Ashley has failed Newcastle United.

[NE5]

As far as I can see this thread started with the question (and I paraphrase), "Did Ashley get the timing of Allardyce's sacking wrong?" It has developed into a debate, again as far as I understand it, about whether Ashley (and Mort) lack the necessary ambition to improve the club (or as some see it to continue to manage as effectively as the board of the plc, as was) so that it reaches its potential.

 

IMO if the timing of the sacking was wrong, it's only because it should have happened much, much earlier.

 

As for the secondary debate concerning the continuing development of the club it seems to me that the following are relevant:

 

Ashley has bought the club with his own money.

 

Ashley has settled debt with his own money.

 

The club is either now financially secure or more secure than it was before the debt was settled.

 

Ashley is a hard-nosed businessman who either wants to sell the club on at a profit, or is behaving in a more or less altruistic way. In either case there is no benefit to him of leaving the club in a worse position than he found it.

 

He has appointed staff so that the club has its own structures in respect of scouting thereby avoiding the situation where, if a manager leaves, the scouting network goes with him. I think Spurs and Chelsea have similar structures.

 

He has made money available to Keegan in amounts with which Keegan is satisfied will allow him to improve the team's performance in the coming seasons.

 

The main threat to us is relegation brought about by the performance of the manager appointed by the previous chairman. It's difficult to see who Keegan could have bought in the time that he had.

 

 

We will see if the new owners match the Champions League qualification of the old owners, including the 3 highest consecutive league positions in 50 years.

 

There are plenty of players who moved in the transfer window, but you can believe otherwise if you have some sort of agenda.

 

 

 

You have a talent for stating the obvious, 'We will see if the new owners match the Champions League qualification of the old owners, including the 3 highest consecutive league positions in 50 years.' Indeed we will should we live long enough.

 

There are plenty of players who moved in the transfer window. Some, I believe, from Brentford to Gillingham.

 

Do you think, given his not inconsiderable financial outlay, that, irrespective of the performance of any board over the last fifty years or so, Ashley is a metaphorical turkey voting for an early Christmas? This is what essentially underpins your argument, isn't it, given my remarks above?

 

speaking of turkeys 

 

BTW, you missed Swindon to Newcastle, and spurs to Pompey, and Pompey to man city, bolton to Chelsea, and a 12m brazilian to the smoggies.......

 

 

 

So, to cut to the quick, do you think Ashley is the metaphorical turkey?

 

Show your workings, you may get a few extra marks.

 

Well, you inferred no good players moved to other top premiership clubs. I showed you were wrong didn't I.

 

Not really surprised you didn't comment on it.

 

You continue to state the obvious. Of course players were transferred.

 

So, is Ashley a turkey?

 

of course I state the obvious, in the hope you will get it. You can't argue with facts, or most sensible people wouldn't anyway.

 

As for turkey, I meant you. Maybe ostrich would be better though. You insinuated nobody transferred players apart from Brentford and Gillingham. I showed you to be wrong, so whats the problem, can't you admit you were making stuff up to suit an agenda you have ?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry, been tucked up. I won't respond to this one as it amounts to just a bit of personal insult, not much more.

 

As for the other response above I don't think that I've ever argued that "Hall/Shepherd" was all bad. I've simply pointed out the last five years. Freddie was past his 'best before'. I've seen nothing cogent from you to the contrary. The time had come for a change.

 

now. Being ready for a change is a completely different argument altogether to saying someone has done a shite job and been a shite chairman, major shareholder, whatever you want to call it.

 

The question is that it is yet to be proven the new board are better. If they are, we are quite lucky, meaning those Champions League qualifications are about to be repeated, or hopefully bettere. We won't bother mentioning that so far, they have shown nothing like it.

 

 

 

[ChezGiven]

Given everything going on in the game and the new investment no one can really argue that the time wasnt right for new ownership.

 

Trying to partition the previous board into anything other than a 15 year period from 92 to 07 is just semantics. In that period we were fucking great. Lets hope the next 15 years are just as good if not better. I will admit that the new board are operating in more competitive environment but that just means they will have to work harder at it. 

[NE5]

Given everything going on in the game and the new investment no one can really argue that the time wasnt right for new ownership.

 

Trying to partition the previous board into anything other than a 15 year period from 92 to 07 is just semantics. In that period we were fucking great. Lets hope the next 15 years are just as good if not better. I will admit that the new board are operating in more competitive environment but that just means they will have to work harder at it. 

 

Quite correct, it isn't that difficult to look at the whole picture

 

 

[fredbob]

What I find hilarious is that I know with absolute certainty that if this season we had still been under the old board, and the same decisions had been made, the very people who are now defending Ashley & Mort would be absolutely vilifying Shepherd for it.

 

It's not so strange, Shepherd had used up any goodwill a long time ago. If Ashley and Mort make blunder after blunder with their decision-making they'll soon find support dwindling just like the old board. In the meantime you can either buy in and see if they deliver, or you can decide they don't know what they are doing and hark back to the Shepherd glory years.

 

 

the hilarious thing about this, is you seem to have convinced yourself that the new board have done better already

 

I'm not convinced of anything, but will give the benefit of the doubt until I know better. If you can tell me for definite that we are doomed to failure next season under the new regime and why I'll listen, otherwise your conjecture's no better than mine really.

 

Except, mine isn't "opinion".

 

The highest 3 consecutive league positions in 50 years is a FACT AND NOT OPINION As is also the FACT that only 4 clubs have qualified for europe more than us in the last decade, and also in the last 15 years. Your "opinion" may tell you different if you like but I prefer to go by facts.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Have we been here before?

 

 

 

and your "opinion" is that these facts aren't facts, correct ?  mackems.gif

 

"Facts" which dont tell the full story, or are a true reflection of the clubs actual position. What a load of bollocks. You can state stats and "facts" till the moon turns to cheese but if you cant use them with the correct perspective then they are in essence, meaningless, its exactly what you are doing, and its actually laughable that you belittle other peoples opinions when they show the same level of wieght that your crappy facts do.

 

"7 European qualifications in 10 years" holds about as much weight as "we were in decline"

 

 

I can guarantee you one thing fredbob, if the club follows the path of spending little money and relying on young players which you trumpeted on about as being the way to go only a few weeks ago, we will decline at a massive rate while waiting for all these young players to mature into the new Gazza.

 

 

 

Ok, well if you appply context and perspective to what i say then you might finally see what i am talking about, it seems you are bereft of both. I never for one second said we shouldnt spend alot of money over the course of the season, i was against sepnding too much money in january. I gave the reason that jan is a bad time to spend money because of the inflated prices and because Allardyce hadnt proved to be a success with any of the signings he'd made, i actually advocated spending moeny where it was essential but not where it wasnt. As it turned out there werent many signing that were made which we needed desperately, however i advocated Keegan getting money because the squad wasnt his own, its always important for a new manager to imprint his own qualities into the team.

 

Ill always say that rebuilding the youth side will be of major benefit to the club long term and i stand by it, however to suggest that i think this is the best and only way to make a success of the club it quite frankly ridiculous, im very aware that money needs to be spent and i have, from the very start said that summer is the best time to spend big.

 

You have me down as someone who has an agenda against Shephard, but i dont, i just say things how i see it, and forgive me for addressing him persoanlly for the deficiencies at the club, im well aware that the board is involved etc etc, but as a chairman it was job to be the boards representative to the public, he takes the flak for the decisions the board makes even if they arent his own, its the way the world works.

 

I am persoanlly of the opinion that the decline of the club occuring at the same time that Shephard was chairman was far more than coindence.

[Baggio]

NE5's wank material sorted out for the night, nice one Fredbob.

[NE5]

What I find hilarious is that I know with absolute certainty that if this season we had still been under the old board, and the same decisions had been made, the very people who are now defending Ashley & Mort would be absolutely vilifying Shepherd for it.

 

It's not so strange, Shepherd had used up any goodwill a long time ago. If Ashley and Mort make blunder after blunder with their decision-making they'll soon find support dwindling just like the old board. In the meantime you can either buy in and see if they deliver, or you can decide they don't know what they are doing and hark back to the Shepherd glory years.

 

 

the hilarious thing about this, is you seem to have convinced yourself that the new board have done better already

 

I'm not convinced of anything, but will give the benefit of the doubt until I know better. If you can tell me for definite that we are doomed to failure next season under the new regime and why I'll listen, otherwise your conjecture's no better than mine really.

 

Except, mine isn't "opinion".

 

The highest 3 consecutive league positions in 50 years is a FACT AND NOT OPINION As is also the FACT that only 4 clubs have qualified for europe more than us in the last decade, and also in the last 15 years. Your "opinion" may tell you different if you like but I prefer to go by facts.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

Have we been here before?

 

 

 

and your "opinion" is that these facts aren't facts, correct ?  mackems.gif

 

"Facts" which dont tell the full story, or are a true reflection of the clubs actual position. What a load of bollocks. You can state stats and "facts" till the moon turns to cheese but if you cant use them with the correct perspective then they are in essence, meaningless, its exactly what you are doing, and its actually laughable that you belittle other peoples opinions when they show the same level of wieght that your crappy facts do.

 

"7 European qualifications in 10 years" holds about as much weight as "we were in decline"

 

 

I can guarantee you one thing fredbob, if the club follows the path of spending little money and relying on young players which you trumpeted on about as being the way to go only a few weeks ago, we will decline at a massive rate while waiting for all these young players to mature into the new Gazza.

 

 

 

Ok, well if you appply context and perspective to what i say then you might finally see what i am talking about, it seems you are bereft of both. I never for one second said we shouldnt spend alot of money over the course of the season, i was against sepnding too much money in january. I gave the reason that jan is a bad time to spend money because of the inflated prices and because Allardyce hadnt proved to be a success with any of the signings he'd made, i actually advocated spending moeny where it was essential but not where it wasnt. As it turned out there werent many signing that were made which we needed desperately, however i advocated Keegan getting money because the squad wasnt his own, its always important for a new manager to imprint his own qualities into the team.

 

Ill always say that rebuilding the youth side will be of major benefit to the club long term and i stand by it, however to suggest that i think this is the best and only way to make a success of the club it quite frankly ridiculous, im very aware that money needs to be spent and i have, from the very start said that summer is the best time to spend big.

 

You have me down as someone who has an agenda against Shephard, but i dont, i just say things how i see it, and forgive me for addressing him persoanlly for the deficiencies at the club, im well aware that the board is involved etc etc, but as a chairman it was job to be the boards representative to the public, he takes the flak for the decisions the board makes even if they arent his own, its the way the world works.

 

I am persoanlly of the opinion that the decline of the club occuring at the same time that Shephard was chairman was far more than coindence.

 

I am personally of the opinion that you have one hell of an agenda. I too, consider that I see the pragmatic and realistic nature of things, which is why when I say only 4 clubs have qualified for europe more than us in the last decade, you simply cannot argue with it. Its also entirely realistic that anyone who thinks clubs who are 2nd in the league stay there forever to be completely detached from reality.

 

It's also entirely truthful to say that the first 5 years of the Hall and Shepherd era were entirely down to a manager chosen by Hall Jnr, Shepherd and Fletcher, whether that suits your opinion or not, its the truth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[NE5]

NE5's wank material sorted out for the night, nice one Fredbob.

 

such comments only demean yourself baggy lad. Nobody else, just you, just the person who makes the silly comments ........

 

mackems.gif

 

I'm going out later lad, but I won't be scanning and posting on internet message boards with my phone when I'm out.  mackems.gif

 

Cheers

 

 

[Baggio]

That's because you've got a Nokia 3210, Steve. mackems.gif

[NE5]

That's because you've got a Nokia 3210, Steve. mackems.gif

 

oh dear.

 

Look at my phone girlies isn't it soopa

 

mackems.gif

[Dave]

Third time lucky eh?

[NE5]

Third time lucky eh?

 

throw caution to the wind 

[Mick]

That's because you've got a Nokia 3210, Steve. mackems.gif

 

The 3210's his next upgrade, he's still using his one for now, it works.

 

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3483/mobilewv0.jpg

 

 

[Baggio]

Yeah, it's either my phone or my Timex indiglo watch that does it, then when I whisper in their ear that I've got a freeview box at home their legs turn to jelly.

[Mick]

Yeah, it's either my phone or my Timex indiglo watch that does it, then when I whisper in their ear that I've got a freeview box at home their legs turn to jelly.

 

I thought the tablet in the drink had more to do with their legs turning to jelly than the freeview box.

[Baggio]

No Mick, I've given date rape up for lent.

[Mick]

No Mick, I've given date rape up for lent.

 

 

Just for lent or more long term?

 

Either way it's still got to be seen as a step in the right direction, well done. 

[Baggio]

I'll see how it goes before making any sort of long term commitment, if I keep pulling them by flashing my phone at them then I'll knock the drink spiking on the head for good.

[Mick]

I'll see how it goes before making any sort of long term commitment, if I keep pulling them by flashing my phone at them then I'll knock the drink spiking on the head for good.

 

You clearly have your life mapped out, more power to you, good luck.

 

Does the phone just do one flash or can you change the flashes?  I was just wondering in any particular flash worked better than another, I can see a possible niche market in flashing.

[Baggio]

It's not a bad phone, probably the 5th best phone i've had over the past decade if that's any help.

[Mick]

It's not a bad phone, probably the 5th best phone i've had over the past decade if that's any help.

 

What's it like in Europe?

[NE5]

That's because you've got a Nokia 3210, Steve. mackems.gif

 

The 3210's his next upgrade, he's still using his one for now, it works.

 

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3483/mobilewv0.jpg

 

 

I'm pretty sure that these last 2 posts have shown up the pair of you 2 for being the pair of idiots that you are.

 

Had a good night out have we boys  mackems.gif

 

Oh dear.

 

 

[NE5]

It's not a bad phone, probably the 5th best phone i've had over the past decade if that's any help.

 

What's it like in Europe?

 

Europe ? Now there's a memory. It's where that man who called you nasty names ran the club you say you support and played there more than any other chairman in the clubs history

 

Fancy that eh  mackems.gif

 

Edit.

 

Whats the betting the 2 stooges don't respond to this with even half baked intelligence     

[madras]

It's not a bad phone, probably the 5th best phone i've had over the past decade if that's any help.

 

What's it like in Europe?

 

Europe ? Now there's a memory. It's where that man who called you nasty names ran the club you say you support and played there more than any other chairman in the clubs history

 

Fancy that eh  mackems.gif

d'you think we'd have got back into europe with a fat fred board ?

[NE5]

It's not a bad phone, probably the 5th best phone i've had over the past decade if that's any help.

 

What's it like in Europe?

 

Europe ? Now there's a memory. It's where that man who called you nasty names ran the club you say you support and played there more than any other chairman in the clubs history

 

Fancy that eh  mackems.gif

d'you think we'd have got back into europe with a fat fred board ?

 

I'm pretty confident we will get back into europe with a board that backs their managers. I don't see what personalities has to do with it. Unless you are one of those who are massively offended by being called nasty names and for some strange reason conclude that such things mean that it makes them shit chairman who don't back their managers ?

 

As has been said. Haven't things been GREAT since the new board came in who were automatically  better on account of not being fat bastards who ate all the pies

 

 

[Thespence]

As has been said. Haven't things been GREAT since the new board came in who were automatically  better on account of not being fat bastards who ate all the pies

 

Things are pretty much the same on the field as we finished 13th last year, 7th the year before that & 14th year before that.