If Barry goes to Liverpool

[Guest ObaStar]

If he goes. Is it a good thing as it weakens Villa who are our competition for a European Spot or is it a bad thing as it strengthens the weakest team in the top 4?

[tmonkey]

Neither good nor bad imo.

 

Hes a good player, but hes not that massive an improvement for Liverpool over e.g. Xabi Alonso.

 

Villa might struggle to replace him, but I think Reo Coker will step up a level.

[NE5]

amazed they aren't following the master blueprint for success ie buy them when they are 19 for 2 quid or something. They are doing it all wrong, obviously.

 

 

[M4]

Neither good nor bad imo.

 

I'd agree, seems pretty much like a zero sum move.

[Guest ObaStar]

probably worse for villa come to think of it. their team is built around him.

[hakka]

I don't get this move.  Where is Barry playing then for Pool?  Is he taking Mascherano's place? is he playing a more advanced role next to Gerrard? You can't drop Mascherano, think he's been great at what he does for the Liverpool side.

 

Seems daft to move on a younger Alonso (who I rate a lot) to replace him with Barry who is a bit older, all be it a good talent.

[Dr Venkman]

I don't get this move.  Where is Barry playing then for Pool?  Is he taking Mascherano's place? is he playing a more advanced role next to Gerrard? You can't drop Mascherano, think he's been great at what he does for the Liverpool side.

 

Seems daft to move on a younger Alonso (who I rate a lot) to replace him with Barry who is a bit older, all be it a good talent.

 

maybe so they can play a 4-4-2 when they want with barry and gerrard in the middle, as barry possibly offers more going forward than mascherano, but can also do the defensive job

[Mr. Snrub]

Gerrard Mascherano Barry Babel

 

That would be my guess.  Mascherano is undroppable.

[johnnypd]

amazed they aren't following the master blueprint for success ie buy them when they are 19 for 2 quid or something. They are doing it all wrong, obviously.

 

they are doing that - they have 25 young foreign lads in the reserves and academy that they hope to develop, a couple like Plessis, Lucas and Insua already reaching the first team. that's alongside pursuing ready made players.

[Guest Heneage]

The whole thing has made me dislike Liverpool more and more, they have totally attempted to dis lodge a player from his club.

[M4]

The whole thing has made me dislike Liverpool more and more, they have totally attempted to dis lodge a player from his club.

 

Just a club trying to sign a transfer target tbh.

[NE5]

amazed they aren't following the master blueprint for success ie buy them when they are 19 for 2 quid or something. They are doing it all wrong, obviously.

 

they are doing that - they 25 young foreign lads in the reserves and academy that they hope to develop, a couple like Plessis, Lucas and Insua already reaching the first team. that's alongside pursuing ready made players.

 

Do they need him ? Isn't he, to draw a comparision with our signing of Duff, for instance, one of these "trophy signings" . I think a lot of people on here would probably go bananas if we paid 15m quid or whatever for a player the age that he is. They have said so. Well, they say they would, but now that someone else is running the club, they probably wouldn't anymore. So thats alright.

 

Not being funny Johnny but its hypocrisy such as this from a lot of people that I don't understand, well I do, I understand why they say it anyway.

 

We've had our share of youngsters over the years too. The problem with Newcastle United is we haven't bought enough top level players, we've bought too many mediocre ones instead of paying for the real deal. Not the other way round like a lot of people seem to think.

 

 

 

 

[Baggio]

amazed they aren't following the master blueprint for success ie buy them when they are 19 for 2 quid or something. They are doing it all wrong, obviously.

 

they are doing that - they 25 young foreign lads in the reserves and academy that they hope to develop, a couple like Plessis, Lucas and Insua already reaching the first team. that's alongside pursuing ready made players.

 

Do they need him ? Isn't he, to draw a comparision with our signing of Duff, for instance, one of these "trophy signings" . I think a lot of people on here would probably go bananas if we paid 15m quid or whatever for a player the age that he is. They have said so. Well, they say they would, but now that someone else is running the club, they probably wouldn't anymore. So thats alright.

 

Not being funny Johnny but its hypocrisy such as this from a lot of people that I don't understand, well I do, I understand why they say it anyway.

 

We've had our share of youngsters over the years too. The problem with Newcastle United is we haven't bought enough top level players, we've bought too many mediocre ones instead of paying for the real deal. Not the other way round like a lot of people seem to think.

 

 

 

 

 

Why do you think haven't we bought many top level players over the years?

[Guest Heneage]

The whole thing has made me dislike Liverpool more and more, they have totally attempted to dis lodge a player from his club.

 

Just a club trying to sign a transfer target tbh.

 

"Gerrard desperate for Barry to move" all the reports of making bids, make a bid simple as that, stop trying to nigh tap a player up. Like a Manc on another board i'm on said, "If it was a Liverpool player being linked in that way they would be kicking off royally."

[Guest Edd]

Gerrard Mascherano Barry Babel

 

That would be my guess.  Mascherano is undroppable.

They played with 3 central midfielders last season and Barry, Gerrard & Mascherano centrally looks pretty impressive to me.

[johnnypd]

amazed they aren't following the master blueprint for success ie buy them when they are 19 for 2 quid or something. They are doing it all wrong, obviously.

 

they are doing that - they 25 young foreign lads in the reserves and academy that they hope to develop, a couple like Plessis, Lucas and Insua already reaching the first team. that's alongside pursuing ready made players.

 

Do they need him ? Isn't he, to draw a comparision with our signing of Duff, for instance, one of these "trophy signings" . I think a lot of people on here would probably go bananas if we paid 15m quid or whatever for a player the age that he is. They have said so. Well, they say they would, but now that someone else is running the club, they probably wouldn't anymore. So thats alright.

 

Not being funny Johnny but its hypocrisy such as this from a lot of people that I don't understand, well I do, I understand why they say it anyway.

 

We've had our share of youngsters over the years too. The problem with Newcastle United is we haven't bought enough top level players, we've bought too many mediocre ones instead of paying for the real deal. Not the other way round like a lot of people seem to think.

 

liverpool's main signings have been young players on the rise, ie Reina, Agger, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Babel etc. these are the kinds of players the big clubs go for and the type we should go for too, as there's a lot of unproven talent that the biggest clubs won't yet take a gamble on IE Carrick and Modric when they went to Spurs. they also go for youngsters to fill the academy and reserves, for relatively small fees, in the hope a few come off. something all the big clubs are doing now.

 

I think this is the first time Benitez has spent big on a 27+ player, Benayoun might be another. those were two players who matured a bit later on in their career, were the best at smaller clubs and made the move up a level. Berbatov would be another example of this if he moves on to man utd or somewhere like that. that's very different to buying someone of similar age from a big club who has started a steep decline (like Duff) and sees us as a move down and a last pay day. DO they need him? Well it is expected that they're getting rid of Alonso so yes.

 

not that i'm writing off players from the latter group, as you have to take each player on his individual merits, but i'd hope we've had our fingers burnt too many times for us to take a more sceptical approach to those types.

[NE5]

amazed they aren't following the master blueprint for success ie buy them when they are 19 for 2 quid or something. They are doing it all wrong, obviously.

 

they are doing that - they 25 young foreign lads in the reserves and academy that they hope to develop, a couple like Plessis, Lucas and Insua already reaching the first team. that's alongside pursuing ready made players.

 

Do they need him ? Isn't he, to draw a comparision with our signing of Duff, for instance, one of these "trophy signings" . I think a lot of people on here would probably go bananas if we paid 15m quid or whatever for a player the age that he is. They have said so. Well, they say they would, but now that someone else is running the club, they probably wouldn't anymore. So thats alright.

 

Not being funny Johnny but its hypocrisy such as this from a lot of people that I don't understand, well I do, I understand why they say it anyway.

 

We've had our share of youngsters over the years too. The problem with Newcastle United is we haven't bought enough top level players, we've bought too many mediocre ones instead of paying for the real deal. Not the other way round like a lot of people seem to think.

 

 

 

 

 

Why do you think haven't we bought many top level players over the years?

 

Well Baggio, I have read many people slating the club for buying these trophy players etc etc, but nobody can name who they are.

 

Simple fact is they have been accused of not trying to build a team at the expense of buying "trophy" players. In actual fact, they HAVE tried to build a team and the only "trophy/Hollywood" players that the club have signed are probably Owen and Shearer. Its the absolute top level players who you need if you want to be at the absolute top level.

 

The board has backed the managers for what they wanted as best they could, but in simple terms on some occasions should have raised the bar higher, that goes for the club and the manager. What I mean is its all well and good buying players like Duff, Parker, Barton, Luque, Boumsong, these sort of players should all have been good buys at a good price to build a good team. But look at them. Whats the combined fee for all of that lot ? Would anybody not rather have had Rooney than 3 or 4 of those players. The guaranteed article. The absolute top player. When you have a player of that calibre in your team then you know you just don't need anybody else to replace him. You need 2 or 3 players of this sort of quality in any side that wants to win trophies.

 

Not 1, and we've only had one or two.

 

You buy 8 or 9 sub-priced players and you will get 1 or 2 who come up to scratch ie like last summer, the rest aren't good enough, so you are paying the money for 8 or 9 players and getting 1 or 2.

 

You buy 4 or 5 more expensive players and you will get 2 or 3 who come up to scratch, you are paying the money for 4 or 5 players and getting 2 or 3 who are good enough.

 

Far better off going for the real deal and getting it right first time.

 

Bobby Robson had a Shearer past his best, an up and coming Bellamy, and Woodgate for a while. Injuries spiked both the players that he signed. And he did well to get both of these players for relatively smaller fees than what they should have cost.

 

People laughed when we tried to buy Rooney, but if you don't believe you can buy these sort of players or attempt to do it, then you may as well give up.

 

I can't believe Newcastle fans who aren't happy with a player like Owen signing for the club. Unbelievable. We need another couple like him, and if we had them, things would have been a lot better. All we hear now is people supporting the cutting of the wage bill. What sort of player is this going to attract to the club ?

 

 

[NE5]

amazed they aren't following the master blueprint for success ie buy them when they are 19 for 2 quid or something. They are doing it all wrong, obviously.

 

they are doing that - they 25 young foreign lads in the reserves and academy that they hope to develop, a couple like Plessis, Lucas and Insua already reaching the first team. that's alongside pursuing ready made players.

 

Do they need him ? Isn't he, to draw a comparision with our signing of Duff, for instance, one of these "trophy signings" . I think a lot of people on here would probably go bananas if we paid 15m quid or whatever for a player the age that he is. They have said so. Well, they say they would, but now that someone else is running the club, they probably wouldn't anymore. So thats alright.

 

Not being funny Johnny but its hypocrisy such as this from a lot of people that I don't understand, well I do, I understand why they say it anyway.

 

We've had our share of youngsters over the years too. The problem with Newcastle United is we haven't bought enough top level players, we've bought too many mediocre ones instead of paying for the real deal. Not the other way round like a lot of people seem to think.

 

liverpool's main signings have been young players on the rise, ie Reina, Agger, Mascherano, Alonso, Torres, Babel etc. these are the kinds of players the big clubs go for and the type we should go for too, as there's a lot of unproven talent that the biggest clubs won't yet take a gamble on IE Carrick and Modric when they went to Spurs. they also go for youngsters to fill the academy and reserves, for relatively small fees, in the hope a few come off. something all the big clubs are doing now.

 

I think this is the first time Benitez has spent big on a 27+ player, Benayoun might be another. those were two players who matured a bit later on in their career, were the best at smaller clubs and made the move up a level. Berbatov would be another example of this if he moves on to man utd or somewhere like that. that's very different to buying someone of similar age from a big club who has started a steep decline (like Duff) and sees us as a move down and a last pay day. DO they need him? Well it is expected that they're getting rid of Alonso so yes.

 

not that i'm writing off players from the latter group, as you have to take each player on his individual merits, but i'd hope we've had our fingers burnt too many times for us to take a more sceptical approach to those types.

 

Well mate, it WAS the policy of the club in the past to buy players in their early 20's etc for the most part, players who would either have a sell on fee if they chose to leave later of get their best years from them, or both.

 

After that, it becomes a matter of judgement though. Nobody will argue that too many players haven't came up to scratch, but see my reply to Baggio.

 

 

[Baggio]

Having a sensible wage structure hasn't done other clubs much harm but that's for another thread.

 

I'd love nothing more than to be able to go out and spend our entire transfer budget on one top class player but it's just not wise doing it while you've got a team of very average players IMO, not only are you putting all of your eggs in one basket but you will struggle to hold onto that player long term.

 

What I'd like to see the club do is put together a talented group of young players under the age of 24 so that we've got a good base to work with, that way we can be in a position in a few years where we can go out and blow all of our transfer fee on a Torres or a player similar to that without having to ignore other positions in the first team.

 

As for why we haven't bought many top players over the years, I think it's down to having a poor scouting network which has made it hard to identify talent, a poor youth system which hasn't produced any sort of quality player and that a lot of players we've bought have been too old, meaning we've always been in a position (especially in recent years) where we have to go out and buy 4 or 5 players a season because some of our current lot are on the way down and need replacing.

 

Would I prefer to bring in 1 top class player for £20 million rather than 4 players for £5 million each? Of course I would but until we get a quality young squad in place we're going to have to keep bringing in the £5 million players.

[johnnypd]

Well mate, it WAS the policy of the club in the past to buy players in their early 20's etc for the most part, players who would either have a sell on fee if they chose to leave later of get their best years from them, or both.

 

After that, it becomes a matter of judgement though. Nobody will argue that too many players haven't came up to scratch, but see my reply to Baggio.

 

^that worked as well, it took us to the champion's league.

 

as for having rooney, well Everton had him in their side and finished one place above the relegation zone. they sold him, spent some of the money on middling players like cahill, bent and arteta who could make a better team, and qualified for the champions league the next season. but anyway, i wouldve loved him here, and that is the kind of player i want to see us go after, young players who are only going to get better. maybe not to the extent where we'd spend our entire budget on him, as that would be reckless and might only deliver the kind of side everton had with him ie relegation fodder. but the likes of Modric or Veloso or Gomis, costing £15m or there abouts. see Baggio's post above for some of the reasons why.

[ChrisJbarnes]

could be another case of a player being amazing for a uefa cup/midtable team and then going to a big 4 team and mucking it all up. having said that, carrick is looking good for man united.

[Optimistic Nut]

could be another case of a player being amazing for a uefa cup/midtable team and then going to a big 4 team and mucking it all up. having said that, carrick is looking good for man united.

 

To be fair to Barry though, unlike players such as Ben Haim, Sidwell, SWP, etc. who have went to one of the big four after just a couple of years and clearly know they're going to be no more than squad players, Barry has been at Villa for 9 years now, has had plenty of time getting regular football, and will probably be at the stage now where he'll be thinking he wants trophies and medals, even if it does mean only playing 20-25 games a season or whatever.

[Dave]

Having a sensible wage structure hasn't done other clubs much harm but that's for another thread.

 

I'd love nothing more than to be able to go out and spend our entire transfer budget on one top class player but it's just not wise doing it while you've got a team of very average players IMO, not only are you putting all of your eggs in one basket but you will struggle to hold onto that player long term.

 

What I'd like to see the club do is put together a talented group of young players under the age of 24 so that we've got a good base to work with, that way we can be in a position in a few years where we can go out and blow all of our transfer fee on a Torres or a player similar to that without having to ignore other positions in the first team.

 

As for why we haven't bought many top players over the years, I think it's down to having a poor scouting network which has made it hard to identify talent, a poor youth system which hasn't produced any sort of quality player and that a lot of players we've bought have been too old, meaning we've always been in a position (especially in recent years) where we have to go out and buy 4 or 5 players a season because some of our current lot are on the way down and need replacing.

 

Would I prefer to bring in 1 top class player for £20 million rather than 4 players for £5 million each? Of course I would but until we get a quality young squad in place we're going to have to keep bringing in the £5 million players.

 

Cracking post.

[NE5]

Well mate, it WAS the policy of the club in the past to buy players in their early 20's etc for the most part, players who would either have a sell on fee if they chose to leave later of get their best years from them, or both.

 

After that, it becomes a matter of judgement though. Nobody will argue that too many players haven't came up to scratch, but see my reply to Baggio.

 

^that worked as well, it took us to the champion's league.

 

as for having rooney, well Everton had him in their side and finished one place above the relegation zone. they sold him, spent some of the money on middling players like cahill, bent and arteta who could make a better team, and qualified for the champions league the next season. but anyway, i wouldve loved him here, and that is the kind of player i want to see us go after, young players who are only going to get better. maybe not to the extent where we'd spend our entire budget on him, as that would be reckless and might only deliver the kind of side everton had with him ie relegation fodder. but the likes of Modric or Veloso or Gomis, costing £15m or there abouts. see Baggio's post above for some of the reasons why.

 

well, yes it worked, to a degree. So what do people slate the board for ?

 

Appointing Souness, yes of course, but that doesn't change the fact that the approach was right, and they understood the need for quality footballers ?

 

Rooney was still a kid though. You are right that Everton spent the money well and did better, but I can show you Newcastle United who sold Gazza, and were relegated after finishing 8th. Previous to that Beardsley and Waddle were also sold and replaced inadequately. Evertons example is not the norm.

 

Point now ironically is they need a couple of players like Rooney to break into the top 4, but thats my whole point entirely and always has been.

 

 

[NE5]

Having a sensible wage structure hasn't done other clubs much harm but that's for another thread.

 

I'd love nothing more than to be able to go out and spend our entire transfer budget on one top class player but it's just not wise doing it while you've got a team of very average players IMO, not only are you putting all of your eggs in one basket but you will struggle to hold onto that player long term.

 

What I'd like to see the club do is put together a talented group of young players under the age of 24 so that we've got a good base to work with, that way we can be in a position in a few years where we can go out and blow all of our transfer fee on a Torres or a player similar to that without having to ignore other positions in the first team.

 

As for why we haven't bought many top players over the years, I think it's down to having a poor scouting network which has made it hard to identify talent, a poor youth system which hasn't produced any sort of quality player and that a lot of players we've bought have been too old, meaning we've always been in a position (especially in recent years) where we have to go out and buy 4 or 5 players a season because some of our current lot are on the way down and need replacing.

 

Would I prefer to bring in 1 top class player for £20 million rather than 4 players for £5 million each? Of course I would but until we get a quality young squad in place we're going to have to keep bringing in the £5 million players.

 

maybe, I take the view that you should take opportunities, and also the attitude that you should ask yourself "he may be a good player but is he good enough for us".

 

As a starting point I would go out and buy Bentley and if they want 15m just pay it. Far better than buying 2 sub standard players and repeating in 12 months time exactly what we are saying now.

 

Edit:

 

Ref the youth system, I can tell you that the mackems and smoggies have always looked after youngsters ie very young ones, better than Newcastle. Where has that got them ? How often have they been above us ? I'm not denying its a good step, of course it is, but give some credit for the new training academy which in actual fact has been over 50 years overdue at newcastle, at least.