Ashley has failed Newcastle United.

[NE5]

It still would've left us with the shower of s**** midfield we have now so it makes no f****** difference.

 

Our defenders aren't that bad. The problem is that our midfield can't hold onto the ball and can't turn defence into attack. Allardyce made no mention of midfield targets he missed out on which suggests he was happy with what he had. That in itself proves what a complete arse he is

 

Perhaps he would have bought MF targets in the Jan window...No one can really know.

 

What became pretty obvious was that Allardyce simply did not have the confidence of Ashley/Mort. For a man who built his career on results football, the results started indifferently and were headed south at an alarming rate.

 

He may have had targets but he didn't have the backing to buy them, and he can only blame himself for that. He tried to impose a tactical system with players it clearly didn't work with. Unless he was going to buy 11 new players it was irrelevant.

 

 

 

 

A couple of midfielders would not have changed the fact our entire strikeforce was utterly unsuited to Allardyce's tactics. It would not have changed the fact that our midfielders were by ability, fitness and temperament all unsuitable to his defensive flooding tactics.

 

All we can know is that Allardyce simply failed to come to grips with the players he had to use. So all we were left with was Bolton. The prospect, that given time, and money, he may well turn us into another Bolton, with perhaps slightly better results. No-one here wants to become Bolton. We certainely don't want to risk being relegated trying. So he got booted, and rightly so. At the time I thought 'may as well give him til summer' but in retrospect it was the right thing to do. Allardyce never showed he could adapt tactics, or change in any way to suit far higher expectations and far different playing staff.

 

In short, we do know. We know he wasn't good enough.

 

How would they know shit from shat?

 

 

in fairness, they got that one right - Allardyce was crap.

 

I'm only really arguing the timing anyway.

 

 

What were the alternatives? When do you think was the best time to get rid?

 

Summer or straight away as I've said earlier.

 

But in all honesty these things are always problematic and hard to judge.

 

 

 

 

Sacking Sam straight away would have been political dynamite and just the sort of rash decision you are now accusing the board of. In the summer would have meant another season wasted which Mort has already said, hence my remark that the timing was 'perfect' which you ridiculed at the time but when you think about it wasn't as stupid as you made out.

 

 

Plenty of people have been harping on for years about the "perfect" time to appoint a manager ie at the start of the summer.

 

Well, they did that last summer. So how are we not performing miraculously every week instead of facing a relegation fight ?

 

I don't understand why you are taking any notice of what Mort has said, most of what he has said, has been nothing other than a pile of bollocks.

 

"political dynamite" = I think the sooner you learn to completely disregard press attitudes, cliches, and agendas,  the better you will be for it, but to be fair, you are hardly the only one, whatever you mean by this phrase.

 

Simple fact is, the club has played a dangerous game. Last summers transfer activity was crap, although many people said otherwise. They had January to take stock of the situation and accept it had been crap, and they have failed to respond to the glaring obvious ie we are going to be in a relegation fight.

 

The cost of going down, put against the cost of signing one or two players to stay up, is an absolute no brainer.

 

 

[Baggio]

It couldn't have been that much of a no brainer to Keegan or he would have signed someone.

[Dave]

Keegan has said he had money to spend in January. NE5, you are saying he did not.

 

I know who I'm inclined to believe. Sorry.

[Dave]

Plenty of people have been harping on for years about the "perfect" time to appoint a manager ie at the start of the summer.

 

Well, they did that last summer. So how are we not performing miraculously every week instead of facing a relegation fight ?

 

The logic behind the appointment of Allardyce and the timing of the managerial change was spot on. SHEPHERD DID WELL WITH THAT. I've put that bit in capitals so you can see it.

 

Unfortunately for us, Allardyce turned out to be a bit shit.

[NE5]

Keegan has said he had money to spend in January. You are saying he did not.

 

I know who I'm inclined to believe. Sorry.

 

he didn't say how much Dave.

 

Pay peanuts and you get monkeys I'm afraid.

 

You won't convince me that Keegan wouldn't have loved to have had someone like Bentley signed for Newcastle if they had been prepared to back him. If we are relegated, we will lose far more than paying what it would take to get Bentley from Blackburn. This is just an example. The only way forward is to bring in quality footballers, and pay the going rate if necessary.

 

If Newcastle United can't buy the best players from a club like Blackburn, how exactly is the club being run ?

 

The answer to that I'm afraid, is that its being run like it was when we had shite directors who had no ambition for the club.

 

If Keegan is saying he can't get a better player for 5m quid or whatever than Milner, he's right. So accept that our standing is going to be way short of challenging the top 4 clubs, and they have shown their ambition.

 

 

 

 

[NE5]

Plenty of people have been harping on for years about the "perfect" time to appoint a manager ie at the start of the summer.

 

Well, they did that last summer. So how are we not performing miraculously every week instead of facing a relegation fight ?

 

The logic behind the appointment of Allardyce and the timing of the managerial change was spot on. SHEPHERD DID WELL WITH THAT. I've put that bit in capitals so you can see it.

 

Unfortunately for us, Allardyce turned out to be a bit shit.

 

my point is that, in the end, the timing didn't make the slightest bit of difference to the performance.

 

 

[Baggio]

Like Keegan was going to say how much he had to spend.

 

"Don't be fooled by this transfer window - the funds are definitely there for us," Keegan said.

 

"That was my choice not to bring anyone in. We could have brought in four or five players and spent some money.

 

"But I didn't want to do that for the sake of it. In the summer we'll bring whatever we feel is needed for the next jump.

 

"That next jump is to be fighting for a European place. Mike Ashley will support me, no doubt about that. He loves this club and is excited and enthusiastic as I am."

 

Unless he was talking about 4 or 5 players worth £1.5 million each.

[Dave]

Keegan has said he had money to spend in January. You are saying he did not.

 

I know who I'm inclined to believe. Sorry.

 

he didn't say how much Dave.

 

Pay peanuts and you get monkeys I'm afraid.

 

You won't convince me that Keegan wouldn't have loved to have had someone like Bentley signed for Newcastle if they had been prepared to back him. If we are relegated, we will lose far more than paying what it would take to get Bentley from Blackburn. This is just an example. The only way forward is to bring in quality footballers, and pay the going rate if necessary.

 

If Newcastle United can't buy the best players from a club like Blackburn, how exactly is the club being run ?

 

The answer to that I'm afraid, is that its being run like it was when we had shite directors who had no ambition for the club.

 

If Keegan is saying he can't get a better player for 5m quid or whatever than Milner, he's right. So accept that our standing is going to be way short of challenging the top 4 clubs, and they have shown their ambition.

 

 

 

 

 

As Baggio says, Keegan is hardly likely to reveal all to the press is he? Why would he even agree to come back here without knowing to what degree he would be backed? Ashley has said he wants to win things here; it must be easy to just assume everyone is lying I suppose?

 

I'm not convinced we'd have got Bentley anyway, and have said this before. The days of being able to simply poach players with ease from clubs you seem to belittle (like Blackburn) are over, whoever is on the board. There's a good post here on the subject: http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=49907.msg1203585#msg1203585

It'd be interesting to hear your views on that.

[fredbob]

Whats being debated now? I dont understand where you're coming from NE5, money was available, and Keegan has openely said it was his decision not to bring anyone in?

 

Are you suggesting that Mort andAshley told keegan to tell the media that there was money available when there wasnt?

 

I dont understand your logic with Bentley, that is blackburns very best player, are you saying we should pay the premium on a player like Bentley and the fact that we havent makes us unambitious?

 

Thats a bizarre opinion in my book.

 

 

[NE5]

Keegan has said he had money to spend in January. You are saying he did not.

 

I know who I'm inclined to believe. Sorry.

 

he didn't say how much Dave.

 

Pay peanuts and you get monkeys I'm afraid.

 

You won't convince me that Keegan wouldn't have loved to have had someone like Bentley signed for Newcastle if they had been prepared to back him. If we are relegated, we will lose far more than paying what it would take to get Bentley from Blackburn. This is just an example. The only way forward is to bring in quality footballers, and pay the going rate if necessary.

 

If Newcastle United can't buy the best players from a club like Blackburn, how exactly is the club being run ?

 

The answer to that I'm afraid, is that its being run like it was when we had shite directors who had no ambition for the club.

 

If Keegan is saying he can't get a better player for 5m quid or whatever than Milner, he's right. So accept that our standing is going to be way short of challenging the top 4 clubs, and they have shown their ambition.

 

 

 

 

 

Keegan is hardly likely to reveal all to the press is he? Why would he even agree to come back here without knowing to what degree he would be backed? Ashley has said he wants to win things here; it must be easy to just assume everyone is lying I suppose?

 

I'm not convinced we'd have got Bentley anyway, and have said this before. The days of being able to simply poach players with ease from clubs you seem to belittle (like Blackburn) are over, whoever is on the board. There's a good post here on the subject: http://www.newcastle-online.com/nufcforum/index.php?topic=49907.msg1203585#msg1203585

It'd be interesting to hear your views on that.

 

its relative and proportional though. If all these clubs have 20m quid we still have more by courtesy of our fanbase. If clubs such as Blackburn and Fulham can spend 20m quid on players, there is something wrong with how Newcastle are being run if we can't outspend them, and attract their best players. All things considered then, we should have had more than we spent last summer, if everybody had a 20m quid starting point for instance ie how much did Fulham spend on brininging in players ?

 

The day we can't attract players from clubs like this with the fanbase we have, and outbid and outspend them for a player we really want, is the day we should all give up. I've supported this club through this sort of outlook Dave and I'm not really in a hurry to see it coming back.

 

I'm also using Bentley as an example albeit a good one because he's a smashing player who would make a big difference to us by coming into a position that we need filling. It also proves that even Arsene Wenger doesn't get everything right too ..... 

 

Ref Keegan not revealing all to the press, of course not, but that figure could be higher or lower than what you expect. I don't doubt that Ashley wants to win things, everybody does. We have to be big hitters, if we want to be where we should be, and to that degree the sooner we are back in europe the better and the sooner the club realises this the better

 

 

 

 

[Guest optimistic nit]

Keegan has said he had money to spend in January. You are saying he did not.

 

I know who I'm inclined to believe. Sorry.

 

he didn't say how much Dave.

 

Pay peanuts and you get monkeys I'm afraid.

 

You won't convince me that Keegan wouldn't have loved to have had someone like Bentley signed for Newcastle if they had been prepared to back him. If we are relegated, we will lose far more than paying what it would take to get Bentley from Blackburn. This is just an example. The only way forward is to bring in quality footballers, and pay the going rate if necessary.

 

If Newcastle United can't buy the best players from a club like Blackburn, how exactly is the club being run ?

 

The answer to that I'm afraid, is that its being run like it was when we had shite directors who had no ambition for the club.

 

If Keegan is saying he can't get a better player for 5m quid or whatever than Milner, he's right. So accept that our standing is going to be way short of challenging the top 4 clubs, and they have shown their ambition.

 

 

 

 

 

yet at the other end of the spectrum it is the massive overspending of shepheard that has got us into this mess. money is going to improve a side if it is spent well, when it is not you get situations like leeds'. I think it is likely that they did not back allardyce because he was not their man. they felt it would be harsh to sack him, so gave him a bit of money as a taster to see how he did with it and paying off the debts also would have played a big part. if we spend nowt in the summer then i will be very concerned, but i'm not going to come to a conclusion until then.

[NE5]

Keegan has said he had money to spend in January. You are saying he did not.

 

I know who I'm inclined to believe. Sorry.

 

he didn't say how much Dave.

 

Pay peanuts and you get monkeys I'm afraid.

 

You won't convince me that Keegan wouldn't have loved to have had someone like Bentley signed for Newcastle if they had been prepared to back him. If we are relegated, we will lose far more than paying what it would take to get Bentley from Blackburn. This is just an example. The only way forward is to bring in quality footballers, and pay the going rate if necessary.

 

If Newcastle United can't buy the best players from a club like Blackburn, how exactly is the club being run ?

 

The answer to that I'm afraid, is that its being run like it was when we had shite directors who had no ambition for the club.

 

If Keegan is saying he can't get a better player for 5m quid or whatever than Milner, he's right. So accept that our standing is going to be way short of challenging the top 4 clubs, and they have shown their ambition.

 

 

 

 

 

yet at the other end of the spectrum it is the massive overspending of shepheard that has got us into this mess. money is going to improve a side if it is spent well, when it is not you get situations like leeds'. I think it is likely that they did not back allardyce because he was not their man. they felt it would be harsh to sack him, so gave him a bit of money as a taster to see how he did with it and paying off the debts also would have played a big part. if we spend nowt in the summer then i will be very concerned, but i'm not going to come to a conclusion until then.

 

and the zero spending and ambition of our past that got us into the mess the Halls and Shepherd found us in, and everybody bar the only 4 clubs who qualified for europe more than us during their time running the club after they rescued it.

 

I'm sick of saying this. If you think having a "debt" is so bad, mainly due to expanding the stadium, are you going to say you wish we still had a 36000 capacity ground, and then go to manu and Liverpool supporters and tell them their clubs have been run badly.

 

At the end of the day, if you are afraid of showing ambition and don't do it, you may as well give up.

 

 

 

[Mowen]

Like Keegan was going to say how much he had to spend.

 

"Don't be fooled by this transfer window - the funds are definitely there for us," Keegan said.

 

"That was my choice not to bring anyone in. We could have brought in four or five players and spent some money.

 

"But I didn't want to do that for the sake of it. In the summer we'll bring whatever we feel is needed for the next jump.

 

"That next jump is to be fighting for a European place. Mike Ashley will support me, no doubt about that. He loves this club and is excited and enthusiastic as I am."

 

Unless he was talking about 4 or 5 players worth £1.5 million each.

 

Given that we tried to sign Woodgate, who went for £8m, it would seem he just couldn't find anyone to spend on. Maybe the Wise appointment will be helpful for the next transfer window.

[NE5]

 

Given that we tried to sign Woodgate, who went for £8m, it would seem he just couldn't find anyone to spend on. Maybe the Wise appointment will be helpful for the next transfer window.

 

lets hope we stay up first

 

 

[Guest alex]

Thing is, unless he's lying it was KK's decision not to bring bodies in. If that backfires it's his fault. Equally, if Keegan's appointment backfires, that's the boards fault.

[Guest Dev]

 

Given that we tried to sign Woodgate, who went for £8m, it would seem he just couldn't find anyone to spend on. Maybe the Wise appointment will be helpful for the next transfer window.

 

lets hope we stay up first

 

 

 

Maybe Kev just looked at what players we had, and what the teams below us had about them, and decided we had good enough players to stay up quite easily. So he decided to do a clear out in summer, and buy players then when they aren't at an extra premium.

 

Not very exciting, and very frustrating for us as we chug along to 14th or 15th, but sensible.

 

Honestly the relegation hysteria compared to the results we have had is ridiculous. If he had good players available in jan but decided to wait for really good players in summer all power to him.

 

If he had of signed a couple, climbed up to tenth and then stayed tenth next year he'd probably get the sack.

 

If he comes 15th this year and comes 6th or 7th next year it'll be far better for all concerned.

[Baggio]

Fanbase has nothing to do with what we can spend, we could have the biggest fanbase in the World but if the club isn't making a profit then where exactly does this money come from?

[NE5]

Fanbase has nothing to do with what we can spend, we could have the biggest fanbase in the World but if the club isn't making a profit then where exactly does this money come from?

 

mackems.gif

[Lotus]

I thought the reason we didn't sign anybody was quite simply because KK's been out of the game for a while. He wouldn't have had the chance to have a look at the players the scouts may have recommended and he wouldn't have had time to assess our squad and target the replacements.

If you're going to spend proper money on a player you'd want to have a look at him first i'd imagine. Woodie was different because he knew him already.

That's how i saw it, the simplest explanation.

[Baggio]

Shame you can't debate the point as I'd have enjoyed proving you wrong, I'd hate to see what your finances are like if you're that naive. That wasn't you on that advert was it? "Steve, dad's found your scoooota" mackems.gif

[NE5]

Shame you can't debate the point as I'd have enjoyed proving you wrong, I'd hate to see what your finances are like if you're that naive. That wasn't you on that advert was it? "Steve, dad's found your scoooota" mackems.gif

 

how do manure spend more than wimbledon ?

 

I'll let you work it out in your own time lad.  mackems.gif

 

BTW, my finances and lifestyle are fine thanks

 

 

[steve_69]

I agree with the fact that we have to spend big in order to challenge the league's big hitters, but i don't think people realise how crap the Januray transfer window is for buying players. Why would any of the clubs in the top half of the league agree to let any of their players go when they're challenging for a European spot?

Firstly their European challenge will probably falter if they sell their best players, and secondly they won't have time to get in a decent quality replacement.

 

Purely hypothetical, but what would you rather NUFC did if we were in Blackburn's position in the league? Sell N'Zogbia because we were offered well over the odds for him in January or keep him because we'd stand a better chance of qualifying for Europe with him in the side?

 

Again hpothetical, but let's say Keegan has been given a £50m transfer kitty to spend between now and the summer. We offer Blackburn £25m for Bentley in Jan and they agree to let him go. For some money related reason he also agrees to the transfer. We've paid £10m over the odds for a player just so we could bring him in now rather than wait until the summer, and reduced our summer transfer budget by half. If we were on the verge of Champions League qualification then sure, go crazy and buy Bentley, Drogba, Kakadinho etc. because it might be the difference between 4th and 5th place, but when all we're trying to do is retain our Premier League status it's not worth pissing the money away unecessarily.

 

The fact is that we should not be in the position we are in with our squad. We are easily good enough to stay in this league, and should realistical be challenging for a top 10 position. But bad management, crap team selections and poor confidence have left us in the mess we find ourselves in. Keegan has rightly entrusted the players we have with the task of keeping us in the league rather than blowing a load of his transfer budget on players who aren't good enough for our first team. 

[TRon]

 

Given that we tried to sign Woodgate, who went for £8m, it would seem he just couldn't find anyone to spend on. Maybe the Wise appointment will be helpful for the next transfer window.

 

lets hope we stay up first

 

 

 

Maybe Kev just looked at what players we had, and what the teams below us had about them, and decided we had good enough players to stay up quite easily. So he decided to do a clear out in summer, and buy players then when they aren't at an extra premium.

 

Not very exciting, and very frustrating for us as we chug along to 14th or 15th, but sensible.

 

Honestly the relegation hysteria compared to the results we have had is ridiculous.  If he had good players available in jan but decided to wait for really good players in summer all power to him.

 

If he had of signed a couple, climbed up to tenth and then stayed tenth next year he'd probably get the sack.

 

If he comes 15th this year and comes 6th or 7th next year it'll be far better for all concerned.

 

Dear God...that's just far too boring and sensible. What the hell are you thinking man?

 

Let's work ourselves into a lather about hypothetical stuff we can't substantiate instead. Like Keegan possibly being denied funds. Or Ashley selling up to Tesco's perhaps. With Wise being appointed surely Keegan's days are numbered!! 

[UV]

but when all we're trying to do is retain our Premier League status it's not worth pissing the money away unecessarily.

 

 

The fact is that we should not be in the position we are in with our squad. We are easily good enough to stay in this league, and should realistical be challenging for a top 10 position. But bad management, crap team selections and poor confidence have left us in the mess we find ourselves in. Keegan has rightly entrusted the players we have with the task of keeping us in the league rather than blowing a load of his transfer budget on players who aren't good enough for our first team. 

 

We'll see at the end of the season wont we.

 

Teams "too good to go down" have done it before, and they'll do it again. I'm sure you're right though, surely a team containing the likes of Viduka, Smith & Milner could never get relegated.

 

 

Anyway, got to rush out to my local Sports World store now as there's a closing down sale on which is ending soon. Don't want to miss out.

[Guest Knightrider]

At the time, they handled Allardyce's sacking badly in my opinion and the timing was all wrong too because it came at a key point in the season which has since negatively effected the new man and with it the team's chances on the pitch of doing something positive this season.

 

But sometimes you have to take these risks (or sometimes they just come to a natural conclusion) and if KK proves an ultimate success, people will look back on Allardyce's sacking and the timing of it not to mention our lack of spending in the remainder of the window with different specs on because the ends would then have justified the means, just as people look back on with favour regarding Gullit's departure and the timing of it. Which lets not forget was not long after spending all the money which left Sir Bobby to scrap around for freebies and bargain basement buys for a period.

 

In short, while I was disappointed with Allardyce's sacking and especially the timing of it, really so, with time to think since however, I'm now of the opinion that these such decisions need to and can only really be judged in time or within full context which isn't now that's for sure.

 

For Ashley and Mort and indeed Wise and Co and Keegan too, they now all need to turn this around to theirs and our advantage, to basically move on and make sure that the decision to sack Allardyce at the stage they did and go the course they did like appointing KK and Wise etal and KK deciding not to bring anyone in, turns out for the best. And if that happens, we will all be delighted and will forget all about the episodes leading to KK's appointment and not spending any money in the window.

 

For what it's worth btw, I think they will turn this around and that KK will be a success. Not like the last time of course, but success in the shape of saving us from relegation and getting us back into the top 6 and playing good football.

 

I won't even mention trophies...