Villa favourites in race to recruit troubled Martins

[Syrette]

I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest

 

Get help.

 

The only thing Martins has over Smith is goals

 

Oh, so not much then?

[Guest Knightrider]

I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest

 

Get help.

 

The only thing Martins has over Smith is goals

 

Oh, so not much then?

 

The point lost on you it seems is goals as infrequent as they come from Martins I might add, are not enough. We need more from Martins than the odd goal.

[Baggio]

I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest

 

Get help.

 

The only thing Martins has over Smith is goals, in terms of all-round game though I think you'll find Martins to be the shit player, yet laughingly you class Smith as one when Martins couldn't tie his laces in terms of holding up the ball, playing others in, control, passing, even movement. You know, things players are meant to be able to do, strikers certainly.

 

And what good is the odd goal if you're constantly on the backfoot because the striker up front is useless when he's not scoring the odd goal, or stuck in a midfield battle because you don't have an outlet.

 

Not very as we're finding out.

 

And no I'm not laying all our fault at Martin's door. He's not the answer though but he is part of the problem.

 

How much have you watched of us this season, HTT?

 

Alan Smith has played up front over half a dozen times and has offered fuck all but hard graft, the highlight of that seems to be the game against Arsenal where he offered little threat going forward and it was the sort of game where grafters stand out like the majority of times we play the big four, the rest of the games he offers little in the way of us being an attacking threat, if you think he's an outlet then you've been watching a different game to me.

 

Having better control and passing abilities means little if you offer little else as a striker, Sibierski had better passing and control than Smith but he wasn't good enough either, compare that to Martins who's general play can be poor but offers us that something extra, surely you noticed how worse the team looked against Chelsea and Man City when he came off? Or what about against West Ham earlier in the season when he came on for Owen? Having a player with pace who can push the opposition back four back towards their goal is always going to be a bigger threat than someone that offers little more than being tidy in possession and gets stuck in.

 

How someone could want a shot shy striker like Smith up front when there are hardly any goals in the rest of the team is bizarre, the only thing he's got going for him is he suits the ugly style of football allardyce is known for.

[The College Dropout]

I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest

 

Get help.

 

The only thing Martins has over Smith is goals

 

Oh, so not much then?

 

The point lost on you it seems is goals as infrequent as they come from Martins I might add, are not enough. We need more from Martins than the odd goal.

 

The point is also lost when the striker you are comparing him with hasn't scored a goal in years.

[Baggio]

 

Never has a smilie been so appropriate.

[junkhead]

I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest

 

Get help.

 

The only thing Martins has over Smith is goals

 

Oh, so not much then?

 

The point lost on you it seems is goals as infrequent as they come from Martins I might add, are not enough. We need more from Martins than the odd goal.

yeah, we could've done without Martins' odd goal last year..

wonder how Smith's creative genius would've fit next to Sibierski.. or from the right wing.. oh wait, we've seen that this season

[Guest Knightrider]

I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest

 

Get help.

 

The only thing Martins has over Smith is goals

 

Oh, so not much then?

 

The point lost on you it seems is goals as infrequent as they come from Martins I might add, are not enough. We need more from Martins than the odd goal.

 

The point is also lost when the striker you are comparing him with hasn't scored a goal in years.

 

It's not lost on me because I recognise and accept that, but here we are talking about two strikers. One is classed as shite while the other is classed as good, yet to me Smith is a much better footballer and with it a better striker than Martins. Martins is obviously the better goalscorer, but even then the odd goal still isn't good enough is it?

 

If Owen wasn't such a crock and was more committed to the club, I'd start him and Smith together up front. As it stands it should be Smith and Martins.

 

Long term I'd like to see us phase such players out and revamp our attacking options fully.

[Guest Knightrider]

I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest

 

Get help.

 

The only thing Martins has over Smith is goals

 

Oh, so not much then?

 

The point lost on you it seems is goals as infrequent as they come from Martins I might add, are not enough. We need more from Martins than the odd goal.

yeah, we could've done without Martins' odd goal last year..

wonder how Smith's creative genius would've fit next to Sibierski.. or from the right wing.. oh wait, we've seen that this season

 

What Martins did last year doesn't matter in regards to this debate. Lets re-sign Andy Cole because of what he did in 93-94...

 

No.

 

[Tooj]

I'd rather bring Pedro back if we're going on that basis.

[Alberto2005]

I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest

 

Get help.

 

The only thing Martins has over Smith is goals

 

Oh, so not much then?

 

The point lost on you it seems is goals as infrequent as they come from Martins I might add, are not enough. We need more from Martins than the odd goal.

yeah, we could've done without Martins' odd goal last year..

wonder how Smith's creative genius would've fit next to Sibierski.. or from the right wing.. oh wait, we've seen that this season

 

What Martins did last year doesn't matter in regards to this debate. Lets re-sign Andy Cole because of what he did in 93-94...

 

No.

 

That's different mate, Andy Cole is at the end of his career, Martin's is still young and the same player he was last year, the formation we're playing is hindering Martin's form and progress, that's clear.

[Guest Knightrider]

I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest

 

Get help.

 

The only thing Martins has over Smith is goals

 

Oh, so not much then?

 

The point lost on you it seems is goals as infrequent as they come from Martins I might add, are not enough. We need more from Martins than the odd goal.

yeah, we could've done without Martins' odd goal last year..

wonder how Smith's creative genius would've fit next to Sibierski.. or from the right wing.. oh wait, we've seen that this season

 

What Martins did last year doesn't matter in regards to this debate. Lets re-sign Andy Cole because of what he did in 93-94...

 

No.

 

That's different mate, Andy Cole is at the end of his career, Martin's is still young and the same player he was last year, the formation we're playing is hindering Martin's form and progress, that's clear.

 

No, his average game is hindering his progress. He's never ever shown any form here either so has no form to measure things by. What we're are seeing with Martins, the level of performance, is actually consistant with the majority of his performances for us. Only the goals have dried up somewhat which always papered over the cracks in his game. No hiding for him now though. His confidence is obviously down and our form as a team and being played out of position won't have helped that, but I don't think a confident Martins is much different to a none confident Martins or the difference is marginal. Anyway he's as much a creator of his own lack of confidence as anything else with all those fluffed chances.

 

[Guest Knightrider]

 

Never has a smilie been so appropriate.

 

Why because my points go against your own? Debate the footballing points being raised if you can.

[Baggio]

 

Never has a smilie been so appropriate.

 

Why because my points go against your own? Debate the footballing points being raised if you can.

 

I have.

[Guest Pie]

 

Never has a smilie been so appropriate.

 

Why because my points go against your own? Debate the footballing points being raised if you can.

Maybe because you think James Milner has been excellent at times when in fact he has been utter shite frequently? Think you have lost the plot tbh matey. Too much trying to be clever for the sake of it.

[junkhead]

I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest

 

Get help.

 

The only thing Martins has over Smith is goals

 

Oh, so not much then?

 

The point lost on you it seems is goals as infrequent as they come from Martins I might add, are not enough. We need more from Martins than the odd goal.

yeah, we could've done without Martins' odd goal last year..

wonder how Smith's creative genius would've fit next to Sibierski.. or from the right wing.. oh wait, we've seen that this season

 

What Martins did last year doesn't matter in regards to this debate. Lets re-sign Andy Cole because of what he did in 93-94...

 

No.

 

i wrote it, because you keep saying that the odd goal is not good enough

yeah, surely, if we are Real Madrid, it's not good enough.. but we are a team that lacks flair so much it hurts my eyes watching model pros like Smith playing their pointless side passes..

Martins' goals were good enough to save us from certain relegation last year, playing in a team that created even less chances than this season's.. in my eyes, he has proved here that he is a good striker and a danger for every defense.. sure he has his shortcommings, but who fucking doesn't..

if only Allardyce had some common sense to play him more regularly instead the lost cause of Mickey Owen, maybe his form wouldn't have suffered so much..

[Guest Knightrider]

I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest

 

Get help.

 

The only thing Martins has over Smith is goals

 

Oh, so not much then?

 

The point lost on you it seems is goals as infrequent as they come from Martins I might add, are not enough. We need more from Martins than the odd goal.

yeah, we could've done without Martins' odd goal last year..

wonder how Smith's creative genius would've fit next to Sibierski.. or from the right wing.. oh wait, we've seen that this season

 

What Martins did last year doesn't matter in regards to this debate. Lets re-sign Andy Cole because of what he did in 93-94...

 

No.

 

i wrote it, because you keep saying that the odd goal is not good enough

yeah, surely, if we are Real Madrid, it's not good enough.. but we are a team that lacks flair so much it hurts my eyes watching model pros like Smith playing their pointless side passes..

Martins' goals were good enough to save us from certain relegation last year, playing in a team that created even less chances than this season's.. in my eyes, he has proved here that he is a good striker and a danger for every defense.. sure he has his shortcommings, but who fucking doesn't..

if only Allardyce had some common sense to play him more regularly instead the lost cause of Mickey Owen, maybe his form wouldn't have suffered so much..

 

He's an average striker and an average goalscorer too, and he's a poor footballer full stop. This sin't opinion, it's based on clear and present evidence.

 

He's poor in almost every department to ever be a top striker/footballer.

 

As for your other comments, he's featured more this season than Owen so what the hell are you talking about?

[robbo_11]

My thoughts on Martins are that he thrives on confidence and the "odd chance" ala Spurs. If you give him too much time to actually think of what to do with the ball i.e. pass or shoot or take another touch he will fluff the chance. However, when he has to make a quick decision, the sheer power behind one of his strike's is unstoppable, examples include Chelsea in the League Cup and Spurs (again!).

 

The team have to create these sort chances, but have been lacking in recent games before Man City due to a long ball approach. Quite a few of his shots were from distance in his first season, yet Allardyce's policy seems to be either get a cross in or from inside the penatly area and we have already heard of the supposed fine for striking over 25 yards out. His goals this season include a header, overhead kick but mostly latching on to the long ball forward (Man City away and Tottenham at home).

 

Simply Obafemi Martins thrives on creativity, yet he has to drop deep to create these chances as we lack a creative midfield player. Essentially he is the player who is creating opportunities for other players to score by picking the ball up from the half way line. We look better with Martins in our side as he offers more than scoring (Michael Owen).

[Gallowgate Toon]

No point in selling, good striker with alot of potential just keep him here.

Would be a huge mistake to get rid.

[Guest Edd]

Alan Smith has played up front over half a dozen times and has offered f*** all but hard graft, the highlight of that seems to be the game against Arsenal where he offered little threat going forward and it was the sort of game where grafters stand out like the majority of times we play the big four, the rest of the games he offers little in the way of us being an attacking threat, if you think he's an outlet then you've been watching a different game to me.

You could just as easily argue that Smith won every header against Arsenal and if he'd have been paired with a better striker, with better movement and who could read the game then they would have had a sakcful of chances.  As it was Smiths hard work was wasted while Martins watched the game pass him by.

 

I'm in no way a Smith fan and I don't hate Martins but I know which one any other striker would rather play alongside.

[Guest Knightrider]

 

Never has a smilie been so appropriate.

 

Why because my points go against your own? Debate the footballing points being raised if you can.

Maybe because you think James Milner has been excellent at times when in fact he has been utter shite frequently? Think you have lost the plot tbh matey. Too much trying to be clever for the sake of it.

 

 

Lost it because I happen to think Milner has been excellent at times this season?

 

[Gallowgate Toon]

I'd rather have Smith up front than Martins if I'm honest

 

Get help.

 

The only thing Martins has over Smith is goals

 

Oh, so not much then?

 

The point lost on you it seems is goals as infrequent as they come from Martins I might add, are not enough. We need more from Martins than the odd goal.

yeah, we could've done without Martins' odd goal last year..

wonder how Smith's creative genius would've fit next to Sibierski.. or from the right wing.. oh wait, we've seen that this season

 

What Martins did last year doesn't matter in regards to this debate. Lets re-sign Andy Cole because of what he did in 93-94...

 

No.

 

i wrote it, because you keep saying that the odd goal is not good enough

yeah, surely, if we are Real Madrid, it's not good enough.. but we are a team that lacks flair so much it hurts my eyes watching model pros like Smith playing their pointless side passes..

Martins' goals were good enough to save us from certain relegation last year, playing in a team that created even less chances than this season's.. in my eyes, he has proved here that he is a good striker and a danger for every defense.. sure he has his shortcommings, but who f****** doesn't..

if only Allardyce had some common sense to play him more regularly instead the lost cause of Mickey Owen, maybe his form wouldn't have suffered so much..

 

He's an average striker and an average goalscorer too, and he's a poor footballer full stop. This sin't opinion, it's based on clear and present evidence.

 

He's poor in almost every department to ever be a top striker/footballer.

 

As for your other comments, he's featured more this season than Owen so what the hell are you talking about?

He looked a pretty decent footballer last season and he has this season when played in a 4-4-2 (playing upfront). He has featured more than Owen by a few games but alot of the time has been played way out of position. Whenever he has played in a 4-4-2 this season and been played up top he has scored goals. Thats all the facts you need with a striker, goals.

[Guest]

If only Owen had the body of Martins. Would be the best striker in the world.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Oba has scored 24 goals in 55 starts and 62 appearances overall. With some of these starts being on the right wing. So basically your looking at a goal every 2 games with Oba. He is a good striker his goals to games proves it.

[Guest Knightrider]

 

Never has a smilie been so appropriate.

 

Why because my points go against your own? Debate the footballing points being raised if you can.

 

I have.

 

You mean the following:

 

How much have you watched of us this season, HTT?

 

Alan Smith has played up front over half a dozen times and has offered fuck all but hard graft, the highlight of that seems to be the game against Arsenal where he offered little threat going forward and it was the sort of game where grafters stand out like the majority of times we play the big four, the rest of the games he offers little in the way of us being an attacking threat, if you think he's an outlet then you've been watching a different game to me.

 

Having better control and passing abilities means little if you offer little else as a striker, Sibierski had better passing and control than Smith but he wasn't good enough either, compare that to Martins who's general play can be poor but offers us that something extra, surely you noticed how worse the team looked against Chelsea and Man City when he came off? Or what about against West Ham earlier in the season when he came on for Owen? Having a player with pace who can push the opposition back four back towards their goal is always going to be a bigger threat than someone that offers little more than being tidy in possession and gets stuck in.

 

How someone could want a shot shy striker like Smith up front when there are hardly any goals in the rest of the team is bizarre, the only thing he's got going for him is he suits the ugly style of football allardyce is known for.

 

Wow, looks like you got to the word "Smith" and went off on a rant.

 

Firstly I have never said Smith is an outlet nor have I said his performances have been amazing. I'm judging two individual players here and what they can offer a team hence my comments about Smith's all-round game being better than Martins' game (which it is and obviously so in my opinion).

 

Secondly you also seem to be putting other words into my mouth, that somehow Smith is good enough and Martins isn't. I've already said that none of our current strikers are good enough, well they are because we're a mid-table team, but ideally they aren't, i.e. if we want to become a top 6 side.

 

And the bit in bold, that's one of my points; that Martins is the kind of player who will be more effective for a team coming off the bench as he was against Everton.

 

Anyway I'm not going to argue the toss. I think the points I've stated are valid (certainly in no way deserving of a jesus wept icon) and while I concede I may not be right as after all, my opinions are just that, opinions, I stand by them and I do so on some reasoned logic based on the evidence where Martins is concerned that he is a poor footballer.

 

Something I also happen to think Smith is not. He's a shite goalscorer, in fact he isn't even a goalscorer at all because he doesn't score goals, but he's a good footballer.

[Guest Edd]

Oba has scored 24 goals in 55 starts and 62 appearances overall. With some of these starts being on the right wing. So basically your looking at a goal every 2 games with Oba. He is a good striker his goals to games proves it.

How many times has he played on the right wing?  He's played right side of a front 3 but that's hardly the same as a right winger.