If Barry goes to Liverpool

[brummie]

Going back to the original post, about Barry going to Liverpool.

 

To be entirely honest, given the choice, I'd rather he stayed. Mainly because if the chasing pack flog their better players to the Sky 4 whenever they come knocking, not a lot will change.

 

However, having said that, I've said this for ages now - some of you will recall it - Barry has had at best half a season this year, at very best. He went missing for a considerable length of time.

 

He's an excellent player, but if you asked me who our three most influential players have been this season, I'd say Young, Laursen and Bouma, not Barry.

 

I reckon he'll go, and I reckon he'll regret it in the long term, but maybe that's wishful thinking. We'll buy someone to replace him and move on.

 

We'll have even more money to spend (although to be fair, the right players as part of the deal would solve a lot of our problems), and we've got some really excellent prospects in the youth team (Bannan, Forrester, Delfouneso) so things will still look pretty bright.

 

 

[Guest]

As long as you aim for a better player than Sidwell, I think you'll be fine tbh.

[brummie]

As long as you aim for a better player than Sidwell, I think you'll be fine tbh.

 

I think Sidwell is a more than decent player, to be fair.

 

I'd be happy if we bought him - not as a replacement for Barry per se, but as we need strength in depth in a lot of areas, including midfield.

[Dave]

Get Alonso in the deal, job done.

[NE5]

Going back to the original post, about Barry going to Liverpool.

 

To be entirely honest, given the choice, I'd rather he stayed. Mainly because if the chasing pack flog their better players to the Sky 4 whenever they come knocking, not a lot will change.

 

However, having said that, I've said this for ages now - some of you will recall it - Barry has had at best half a season this year, at very best. He went missing for a considerable length of time.

 

He's an excellent player, but if you asked me who our three most influential players have been this season, I'd say Young, Laursen and Bouma, not Barry.

 

I reckon he'll go, and I reckon he'll regret it in the long term, but maybe that's wishful thinking. We'll buy someone to replace him and move on.

 

We'll have even more money to spend (although to be fair, the right players as part of the deal would solve a lot of our problems), and we've got some really excellent prospects in the youth team (Bannan, Forrester, Delfouneso) so things will still look pretty bright.

 

 

 

You watch Barry more than us, or me anyway. It sounds more to me like being a one club player, he may be stale. If so, then it may be best to go. These things happen. You'll need a good replacement though

 

Agree about Young. I'd swap him for Milner, or preferably Duff, in a heartbeat.

 

 

[Dave]

Agree about Young. I'd swap him for Milner, or preferably Duff, in a heartbeat.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

You reckon?

[Baggio]

Having a sensible wage structure hasn't done other clubs much harm but that's for another thread.

 

I'd love nothing more than to be able to go out and spend our entire transfer budget on one top class player but it's just not wise doing it while you've got a team of very average players IMO, not only are you putting all of your eggs in one basket but you will struggle to hold onto that player long term.

 

What I'd like to see the club do is put together a talented group of young players under the age of 24 so that we've got a good base to work with, that way we can be in a position in a few years where we can go out and blow all of our transfer fee on a Torres or a player similar to that without having to ignore other positions in the first team.

 

As for why we haven't bought many top players over the years, I think it's down to having a poor scouting network which has made it hard to identify talent, a poor youth system which hasn't produced any sort of quality player and that a lot of players we've bought have been too old, meaning we've always been in a position (especially in recent years) where we have to go out and buy 4 or 5 players a season because some of our current lot are on the way down and need replacing.

 

Would I prefer to bring in 1 top class player for £20 million rather than 4 players for £5 million each? Of course I would but until we get a quality young squad in place we're going to have to keep bringing in the £5 million players.

 

maybe, I take the view that you should take opportunities, and also the attitude that you should ask yourself "he may be a good player but is he good enough for us".

 

As a starting point I would go out and buy Bentley and if they want 15m just pay it. Far better than buying 2 sub standard players and repeating in 12 months time exactly what we are saying now.

 

Edit:

 

Ref the youth system, I can tell you that the mackems and smoggies have always looked after youngsters ie very young ones, better than Newcastle. Where has that got them ? How often have they been above us ? I'm not denying its a good step, of course it is, but give some credit for the new training academy which in actual fact has been over 50 years overdue at newcastle, at least.

 

 

 

Even if we don't go for Bentley it's players of his age and quality that we should be aiming for, which is what I think the club want to do.

 

As for the academy, I'm not saying we should put all of our efforts into that and ignore signing quality players as we won't get anywhere, a good youth system is important though as the more quality youngsters we can bring through the less first team positions we'll need to buy for, meaning we can afford to spend what money we have got on those positions rather than have to spend less on more players.

 

Look at Man Utd for example, when was the last time they had to spend big money on a right back? Or on a left or right wing? Or even in the middle? They didn't have to for years because they either brought through great youngsters or went out and bought a quality young midfielder like Roy Keane, Veron was the only big money buy in any of those positions and he didn't really work out.

 

After having 10 years out of these players Fergie is looking to do the same again, Beckham left so they bought Ronaldo who was 17 iirc, they've also bought Nani and Anderson as replacements for Giggs and Scholes, in an ideal world Fergie would have these players at Man Utd for another 10 years and if they develop properly then it's less positions he has to fill, meaning he can go out and spend all of his Summer kitty on one player if he wants because he doesn't have to worry about filling the midfield or anything like that.

[NE5]

Agree about Young. I'd swap him for Milner, or preferably Duff, in a heartbeat.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

You reckon?

 

nowt to contribute Dave ?

 

 

[Alberto2005]

Agree about Young. I'd swap him for Milner, or preferably Duff, in a heartbeat.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

You reckon?

 

nowt to contribute Dave ?

 

 

It was a pretty obvious thing to say.

[NE5]

Having a sensible wage structure hasn't done other clubs much harm but that's for another thread.

 

I'd love nothing more than to be able to go out and spend our entire transfer budget on one top class player but it's just not wise doing it while you've got a team of very average players IMO, not only are you putting all of your eggs in one basket but you will struggle to hold onto that player long term.

 

What I'd like to see the club do is put together a talented group of young players under the age of 24 so that we've got a good base to work with, that way we can be in a position in a few years where we can go out and blow all of our transfer fee on a Torres or a player similar to that without having to ignore other positions in the first team.

 

As for why we haven't bought many top players over the years, I think it's down to having a poor scouting network which has made it hard to identify talent, a poor youth system which hasn't produced any sort of quality player and that a lot of players we've bought have been too old, meaning we've always been in a position (especially in recent years) where we have to go out and buy 4 or 5 players a season because some of our current lot are on the way down and need replacing.

 

Would I prefer to bring in 1 top class player for £20 million rather than 4 players for £5 million each? Of course I would but until we get a quality young squad in place we're going to have to keep bringing in the £5 million players.

 

maybe, I take the view that you should take opportunities, and also the attitude that you should ask yourself "he may be a good player but is he good enough for us".

 

As a starting point I would go out and buy Bentley and if they want 15m just pay it. Far better than buying 2 sub standard players and repeating in 12 months time exactly what we are saying now.

 

Edit:

 

Ref the youth system, I can tell you that the mackems and smoggies have always looked after youngsters ie very young ones, better than Newcastle. Where has that got them ? How often have they been above us ? I'm not denying its a good step, of course it is, but give some credit for the new training academy which in actual fact has been over 50 years overdue at newcastle, at least.

 

 

 

Even if we don't go for Bentley it's players of his age and quality that we should be aiming for, which is what I think the club want to do.

 

As for the academy, I'm not saying we should put all of our efforts into that and ignore signing quality players as we won't get anywhere, a good youth system is important though as the more quality youngsters we can bring through the less first team positions we'll need to buy for, meaning we can afford to spend what money we have got on those positions rather than have to spend less on more players.

 

Look at Man Utd for example, when was the last time they had to spend big money on a right back? Or on a left or right wing? Or even in the middle? They didn't have to for years because they either brought through great youngsters or went out and bought a quality young midfielder like Roy Keane, Veron was the only big money buy in any of those positions and he didn't really work out.

 

After having 10 years out of these players Fergie is looking to do the same again, Beckham left so they bought Ronaldo who was 17 iirc, they've also bought Nani and Anderson as replacements for Giggs and Scholes, in an ideal world Fergie would have these players at Man Utd for another 10 years and if they develop properly then it's less positions he has to fill, meaning he can go out and spend all of his Summer kitty on one player if he wants because he doesn't have to worry about filling the midfield or anything like that.

 

What you don't understand is the difference between a club having a policy and a manager showing good judgement of footballers.

 

The vast majority of ManU's team cost a huge amount of money, the 3 players you mention did well

[NE5]

Agree about Young. I'd swap him for Milner, or preferably Duff, in a heartbeat.

 

 

 

:lol:

 

You reckon?

 

nowt to contribute Dave ?

 

 

It was a pretty obvious thing to say.

 

yawn

 

 

[Baggio]

What you don't understand is the difference between a club having a policy and a manager showing good judgement of footballers.

 

Where do you draw that opinion from?

[fredbob]

Having a sensible wage structure hasn't done other clubs much harm but that's for another thread.

 

I'd love nothing more than to be able to go out and spend our entire transfer budget on one top class player but it's just not wise doing it while you've got a team of very average players IMO, not only are you putting all of your eggs in one basket but you will struggle to hold onto that player long term.

 

What I'd like to see the club do is put together a talented group of young players under the age of 24 so that we've got a good base to work with, that way we can be in a position in a few years where we can go out and blow all of our transfer fee on a Torres or a player similar to that without having to ignore other positions in the first team.

 

As for why we haven't bought many top players over the years, I think it's down to having a poor scouting network which has made it hard to identify talent, a poor youth system which hasn't produced any sort of quality player and that a lot of players we've bought have been too old, meaning we've always been in a position (especially in recent years) where we have to go out and buy 4 or 5 players a season because some of our current lot are on the way down and need replacing.

 

Would I prefer to bring in 1 top class player for £20 million rather than 4 players for £5 million each? Of course I would but until we get a quality young squad in place we're going to have to keep bringing in the £5 million players.

 

maybe, I take the view that you should take opportunities, and also the attitude that you should ask yourself "he may be a good player but is he good enough for us".

 

As a starting point I would go out and buy Bentley and if they want 15m just pay it. Far better than buying 2 sub standard players and repeating in 12 months time exactly what we are saying now.

 

Edit:

 

Ref the youth system, I can tell you that the mackems and smoggies have always looked after youngsters ie very young ones, better than Newcastle. Where has that got them ? How often have they been above us ? I'm not denying its a good step, of course it is, but give some credit for the new training academy which in actual fact has been over 50 years overdue at newcastle, at least.

 

 

 

Even if we don't go for Bentley it's players of his age and quality that we should be aiming for, which is what I think the club want to do.

 

As for the academy, I'm not saying we should put all of our efforts into that and ignore signing quality players as we won't get anywhere, a good youth system is important though as the more quality youngsters we can bring through the less first team positions we'll need to buy for, meaning we can afford to spend what money we have got on those positions rather than have to spend less on more players.

 

Look at Man Utd for example, when was the last time they had to spend big money on a right back? Or on a left or right wing? Or even in the middle? They didn't have to for years because they either brought through great youngsters or went out and bought a quality young midfielder like Roy Keane, Veron was the only big money buy in any of those positions and he didn't really work out.

 

After having 10 years out of these players Fergie is looking to do the same again, Beckham left so they bought Ronaldo who was 17 iirc, they've also bought Nani and Anderson as replacements for Giggs and Scholes, in an ideal world Fergie would have these players at Man Utd for another 10 years and if they develop properly then it's less positions he has to fill, meaning he can go out and spend all of his Summer kitty on one player if he wants because he doesn't have to worry about filling the midfield or anything like that.

 

What you don't understand is the difference between a club having a policy and a manager showing good judgement of footballers.

 

The vast majority of ManU's team cost a huge amount of money, the 3 players you mention did well

 

What difference is there between us wanting to sign, Modric, Woodgate and Turan and Gomis and Man U wanting to sign, Ronaldo, Nani, Anderson and Ferdinand?

 

Now Im not comparing them player for player but i fail to see the difference in policy?

[madras]

Having a sensible wage structure hasn't done other clubs much harm but that's for another thread.

 

I'd love nothing more than to be able to go out and spend our entire transfer budget on one top class player but it's just not wise doing it while you've got a team of very average players IMO, not only are you putting all of your eggs in one basket but you will struggle to hold onto that player long term.

 

What I'd like to see the club do is put together a talented group of young players under the age of 24 so that we've got a good base to work with, that way we can be in a position in a few years where we can go out and blow all of our transfer fee on a Torres or a player similar to that without having to ignore other positions in the first team.

 

As for why we haven't bought many top players over the years, I think it's down to having a poor scouting network which has made it hard to identify talent, a poor youth system which hasn't produced any sort of quality player and that a lot of players we've bought have been too old, meaning we've always been in a position (especially in recent years) where we have to go out and buy 4 or 5 players a season because some of our current lot are on the way down and need replacing.

 

Would I prefer to bring in 1 top class player for £20 million rather than 4 players for £5 million each? Of course I would but until we get a quality young squad in place we're going to have to keep bringing in the £5 million players.

 

maybe, I take the view that you should take opportunities, and also the attitude that you should ask yourself "he may be a good player but is he good enough for us".

 

As a starting point I would go out and buy Bentley and if they want 15m just pay it. Far better than buying 2 sub standard players and repeating in 12 months time exactly what we are saying now.

 

Edit:

 

Ref the youth system, I can tell you that the mackems and smoggies have always looked after youngsters ie very young ones, better than Newcastle. Where has that got them ? How often have they been above us ? I'm not denying its a good step, of course it is, but give some credit for the new training academy which in actual fact has been over 50 years overdue at newcastle, at least.

 

 

 

Even if we don't go for Bentley it's players of his age and quality that we should be aiming for, which is what I think the club want to do.

 

As for the academy, I'm not saying we should put all of our efforts into that and ignore signing quality players as we won't get anywhere, a good youth system is important though as the more quality youngsters we can bring through the less first team positions we'll need to buy for, meaning we can afford to spend what money we have got on those positions rather than have to spend less on more players.

 

Look at Man Utd for example, when was the last time they had to spend big money on a right back? Or on a left or right wing? Or even in the middle? They didn't have to for years because they either brought through great youngsters or went out and bought a quality young midfielder like Roy Keane, Veron was the only big money buy in any of those positions and he didn't really work out.

 

After having 10 years out of these players Fergie is looking to do the same again, Beckham left so they bought Ronaldo who was 17 iirc, they've also bought Nani and Anderson as replacements for Giggs and Scholes, in an ideal world Fergie would have these players at Man Utd for another 10 years and if they develop properly then it's less positions he has to fill, meaning he can go out and spend all of his Summer kitty on one player if he wants because he doesn't have to worry about filling the midfield or anything like that.

 

What you don't understand is the difference between a club having a policy and a manager showing good judgement of footballers.

 

The vast majority of ManU's team cost a huge amount of money, the 3 players you mention did well

 

What difference is there between us wanting to sign, Modric, Woodgate and Turan and Gomis and Man U wanting to sign, Ronaldo, Nani, Anderson and Ferdinand?

 

Now Im not comparing them player for player but i fail to see the difference in policy?

has to be said ..when was the last time man utd signed a player over 25 (not inc van der sar as keepaers are different)

[fredbob]

There are obviously a few exceptions like Hargreaves but to me the genral policy out of the top 4 is to look at the younger spectrum of players, players like Nani, Ronaldo, rooney, Torres, Babel, Skrtel, Maschereno , all of the Arsenal squad etc.

 

In fact its only Chelsea who buy the proven player on a regular basis but thats only becasue they;re in a league of there own finacne wise.

 

 

[madras]

There are obviously a few exceptions like Hargreaves but to me the genral policy out of the top 4 is to look at the younger spectrum of players, players like Nani, Ronaldo, rooney, Torres, Babel, Skrtel, Maschereno , all of the Arsenal squad etc.

 

In fact its only Chelsea who buy the proven player on a regular basis but thats only becasue they;re in a league of there own finacne wise.

 

 

There are obviously a few exceptions like Hargreaves but to me the genral policy out of the top 4 is to look at the younger spectrum of players, players like Nani, Ronaldo, rooney, Torres, Babel, Skrtel, Maschereno , all of the Arsenal squad etc.

 

In fact its only Chelsea who buy the proven player on a regular basis but thats only becasue they;re in a league of there own finacne wise.

 

 

hes an aexception by a few months rather than a 29 yr old type thing

[johnnypd]

There are obviously a few exceptions like Hargreaves but to me the genral policy out of the top 4 is to look at the younger spectrum of players, players like Nani, Ronaldo, rooney, Torres, Babel, Skrtel, Maschereno , all of the Arsenal squad etc.

 

In fact its only Chelsea who buy the proven player on a regular basis but thats only becasue they;re in a league of there own finacne wise.

 

 

There are obviously a few exceptions like Hargreaves but to me the genral policy out of the top 4 is to look at the younger spectrum of players, players like Nani, Ronaldo, rooney, Torres, Babel, Skrtel, Maschereno , all of the Arsenal squad etc.

 

In fact its only Chelsea who buy the proven player on a regular basis but thats only becasue they;re in a league of there own finacne wise.

 

 

hes an aexception by a few months rather than a 29 yr old type thing

 

plus they originlly tried to get him a year earlier only bayern played hard ball and then hargreaves broke his leg.

[Offshore]

Benetiz must obviously see him as a step up in midfield otherwise he wouldn't be allowing Gerrard to openly tap him up, while allowing Alonso to sort out a move.

 

If he's 29 (haven't checked) and presuming he keeps himself fit (I don't think he's got that much of a bad injury record) then he's got a minimum of at least 2 years still as a top player, and thats me being very pessimistic.

 

I don't think Benetiz has the time left to basically finish fourth every year, while for other teams it would be a cracking achievement, for Liverpool its not - whether thats them having unrealistic aims is another subject. So he has to challenge for the title and the only way to do that is get the best players he can in now regardless of their age. Their midfield of Gerrard, Barry and Macscherano would be imo a very strong and dynamic centre to their team, keep Torres fit and I could see them getting closer to the top next season.

 

 

 

[NE5]

What you don't understand is the difference between a club having a policy and a manager showing good judgement of footballers.

 

Where do you draw that opinion from?

 

maybe I did make a harsh statement, but Alex Ferguson showed good judgement, better than Gullt/Bobby Robson when they brought in Dyer, Jeanarse, Bramble, Viana, Gavilan etc for EXACTLY the same reasons

 

Roy Keane was, at the time manu bought him, the new "best player" IMO by the way, and also cost a record fee

 

 

 

[bealios]

Whilst its great to build a pool of youngsters <24 years old, they are never going to be the finished article. How do you get them to move on to the next level? Easy, make sure that they are training every day and playing alongside fully developed experienced players.

 

IIRC Roy Keane wasn't brought into a side to play alongside a load of youngsters - he started in a midfield with Robson, and then played with Ince, Hughes, McClair etc. John Terry played with some world class defenders, admittedly towards the end of their career, and that must have rubbed off. Who do we have to train, play alongside and develop Steven Taylor? Bramble, Boumsong, Moore, Cacapa, Ramage - the list goes on.

 

I'm all for taking chances on young players, and see the benefits of getting i.e. Carrick at an early age rather than paying £18m, but you need to have a basis of established professionals at the peak of their game to learn from if you're ever going to succeed. That is why we should offer Michael Owen (within reason) whatever he wants, why we should be buying an experienced central defender with regular Champions League experience, and then look towards some young potential stars to train with those players and develop.

 

On a slight aside, I guess Beardsley when we signed him for the second time wouldn't fall within our current supposed "transfer policy", but who would object to signing him now (as he was when we signed him last time, not in his 40's!), even on £100,000 a week?

[Guest teepee]

i think a mid three of barry, marcerano and gerrard is what rafa is gunning for. he'll then play only torres up front, with a new right winger/gerrard covering the right side.

 

another option could be that he wants the team to be incredibly solid, ie barry-marcherano-alonso-gerrard, and then actually try playing two strikers.

 

imo barry is a great player, and would be a good signing for pool.

 

as for us - this is good and bad news. we'll be closer to villa, but farther from pool...

[rocksammy]

hey brummie, sorry to side track you, the young australian lad in your youth team atm, do u know how hes going

[johnnypd]

Whilst its great to build a pool of youngsters <24 years old, they are never going to be the finished article. How do you get them to move on to the next level? Easy, make sure that they are training every day and playing alongside fully developed experienced players.

 

IIRC Roy Keane wasn't brought into a side to play alongside a load of youngsters - he started in a midfield with Robson, and then played with Ince, Hughes, McClair etc. John Terry played with some world class defenders, admittedly towards the end of their career, and that must have rubbed off. Who do we have to train, play alongside and develop Steven Taylor? Bramble, Boumsong, Moore, Cacapa, Ramage - the list goes on.

 

I'm all for taking chances on young players, and see the benefits of getting i.e. Carrick at an early age rather than paying £18m, but you need to have a basis of established professionals at the peak of their game to learn from if you're ever going to succeed. That is why we should offer Michael Owen (within reason) whatever he wants, why we should be buying an experienced central defender with regular Champions League experience, and then look towards some young potential stars to train with those players and develop.

 

On a slight aside, I guess Beardsley when we signed him for the second time wouldn't fall within our current supposed "transfer policy", but who would object to signing him now (as he was when we signed him last time, not in his 40's!), even on £100,000 a week?

 

obviously you need a blend of youth and experience. even robson's 'young' team had Speed, Shearer and Solano as more mature heads leading the way. i think we have some players like this who can perform a similar role, Owen, Faye and Beye for instance. Given is another who has reached this level of maturity, tho sadly his ability seems to have declined as he's aged. what we need to do now is bring in younger players who can develop together.

[Dave]

It's crazy how everything has to be so polarised on this forum.

 

You can't criticise Shepherd without being accused of saying he was the worst chairman of all time, and you can't say 'let's buy young players' without being accused of wanting to ignore the here and now.

 

You can't criticise a player without being a 'hater' and you can't praise a player without being reminded of his flaws.

 

It's fucking ridiculous.

[Guest nufc_geordie]

I reckon that if Liverpool do get Barry then their midfield looks extremely balanced:

 

Babel------------------Gerrard------------------Kuyt

 

-----------Barry---------------------Mascherano

 

Replace Kuyt with a lightning fast skillful right winger and with Torres upfront that is an extremely compact midfield with plenty to offer going forwards.