ensure you'd get 100% out of the cunts everytime and not just when they feel like it.

Defenders on ecently promoted sides would be well fucked wouldn't they?  Might as well go on the dole

 

It's not the worst of ideas, but the problem lies in the fact that, to some extent, bonus related issues would also be down to bad decisions by refs - cards, incorrectly (or correctly) ruled offside goals, etc.  Throw enough clauses in and you've probably got a more complex contract than now. 

 

As well, you'd have to institute it league/federation wide, or else talent will flee from the incentive-based clubs and flock to the higher base pay ones. 

[Optimistic Nut]

moyes ain't a bad example actually...his brand of football early days at everton was little short of disgusting, i actually hated watching them play, it made me dislike football...and his results were up and down in the extreme season to season

 

that said he was obviously using a brand of functional football to get the point he's at now, where they're competitive AND play a fair bit

 

i think if we all knew that in a year or two's time were would be playing like everton he'd get more time/support - trouble is, to me, everyone thinks we're watching the end product NOW

 

probably a very harsh assumption on the part of many and a massive disservice to allardyce

 

Everton were a state when Moyes went in, he kept them up and then got them into the top 7 in his first-season so he earned himself a bit of time when they struggled the next season. Allardyce has shown me nothing to suggest he can get us even upto 7th anytime soon.

[WhatTheFunk]

I would vote for performance related pay!

 

It would be the chairman who controls it, Based on a match to match basis.

 

Manager,Players,Coaching Staff affected

 

This would ensure you'd get 100% out of the c***s everytime and not just when they feel like it.

 

Now what about the players that don't play?  I think they should all have a minimum wage for all players  so you'd pick that wage up whether you play or not, but the guys who are getting a regular spot have the chance to earn extra for keeping there place.

 

If they play below par they get nothing more, but if they put in 100% they will be rewarded.

 

I think most of the fans get so pissed off with the team and manager for getting all that money for f*** all effort! Now if we knew they hadn't performed and didn't get there full wage packet I think we'd be appeased.

 

That's why I think clubs should take back control over these wankers that are at present taking over the game.

 

 

No offence Tempi but thats a load of bollocks. Can you imagine the factor of favoritism coming into the game because of this? Such and such manager must be doing such and such player up the chute, as he's playing him ahead of such and such other player clearly so he can earn the better pay.

 

Would never ever work.

 

The only clear cut occasion on which this may work is regarding perma-crocks, as its not a subjective thing whether you're injured or not. This will never work when it comes to team selections.