Two Players We Still Haven't Replaced

[Dave]

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board.

[NE5]

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board.

 

not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point.

 

I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came.

 

I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim.

 

I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it.

 

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

[jimmymag]

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board.

 

not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point.

 

I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came.

 

I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim.

 

I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it.

 

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

Any fair minded person couldn't criticize the current board for their spending on players since they took over the club. I wouldn't have trusted Allardyce, a manager they inherited, to spend a large lump of my cash either.

 

The time to judge the current board will be at the end of the summer transfer spending frenzy when their true intentions for the club will be known.

[Dave]

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

What, like Ozzie with that dream thing? Yeah right. Card marked.

[Guest Knightrider]

before clicking into this thread i thought "f****** stupid,trying to replace like for like" then i lookd at the two players in question and take it back. i'm not one to say "told you so" or owt like that but.....you  know theres a "but" coming...but they were "the" midfielders" not as today attacking or defensive...they done both and read the game to cover for others (and others of those teams done it for them).

 

 

team players in a team game.

 

Aye, it's funny how the job of midfielders has changed at the highest levels isn't it? Used to be that the midfielders were 'complete' players, who could both get forward and back. RObert Lee was a great passer and good goal scorer, but I also remember him being one of the hardest tacklers around for a lot of years. Now you've got the specialised attackign and defensive players, prime example being Chelsea with Makelele and Lampard. Even the likes of Peter Reid, who was essentially a ball winner, still got forward (not neccesarliy scoring but supporting the attacks). And Souness, who everyone seems to remember as a ball winner, was a mint passer.

I play in midield on Saturdays and Sundays and I know people start screaming blue murder if I'm not supporting attacks and getting back - I wonder why its changed at Premier and Champions League level?  Maybe its a more European thing to have defensive midfielders - when you think of the likes of Tigana and Deshchamps, they never used to get much further forward than the half way line (only seen Tigana on videos mind but can't think of another example off the top of me head).

 

I blame modern coaching on younger ages. The likes of Lee et al grew up playing in all kinds of positions so they could do it all, today kids are groomed to play a certain role or to be a certain type of player, the majority of them anyway. This is why we are getting specialised players and roles in teams. Rob Lee wasn't a brilliant footballer in terms of skill or flair but he knew the game inside out as a midfielder because as a kid he wasn't pigeon holed.

 

Could well be mate, could well be. I don't know how they're coached these days (or even how they used to be coached!) so will take your word for it.

 

Kids are over coached these days, mainly by idiots who haven't a clue, when in reality all they need is a ball and left to their own imagination, i.e. street football which is dead in this country sadly, an environment that sustained the game all the way up to the early 90s and gave us greats like Best, Shearer, Gazza, Wor Jackie etc. In street football you play anywhere and everywhere, you develop an ability to defend, attack, dribble, play with either foot, score goals and basically everything else. In modern kids' football you get picked to be a defender or a midfielder, you get told where to run, what to do and even your decision making is being sort of made for you with screaming parents and coaches yelling "shoot", "get rid", "down the line" or my fave (worst actually) "not there" which is don't dribble/do a trick/show off in your own half. Basically dumbing down the fun, pleasure and natural flair in kids and putting the fear of failure into them while breeding a win at all costs mentality. In short an England team that fails to qualify for a tournament losing to Croatia who weren't even a nation until recent.

[Baggio]

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board.

 

not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point.

 

I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came.

 

I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim.

 

I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it.

 

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

I've proven sicsfingeredmongs sell to buy policy idea to be bollocks, he's got all his dates wrong.

 

As for the new lot, nobody has said they've done better or anything of the sort, they've made mistakes as did Shepherd when he first took charge as chairman, people want to give them the benefit of the doubt though and hope they learn from their mistakes, in the same way people gave Shepherd the benefit of the doubt when giving Dalglish millions in the Summer and sacking him 2 games into the season, or how he gave Gullit money and sacked him leaving Bobby to try and save us with next to no money, people didn't care about that when Robson turned it around because it was in the past, the same way that nobody will care about the new lots shit first season if Keegan turns it around over the next few years.

 

People hate Shepherd because he undermined Robson all through the Summer, sold players behind his back and finally sacked him to replace him with Souness, he then replaced him with Roeder, 2 of the worst managers the league has ever seen and the man employed them back to back, as well as throwing money at one of them to try and cover up for him being an awful manager which left us in the financial position we were in when Ashley took over, we were fucked basically.

 

Now from 2004 to 2007 Shepherd proved he wasn't learning from his mistakes which is when the majority turned on him, and if Ashley and Mort don't learn from past mistakes then people will be wanting them out too, until then try and get over the fact Shepherd has gone and get behind the Keegan and Ashley era, they've got rid of a manager that was fucking useless here in Allardyce and replaced him Keegan, a manager that we know you're happy about and he's said the money is there for transfers if he wants it, something else you should be happy about.

 

The constant whinging about the slightest little thing is getting fucking pathetic when you won't tell us what you would have done different.

 

Give Allardyce more money? The bloke spent £18 million on Barton, Enrique and Smith ffs, why would people want to give him any more money to waste?

 

Give Keegan money? The money is there, he's said that himself and Southgate said a bid was excepted for Woodgate, are they both lying? I'd have loved him to have brought 3 or 4 top quality players in but for whatever reason he didn't, but that decision was his unless he's lying which I'd like to think he wouldn't.

 

Sacking Allardyce? The bloke was fucking shite man, Shepherd wasn't to know how bad he was when he employed him, neither was Ashley when he decided to keep him on, or you and me when we were both happy to have him here, he had his chance and was useless.

 

The timing of the sacking? You've said yourself that the timing doesn't matter so it can't be that.

 

Bringing Keegan back? You've said yourself how happy you're to have him back.

 

 

I really can't see what point you're trying to make by coming on here moaning and sniping every single day.

[Dave]

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board.

 

not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point.

 

I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came.

 

I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim.

 

I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it.

 

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

I've proven sicsfingeredmongs sell to buy policy idea to be bollocks, he's got all his dates wrong.

 

As for the new lot, nobody has said they've done better or anything of the sort, they've made mistakes as did Shepherd when he first took charge as chairman, people want to give them the benefit of the doubt though and hope they learn from their mistakes, in the same way people gave Shepherd the benefit of the doubt when giving Dalglish millions in the Summer and sacking him 2 games into the season, or how he gave Gullit money and sacked him leaving Bobby to try and save us with next to no money, people didn't care about that when Robson turned it around because it was in the past, the same way that nobody will care about the new lots shit first season if Keegan turns it around over the next few years.

 

People hate Shepherd because he undermined Robson all through the Summer, sold players behind his back and finally sacked him to replace him with Souness, he then replaced him with Roeder, 2 of the worst managers the league has ever seen and the man employed them back to back, as well as throwing money at one of them to try and cover up for him being an awful manager which left us in the financial position we were in when Ashley took over, we were fucked basically.

 

Now from 2004 to 2007 Shepherd proved he wasn't learning from his mistakes which is when the majority turned on him, and if Ashley and Mort don't learn from past mistakes then people will be wanting them out too, until then try and get over the fact Shepherd has gone and get behind the Keegan and Ashley era, they've got rid of a manager that was fucking useless here in Allardyce and replaced him Keegan, a manager that we know you're happy about and he's said the money is there for transfers if he wants it, something else you should be happy about.

 

The constant whinging about the slightest little thing is getting fucking pathetic when you won't tell us what you would have done different.

 

Give Allardyce more money? The bloke spent £18 million on Barton, Enrique and Smith ffs, why would people want to give him any more money to waste?

 

Give Keegan money? The money is there, he's said that himself and Southgate said a bid was excepted for Woodgate, are they both lying? I'd have loved him to have brought 3 or 4 top quality players in but for whatever reason he didn't, but that decision was his unless he's lying which I'd like to think he wouldn't.

 

Sacking Allardyce? The bloke was fucking shite man, Shepherd wasn't to know how bad he was when he employed him, neither was Ashley when he decided to keep him on, or you and me when we were both happy to have him here, he had his chance and was useless.

 

The timing of the sacking? You've said yourself that the timing doesn't matter so it can't be that.

 

Bringing Keegan back? You've said yourself how happy you're to have him back.

 

 

I really can't see what point you're trying to make by coming on here moaning and sniping every single day.

 

Spot on.

[Guest BooBoo]

Excellent post by Baggio, well and truly putting NE5 in his place once and for all. 

[NE5]

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board.

 

not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point.

 

I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came.

 

I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim.

 

I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it.

 

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

Any fair minded person couldn't criticize the current board for their spending on players since they took over the club. I wouldn't have trusted Allardyce, a manager they inherited, to spend a large lump of my cash either.

 

The time to judge the current board will be at the end of the summer transfer spending frenzy when their true intentions for the club will be known.

 

Always assuming we stay up of course.

 

 

[NE5]

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

What, like Ozzie with that dream thing? Yeah right. Card marked.

 

 

oh, Ozzie the mackem WUM deserved it  mackems.gif

 

He's disappeared, has he changed his username to cover his embarrassment

[NE5]

Excellent post by Baggio, well and truly putting NE5 in his place once and for all.   

 

[Theregulars]

Let's be honest here, since Souness took over from Robson, have we bought anybody who has stood out in comparison to the majority of the players suggested here? Personally I'm struggling.

[mrmojorisin75]

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board.

 

not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point.

 

I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came.

 

I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim.

 

I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it.

 

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

Any fair minded person couldn't criticize the current board for their spending on players since they took over the club. I wouldn't have trusted Allardyce, a manager they inherited, to spend a large lump of my cash either.

 

The time to judge the current board will be at the end of the summer transfer spending frenzy when their true intentions for the club will be known.

 

Always assuming we stay up of course.

 

 

 

NE5, you use the word a lot in your posts, could you quantify what you consider "ambition" in football, particularly with reference to NUFC

 

what is ambition to you, i'm honestly interested

[NE5]

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board.

 

not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point.

 

I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came.

 

I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim.

 

I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it.

 

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

Any fair minded person couldn't criticize the current board for their spending on players since they took over the club. I wouldn't have trusted Allardyce, a manager they inherited, to spend a large lump of my cash either.

 

The time to judge the current board will be at the end of the summer transfer spending frenzy when their true intentions for the club will be known.

 

Always assuming we stay up of course.

 

 

 

NE5, you use the word a lot in your posts, could you quantify what you consider "ambition" in football, particularly with reference to NUFC

 

what is ambition to you, i'm honestly interested

 

Ambition ? Competing at the level we should be competing at. Buying the quality of players we should be buying. Setting high standards and seriously trying our best to win the trophies.

 

Don't mistake this for saying we should always be breaking transfer records, Rob Lee and Barry Venison were 2 of the best pound for pound buys we've made in recent years, but we should be prepared to do it, just like the other top clubs do. And if it means outbidding the likes of Liverpool then so be it, after all we should be aiming to beat these clubs, we wil never be better than them if we don't have players that they want themselves.

 

Included speculating in there. I don't accept a club like Newcastle should operate a "sell to buy" policy. Our fanbase is our guarantee, if a player comes along that we can't turn down then get him and make the sale later to accomodate him, not the other way round.

 

What would you younger lads feel - and I don't know how old you are - if the likes of Shearer x 3 had turned around and said they wanted to move to other clubs because their home town club was run like a shit corner shop and they didn't want to waste their career here ?

 

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board.

 

not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point.

 

I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came.

 

I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim.

 

I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it.

 

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

Any fair minded person couldn't criticize the current board for their spending on players since they took over the club. I wouldn't have trusted Allardyce, a manager they inherited, to spend a large lump of my cash either.

 

The time to judge the current board will be at the end of the summer transfer spending frenzy when their true intentions for the club will be known.

 

Always assuming we stay up of course.

 

 

 

NE5, you use the word a lot in your posts, could you quantify what you consider "ambition" in football, particularly with reference to NUFC

 

what is ambition to you, i'm honestly interested

 

Ambition ? Competing at the level we should be competing at. Buying the quality of players we should be buying. Setting high standards and seriously trying our best to win the trophies.

 

Don't mistake this for saying we should always be breaking transfer records, Rob Lee and Barry Venison were 2 of the best pound for pound buys we've made in recent years, but we should be prepared to do it, just like the other top clubs do. And if it means outbidding the likes of Liverpool then so be it, after all we should be aiming to beat these clubs, we wil never be better than them if we don't have players that they want themselves.

 

Included speculating in there. I don't accept a club like Newcastle should operate a "sell to buy" policy. Our fanbase is our guarantee, if a player comes along that we can't turn down then get him and make the sale later to accomodate him, not the other way round.

 

 

i wholeheartedly agree with the "make it happen" approach to transfers...money talks and bullshit walks, i don't understand the newfound "we can't sign anyone" theory, it's bollocks, money makes it happen

 

my fundamental problem with what you say is what you (and others) potentially consider ambition for NUFC now, in 2008...

 

turn back the clock to how fast our ambition changed positively in the early '90's...seems to me nobody can accept the change to our diminished ambition now

 

we have one hope for progress; the youth system that the board are talking about is implemented and comes to fruition over time, that's it...there's nothing else - the failure of the last board, to me, was to fail to identify they couldn't compete simply through finance and as admirable as their efforts may have been they were doomed to failure

 

the fact is the established 4 will take a great deal of opposing and so far as i can see only villa show the potential to do it as they recognise their "limitations"..spurs will collapse under the weight of their own finances and expectation as we did

 

money will have to play it's part as you point out but it's not the be all and end all of ambition

[OzzieMandias]

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

What, like Ozzie with that dream thing? Yeah right. Card marked.

 

 

oh, Ozzie the mackem WUM deserved it  mackems.gif

 

He's disappeared, has he changed his username to cover his embarrassment

 

Wrong as usual. I'm still around.

[NE5]

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

What, like Ozzie with that dream thing? Yeah right. Card marked.

 

 

oh, Ozzie the mackem WUM deserved it  mackems.gif

 

He's disappeared, has he changed his username to cover his embarrassment

 

Wrong as usual. I'm still around.

 

 

We are doing so much better without Craig Bellamy aren't we ?

 

 

[NE5]

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board.

 

not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point.

 

I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came.

 

I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim.

 

I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it.

 

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

Any fair minded person couldn't criticize the current board for their spending on players since they took over the club. I wouldn't have trusted Allardyce, a manager they inherited, to spend a large lump of my cash either.

 

The time to judge the current board will be at the end of the summer transfer spending frenzy when their true intentions for the club will be known.

 

Always assuming we stay up of course.

 

 

 

NE5, you use the word a lot in your posts, could you quantify what you consider "ambition" in football, particularly with reference to NUFC

 

what is ambition to you, i'm honestly interested

 

Ambition ? Competing at the level we should be competing at. Buying the quality of players we should be buying. Setting high standards and seriously trying our best to win the trophies.

 

Don't mistake this for saying we should always be breaking transfer records, Rob Lee and Barry Venison were 2 of the best pound for pound buys we've made in recent years, but we should be prepared to do it, just like the other top clubs do. And if it means outbidding the likes of Liverpool then so be it, after all we should be aiming to beat these clubs, we wil never be better than them if we don't have players that they want themselves.

 

Included speculating in there. I don't accept a club like Newcastle should operate a "sell to buy" policy. Our fanbase is our guarantee, if a player comes along that we can't turn down then get him and make the sale later to accomodate him, not the other way round.

 

 

i wholeheartedly agree with the "make it happen" approach to transfers...money talks and bullshit walks, i don't understand the newfound "we can't sign anyone" theory, it's bollocks, money makes it happen

 

my fundamental problem with what you say is what you (and others) potentially consider ambition for NUFC now, in 2008...

 

turn back the clock to how fast our ambition changed positively in the early '90's...seems to me nobody can accept the change to our diminished ambition now

 

we have one hope for progress; the youth system that the board are talking about is implemented and comes to fruition over time, that's it...there's nothing else - the failure of the last board, to me, was to fail to identify they couldn't compete simply through finance and as admirable as their efforts may have been they were doomed to failure

 

the fact is the established 4 will take a great deal of opposing and so far as i can see only villa show the potential to do it as they recognise their "limitations"..spurs will collapse under the weight of their own finances and expectation as we did

 

money will have to play it's part as you point out but it's not the be all and end all of ambition

 

I don't know mate. At the outset of the premier league and the brand new sky sports channel, the "big 5" who set out all the rules were Arsenal, Manu, Liverpool, Spurs and Everton. The untouchables.

 

Within a matter of a few years we had gatecrashed them and were the only serious contenders to Manu for the title. Blackburn had won it. Chelsea were nowhere.

 

Since then Spuds have dropped out for a long time, almost clawed their way back, and Everton too almost got relegated a couple of times and have now rebuilt.

 

None of these 3 teams ie Spurs, Everton or Chelsea can stand on their own feet and match us for potential. Chelsea won some cups under Gullit/Vialli having made a breakthrough [something we just couldn't quite manage]. Abramovic has now put them into the ManU bracket, but it will only last until he pulls out.

 

Things change. We have the fanbase. Forget these 40000 crowds that Villa get, Everton can get and Spuds can get. Forget even the 50000 crowds that Liverpool could get with a bigger stadium. If Keegan gets us back to where we were before, half the city will want to go to watch NUFC, just like the last time.

 

Biggest mistake the Halls and Shepherd made, was not to go ahead with the threat to move from St James Park and build a bigger ground somewhere else, when the plans to build the stadium at Castle Leazes were turned down.

 

 

 

 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board.

 

not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point.

 

I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came.

 

I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim.

 

I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it.

 

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

I've proven sicsfingeredmongs sell to buy policy idea to be bollocks, he's got all his dates wrong.

 

As for the new lot, nobody has said they've done better or anything of the sort, they've made mistakes as did Shepherd when he first took charge as chairman, people want to give them the benefit of the doubt though and hope they learn from their mistakes, in the same way people gave Shepherd the benefit of the doubt when giving Dalglish millions in the Summer and sacking him 2 games into the season, or how he gave Gullit money and sacked him leaving Bobby to try and save us with next to no money, people didn't care about that when Robson turned it around because it was in the past, the same way that nobody will care about the new lots shit first season if Keegan turns it around over the next few years.

 

People hate Shepherd because he undermined Robson all through the Summer, sold players behind his back and finally sacked him to replace him with Souness, he then replaced him with Roeder, 2 of the worst managers the league has ever seen and the man employed them back to back, as well as throwing money at one of them to try and cover up for him being an awful manager which left us in the financial position we were in when Ashley took over, we were fucked basically.

 

Now from 2004 to 2007 Shepherd proved he wasn't learning from his mistakes which is when the majority turned on him, and if Ashley and Mort don't learn from past mistakes then people will be wanting them out too, until then try and get over the fact Shepherd has gone and get behind the Keegan and Ashley era, they've got rid of a manager that was fucking useless here in Allardyce and replaced him Keegan, a manager that we know you're happy about and he's said the money is there for transfers if he wants it, something else you should be happy about.

 

The constant whinging about the slightest little thing is getting fucking pathetic when you won't tell us what you would have done different.

 

Give Allardyce more money? The bloke spent £18 million on Barton, Enrique and Smith ffs, why would people want to give him any more money to waste?

 

Give Keegan money? The money is there, he's said that himself and Southgate said a bid was excepted for Woodgate, are they both lying? I'd have loved him to have brought 3 or 4 top quality players in but for whatever reason he didn't, but that decision was his unless he's lying which I'd like to think he wouldn't.

 

Sacking Allardyce? The bloke was fucking shite man, Shepherd wasn't to know how bad he was when he employed him, neither was Ashley when he decided to keep him on, or you and me when we were both happy to have him here, he had his chance and was useless.

 

The timing of the sacking? You've said yourself that the timing doesn't matter so it can't be that.

 

Bringing Keegan back? You've said yourself how happy you're to have him back.

 

 

I really can't see what point you're trying to make by coming on here moaning and sniping every single day.

 

As good a post as I think I've ever read on here  :clap: :clap:

[ChezGiven]

Baggio, if we didnt have a sell to buy policy last summer, how come you insist that Smith was a replacement for Dyer? If the actual date the deal goes through proves anything. Which it doesnt anyway.

[NE5]

Baggio, if we didnt have a sell to buy policy last summer, how come you insist that Smith was a replacement for Dyer? If the actual date the deal goes through proves anything. Which it doesnt anyway.

 

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board.

 

not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point.

 

I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came.

 

I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim.

 

I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it.

 

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

Any fair minded person couldn't criticize the current board for their spending on players since they took over the club. I wouldn't have trusted Allardyce, a manager they inherited, to spend a large lump of my cash either.

 

The time to judge the current board will be at the end of the summer transfer spending frenzy when their true intentions for the club will be known.

 

Always assuming we stay up of course.

 

 

 

NE5, you use the word a lot in your posts, could you quantify what you consider "ambition" in football, particularly with reference to NUFC

 

what is ambition to you, i'm honestly interested

 

Ambition ? Competing at the level we should be competing at. Buying the quality of players we should be buying. Setting high standards and seriously trying our best to win the trophies.

 

Don't mistake this for saying we should always be breaking transfer records, Rob Lee and Barry Venison were 2 of the best pound for pound buys we've made in recent years, but we should be prepared to do it, just like the other top clubs do. And if it means outbidding the likes of Liverpool then so be it, after all we should be aiming to beat these clubs, we wil never be better than them if we don't have players that they want themselves.

 

Included speculating in there. I don't accept a club like Newcastle should operate a "sell to buy" policy. Our fanbase is our guarantee, if a player comes along that we can't turn down then get him and make the sale later to accomodate him, not the other way round.

 

 

i wholeheartedly agree with the "make it happen" approach to transfers...money talks and bullshit walks, i don't understand the newfound "we can't sign anyone" theory, it's bollocks, money makes it happen

 

my fundamental problem with what you say is what you (and others) potentially consider ambition for NUFC now, in 2008...

 

turn back the clock to how fast our ambition changed positively in the early '90's...seems to me nobody can accept the change to our diminished ambition now

 

we have one hope for progress; the youth system that the board are talking about is implemented and comes to fruition over time, that's it...there's nothing else - the failure of the last board, to me, was to fail to identify they couldn't compete simply through finance and as admirable as their efforts may have been they were doomed to failure

 

the fact is the established 4 will take a great deal of opposing and so far as i can see only villa show the potential to do it as they recognise their "limitations"..spurs will collapse under the weight of their own finances and expectation as we did

 

money will have to play it's part as you point out but it's not the be all and end all of ambition

 

I don't know mate. At the outset of the premier league and the brand new sky sports channel, the "big 5" who set out all the rules were Arsenal, Manu, Liverpool, Spurs and Everton. The untouchables.

 

Within a matter of a few years we had gatecrashed them and were the only serious contenders to Manu for the title. Blackburn had won it. Chelsea were nowhere.

 

Since then Spuds have dropped out for a long time, almost clawed their way back, and Everton too almost got relegated a couple of times and have now rebuilt.

 

None of these 3 teams ie Spurs, Everton or Chelsea can stand on their own feet and match us for potential. Chelsea won some cups under Gullit/Vialli having made a breakthrough [something we just couldn't quite manage]. Abramovic has now put them into the ManU bracket, but it will only last until he pulls out.

 

Things change. We have the fanbase. Forget these 40000 crowds that Villa get, Everton can get and Spuds can get. Forget even the 50000 crowds that Liverpool could get with a bigger stadium. If Keegan gets us back to where we were before, half the city will want to go to watch NUFC, just like the last time.

 

Biggest mistake the Halls and Shepherd made, was not to go ahead with the threat to move from St James Park and build a bigger ground somewhere else, when the plans to build the stadium at Castle Leazes were turned down.

 

 

all points taken but you have to accept that to compete financially in 2008 as vastly different from what it took to do so in the early to mid 90's?  there's no getting away from that; take man u as an example, as team that had just won the title and had a team based on the back of 10+ years dominace felt the need to spend 50m on 3 players

 

your point about everton/spurs etc... is a good one and it won't take much for us to catch them back up in a couple of years but look at spurs, they're throwing money around left right and centre and can't get near the CL

 

as i said at some point the shepherd "regime", for want of a better word, should have recognised that money wasn't going to do it alone...our squads were frequently imbalanced yet supplemented with quality players who carried us

 

for me the penny should have dropped, but didn't, under robson when we started signing younger players at reasonable fees who we then either moved on at profit or kept - we should have implemented this as club policy then to go hand in hand with our spending ability (much as spurs have done under ENIC)

 

i see this as something mort/ashley have recognised hence all the moves behind the scenes that i find very encouraging...however if they don't match that ambition with spending power we'll be fucked for a very long time

[Baggio]

Baggio, if we didnt have a sell to buy policy last summer, how come you insist that Smith was a replacement for Dyer? If the actual date the deal goes through proves anything. Which it doesnt anyway.

 

Because Allardyce went on tv and said he was his replacement?

 

When a player leaves you usually replace them, yet we were prepared to hang on to Dyer until we got the money we thought he was worth, in fact we signed Enrique a week before we sold Dyer, where does he fit in this imaginary buy to sell policy?

[Baggio]

Responding to people who slate Shepherd, and even make things up as Spider jerusalem did with his claim that he was responsible for losing Les Ferdinand such is the desperation of some people to blame him for anything they can think of, is simply just a reply stating facts where people are incorrect, or misrepresenting something. Nothing more and nothing less.

 

 

 

A fundamental error that he quickly accepted he had made. I don't expect that you'll ever stop referencing it from now on though, probably applying it to everyone and anyone who dares to criticise the previous board.

 

not the sort of error that people who know owt about the club would make, I suspect it was all just through eagerness to slate FS for something, or anything, which is the point.

 

I've said the previous board made mistakes, they must have done, otherwise we would have won the European Cup. My point is that replacing them would be very difficult and so far the actions - or non action of Ashley and Mort, in particular the very definite feeling that they have operated a "sell to buy" policy is a very dangerous one and one that any board with ambition would not pursue, especially at the lower spending levels that we have operated at since they came.

 

I think instead of claiming that I have a go at anyone who dares to criticise the board, people would be better off taking a more objective look at the current one, and look a bit more carefully at the facts I back up my comments with, which most definitely show that they in fact did a lot better than a lot of people claim.

 

I suspect more than a few people may be realising this by now but just won't admit it.

 

Edit. I have no intention of bringing this up with SJ again, now he has acknowledged his error, because you can't get fairer than that.

 

 

 

I've proven sicsfingeredmongs sell to buy policy idea to be bollocks, he's got all his dates wrong.

 

As for the new lot, nobody has said they've done better or anything of the sort, they've made mistakes as did Shepherd when he first took charge as chairman, people want to give them the benefit of the doubt though and hope they learn from their mistakes, in the same way people gave Shepherd the benefit of the doubt when giving Dalglish millions in the Summer and sacking him 2 games into the season, or how he gave Gullit money and sacked him leaving Bobby to try and save us with next to no money, people didn't care about that when Robson turned it around because it was in the past, the same way that nobody will care about the new lots shit first season if Keegan turns it around over the next few years.

 

People hate Shepherd because he undermined Robson all through the Summer, sold players behind his back and finally sacked him to replace him with Souness, he then replaced him with Roeder, 2 of the worst managers the league has ever seen and the man employed them back to back, as well as throwing money at one of them to try and cover up for him being an awful manager which left us in the financial position we were in when Ashley took over, we were fucked basically.

 

Now from 2004 to 2007 Shepherd proved he wasn't learning from his mistakes which is when the majority turned on him, and if Ashley and Mort don't learn from past mistakes then people will be wanting them out too, until then try and get over the fact Shepherd has gone and get behind the Keegan and Ashley era, they've got rid of a manager that was fucking useless here in Allardyce and replaced him Keegan, a manager that we know you're happy about and he's said the money is there for transfers if he wants it, something else you should be happy about.

 

The constant whinging about the slightest little thing is getting fucking pathetic when you won't tell us what you would have done different.

 

Give Allardyce more money? The bloke spent £18 million on Barton, Enrique and Smith ffs, why would people want to give him any more money to waste?

 

Give Keegan money? The money is there, he's said that himself and Southgate said a bid was excepted for Woodgate, are they both lying? I'd have loved him to have brought 3 or 4 top quality players in but for whatever reason he didn't, but that decision was his unless he's lying which I'd like to think he wouldn't.

 

Sacking Allardyce? The bloke was fucking shite man, Shepherd wasn't to know how bad he was when he employed him, neither was Ashley when he decided to keep him on, or you and me when we were both happy to have him here, he had his chance and was useless.

 

The timing of the sacking? You've said yourself that the timing doesn't matter so it can't be that.

 

Bringing Keegan back? You've said yourself how happy you're to have him back.

 

 

I really can't see what point you're trying to make by coming on here moaning and sniping every single day.

 

As good a post as I think I've ever read on here  :clap: :clap:

 

And I'm not surprised NE5 ignored it.

[ChezGiven]

Baggio, if we didnt have a sell to buy policy last summer, how come you insist that Smith was a replacement for Dyer? If the actual date the deal goes through proves anything. Which it doesnt anyway.

 

Because Allardyce went on tv and said he was his replacement?

 

When a player leaves you usually replace them, yet we were prepared to hang on to Dyer until we got the money we thought he was worth, in fact we signed Enrique a week before we sold Dyer, where does he fit in this imaginary buy to sell policy?

 

So none of the deals were financially linked then?