Happy Face Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Surely its fair to say that Souness is a better manager overall than Keegan? I know there is discontent towards Souness because of obvious reasons but he has throughtout his career won more things than keegan has and also done it in foreign leagues, there are obvious vairable which cant really be accounted for in greater details such as managing dominant teams but i think it is fair to say that at the end of the day, whenboth retire Sounes would be considered thebtter manager. Keegan has made bad teams better throughout his career. Souness has only ever made good teams worse. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Man Utd's second string couldnt beat half the premiership. wenger for me. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Would also have to say that Wenger has been a better manager. Ferguson made a side that became dominant in english football and didnt really have no one to match him on a consistent basis, Wenger came along and not only revolutionesed football, but created a team that not only matched Man U, but also bettered it. His tansfer record is phenomenal and his record at blending squads - i.e removing older players and bringing in new players is much better than Ferguson who could safely rely ona single formula of players throughout the mid 90's. Not only this but his stlye of football is wonderful, with style and more imporantly substance. I suppose Fergusons greatest achievements mark to a period where his team was the only dominant team in England however Wengers greatest achievement would be to break that dominance, which in my opinion is harder to do. Antoher question would be, would i have faith in Ferguson recreating a club like he did at Man U as much as i would trust Wenger to creat a club like he did at Arsenal? The answer for me would be no. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest alex Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Man Utd's second string couldnt beat half the premiership. wenger for me. Fair enough if you rate Wenger better but having a better reserve team (not sure they have looking at Man Utd's bench last night) doesn't make you a better manager, does it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RodrigoPalacio Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Arsene has a better accent. Other than that I'd say they were both canny good. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Surely its fair to say that Souness is a better manager overall than Keegan? I know there is discontent towards Souness because of obvious reasons but he has throughtout his career won more things than keegan has and also done it in foreign leagues, there are obvious vairable which cant really be accounted for in greater details such as managing dominant teams but i think it is fair to say that at the end of the day, whenboth retire Sounes would be considered thebtter manager. Keegan has made bad teams better throughout his career. Souness has only ever made good teams worse. Pretty broad generalisation, i mean, i suppose the question is do you think that Keegan could recreate what Souness did in the same stuation? Im not sure he could. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Man Utd's second string couldnt beat half the premiership. wenger for me. Fair enough if you rate Wenger better but having a better reserve team (not sure they have looking at Man Utd's bench last night) doesn't make you a better manager, does it? I meant he has transformed everything top to bottom. doesnt need to spend mega bucks too. look at net spend and they are down in 16th or 17th. so on THAT basis and being super competitive after all that i would say he was a better manager definetly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Face Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Surely its fair to say that Souness is a better manager overall than Keegan? I know there is discontent towards Souness because of obvious reasons but he has throughtout his career won more things than keegan has and also done it in foreign leagues, there are obvious vairable which cant really be accounted for in greater details such as managing dominant teams but i think it is fair to say that at the end of the day, whenboth retire Sounes would be considered thebtter manager. Keegan has made bad teams better throughout his career. Souness has only ever made good teams worse. Pretty broad generalisation, i mean, i suppose the question is do you think that Keegan could recreate what Souness did in the same stuation? Im not sure he could. Has Keegan left any club worse off than he found it? Has Souness. Pretty accurate generalisation I'd say. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcmk Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Better football played (imo) I trust him more when it comes to signings - Juan Veron?? Instills a belief in a side like no other. Arguably nurtures the youth better. Knows when to sell players at the right time. All valid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Better football played (imo) I trust him more when it comes to signings - Juan Veron?? Instills a belief in a side like no other. Arguably nurtures the youth better. Knows when to sell players at the right time. All valid The only thing that's valid in that is the better football played. The other qualities that you have listed are ones that Fergie possesses as well. Tell me he doesn't know when to sell players at the right time (Stam, VRoy, Smith, Butt, Beckham etc.). He knows how to nurture young talent (Ronaldo - see how much he's developed in 3 seasons - and of course the kids who won him the title) and the other two qualities are blatantly things that Fergie has as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I don't think he sold Stam at the right time or Paul McGrath for that matter. But all managers are allowed a mistake every now and again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Better football played (imo) I trust him more when it comes to signings - Juan Veron?? Instills a belief in a side like no other. Arguably nurtures the youth better. Knows when to sell players at the right time. All valid The only thing that's valid in that is the better football played. The other qualities that you have listed are ones that Fergie possesses as well. Tell me he doesn't know when to sell players at the right time (Stam, VRoy, Smith, Butt, Beckham etc.). He knows how to nurture young talent (Ronaldo - see how much he's developed in 3 seasons - and of course the kids who won him the title) and the other two qualities are blatantly things that Fergie has as well. There's never a wrong time to sell Alan Smith tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest float one in Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Arsene has a better accent. Other than that I'd say they were both canny good. Wholeheartedly disagree with you on this important point, Rodrigo my good man. Would far rather speak with a Govan accent than a mincy Frog one! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I don't think he sold Stam at the right time or Paul McGrath for that matter. But all managers are allowed a mistake every now and again. Those 2 sales were because of off-the-pitch matters though, weren't they? McGrath's drink problem and Stam's book? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.S.R. Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Arsene has a better accent. Other than that I'd say they were both canny good. Arsene sounds like he's straining for a shit every time he speaks. "Uuuuurgh.....I didn't see...hnggghh...the incident...." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I don't think he sold Stam at the right time or Paul McGrath for that matter. But all managers are allowed a mistake every now and again. Those 2 sales were because of off-the-pitch matters though, weren't they? McGrath's drink problem and Stam's book? Fergie reckoned McGrath was finished, but in truth he never really bothered with him, partly due to said drinking problem. But as proven at Villa when he was correctly managed, he was still world class. Fergie claims he sold Stam as he thought it was a good price, although I have heard him come out and actually say he regrets it now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 How was Stam sold at the right time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fugazi Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 How was Stam sold at the right time? He said he wasn't tbf. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superior Acuña Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I like watching Manu. I love seeing them bomb forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Ferguson runs a football club like no other, he beats anyone hands down at that. However Wenger is a better players manager and coach, his teams are better, his football is better and he gets more out of players in every aspect than Fergie who relies heavily on Man Utd's brand name and money to buy players to fit his philosophies where as Wenger actually makes them, not buys them, so to speak. They are both great however and any differences are marginal. I just prefer Wenger myself as he's a more rounded manager/coach than Fergie is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 I don't think he sold Stam at the right time or Paul McGrath for that matter. But all managers are allowed a mistake every now and again. Those 2 sales were because of off-the-pitch matters though, weren't they? McGrath's drink problem and Stam's book? Fergie reckoned McGrath was finished, but in truth he never really bothered with him, partly due to said drinking problem. But as proven at Villa when he was correctly managed, he was still world class. Fergie claims he sold Stam as he thought it was a good price, although I have heard him come out and actually say he regrets it now. You can't really argue with his selling policy as they keep improving even when he gets rid of good players. Perhaps he wanted to keep McGrath the footballer but not the alkie or dressing room character. He did go on to replace McGrath with Bruce/Pallister. Stam likewise with Ferdinand/Vidic. In short he was right to ditch those players or proved right. That's a great strength of Fergie's btw, he instinctively knows what's best or right or makes damn sure he even profits from potential mistakes. Smith being an example Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 Villa fans will say he was right to ditch McGrath like. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooj Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 How was Stam sold at the right time? Who said that like? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 How was Stam sold at the right time? Who said that like? Apisith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Knightrider Posted March 5, 2008 Share Posted March 5, 2008 People are assessing this all wrong. The thread didn't ask which manager is better at winning trophies, just who is the better manager. Myself, based on managerial and coaching qualities, then I'd say Wenger. Is Gary Neville a better player than Shearer btw? Surely when you look at two managers managing two of the best and biggest clubs in England then trophies is the only objective way of assessing who is best. It's obviously different for players. Is Souness a better manager than Keegan? One has bags of trophies, one has none. That's a different thing though. I was as specifc as I could be and yet you still seem to have missed my point about the comparison between Wenger and Ferguson (i.e. trophies are the only objective way to assess which of those two are best). There are loads of mitigating factors which point to KK being better than Souness imo despite the latter winning things. I didn't miss your point, I know what you mean. I just disagree with it or rather the whole counting trophies won to prove point when assessing a manager and indeed a player, hence my questions who is better KK or Souness, Neville or Shearer. Maybe because Wenger and Fergie are perhaps evenly matched, trophies won is the only way to decide, I concede that and fair enough. Don't agree with it though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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