Were we unstable?

[NE5]

Personally, I see it as 15 years, but as a lot of people seem to split the era of the Halls and Shepherd into 2 parts - which I don't because nothing really changed other than the figurehead and spokesperson of the group

 

plc. Huge, massive change. You were asleep and didn't notice?

 

It's pretty obvious that SJH was far better at PR than Shepherd, but personally, I don't give a monkeys for PR. The only PR that concerns me is winning

 

Shepherd wasn't much good at that either.

 

you should realise that nobody appoints the "right" manager all the time

 

Aye, but one successful appointment out of five is a piss-poor record. Stop making flimsy excuses and face the fact, for once.

 

see my sig.

 

You must have been dreaming about this Stephen Spence fella. You must have also been dreaming when you thought that Rob Lee was keith Gillespie  mackems.gif and you must have been dreaming when you said that Souness would turn into the new Alex Ferguson just for getting rid of the "cancer" like he did at Manu  mackems.gif

 

Pleased you think appointing a manager who had won 4 league titles with 2 different clubs, 2 FA Cups and 3 manager of the year awards was a bad appointment. Better than Mourhinho and at least on a par with Wenger.

 

Night Ozzie. You don't improve, there's a few facts for you to dream about.

 

 

[Baggio]

Are you prepared to see the club lose top players, and lose out to top players, by capping wages in future ? Do you seriously think that a club like us with the support we have should be operating at the lower levels of the likes of Portsmouth and blackburn ?

 

How does bringing in a sensible wage structure have us operating at the levels of Blackburn and Portsmouth?

 

As far as I'm aware we've offered Owen a contract worth £80,000 per week, how many clubs outside the top 4 do you think have a player on their books earning that much?

 

where has Modric gone ?

 

Owen will leave if his wages are cut

 

 

 

What's Modric got to do with it?

 

[OzzieMandias]

Personally, I see it as 15 years, but as a lot of people seem to split the era of the Halls and Shepherd into 2 parts - which I don't because nothing really changed other than the figurehead and spokesperson of the group

 

plc. Huge, massive change. You were asleep and didn't notice?

 

It's pretty obvious that SJH was far better at PR than Shepherd, but personally, I don't give a monkeys for PR. The only PR that concerns me is winning

 

Shepherd wasn't much good at that either.

 

you should realise that nobody appoints the "right" manager all the time

 

Aye, but one successful appointment out of five is a piss-poor record. Stop making flimsy excuses and face the fact, for once.

 

see my sig.

 

You must have been dreaming about this Stephen Spence fella. You must have also been dreaming when you thought that Rob Lee was keith Gillespie  mackems.gif and you must have been dreaming when you said that Souness would turn into the new Alex Ferguson just for getting rid of the "cancer" like he did at Manu  mackems.gif

 

Pleased you think appointing a manager who had won 4 league titles with 2 different clubs, 2 FA Cups and 3 manager of the year awards was a bad appointment. Better than Mourhinho and at least on a par with Wenger.

 

Night Ozzie. You don't improve, there's a few facts for you to dream about.

 

 

 

White flag from NE5.

[NE5]

Personally, I see it as 15 years, but as a lot of people seem to split the era of the Halls and Shepherd into 2 parts - which I don't because nothing really changed other than the figurehead and spokesperson of the group

 

plc. Huge, massive change. You were asleep and didn't notice?

 

It's pretty obvious that SJH was far better at PR than Shepherd, but personally, I don't give a monkeys for PR. The only PR that concerns me is winning

 

Shepherd wasn't much good at that either.

 

you should realise that nobody appoints the "right" manager all the time

 

Aye, but one successful appointment out of five is a piss-poor record. Stop making flimsy excuses and face the fact, for once.

 

see my sig.

 

You must have been dreaming about this Stephen Spence fella. You must have also been dreaming when you thought that Rob Lee was keith Gillespie  mackems.gif and you must have been dreaming when you said that Souness would turn into the new Alex Ferguson just for getting rid of the "cancer" like he did at Manu  mackems.gif

 

Pleased you think appointing a manager who had won 4 league titles with 2 different clubs, 2 FA Cups and 3 manager of the year awards was a bad appointment. Better than Mourhinho and at least on a par with Wenger.

 

Night Ozzie. You don't improve, there's a few facts for you to dream about.

 

 

 

White flag from NE5.

 

[Baggio]

I think it's safe to say NE5 is more unstable than the club has ever been tbh.

[mrmojorisin75]

pretty much the response i expected NE5...but your response would have been a little different i'd guess if abramovic HADN'T come along i'd guess but we'll never know

 

suppose i could ask the question of leeds eh?  they backed their manager to the detriment of the club, do you think you'd hear leeds fans complaining about that period?  they'd more than likely tell you it was great at the time but seeing as it totally f***ed the club they'd maybe rather not have had that champions league semi final to show for it

 

one thing i find amusing is your ridiculing someone in another thread about "hindsight signings" yet you're saying in this post that chelsea fans wouldn't be complaining 'cause they had some good times and won some cups in the past when their club was on the brink of financial collapse...it's only hindsight that makes that period good for the club, had things gone the other way it might very well have been seen as the creating darkest in their history

 

finally, and this is for UV too, abramovic bought chelski after spurs told him to beat it so they weren't as attractive as all that were they?  he probably knew they were there for the taking due to their financial situation and they were in london with decent facilities...if it was an attractive, successful side he wanted why not buy arsenal or man utd?  same goes for ashley really...our share price was low due to the recent poor results and perceived (put that in for you) bad financial state of the club and he saw an opportunity to buy a great club for a reasonable amount of money, ostensibly; he was then bitten in the arse by the debt

 

anyway seems like i'm trying to turn this into an old board argument, and i'm not, honestly

 

another question though; are everton giving it a go at the moment?  'cause i agree it's better to try than not to try but what do you consider "having a stab"?  seems to me they're trying to break into the top four by buying and developing players, and you can't say they're not paying big fees either really can you?  so would you be happy with an everton-esque approach?  or for us to have a stab do we have to spend beyond our means?  or ask yourself the same question about aston villa maybe?

 

i'm guessing i already know the answer to that one too

 

quick reply, but if we had won just one Cup Final, by virtue of playing the smoggies instead of the premiership champions, would your perspective of the Halls and Shepherd be different ?

 

And yet, the Champions League is supposed to be the be all and end all these days ?

 

Leeds fans were in their element during those European Cup semi final days etc, they would hardly have been anything else. The ones I know were anyway. They also condemn Ridsdale for BORROWING money to buy too many players. They know they aren't big enough for that, they certainly know they don't have the support of Newcastle.

 

As for Everton, its taken them 6 years (SIX) to get to 5th in the league, at least 4 of those were watching Allardyce type stuff, and we already know the answer to the question would we really want to watch that for 4 years.

 

And they aren't challenging their neighbours, nothing like it, and when they upgrade their wooden delapitated stadium, they will be in debt   Maybe it won't stop them from winning a cup or two though, just like the current top 4 clubs though

 

Anyway mate, your're cherry picking, the vast majority of clubs aren't successful because they don't spend money, not vice versa, I held up the mackems as an example. They are a big club too you know ?

 

 

 

I'M cherry picking, ME??  masterful, masterful mate

 

it's taken liverpool over a decade of big spending to scrape 4th every year mate, and everton making 5th in SIX years (i'll ignore that 4th place they had just in homage to you) is considered bad by you?  don't bother wheeling out the cup wins 'cause i know already

 

amazing...i was always under the impression you had unrealistic ambitions for the club and you've just confirmed them, just how much bigger than leeds do you actually think we are?  if you think under the old board or new NUFC getting back to anywhere near the top 4-5  by spending big alone then you are severely deluded, it's unsustainable for a club our size in the current circumstances of the 2008 EPL

 

we had 80m of debt did we not?  and we'd have needed to increase that debt significantly to even come close to the top five, but yeah EVERTON are the mugs

 

 

err.......Liverpool have been winning trophies since 1958, when Shankly took over as manager. During that time, they have ALWAYS set high standards of footballer, and paid the money when they wanted the absolute top player.

 

As UV has also said, loads of clubs are run like Everton, and get precisely nowhere, so you are cherry picking.

 

Would you really swap our last decade - and a further 5 if you like - with Evertons ?

 

I think we are a canny bit bigger than Leeds. We always were, until Don Revie took them over at the same time as McKeag, Westwood etc ran us into the ground for 40 years taking us in the opposite direction.

 

Also - they were massively in debt and that is WITHOUT doing anything to their council owned crap stadium.

 

Do you think that these clubs are going to be able to carry on for decades with the stadiums and avoid going into this crippling debt that you appear to think prevents clubs from winning trophies - I've quoted the top 4 already as role models, I have no idea why you want to choose mediocre teams as role models instead.

 

THAT is what I call unrealistic ambitions and belief in your club.

 

Makes me wonder how many people on here really understand what mediocrity is all about, my guess is not too many.

 

By the way, please point out where I have EVER said that ANY of the top clubs - ie meaning us as in following the way they do it - have done what they have done "by spending big alone"

 

 

 

fair enough on the spending big alone thing, they don't just do that, but then i don't recall saying YOU said it either, perhaps implied it was your primary or maybe ONLY judgement on how well a football club is run

 

just out of interest are you not cherry picking your favourite decade of the clubs history and trotting it out to suit you in every situation?  you're the guy who always refers to a decade so when did that start?  92?  94? 96?  whenever you're starting it add ten then start the argument with the new decade; so 2002, 2004, 2006 onwards?  all ratshit basically in the grand scheme of things when you start that "decade"

 

would you swap our last decade with evertons in the 1980's?  such a question is just as relevant and meaningless  as when you reference liverpool circa 1958 and leeds under revie while at the same time talking about our last decade?  laughable...

 

i'll combine both your replies into one with the next bit; don't try and tell me what i advocate, i'll say it myself when i have an opinion...i raised this whole point about the balance between succeeding and financial sense/suicide (call it what you will) - i don't deal in absolutes, idiots do that, so i can see the virtue of running a club the way everton do, the way blackburn do; it doesn't mean i automatically think we should copy everything they do

 

as i've told you in the past i think there's a certain strength to your argument about building on the potential of the club; to me we had 2 times to do that, under keegan mk1 and robson and we basically f***ed them both up with the best of intentions...you might think we're as big you do but cementing our place on either of those occaisions would have sealed it - as it is in everywhere else but your mind we're seen as a bit of a failure all round, a bit of a joke to many

 

just so we're clear this is what i think - we had a go, a good go at success and i applaud shepherd/hall or whoever you want to name for it, i had some of my best footballing moments during the period and i doubt i'd swap them for anything...i remember walking out of wembley after arsenal turned us over and thinking how glorious we were in failure and how numb they were in victory, i'm not sure i'd swap places with them then to be honest 'cause being us is something they'll never understand

 

THAT SAID there surely has to come a point where it became clear that the money we spent in this over a decade had caught up to us and realism needed to kick in, if you can't see that i pity you, but 80m in debt with an out of control wage bill and a team utterly unable to get out of the bottom half isn't gonna fix itself overnight is it? if i hold everton up as an example of anything it's of a club who were riddled in debt and stuck to a plan that's got them from the brink of relegation to europe in a few years, surely you can see that this is our only hope short term?  we need to get to a point where have a decent balanced squad and can spend on the big players to make our claim AGAIN...if we go out now and spend 50m on 3 magnificent players or whatever i simply think we'll end up back where we were 'cause the squad is imbalanced and weak

 

it's what needed to happen under bobby - he spent 3 (?) seasons balancing the books and building a nice tidy squad then hit us with the summer of robert and bellamy and we took off again and the spending started, THIS is all i'm advocating

 

I'm not cherrry picking anything. My point is that to succeed and sustain success, you MUST have players the top 4 want themselves, and this means buying players for the top fees, or they will ( key point ).  As I keep saying, they haven't spent the money themselves if they didnt' think it was necessary. As a slight aside, the best team we have had at Newcastle in the last 50 years was also done by spending like the other big boys. If nothing else in what is being said here can be taken on board by you - perhaps because you are younger - then surely you can grasp this particular truth ?

 

You will not challenge these teams by taking the approach the also rans take ie leaving the big players to someone else. With a good manager it will take you so far and thats all.

 

A club with the 3rd biggest crowd in the UK ? Well there is something wrong if they can't compete with the other big boys. I know the reason why you and others reject this, its just because you feel the need to reject everything the fat b****** did, just because he's the fat b******. Thats true and you know it.

 

Which brings me onto your point about the last 10 or 15 years. Personally, I see it as 15 years, but as a lot of people seem to split the era of the Halls and Shepherd into 2 parts - which I don't because nothing really changed other than the figurehead and spokesperson of the group - I do this just to humour them and point out that the past decade wasn't really so bad as they make out.

 

It's pretty obvious that SJH was far better at PR than Shepherd, but personally, I don't give a monkeys for PR. The only PR that concerns me is winning, and 52000 fans every home game - over half of which weren't interested in the club for years previously - must have been attracted by something.

 

Basically, if you are saying the expansion of the stadium was a bad move, then you are massively wrong. There is just no way that anybody can say that this was not a long awaited and excellent move by the club. Add to that the new training academey, facilities etc.

 

I would have certainly swapped our decade in the 1960's, 70's and 80's with Everton, I'd have done that before you could say Gordon Lee, but no way would i have swapped the last 15 years. Not a chance.

 

I don't disagree that we messed Keegan up the first time, but its rather strange that nobody mentions this, this is probably because it was the major shareholders decision to take the club onto the stock exchange though and unfortunately, as with Ashley, it seems some people are beyond criticism whereas others are damned whatever they do.

 

I'm not denying that things went wrong with the appointment of Souness, and never have. Others on here supported him until the end though so there is no point in telling me that the club spent money on s*** players and undersold good players, because I was one who said it was going to happen.

 

When you talk about realism, you should realise that nobody appoints the "right" manager all the time, thats why the top 4 clubs haven't always been the top 4 and they won't remain so either.  That is realistic. You have to accept that everybody makes mistakes. When it comes down to it in the end though, you are better off with an ambitous board that will reach out rather than one playing the prudency game and operating a "sell to buy" policy.

 

Are you prepared to see the club lose top players, and lose out to top players, by capping wages in future ? Do you seriously think that a club like us with the support we have should be operating at the lower levels of the likes of Portsmouth and blackburn ?

 

 

you're not reading what i've posted, you're putting words in my mouth to suit yourself so there's little point in continuing

 

 

[OzzieMandias]

pretty much the response i expected NE5...but your response would have been a little different i'd guess if abramovic HADN'T come along i'd guess but we'll never know

 

suppose i could ask the question of leeds eh?  they backed their manager to the detriment of the club, do you think you'd hear leeds fans complaining about that period?  they'd more than likely tell you it was great at the time but seeing as it totally f***ed the club they'd maybe rather not have had that champions league semi final to show for it

 

one thing i find amusing is your ridiculing someone in another thread about "hindsight signings" yet you're saying in this post that chelsea fans wouldn't be complaining 'cause they had some good times and won some cups in the past when their club was on the brink of financial collapse...it's only hindsight that makes that period good for the club, had things gone the other way it might very well have been seen as the creating darkest in their history

 

finally, and this is for UV too, abramovic bought chelski after spurs told him to beat it so they weren't as attractive as all that were they?  he probably knew they were there for the taking due to their financial situation and they were in london with decent facilities...if it was an attractive, successful side he wanted why not buy arsenal or man utd?  same goes for ashley really...our share price was low due to the recent poor results and perceived (put that in for you) bad financial state of the club and he saw an opportunity to buy a great club for a reasonable amount of money, ostensibly; he was then bitten in the arse by the debt

 

anyway seems like i'm trying to turn this into an old board argument, and i'm not, honestly

 

another question though; are everton giving it a go at the moment?  'cause i agree it's better to try than not to try but what do you consider "having a stab"?  seems to me they're trying to break into the top four by buying and developing players, and you can't say they're not paying big fees either really can you?  so would you be happy with an everton-esque approach?  or for us to have a stab do we have to spend beyond our means?  or ask yourself the same question about aston villa maybe?

 

i'm guessing i already know the answer to that one too

 

quick reply, but if we had won just one Cup Final, by virtue of playing the smoggies instead of the premiership champions, would your perspective of the Halls and Shepherd be different ?

 

And yet, the Champions League is supposed to be the be all and end all these days ?

 

Leeds fans were in their element during those European Cup semi final days etc, they would hardly have been anything else. The ones I know were anyway. They also condemn Ridsdale for BORROWING money to buy too many players. They know they aren't big enough for that, they certainly know they don't have the support of Newcastle.

 

As for Everton, its taken them 6 years (SIX) to get to 5th in the league, at least 4 of those were watching Allardyce type stuff, and we already know the answer to the question would we really want to watch that for 4 years.

 

And they aren't challenging their neighbours, nothing like it, and when they upgrade their wooden delapitated stadium, they will be in debt   Maybe it won't stop them from winning a cup or two though, just like the current top 4 clubs though

 

Anyway mate, your're cherry picking, the vast majority of clubs aren't successful because they don't spend money, not vice versa, I held up the mackems as an example. They are a big club too you know ?

 

 

 

I'M cherry picking, ME??  masterful, masterful mate

 

it's taken liverpool over a decade of big spending to scrape 4th every year mate, and everton making 5th in SIX years (i'll ignore that 4th place they had just in homage to you) is considered bad by you?  don't bother wheeling out the cup wins 'cause i know already

 

amazing...i was always under the impression you had unrealistic ambitions for the club and you've just confirmed them, just how much bigger than leeds do you actually think we are?  if you think under the old board or new NUFC getting back to anywhere near the top 4-5  by spending big alone then you are severely deluded, it's unsustainable for a club our size in the current circumstances of the 2008 EPL

 

we had 80m of debt did we not?  and we'd have needed to increase that debt significantly to even come close to the top five, but yeah EVERTON are the mugs

 

 

err.......Liverpool have been winning trophies since 1958, when Shankly took over as manager. During that time, they have ALWAYS set high standards of footballer, and paid the money when they wanted the absolute top player.

 

As UV has also said, loads of clubs are run like Everton, and get precisely nowhere, so you are cherry picking.

 

Would you really swap our last decade - and a further 5 if you like - with Evertons ?

 

I think we are a canny bit bigger than Leeds. We always were, until Don Revie took them over at the same time as McKeag, Westwood etc ran us into the ground for 40 years taking us in the opposite direction.

 

Also - they were massively in debt and that is WITHOUT doing anything to their council owned crap stadium.

 

Do you think that these clubs are going to be able to carry on for decades with the stadiums and avoid going into this crippling debt that you appear to think prevents clubs from winning trophies - I've quoted the top 4 already as role models, I have no idea why you want to choose mediocre teams as role models instead.

 

THAT is what I call unrealistic ambitions and belief in your club.

 

Makes me wonder how many people on here really understand what mediocrity is all about, my guess is not too many.

 

By the way, please point out where I have EVER said that ANY of the top clubs - ie meaning us as in following the way they do it - have done what they have done "by spending big alone"

 

 

 

fair enough on the spending big alone thing, they don't just do that, but then i don't recall saying YOU said it either, perhaps implied it was your primary or maybe ONLY judgement on how well a football club is run

 

just out of interest are you not cherry picking your favourite decade of the clubs history and trotting it out to suit you in every situation?  you're the guy who always refers to a decade so when did that start?  92?  94? 96?  whenever you're starting it add ten then start the argument with the new decade; so 2002, 2004, 2006 onwards?  all ratshit basically in the grand scheme of things when you start that "decade"

 

would you swap our last decade with evertons in the 1980's?  such a question is just as relevant and meaningless  as when you reference liverpool circa 1958 and leeds under revie while at the same time talking about our last decade?  laughable...

 

i'll combine both your replies into one with the next bit; don't try and tell me what i advocate, i'll say it myself when i have an opinion...i raised this whole point about the balance between succeeding and financial sense/suicide (call it what you will) - i don't deal in absolutes, idiots do that, so i can see the virtue of running a club the way everton do, the way blackburn do; it doesn't mean i automatically think we should copy everything they do

 

as i've told you in the past i think there's a certain strength to your argument about building on the potential of the club; to me we had 2 times to do that, under keegan mk1 and robson and we basically f***ed them both up with the best of intentions...you might think we're as big you do but cementing our place on either of those occaisions would have sealed it - as it is in everywhere else but your mind we're seen as a bit of a failure all round, a bit of a joke to many

 

just so we're clear this is what i think - we had a go, a good go at success and i applaud shepherd/hall or whoever you want to name for it, i had some of my best footballing moments during the period and i doubt i'd swap them for anything...i remember walking out of wembley after arsenal turned us over and thinking how glorious we were in failure and how numb they were in victory, i'm not sure i'd swap places with them then to be honest 'cause being us is something they'll never understand

 

THAT SAID there surely has to come a point where it became clear that the money we spent in this over a decade had caught up to us and realism needed to kick in, if you can't see that i pity you, but 80m in debt with an out of control wage bill and a team utterly unable to get out of the bottom half isn't gonna fix itself overnight is it? if i hold everton up as an example of anything it's of a club who were riddled in debt and stuck to a plan that's got them from the brink of relegation to europe in a few years, surely you can see that this is our only hope short term?  we need to get to a point where have a decent balanced squad and can spend on the big players to make our claim AGAIN...if we go out now and spend 50m on 3 magnificent players or whatever i simply think we'll end up back where we were 'cause the squad is imbalanced and weak

 

it's what needed to happen under bobby - he spent 3 (?) seasons balancing the books and building a nice tidy squad then hit us with the summer of robert and bellamy and we took off again and the spending started, THIS is all i'm advocating

 

I'm not cherrry picking anything. My point is that to succeed and sustain success, you MUST have players the top 4 want themselves, and this means buying players for the top fees, or they will ( key point ).  As I keep saying, they haven't spent the money themselves if they didnt' think it was necessary. As a slight aside, the best team we have had at Newcastle in the last 50 years was also done by spending like the other big boys. If nothing else in what is being said here can be taken on board by you - perhaps because you are younger - then surely you can grasp this particular truth ?

 

You will not challenge these teams by taking the approach the also rans take ie leaving the big players to someone else. With a good manager it will take you so far and thats all.

 

A club with the 3rd biggest crowd in the UK ? Well there is something wrong if they can't compete with the other big boys. I know the reason why you and others reject this, its just because you feel the need to reject everything the fat b****** did, just because he's the fat b******. Thats true and you know it.

 

Which brings me onto your point about the last 10 or 15 years. Personally, I see it as 15 years, but as a lot of people seem to split the era of the Halls and Shepherd into 2 parts - which I don't because nothing really changed other than the figurehead and spokesperson of the group - I do this just to humour them and point out that the past decade wasn't really so bad as they make out.

 

It's pretty obvious that SJH was far better at PR than Shepherd, but personally, I don't give a monkeys for PR. The only PR that concerns me is winning, and 52000 fans every home game - over half of which weren't interested in the club for years previously - must have been attracted by something.

 

Basically, if you are saying the expansion of the stadium was a bad move, then you are massively wrong. There is just no way that anybody can say that this was not a long awaited and excellent move by the club. Add to that the new training academey, facilities etc.

 

I would have certainly swapped our decade in the 1960's, 70's and 80's with Everton, I'd have done that before you could say Gordon Lee, but no way would i have swapped the last 15 years. Not a chance.

 

I don't disagree that we messed Keegan up the first time, but its rather strange that nobody mentions this, this is probably because it was the major shareholders decision to take the club onto the stock exchange though and unfortunately, as with Ashley, it seems some people are beyond criticism whereas others are damned whatever they do.

 

I'm not denying that things went wrong with the appointment of Souness, and never have. Others on here supported him until the end though so there is no point in telling me that the club spent money on s*** players and undersold good players, because I was one who said it was going to happen.

 

When you talk about realism, you should realise that nobody appoints the "right" manager all the time, thats why the top 4 clubs haven't always been the top 4 and they won't remain so either.  That is realistic. You have to accept that everybody makes mistakes. When it comes down to it in the end though, you are better off with an ambitous board that will reach out rather than one playing the prudency game and operating a "sell to buy" policy.

 

Are you prepared to see the club lose top players, and lose out to top players, by capping wages in future ? Do you seriously think that a club like us with the support we have should be operating at the lower levels of the likes of Portsmouth and blackburn ?

 

 

you're not reading what i've posted, you're putting words in my mouth to suit yourself so there's little point in continuing

 

 

 

NE5? Outrageous accusation!

[NE5]

pretty much the response i expected NE5...but your response would have been a little different i'd guess if abramovic HADN'T come along i'd guess but we'll never know

 

suppose i could ask the question of leeds eh?  they backed their manager to the detriment of the club, do you think you'd hear leeds fans complaining about that period?  they'd more than likely tell you it was great at the time but seeing as it totally f***ed the club they'd maybe rather not have had that champions league semi final to show for it

 

one thing i find amusing is your ridiculing someone in another thread about "hindsight signings" yet you're saying in this post that chelsea fans wouldn't be complaining 'cause they had some good times and won some cups in the past when their club was on the brink of financial collapse...it's only hindsight that makes that period good for the club, had things gone the other way it might very well have been seen as the creating darkest in their history

 

finally, and this is for UV too, abramovic bought chelski after spurs told him to beat it so they weren't as attractive as all that were they?  he probably knew they were there for the taking due to their financial situation and they were in london with decent facilities...if it was an attractive, successful side he wanted why not buy arsenal or man utd?  same goes for ashley really...our share price was low due to the recent poor results and perceived (put that in for you) bad financial state of the club and he saw an opportunity to buy a great club for a reasonable amount of money, ostensibly; he was then bitten in the arse by the debt

 

anyway seems like i'm trying to turn this into an old board argument, and i'm not, honestly

 

another question though; are everton giving it a go at the moment?  'cause i agree it's better to try than not to try but what do you consider "having a stab"?  seems to me they're trying to break into the top four by buying and developing players, and you can't say they're not paying big fees either really can you?  so would you be happy with an everton-esque approach?  or for us to have a stab do we have to spend beyond our means?  or ask yourself the same question about aston villa maybe?

 

i'm guessing i already know the answer to that one too

 

quick reply, but if we had won just one Cup Final, by virtue of playing the smoggies instead of the premiership champions, would your perspective of the Halls and Shepherd be different ?

 

And yet, the Champions League is supposed to be the be all and end all these days ?

 

Leeds fans were in their element during those European Cup semi final days etc, they would hardly have been anything else. The ones I know were anyway. They also condemn Ridsdale for BORROWING money to buy too many players. They know they aren't big enough for that, they certainly know they don't have the support of Newcastle.

 

As for Everton, its taken them 6 years (SIX) to get to 5th in the league, at least 4 of those were watching Allardyce type stuff, and we already know the answer to the question would we really want to watch that for 4 years.

 

And they aren't challenging their neighbours, nothing like it, and when they upgrade their wooden delapitated stadium, they will be in debt   Maybe it won't stop them from winning a cup or two though, just like the current top 4 clubs though

 

Anyway mate, your're cherry picking, the vast majority of clubs aren't successful because they don't spend money, not vice versa, I held up the mackems as an example. They are a big club too you know ?

 

 

 

I'M cherry picking, ME??  masterful, masterful mate

 

it's taken liverpool over a decade of big spending to scrape 4th every year mate, and everton making 5th in SIX years (i'll ignore that 4th place they had just in homage to you) is considered bad by you?  don't bother wheeling out the cup wins 'cause i know already

 

amazing...i was always under the impression you had unrealistic ambitions for the club and you've just confirmed them, just how much bigger than leeds do you actually think we are?  if you think under the old board or new NUFC getting back to anywhere near the top 4-5  by spending big alone then you are severely deluded, it's unsustainable for a club our size in the current circumstances of the 2008 EPL

 

we had 80m of debt did we not?  and we'd have needed to increase that debt significantly to even come close to the top five, but yeah EVERTON are the mugs

 

 

err.......Liverpool have been winning trophies since 1958, when Shankly took over as manager. During that time, they have ALWAYS set high standards of footballer, and paid the money when they wanted the absolute top player.

 

As UV has also said, loads of clubs are run like Everton, and get precisely nowhere, so you are cherry picking.

 

Would you really swap our last decade - and a further 5 if you like - with Evertons ?

 

I think we are a canny bit bigger than Leeds. We always were, until Don Revie took them over at the same time as McKeag, Westwood etc ran us into the ground for 40 years taking us in the opposite direction.

 

Also - they were massively in debt and that is WITHOUT doing anything to their council owned crap stadium.

 

Do you think that these clubs are going to be able to carry on for decades with the stadiums and avoid going into this crippling debt that you appear to think prevents clubs from winning trophies - I've quoted the top 4 already as role models, I have no idea why you want to choose mediocre teams as role models instead.

 

THAT is what I call unrealistic ambitions and belief in your club.

 

Makes me wonder how many people on here really understand what mediocrity is all about, my guess is not too many.

 

By the way, please point out where I have EVER said that ANY of the top clubs - ie meaning us as in following the way they do it - have done what they have done "by spending big alone"

 

 

 

fair enough on the spending big alone thing, they don't just do that, but then i don't recall saying YOU said it either, perhaps implied it was your primary or maybe ONLY judgement on how well a football club is run

 

just out of interest are you not cherry picking your favourite decade of the clubs history and trotting it out to suit you in every situation?  you're the guy who always refers to a decade so when did that start?  92?  94? 96?  whenever you're starting it add ten then start the argument with the new decade; so 2002, 2004, 2006 onwards?  all ratshit basically in the grand scheme of things when you start that "decade"

 

would you swap our last decade with evertons in the 1980's?  such a question is just as relevant and meaningless  as when you reference liverpool circa 1958 and leeds under revie while at the same time talking about our last decade?  laughable...

 

i'll combine both your replies into one with the next bit; don't try and tell me what i advocate, i'll say it myself when i have an opinion...i raised this whole point about the balance between succeeding and financial sense/suicide (call it what you will) - i don't deal in absolutes, idiots do that, so i can see the virtue of running a club the way everton do, the way blackburn do; it doesn't mean i automatically think we should copy everything they do

 

as i've told you in the past i think there's a certain strength to your argument about building on the potential of the club; to me we had 2 times to do that, under keegan mk1 and robson and we basically f***ed them both up with the best of intentions...you might think we're as big you do but cementing our place on either of those occaisions would have sealed it - as it is in everywhere else but your mind we're seen as a bit of a failure all round, a bit of a joke to many

 

just so we're clear this is what i think - we had a go, a good go at success and i applaud shepherd/hall or whoever you want to name for it, i had some of my best footballing moments during the period and i doubt i'd swap them for anything...i remember walking out of wembley after arsenal turned us over and thinking how glorious we were in failure and how numb they were in victory, i'm not sure i'd swap places with them then to be honest 'cause being us is something they'll never understand

 

THAT SAID there surely has to come a point where it became clear that the money we spent in this over a decade had caught up to us and realism needed to kick in, if you can't see that i pity you, but 80m in debt with an out of control wage bill and a team utterly unable to get out of the bottom half isn't gonna fix itself overnight is it? if i hold everton up as an example of anything it's of a club who were riddled in debt and stuck to a plan that's got them from the brink of relegation to europe in a few years, surely you can see that this is our only hope short term?  we need to get to a point where have a decent balanced squad and can spend on the big players to make our claim AGAIN...if we go out now and spend 50m on 3 magnificent players or whatever i simply think we'll end up back where we were 'cause the squad is imbalanced and weak

 

it's what needed to happen under bobby - he spent 3 (?) seasons balancing the books and building a nice tidy squad then hit us with the summer of robert and bellamy and we took off again and the spending started, THIS is all i'm advocating

 

I'm not cherrry picking anything. My point is that to succeed and sustain success, you MUST have players the top 4 want themselves, and this means buying players for the top fees, or they will ( key point ).  As I keep saying, they haven't spent the money themselves if they didnt' think it was necessary. As a slight aside, the best team we have had at Newcastle in the last 50 years was also done by spending like the other big boys. If nothing else in what is being said here can be taken on board by you - perhaps because you are younger - then surely you can grasp this particular truth ?

 

You will not challenge these teams by taking the approach the also rans take ie leaving the big players to someone else. With a good manager it will take you so far and thats all.

 

A club with the 3rd biggest crowd in the UK ? Well there is something wrong if they can't compete with the other big boys. I know the reason why you and others reject this, its just because you feel the need to reject everything the fat b****** did, just because he's the fat b******. Thats true and you know it.

 

Which brings me onto your point about the last 10 or 15 years. Personally, I see it as 15 years, but as a lot of people seem to split the era of the Halls and Shepherd into 2 parts - which I don't because nothing really changed other than the figurehead and spokesperson of the group - I do this just to humour them and point out that the past decade wasn't really so bad as they make out.

 

It's pretty obvious that SJH was far better at PR than Shepherd, but personally, I don't give a monkeys for PR. The only PR that concerns me is winning, and 52000 fans every home game - over half of which weren't interested in the club for years previously - must have been attracted by something.

 

Basically, if you are saying the expansion of the stadium was a bad move, then you are massively wrong. There is just no way that anybody can say that this was not a long awaited and excellent move by the club. Add to that the new training academey, facilities etc.

 

I would have certainly swapped our decade in the 1960's, 70's and 80's with Everton, I'd have done that before you could say Gordon Lee, but no way would i have swapped the last 15 years. Not a chance.

 

I don't disagree that we messed Keegan up the first time, but its rather strange that nobody mentions this, this is probably because it was the major shareholders decision to take the club onto the stock exchange though and unfortunately, as with Ashley, it seems some people are beyond criticism whereas others are damned whatever they do.

 

I'm not denying that things went wrong with the appointment of Souness, and never have. Others on here supported him until the end though so there is no point in telling me that the club spent money on s*** players and undersold good players, because I was one who said it was going to happen.

 

When you talk about realism, you should realise that nobody appoints the "right" manager all the time, thats why the top 4 clubs haven't always been the top 4 and they won't remain so either.  That is realistic. You have to accept that everybody makes mistakes. When it comes down to it in the end though, you are better off with an ambitous board that will reach out rather than one playing the prudency game and operating a "sell to buy" policy.

 

Are you prepared to see the club lose top players, and lose out to top players, by capping wages in future ? Do you seriously think that a club like us with the support we have should be operating at the lower levels of the likes of Portsmouth and blackburn ?

 

 

you're not reading what i've posted, you're putting words in my mouth to suit yourself so there's little point in continuing

 

 

well, if you read it again, you will see I've pretty much responded on everything you asked /mentioned ie the stadium, Everton, Ken Bates, buying top players [in particular where you say I said only buying top players . I actually thought lately you were seeing the reality of the situation at the club, particularly as the new owners haven't exactly set the world on fire yet, and you are one person I have quite liked debating with previously.

 

We'll see what happens.

 

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

pretty much the response i expected NE5...but your response would have been a little different i'd guess if abramovic HADN'T come along i'd guess but we'll never know

 

suppose i could ask the question of leeds eh?  they backed their manager to the detriment of the club, do you think you'd hear leeds fans complaining about that period?  they'd more than likely tell you it was great at the time but seeing as it totally f***ed the club they'd maybe rather not have had that champions league semi final to show for it

 

one thing i find amusing is your ridiculing someone in another thread about "hindsight signings" yet you're saying in this post that chelsea fans wouldn't be complaining 'cause they had some good times and won some cups in the past when their club was on the brink of financial collapse...it's only hindsight that makes that period good for the club, had things gone the other way it might very well have been seen as the creating darkest in their history

 

finally, and this is for UV too, abramovic bought chelski after spurs told him to beat it so they weren't as attractive as all that were they?  he probably knew they were there for the taking due to their financial situation and they were in london with decent facilities...if it was an attractive, successful side he wanted why not buy arsenal or man utd?  same goes for ashley really...our share price was low due to the recent poor results and perceived (put that in for you) bad financial state of the club and he saw an opportunity to buy a great club for a reasonable amount of money, ostensibly; he was then bitten in the arse by the debt

 

anyway seems like i'm trying to turn this into an old board argument, and i'm not, honestly

 

another question though; are everton giving it a go at the moment?  'cause i agree it's better to try than not to try but what do you consider "having a stab"?  seems to me they're trying to break into the top four by buying and developing players, and you can't say they're not paying big fees either really can you?  so would you be happy with an everton-esque approach?  or for us to have a stab do we have to spend beyond our means?  or ask yourself the same question about aston villa maybe?

 

i'm guessing i already know the answer to that one too

 

quick reply, but if we had won just one Cup Final, by virtue of playing the smoggies instead of the premiership champions, would your perspective of the Halls and Shepherd be different ?

 

And yet, the Champions League is supposed to be the be all and end all these days ?

 

Leeds fans were in their element during those European Cup semi final days etc, they would hardly have been anything else. The ones I know were anyway. They also condemn Ridsdale for BORROWING money to buy too many players. They know they aren't big enough for that, they certainly know they don't have the support of Newcastle.

 

As for Everton, its taken them 6 years (SIX) to get to 5th in the league, at least 4 of those were watching Allardyce type stuff, and we already know the answer to the question would we really want to watch that for 4 years.

 

And they aren't challenging their neighbours, nothing like it, and when they upgrade their wooden delapitated stadium, they will be in debt   Maybe it won't stop them from winning a cup or two though, just like the current top 4 clubs though

 

Anyway mate, your're cherry picking, the vast majority of clubs aren't successful because they don't spend money, not vice versa, I held up the mackems as an example. They are a big club too you know ?

 

 

 

I'M cherry picking, ME??  masterful, masterful mate

 

it's taken liverpool over a decade of big spending to scrape 4th every year mate, and everton making 5th in SIX years (i'll ignore that 4th place they had just in homage to you) is considered bad by you?  don't bother wheeling out the cup wins 'cause i know already

 

amazing...i was always under the impression you had unrealistic ambitions for the club and you've just confirmed them, just how much bigger than leeds do you actually think we are?  if you think under the old board or new NUFC getting back to anywhere near the top 4-5  by spending big alone then you are severely deluded, it's unsustainable for a club our size in the current circumstances of the 2008 EPL

 

we had 80m of debt did we not?  and we'd have needed to increase that debt significantly to even come close to the top five, but yeah EVERTON are the mugs

 

 

err.......Liverpool have been winning trophies since 1958, when Shankly took over as manager. During that time, they have ALWAYS set high standards of footballer, and paid the money when they wanted the absolute top player.

 

As UV has also said, loads of clubs are run like Everton, and get precisely nowhere, so you are cherry picking.

 

Would you really swap our last decade - and a further 5 if you like - with Evertons ?

 

I think we are a canny bit bigger than Leeds. We always were, until Don Revie took them over at the same time as McKeag, Westwood etc ran us into the ground for 40 years taking us in the opposite direction.

 

Also - they were massively in debt and that is WITHOUT doing anything to their council owned crap stadium.

 

Do you think that these clubs are going to be able to carry on for decades with the stadiums and avoid going into this crippling debt that you appear to think prevents clubs from winning trophies - I've quoted the top 4 already as role models, I have no idea why you want to choose mediocre teams as role models instead.

 

THAT is what I call unrealistic ambitions and belief in your club.

 

Makes me wonder how many people on here really understand what mediocrity is all about, my guess is not too many.

 

By the way, please point out where I have EVER said that ANY of the top clubs - ie meaning us as in following the way they do it - have done what they have done "by spending big alone"

 

 

 

fair enough on the spending big alone thing, they don't just do that, but then i don't recall saying YOU said it either, perhaps implied it was your primary or maybe ONLY judgement on how well a football club is run

 

just out of interest are you not cherry picking your favourite decade of the clubs history and trotting it out to suit you in every situation?  you're the guy who always refers to a decade so when did that start?  92?  94? 96?  whenever you're starting it add ten then start the argument with the new decade; so 2002, 2004, 2006 onwards?  all ratshit basically in the grand scheme of things when you start that "decade"

 

would you swap our last decade with evertons in the 1980's?  such a question is just as relevant and meaningless  as when you reference liverpool circa 1958 and leeds under revie while at the same time talking about our last decade?  laughable...

 

i'll combine both your replies into one with the next bit; don't try and tell me what i advocate, i'll say it myself when i have an opinion...i raised this whole point about the balance between succeeding and financial sense/suicide (call it what you will) - i don't deal in absolutes, idiots do that, so i can see the virtue of running a club the way everton do, the way blackburn do; it doesn't mean i automatically think we should copy everything they do

 

as i've told you in the past i think there's a certain strength to your argument about building on the potential of the club; to me we had 2 times to do that, under keegan mk1 and robson and we basically f***ed them both up with the best of intentions...you might think we're as big you do but cementing our place on either of those occaisions would have sealed it - as it is in everywhere else but your mind we're seen as a bit of a failure all round, a bit of a joke to many

 

just so we're clear this is what i think - we had a go, a good go at success and i applaud shepherd/hall or whoever you want to name for it, i had some of my best footballing moments during the period and i doubt i'd swap them for anything...i remember walking out of wembley after arsenal turned us over and thinking how glorious we were in failure and how numb they were in victory, i'm not sure i'd swap places with them then to be honest 'cause being us is something they'll never understand

 

THAT SAID there surely has to come a point where it became clear that the money we spent in this over a decade had caught up to us and realism needed to kick in, if you can't see that i pity you, but 80m in debt with an out of control wage bill and a team utterly unable to get out of the bottom half isn't gonna fix itself overnight is it? if i hold everton up as an example of anything it's of a club who were riddled in debt and stuck to a plan that's got them from the brink of relegation to europe in a few years, surely you can see that this is our only hope short term?  we need to get to a point where have a decent balanced squad and can spend on the big players to make our claim AGAIN...if we go out now and spend 50m on 3 magnificent players or whatever i simply think we'll end up back where we were 'cause the squad is imbalanced and weak

 

it's what needed to happen under bobby - he spent 3 (?) seasons balancing the books and building a nice tidy squad then hit us with the summer of robert and bellamy and we took off again and the spending started, THIS is all i'm advocating

 

I'm not cherrry picking anything. My point is that to succeed and sustain success, you MUST have players the top 4 want themselves, and this means buying players for the top fees, or they will ( key point ).  As I keep saying, they haven't spent the money themselves if they didnt' think it was necessary. As a slight aside, the best team we have had at Newcastle in the last 50 years was also done by spending like the other big boys. If nothing else in what is being said here can be taken on board by you - perhaps because you are younger - then surely you can grasp this particular truth ?

 

You will not challenge these teams by taking the approach the also rans take ie leaving the big players to someone else. With a good manager it will take you so far and thats all.

 

A club with the 3rd biggest crowd in the UK ? Well there is something wrong if they can't compete with the other big boys. I know the reason why you and others reject this, its just because you feel the need to reject everything the fat b****** did, just because he's the fat b******. Thats true and you know it.

 

Which brings me onto your point about the last 10 or 15 years. Personally, I see it as 15 years, but as a lot of people seem to split the era of the Halls and Shepherd into 2 parts - which I don't because nothing really changed other than the figurehead and spokesperson of the group - I do this just to humour them and point out that the past decade wasn't really so bad as they make out.

 

It's pretty obvious that SJH was far better at PR than Shepherd, but personally, I don't give a monkeys for PR. The only PR that concerns me is winning, and 52000 fans every home game - over half of which weren't interested in the club for years previously - must have been attracted by something.

 

Basically, if you are saying the expansion of the stadium was a bad move, then you are massively wrong. There is just no way that anybody can say that this was not a long awaited and excellent move by the club. Add to that the new training academey, facilities etc.

 

I would have certainly swapped our decade in the 1960's, 70's and 80's with Everton, I'd have done that before you could say Gordon Lee, but no way would i have swapped the last 15 years. Not a chance.

 

I don't disagree that we messed Keegan up the first time, but its rather strange that nobody mentions this, this is probably because it was the major shareholders decision to take the club onto the stock exchange though and unfortunately, as with Ashley, it seems some people are beyond criticism whereas others are damned whatever they do.

 

I'm not denying that things went wrong with the appointment of Souness, and never have. Others on here supported him until the end though so there is no point in telling me that the club spent money on s*** players and undersold good players, because I was one who said it was going to happen.

 

When you talk about realism, you should realise that nobody appoints the "right" manager all the time, thats why the top 4 clubs haven't always been the top 4 and they won't remain so either.  That is realistic. You have to accept that everybody makes mistakes. When it comes down to it in the end though, you are better off with an ambitous board that will reach out rather than one playing the prudency game and operating a "sell to buy" policy.

 

Are you prepared to see the club lose top players, and lose out to top players, by capping wages in future ? Do you seriously think that a club like us with the support we have should be operating at the lower levels of the likes of Portsmouth and blackburn ?

 

 

you're not reading what i've posted, you're putting words in my mouth to suit yourself so there's little point in continuing

 

 

well, if you read it again, you will see I've pretty much responded on everything you asked /mentioned ie the stadium, Everton, Ken Bates, buying top players [in particular where you say I said only buying top players . I actually thought lately you were seeing the reality of the situation at the club, particularly as the new owners haven't exactly set the world on fire yet, and you are one person I have quite liked debating with previously.

 

We'll see what happens.

 

 

oooooh-k dude, you've killed yourself in the first sentence 'cause i never ONCE brought the stadium into matters, i mentioned debt, you mentioned the stadium...go back and see if you like

 

i also responded to the bit about "only buying players" or whatever in the last post so i'm not sure why you're mentioning it again? 

 

and i'm totally with you about the new board/owner, totally, they need to get their fingers out and stop talking a good game rather than playing one...the reality of the situation as we each see it is vastly different though, i think that's the fundamental problem here - as i said i'm in total agreement with you about the end game and our potential as a club, but the REALITY as i see it now is we have too many high earners who can barely play football dragging us down and to "quick fix" that is going to be very difficult and take A LOT of money, i think we need a couple of seasons of building a stronger, younger squad then go out and buy big again

 

you're right, good players may go to other clubs in that time but that's the nature of football, there's ALWAYS another good player, always

 

[oh and i kind of like debating with you too, but i realised when my replies were as big as they were things seemed to be getting bogged down a bit!!]

[afar]

I was wondering how a simple quote from Dean Saunders, had generated 5 pages, then wen straight to the last page and saw NE5 posting and I had my answer.

 

So who's having a go a poor old Fred this time ??

[NE5]

I was wondering how a simple quote from Dean Saunders, had generated 5 pages, then wen straight to the last page and saw NE5 posting and I had my answer.

 

So who's having a go a poor old Fred this time ??

 

its been raining today so somebody somewhere will be blaming him for it 

[Dave]

Only in your head tbf.

[Wullie]

Are you prepared to see the club lose top players, and lose out to top players, by capping wages in future ? Do you seriously think that a club like us with the support we have should be operating at the lower levels of the likes of Portsmouth and blackburn ?

 

How does bringing in a sensible wage structure have us operating at the levels of Blackburn and Portsmouth?

 

As far as I'm aware we've offered Owen a contract worth £80,000 per week, how many clubs outside the top 4 do you think have a player on their books earning that much?

 

where has Modric gone ?

 

Owen will leave if his wages are cut

 

 

 

What's Modric got to do with it?

 

 

He's the player NE5 didn't want and the one whose signing would signal us having no ambition. Thank God we missed out!

[NE5]

Are you prepared to see the club lose top players, and lose out to top players, by capping wages in future ? Do you seriously think that a club like us with the support we have should be operating at the lower levels of the likes of Portsmouth and blackburn ?

 

How does bringing in a sensible wage structure have us operating at the levels of Blackburn and Portsmouth?

 

As far as I'm aware we've offered Owen a contract worth £80,000 per week, how many clubs outside the top 4 do you think have a player on their books earning that much?

 

where has Modric gone ?

 

Owen will leave if his wages are cut

 

 

What's Modric got to do with it?

 

 

He's the player NE5 didn't want and the one whose signing would signal us having no ambition. Thank God we missed out!

 

Making one of your little one off interjections then scuttling away again are we ? Or raking up old posts [as I know the one you're on about ie the one where nobody had heard of him including me at the time] having nowt better to do ? I realise my point escapes you, which is that for the first time in 20 years, Spurs have beat us twice in the transfer market. Question is, how many more times is this going to happen with teams that we have been superior to, and seen to be superior to, until now ?

 

What a sad lad, I'm dead pleased when I was your age I wasted it spent it huddled over a computer instead of going out to clubs etc

 

Whatever floats your boat I suppose.

 

 

[Dave]

...for the first time in 20 years, Spurs have beat us twice in the transfer market.

 

You can't be serious?

[NE5]

...for the first time in 20 years, Spurs have beat us twice in the transfer market.

 

You can't be serious?

 

Gazza ........

 

Waddle ..........

 

Shame players such as Shearer and Rob Lee didn't move to further their careers just like those 2 did [and Beardsley], wouldn't you agree ?

 

And Les Ferdinand, who didn't want to leave Newcastle to join the club he supported as a boy.

 

The change in fortunes is obvious Dave, unless you can't bring yourself to admit it.

 

 

[Dave]

You know the ins and outs of every single transfer deal involving not only Newcastle United, but also Tottenham Hotspur in the last twenty years then?

 

Have a think about it.

[James]

I thought everyone except Freddy Shepherd didn't want Ferdinand to go to Spurs for £6m?

[NE5]

You know the ins and outs of every single transfer deal in the last twenty years then?

 

Have a think about it.

 

I probably do. Aye. I know for a fact that when Spurs signed Gazza and Waddle, they both left their local teams - especially Gazza a geordie and Newcastle fan - because they were a much bigger and more ambitious club than we were.

 

Have a think about it.

 

 

[Dave]

You know the ins and outs of every single transfer deal in the last twenty years then?

 

Have a think about it.

 

I probably do. Aye.

 

 

So basically you're admitting you are either a member of the previous board or someone very close them? Because otherwise you're lying.

 

I'm trimming your posts to take out the bullshit diversions btw.

[NE5]

I thought everyone except Freddy Shepherd didn't want Ferdinand to go to Spurs for £6m?

 

Do your history. You're blaming Shepherd when he wasn't the chairman. Sort of proves my point that someone (Dave?) has just questioned. Thanks.

 

Fact is, he didn't want to leave us and play for his boyhood team.

 

Think about it.

 

 

[NE5]

You know the ins and outs of every single transfer deal in the last twenty years then?

 

Have a think about it.

 

I probably do. Aye.

 

 

 

So basically you're admitting you are either a member of the previous board or someone very close them? Because otherwise you're lying.

 

I'm trimming your posts to take out the bullshit diversions btw.

 

What bullshit diversions ?

 

Basically Dave, most supporters knew the reasons why those players left. All 20,000 of us.

 

Anyway, I'm off. Got a long journey in the morning.

 

 

[Dave]

The bullshit diversions about crowds, Gazza, Ferdinand etc etc.

 

I don't care about those things, I never mentioned those things, and I don't want to discuss those things.

 

You are claiming to know the intimate details of every single one of NUFC and THFC's transfer dealings in the last twenty years, yes?

[Wullie]

Under Shepherd we lost out to Middlesbrough twice in a week.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

You know the ins and outs of every single transfer deal in the last twenty years then?

 

Have a think about it.

 

I probably do. Aye.

 

 

 

So basically you're admitting you are either a member of the previous board or someone very close them? Because otherwise you're lying.

 

I'm trimming your posts to take out the bullshit diversions btw.

 

What bullshit diversions ?

 

Basically Dave, most supporters knew the reasons why those players left. All 20,000 of us.

 

Anyway, I'm off. Got a long journey in the morning.

 

 

 

Superfan card played.  Dave loses