James Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I'm sure that people can pick holes in the logic and assumptions, but please bear with this: Assume that the best players currently plying their trade in the proffessional game are the 600+ players who feature fairly regularly for one of the Top 25 ranked nations in the world. Assume the quality of these players is determined by their nations points score in the world rankings, ie Tevez = 1520, Arshavin = 856. Domestic clubs are entered into a ranking system based on the scores accumulated by their players, for example Werder Bremen score 10,481 as: Diego Brazil 1518 Mertsecraker Germany 1264 Fritz Germany 1264 Frings Germany 1264 Borowski Germany 1264 Almeida Portugal 1131 Klasnic Croatia 1044 Sanogo Ivory Coast 870 Rosenberg Sweden 862 Where do you reckon Newcastle will feature in the World Rankings based on this scoring system? And where would they feature if the rankings only included English clubs? I know the answers by the way both with and without Rozehnal and Emre, but I'm interested to observe people's assumptions on this first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Ok then... In the World: 50th with Roz and Emre 96th without In England: 9th with 18th without Acceptable or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Ok then... In the World: 50th with Roz and Emre 96th without In England: 9th with 18th without Acceptable or not? We need to see where you're getting this from James. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I've done the maths, two or three national teams a day. The players are either in their current or most recent national squads, or are absent due to injury or being rested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 James, you need to find a new hobby, a more stimulating job or just masturbate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 James, you need to find a new hobby, a more stimulating job or just masturbate. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 We have a squad that´s lacking in quantity and quality.. No need for a semi scientific approach for that observation sadly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Pretty interesting. Could you post up how many 'points' we have? And who are the teams ahead of us? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 James, you need to find a new hobby, a more stimulating job or just masturbate. Yep, post of the day for sure. mackems.gif Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 I'm doing a course next year that needs lots of maths and Excel, so I have been working out of maths textbooks doing self designed excel projects for a short time each day to help me do this kind of stuff quicker and better next year. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MaetihS Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 We are now longer a world famous club, if at all, we are well known for having a poor team and having crap seasons for the past few years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Pretty interesting. Could you post up how many 'points' we have? And who are the teams ahead of us? 1 Chelsea 21277 2 Real Madrid 19930 3 Barcelona 19425 4 AC Milan 16301 5 Inter Milan 16090 6 Man Utd 14125 7 Bayern Munich 14020 8 Liverpool 13677 9 Arsenal 13552 10 Lyon 12768 11 Werder Bremen 10481 12 HSV 10316 13 Juventus 9086 14 Panathanaikos 9017 15 Galatasaray 8869 16 Tottenham Hotspur 8681 17 Aston Villa 8568 18 Benfica 8532 19 Man City 8504 20 Steaua 8310 21 Portsmouth 7797 22 Stuttgart 7587 23 Sevilla 6948 24 Roma 6789 25 Valencia 6423 26 Schalke 6354 27 Celtic 6347 28 Atletico Madrid 6276 29 Villareal 5813 30 CSKA Moscow 5798 31 Nuremberg 5784 32 Marseille 5630 33 Lokomotiv Moscow 5516 34 Getafe 5445 35 Beitar Jerusalem 5430 36 Fenerbache 5290 37 Spartak Moscow 5244 38 Betis 5236 39 Zenit St. Petersburg 5136 40 Rangers 4917 41 Porto 4913 42 Leverkusen 4734 43 Udinese 4711 44 Frankfurt 4624 45 Feyenoord 4492 46 Dinamo Bucharest 4328 47 Libertad 4285 48 Deportivo 4275 49 Sporting 4250 50 Newcastle 4203 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MaetihS Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Pretty interesting. Could you post up how many 'points' we have? And who are the teams ahead of us? 1 Chelsea 21277 2 Real Madrid 19930 3 Barcelona 19425 4 AC Milan 16301 5 Inter Milan 16090 6 Man Utd 14125 7 Bayern Munich 14020 8 Liverpool 13677 9 Arsenal 13552 10 Lyon 12768 11 Werder Bremen 10481 12 HSV 10316 13 Juventus 9086 14 Panathanaikos 9017 15 Galatasaray 8869 16 Tottenham Hotspur 8681 17 Aston Villa 8568 18 Benfica 8532 19 Man City 8504 20 Steaua 8310 21 Portsmouth 7797 22 Stuttgart 7587 23 Sevilla 6948 24 Roma 6789 25 Valencia 6423 26 Schalke 6354 27 Celtic 6347 28 Atletico Madrid 6276 29 Villareal 5813 30 CSKA Moscow 5798 31 Nuremberg 5784 32 Marseille 5630 33 Lokomotiv Moscow 5516 34 Getafe 5445 35 Beitar Jerusalem 5430 36 Fenerbache 5290 37 Spartak Moscow 5244 38 Betis 5236 39 Zenit St. Petersburg 5136 40 Rangers 4917 41 Porto 4913 42 Leverkusen 4734 43 Udinese 4711 44 Frankfurt 4624 45 Feyenoord 4492 46 Dinamo Bucharest 4328 47 Libertad 4285 48 Deportivo 4275 49 Sporting 4250 50 Newcastle 4203 Hardly surprising that we are behind the likes of Villa and Portsmouth, in fact, 50 seem a bit high for us. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Can't deny that position of teams like Everton and Steau Bucharest don't make this a perfect league table, but the best squads have a good core of international players, surrounded by a bunch of veterans, fringe players and youngsters. We certainly don't have that core, and compared to us being the 13th richest club in the world (Forbes) this is nowhere near acceptable, as we don't have the players that match our riches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 How much of each team's squad did you include in your calculations? 16 players? 25? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 How much of each team's squad did you include in your calculations? 16 players? 25? Varied slightly from club to club depending on injuries/provisional squads/players getting rested. No less than 22, no more than 28. Generally the larger nations had the slightly larger squads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Swift Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Isn't that biased towards the bigger clubs? Just checking from soccerbase but Man Utd had only 21 players who play a 'significant' (my definition) amount of games last season. Generally, your method is sound. There are a few unavoidable flaws, but the rankings do make intuitive sense. It'd be better if you could give each player in the national squad points to a 'degree' i.e. if they started 80%+ of games in the past 2 years, you give them the full points total, 60-80%, you downgrade the points a bit etc. In this way you'll be able to incorporate how 'important' each player is for their national team and that should be a good way of measuring their 'quality'. If you know what I mean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keefaz Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Jesus Christ, man, James! What a load of shit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ericz Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 This is certainly a good post. Nothing speaks better than statistics. To branch off James' wonderful data and narrow it down to English clubs only: 1 Chelsea 21277 6 Man Utd 14125 8 Liverpool 13677 9 Arsenal 13552 16 Tottenham Hotspur 8681 17 Aston Villa 8568 19 Man City 8504 21 Portsmouth 7797 50 Newcastle 4203 It looks like we have quite a bit to do there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 It'd be better if you could give each player in the national squad points to a 'degree' i.e. if they started 80%+ of games in the past 2 years, you give them the full points total, 60-80%, you downgrade the points a bit etc. In this way you'll be able to incorporate how 'important' each player is for their national team and that should be a good way of measuring their 'quality'. If you know what I mean. Easier said than done. Even is Taylor27 did it many will still complain !! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delima Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Surprised to see Panathanaikos & Galatasaray up near the top. Without digging out the info myself, I struggle to think of famous internationals they have. Unless they have their suads packed with Greek or Turkish internationals - whch is logical Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edd Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Pretty interesting. Could you post up how many 'points' we have? And who are the teams ahead of us? 1 Chelsea 21277 2 Real Madrid 19930 3 Barcelona 19425 4 AC Milan 16301 5 Inter Milan 16090 6 Man Utd 14125 7 Bayern Munich 14020 8 Liverpool 13677 9 Arsenal 13552 10 Lyon 12768 11 Werder Bremen 10481 12 HSV 10316 13 Juventus 9086 14 Panathanaikos 9017 15 Galatasaray 8869 16 Tottenham Hotspur 8681 17 Aston Villa 8568 18 Benfica 8532 19 Man City 8504 20 Steaua 8310 21 Portsmouth 7797 22 Stuttgart 7587 23 Sevilla 6948 24 Roma 6789 25 Valencia 6423 26 Schalke 6354 27 Celtic 6347 28 Atletico Madrid 6276 29 Villareal 5813 30 CSKA Moscow 5798 31 Nuremberg 5784 32 Marseille 5630 33 Lokomotiv Moscow 5516 34 Getafe 5445 35 Beitar Jerusalem 5430 36 Fenerbache 5290 37 Spartak Moscow 5244 38 Betis 5236 39 Zenit St. Petersburg 5136 40 Rangers 4917 41 Porto 4913 42 Leverkusen 4734 43 Udinese 4711 44 Frankfurt 4624 45 Feyenoord 4492 46 Dinamo Bucharest 4328 47 Libertad 4285 48 Deportivo 4275 49 Sporting 4250 50 Newcastle 4203 How the hell did your work out those points? Looking at the Arsenal team there are 5 players whowould be lucky to score a point under you criteria (assuming I've understood it correctly). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Silva Brazil 1518 Fabregas Spain 1323 Lehmann Germany 1264 Rosicky Czech Republic 1244 Gallas France 1205 van Persie Holland 1123 Walcott England 1098 Eduardo Croatia 1044 Song Cameroon 1005 Vela Mexico 988 Toure Ivory Coast 870 Eboue Ivory Coast 870 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 Surprised to see Panathanaikos & Galatasaray up near the top. Without digging out the info myself, I struggle to think of famous internationals they have. Unless they have their suads packed with Greek or Turkish internationals - whch is logical Yeah, a few teams like those two and Steau and Villa to a lesser extent seem to sweep up a lot of local internationals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Venkman Posted May 31, 2008 Share Posted May 31, 2008 We are now longer a world famous club, if at all, we are well known for having a poor team and having crap seasons for the past few years. haha, you're my favourite Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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