We need to spend £ 150 million..............

[ChezGiven]

I reckon Shearer's equivalent price today, given inflation for British players of that calibre, is around £25-30m.

 

You rate him the Rio bracket. Dont you think Shearer would break the domestic club transfer record. Dont let the battering ram we had in his last few seasons get mixed up with powerhouse we signed.

 

Ok more then, just adds weight to the idea if you want world class, you have to spend a lot of money.

 

Alternatively, you could take the view that a good scouting system will save you millions. Instead of Shearer for £30m, I'd rather have Berbatov, Young, Arteta and Elano for a combined, what, £28m?

 

Well lets put that world class scouting system to work then!

 

Oh hang on...

[Guest Knightrider]

I'd rather we held out the big money until we had footballing incentives to offer.

 

We don't need stars, we just need options. The problem isn't that the players aren't good enough, it's that we have to play them regardless.

 

I'd like to see us unearth the next Lescott or Cahill.

 

 

You balance the two. For every Lescott or Cahill you sign a Yakuba or an Andy Johnson, expensive but proven. A step up. Everton haven't improved by spending meager amounts, Moyes has actually done the very things we'll need. He's spent big (in relative terms for a club like Everton) on the right players, at the right time with a mixture of cheaper buys thrown in.

 

We need to follow suit but on a bigger scale (financially) and I would rather our Lescotts and Cahills were signed in their youth which is what we seem to be doing thankfully as I don't think we can afford to plunder the lower leagues for talent, or rather provide such players with the platform to blossom, which Everton could due to low expectations and more open first-team doors. The more they improve however, the less the future type Lescotts and Cahills will work for them. Indeed, to kick on they will have to upgrade their own transfer policy in the way that Spurs have done so. Buy proven for the first-team, buy young for the future first-team. Remember when Jol took over, they bought a lot of players, mostly average, to build that squad. I think we've done that already under Big Sam, without really improving the first-team. We need to buy quality that will walk into the first-team demoting current regulars to the squad thus improving that with the idea that these average squad players be phased out by emerging youth with a near future policy to simply buy one or two top quality players each season ala Man Utd.

[Wullie]

I reckon Shearer's equivalent price today, given inflation for British players of that calibre, is around £25-30m.

 

You rate him the Rio bracket. Dont you think Shearer would break the domestic club transfer record. Dont let the battering ram we had in his last few seasons get mixed up with powerhouse we signed.

 

Ok more then, just adds weight to the idea if you want world class, you have to spend a lot of money.

 

Alternatively, you could take the view that a good scouting system will save you millions. Instead of Shearer for £30m, I'd rather have Berbatov, Young, Arteta and Elano for a combined, what, £28m?

 

Well lets put that world class scouting system to work then!

 

Oh hang on...

 

Well, quite. But I hope we don't go and buy Ashton, Bridge, Brown and Deco for a combined £893m.

[Dave]

End of the day, we're not in a position to challenge the top four right now. Regardless of what we can offer in wages and signing-on fees, I just can't see players of the calibre needed to transform us so drastically coming here this summer. In fact I can't believe it could happen for a second.

 

So our focus moves down a little towards a top six or seven position, meaning our rivals are Villa, Spurs, Everton, City and Portsmouth.

 

How much have those lot spent each in the last year or two (or one summer, if we want to make a direct comparison) to make them suddenly the best of the rest? Genuine question, because I don't know.

 

I'm guessing it's not £150m, like.

[Happy Face]

Well, of course. How much would we pay now for players like Shearer and Les Ferdinand ?

 

The last 5 years running we've made trophy signings.  Woodgate, Kluivert (wages rather than fee), Boumsong, Luque & Owen, Martins....

 

Keegan only signed 3 players over £5M when he was last here and put us where we are.

 

Obviously fees go up, but in 93/94 while the transfer record was £5.5M+, Keegan was only spending £2M or £3M tops.

 

Ferdinand wasn't exactly a trophy signing either, Collymore went for £2M more at a time when we were title contenders.

 

Breaking the bank was always the exception rather than the rule.....until bad managers were given the job.

[Thespence]

Alternatively, you could take the view that a good scouting system will save you millions. Instead of Shearer for £30m, I'd rather have Berbatov, Young, Arteta and Elano for a combined, what, £28m?

 

Not sure if they are the best exmpales, as the same club did not buy all four of them.  Wegner & Ferguson did not sign any of them are you doubting their scouting networks?

 

[Thespence]

I reckon Shearer's equivalent price today, given inflation for British players of that calibre, is around £25-30m.

 

You rate him the Rio bracket. Dont you think Shearer would break the domestic club transfer record. Dont let the battering ram we had in his last few seasons get mixed up with powerhouse we signed.

 

Ok more then, just adds weight to the idea if you want world class, you have to spend a lot of money.

 

Alternatively, you could take the view that a good scouting system will save you millions. Instead of Shearer for £30m, I'd rather have Berbatov, Young, Arteta and Elano for a combined, what, £28m?

 

Well lets put that world class scouting system to work then!

 

Oh hang on...

 

Well, quite. But I hope we don't go and buy Ashton, Bridge, Brown and Deco for a combined £893m.

 

With Brown being out of contract in the summer I hope we dont pay any fee at all, never mind part of a bulk buy of £893m

[ChezGiven]

I reckon Shearer's equivalent price today, given inflation for British players of that calibre, is around £25-30m.

 

You rate him the Rio bracket. Dont you think Shearer would break the domestic club transfer record. Dont let the battering ram we had in his last few seasons get mixed up with powerhouse we signed.

 

Ok more then, just adds weight to the idea if you want world class, you have to spend a lot of money.

 

Alternatively, you could take the view that a good scouting system will save you millions. Instead of Shearer for £30m, I'd rather have Berbatov, Young, Arteta and Elano for a combined, what, £28m?

 

Well lets put that world class scouting system to work then!

 

Oh hang on...

 

Well, quite. But I hope we don't go and buy Ashton, Bridge, Brown and Deco for a combined £893m.

 

All players that would improve our shithouse tbf.

 

I would probably take all four of them for around £35/40m though. We'd still need another 4 players imo.

[Wullie]

Alternatively, you could take the view that a good scouting system will save you millions. Instead of Shearer for £30m, I'd rather have Berbatov, Young, Arteta and Elano for a combined, what, £28m?

 

Not sure if they are the best exmpales, as the same club did not buy all four of them.  Wegner & Ferguson did not sign any of them are you doubting their scouting networks?

 

What's the fact that the same club didn't buy them all got to do with anything? These players were all available at some point, and I'm pretty sure they weren't/aren't the only ones.

[Guest Knightrider]

End of the day, we're not in a position to challenge the top four right now. Regardless of what we can offer, I just can't see players of the calibre needed to transform us so drastically coming here this summer. In fact I can't believe it would happen one bit.

 

So our focus moves down a little towards a top six or seven position, meaning our rivals are Villa, Spurs, Everton, City and Portsmouth.

 

How much have those lot spent each in the last year or two (or one summer, if we want to make a direct comparison) to make them suddenly the best of the rest? Genuine question, because I don't know.

 

I'm guessing it's not £150m, like.

 

We are not going to sign genuine world-class players or even genuine top-class players, not without some form of X against their name anyway, ala Owen. But that doesn't mean we can't sign quality that is right for us to transform us drastically which Baggio alludes to what we will need to do. When we signed Robert and Bellamy I wouldn't have bracketed those two as top-class or world-class, talented yes, but that's it. What made them work and become top players for us was that they were the right talented players and I believe there are many players like them still out there, some will not cost an arm and a leg, some will. Some won't come, some will. Some will go to bigger clubs, some won't. We have to fight for those players.

[Wullie]

I reckon Shearer's equivalent price today, given inflation for British players of that calibre, is around £25-30m.

 

You rate him the Rio bracket. Dont you think Shearer would break the domestic club transfer record. Dont let the battering ram we had in his last few seasons get mixed up with powerhouse we signed.

 

Ok more then, just adds weight to the idea if you want world class, you have to spend a lot of money.

 

Alternatively, you could take the view that a good scouting system will save you millions. Instead of Shearer for £30m, I'd rather have Berbatov, Young, Arteta and Elano for a combined, what, £28m?

 

Well lets put that world class scouting system to work then!

 

Oh hang on...

 

Well, quite. But I hope we don't go and buy Ashton, Bridge, Brown and Deco for a combined £893m.

 

All players that would improve our shithouse tbf.

 

I would probably take all four of them for around £35/40m though. We'd still need another 4 players imo.

 

I'm staggered. I'd pay £20m max and think we'd been ripped off big time.

[Guest Knightrider]

I reckon Shearer's equivalent price today, given inflation for British players of that calibre, is around £25-30m.

 

You rate him the Rio bracket. Dont you think Shearer would break the domestic club transfer record. Dont let the battering ram we had in his last few seasons get mixed up with powerhouse we signed.

 

Ok more then, just adds weight to the idea if you want world class, you have to spend a lot of money.

 

Alternatively, you could take the view that a good scouting system will save you millions. Instead of Shearer for £30m, I'd rather have Berbatov, Young, Arteta and Elano for a combined, what, £28m?

 

Well lets put that world class scouting system to work then!

 

Oh hang on...

 

Well, quite. But I hope we don't go and buy Ashton, Bridge, Brown and Deco for a combined £893m.

 

All players that would improve our shithouse tbf.

 

I would probably take all four of them for around £35/40m though. We'd still need another 4 players imo.

 

I wouldn't. Individually they are all fine players but to me they would collectively represent damaged goods and not improve us drastically. I'd value that kind of buying along the same lines as Emre, Parker, Nobby and Owen. Good players but damaged goods or rather not the right kind of quality for us. Although I feel a Deco would be an inspired signing in the same vein as Beardsley was when we re-signed him. He would be a step up, a considerable one.

[ChezGiven]

I reckon Shearer's equivalent price today, given inflation for British players of that calibre, is around £25-30m.

 

You rate him the Rio bracket. Dont you think Shearer would break the domestic club transfer record. Dont let the battering ram we had in his last few seasons get mixed up with powerhouse we signed.

 

Ok more then, just adds weight to the idea if you want world class, you have to spend a lot of money.

 

Alternatively, you could take the view that a good scouting system will save you millions. Instead of Shearer for £30m, I'd rather have Berbatov, Young, Arteta and Elano for a combined, what, £28m?

 

Well lets put that world class scouting system to work then!

 

Oh hang on...

 

Well, quite. But I hope we don't go and buy Ashton, Bridge, Brown and Deco for a combined £893m.

 

All players that would improve our shithouse tbf.

 

I would probably take all four of them for around £35/40m though. We'd still need another 4 players imo.

 

I'm staggered. I'd pay £20m max and think we'd been ripped off big time.

Is Deco finished now? Not seen him play for a while. With Brown on a free in the summer, i could revise that figure down a bit of course (ahem).

[ChezGiven]

I reckon Shearer's equivalent price today, given inflation for British players of that calibre, is around £25-30m.

 

You rate him the Rio bracket. Dont you think Shearer would break the domestic club transfer record. Dont let the battering ram we had in his last few seasons get mixed up with powerhouse we signed.

 

Ok more then, just adds weight to the idea if you want world class, you have to spend a lot of money.

 

Alternatively, you could take the view that a good scouting system will save you millions. Instead of Shearer for £30m, I'd rather have Berbatov, Young, Arteta and Elano for a combined, what, £28m?

 

Well lets put that world class scouting system to work then!

 

Oh hang on...

 

Well, quite. But I hope we don't go and buy Ashton, Bridge, Brown and Deco for a combined £893m.

 

All players that would improve our shithouse tbf.

 

I would probably take all four of them for around £35/40m though. We'd still need another 4 players imo.

 

I wouldn't. Individually they are all fine players but to me they would collectively represent damaged goods and not improve us drastically. I'd value that kind of buying along the same lines as Emre, Parker, Nobby and Owen. Good players but damaged goods or rather not the right kind of quality for us. Although I feel a Deco would be an inspired signing in the same vein as Beardsley was when we re-signed him. He would be a step up, a considerable one.

 

I'm not arguing that we should buy them but i'm not surprised that escaped you.

[Dave]

Man City are the ultimate example of what people want us to do (in fact everyone was naming them as such an example when they wanted Allardyce out); namely turn around a very average side into a decent one in one summer. They got a good manager and spent BIG BIG BIG. But did they really?

 

About £35m in actual fact from what I can see, of which £5.8m was nicked from us (). That shouldn't be an impossible amount to spend, but neither will it require these crazy £100m figures etc.

[Baggio]

End of the day, we're not in a position to challenge the top four right now. Regardless of what we can offer in wages and signing-on fees, I just can't see players of the calibre needed to transform us so drastically coming here this summer. In fact I can't believe it could happen for a second.

 

So our focus moves down a little towards a top six or seven position, meaning our rivals are Villa, Spurs, Everton, City and Portsmouth.

 

How much have those lot spent each in the last year or two (or one summer, if we want to make a direct comparison) to make them suddenly the best of the rest? Genuine question, because I don't know.

 

I'm guessing it's not £150m, like.

 

We've spent more net than all of those clubs over the past 3 years apart from Spurs.

 

In the last 2 seasons we've spent more than Villa and 3 times the amount that Everton have net.

[madras]

Based on our record of big money buys, I'm suprised anyone wants to persist with the approach.

 

Don't expect different results if you continue to do the same thing!!

 

don't bother trying to go down the proven successful method then, buy average players instead and go down 

 

Can't wait until 6 years time and these 17 year old kids are all going to be the next Gazza, guaranteed

 

 

 

£85M spent in 3 years = zero success

 

As I've said, we need to spend well, not necessarily big.

 

spend well ? Of course you do, everybody thinks they are spending well otherwise they wouldn't spend. Plenty of people said openly that we spent well when we bought Boumsong and Luque. So why blame the fat b****** when they turned out to be s**** ?

 

Plenty of people also said we sold well when we peddled Robert and Bellamy for 4m quid.

 

You need to buy big to be successful though.

Its extremely rare for a club to bring through a nucleus of young players who all become top quality together, the only ones I can think of is the manure set ie Neville, Beckham, Scholes etc.........the Leeds team of the 70's, and the Everton team of the early to mid 80's, and even then they still bought big players, proven internationals

 

There are lots more who buy quality/trophy players, having a cheque book is part of football, I don't understand people who don't think we should try and capatilise on our fanbase.

 

just out of curiosity NE5 how much debt do you reckon it is safe to rack up in this glory chase ?

 

oh, I don't think manure, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea will be worried too much about their accumulated debts

 

As TT has just said, lets spend nothing [stop speculating] and see how far that gets us.

 

 

arsenal and manure have the turnover to comfortably finance those debts(also year on year opersting profits)...chelsea have abramovic.

 

liverpool have gillett and hicks whom the fans are trying to get rid of cos they have saddled the club with loads of debt that has the fans bricking it as many don't think they can sustain the debt and still challange for anything.

 

 

[Wullie]

Dunno about Deco, not seen him either, but I think signing a 30 year old (31 in the summer) who would command a mega wage, a hefty transfer fee and who is on the outs at a bigger club would be a huge mistake. Would he really have the hunger at his age? Smells like Butt, Kluivert, Duff etc all over again. Ashton's a crock and can't even get his game ahead of Carlton Cole when he's fit, Bridge is extremely overrated and I feel Brown is a player who looks good at Man Utd and not so good elsewhere when the pressure is on.

 

They were just examples. But they're the type of easy options that we go for too often and end up regretting. They've also been heavily linked with us - I realise that means next to nowt like.

[Guest Knightrider]

I reckon Shearer's equivalent price today, given inflation for British players of that calibre, is around £25-30m.

 

You rate him the Rio bracket. Dont you think Shearer would break the domestic club transfer record. Dont let the battering ram we had in his last few seasons get mixed up with powerhouse we signed.

 

Ok more then, just adds weight to the idea if you want world class, you have to spend a lot of money.

 

Alternatively, you could take the view that a good scouting system will save you millions. Instead of Shearer for £30m, I'd rather have Berbatov, Young, Arteta and Elano for a combined, what, £28m?

 

Well lets put that world class scouting system to work then!

 

Oh hang on...

 

Well, quite. But I hope we don't go and buy Ashton, Bridge, Brown and Deco for a combined £893m.

 

All players that would improve our shithouse tbf.

 

I would probably take all four of them for around £35/40m though. We'd still need another 4 players imo.

 

I wouldn't. Individually they are all fine players but to me they would collectively represent damaged goods and not improve us drastically. I'd value that kind of buying along the same lines as Emre, Parker, Nobby and Owen. Good players but damaged goods or rather not the right kind of quality for us. Although I feel a Deco would be an inspired signing in the same vein as Beardsley was when we re-signed him. He would be a step up, a considerable one.

 

I'm not arguing that we should buy them but i'm not surprised that escaped you.

 

Oh it never escaped me, although it doesn't surprise me that you assumed it did.

[NE5]

If i may interject, the point of my earlier post was to highlight the need to spend and the need to GAMBLE.

 

Players that are dead certs will go to bigger clubs unless the timing of the market is in our favour. We need to overpay some talent, we need to gamble on some more talent and we need make clubs offers they cant refuse. Some of it might come off, with a bit of luck. As it did for SBR eventually. Sort of.

 

is the correct answer

 

EDIT. I think we should have offered money for David Bentley, and gambled. Now he will cost more in the summer. The day we can't tempt the best players from the likes of Blackburn, is the day we are , eeerrr.......back to the days pre-Shepherd and Hall in fact.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Buying talent is ALWAYS  a gamble, invariably some work out, some are great and some average. It should never deter one from spending and showing ambition as this will attract MORE talent along the line.

 

We've had some big money failures in the past, but that was in main due to bad management and poor scouting. This is in the process of being rectified as we speak. THere is no club out there who haven't purchased duffers for big money from time to time.

 

oh, I totally agree. Just because the chairman was a fat bastard who ate all the pies, and some of the big money buys didn't work out, doesn't mean the method is wrong. Only the judgement was [sometimes] wrong. The method was absolutely spot on in fact.

 

And as you say, every club has made bad judgements. Even the "big 4"

 

 

[Thespence]

Alternatively, you could take the view that a good scouting system will save you millions. Instead of Shearer for £30m, I'd rather have Berbatov, Young, Arteta and Elano for a combined, what, £28m?

 

Not sure if they are the best exmpales, as the same club did not buy all four of them.  Wegner & Ferguson did not sign any of them are you doubting their scouting networks?

 

What's the fact that the same club didn't buy them all got to do with anything? .

 

Because you have cherry picked 4 good players from 4 different clubs & said look what I could of signed for about £28 million & made it sound as simple, when it isn't as easy that.  The same clubs have signed Darren Bent, Zat knight, Krøldrup & Bianchi for more than £28m.

 

[Wullie]

Alternatively, you could take the view that a good scouting system will save you millions. Instead of Shearer for £30m, I'd rather have Berbatov, Young, Arteta and Elano for a combined, what, £28m?

 

Not sure if they are the best exmpales, as the same club did not buy all four of them.  Wegner & Ferguson did not sign any of them are you doubting their scouting networks?

 

What's the fact that the same club didn't buy them all got to do with anything? .

 

Because you have cherry picked 4 good players from 4 different clubs & said look what I could of signed for about £28 million & made it sound as simple, when it isn't as easy that.  The same clubs have signed Darren Bent, Zat knight, Krøldrup & Bianchi for more than £28m.

 

Fair point, but I wasn't saying that it's easy to find four players like that. However, even one or two will totally transform a team like ours.

[Cajun]

Every player we have signed over the last few years seems to fail completely.

[NE5]

Well, of course. How much would we pay now for players like Shearer and Les Ferdinand ?

 

The last 5 years running we've made trophy signings.  Woodgate, Kluivert (wages rather than fee), Boumsong, Luque & Owen, Martins....

 

Keegan only signed 3 players over £5M when he was last here and put us where we are.

 

Obviously fees go up, but in 93/94 while the transfer record was £5.5M+, Keegan was only spending £2M or £3M tops.

 

Ferdinand wasn't exactly a trophy signing either, Collymore went for £2M more at a time when we were title contenders.

 

Breaking the bank was always the exception rather than the rule.....until bad managers were given the job.

 

Woodgate ? A trophy signing for Spurs ?? [must be if he's a trophy signing for us too]. Don't get it, sorry, I think thats bollocks. Every club wants quality players like Woodgate, why do you object to him because he's a "trophy" signing

 

He's just actually won a trophy, as in yesterday .....

 

Kluivert was a stupid signing for a player with no interest who only came for the money, but again, lots of clubs have signed players who only move for the money. And the vast majority of the clubs supporters were happy to sign him [not me though], so why are they now slating him as a "trophy" signing when they didnt' think that at the time ?

 

Martins ? How can he be a "trophy" signing when hardly any bugger had heard of him ??

 

For me, a "trophy" signing is someone signed by a club acting small but pretending to act big, ie trying to kid the fans they have ambition when they don't. Examples being NUFC when we bougth Keegan as a player, and Peter Withe [although how the f*** bill McGarry managed to persuade him to move here I'll never know]

 

 

 

 

[Guest Knightrider]

Dunno about Deco, not seen him either, but I think signing a 30 year old (31 in the summer) who would command a mega wage, a hefty transfer fee and who is on the outs at a bigger club would be a huge mistake. Would he really have the hunger at his age? Smells like Butt, Kluivert, Duff etc all over again. regretting.

 

Under Keegan I think such a signing could prove inspired. I'd be far more confident of a Deco actually benefiting our team with KK pulling the strings. More Beardsley than Duff. Regarding Kluivert, when he played he usually did the business but Souness didn't know what to do with him and he was wasted here.