Ashley's recruitment men Wise, Jimenez, Vetere to blame for lack of signings?

[relámpago blanco]

Only 6 Clubs have made more signings.

[Yorkie]

What if we sign four players tomorrow like? Yeah, we probably won't, but my point is - we don't have a fucking clue what's going on. It's funny how the press and suchlike can fuel such dramatic assumptions and paranoia "we're failing in the transfer market". Keegan's comments haven't encouraged me a huge amount today, but i have faith in him and the recruitment team to aquire the new personnel to provide us with further grounds to push on and get into Europe in the future.

 

Like i say, the fact of the matter is, it's all based on whatifs - we don't know what's happening so we've got no real grounds to pass comment on the policies. This all seems pretty obvious to me anyhow, i dunno.

 

I'll echo Kimbo's comments and say that we pose the question when the window's closed. Then we can point fingers and see what the hell's gone wrong (assuming of course that we don't have a successful window, which probably won't happen in my eyes).

 

haven't read past this yet but i have to clarify that you're saying the time to ask questions and point fingers is when nothing whatsoever can be done about it?  is that what you're saying?  that if we start the season with another severly depleted squad in terms of personnel & talent - THAT is the time to ask questions?

 

you can see that makes no sense right

 

i'm not saying that people like me offering opinions on this website could influence events or anything but people like you weren't willing to ask questions prior to the euros, now it's prior to the close of the window...how much grace does this guy get for buying "evil freddie" out?  do we wait january out too if he still doesn't fancy paying the asking price for good players? [i'm convinced this is what is going on by the way, behind the scenes, and no i have no 'evidence']

 

happy i'm not on death row and you lot were representing me, you'd wait til the lethal injection kicked in before opening the file to see if i was guilty

 

Well there you go, then.

 

We haven't got the first clue what's going on, and me making an 'asking questions' thread isn't going to make a blind bit of difference as to whether or not they change their (unknown) policies. If you've got your mind made up, purely through the agenda of certain newspapers and a generally slow transfer window, then you go for it. That's where you and i differ, and that's why our thought processes about it are different.

 

You might think you're in a position to judge, but you're bloody well not; which is why i say wait and see what's gone wrong (if anything) at a more appropriate date than this.

[mrmojorisin75]

What if we sign four players tomorrow like? Yeah, we probably won't, but my point is - we don't have a fucking clue what's going on. It's funny how the press and suchlike can fuel such dramatic assumptions and paranoia "we're failing in the transfer market". Keegan's comments haven't encouraged me a huge amount today, but i have faith in him and the recruitment team to aquire the new personnel to provide us with further grounds to push on and get into Europe in the future.

 

Like i say, the fact of the matter is, it's all based on whatifs - we don't know what's happening so we've got no real grounds to pass comment on the policies. This all seems pretty obvious to me anyhow, i dunno.

 

I'll echo Kimbo's comments and say that we pose the question when the window's closed. Then we can point fingers and see what the hell's gone wrong (assuming of course that we don't have a successful window, which probably won't happen in my eyes).

 

haven't read past this yet but i have to clarify that you're saying the time to ask questions and point fingers is when nothing whatsoever can be done about it?  is that what you're saying?  that if we start the season with another severly depleted squad in terms of personnel & talent - THAT is the time to ask questions?

 

you can see that makes no sense right

 

i'm not saying that people like me offering opinions on this website could influence events or anything but people like you weren't willing to ask questions prior to the euros, now it's prior to the close of the window...how much grace does this guy get for buying "evil freddie" out?  do we wait january out too if he still doesn't fancy paying the asking price for good players? [i'm convinced this is what is going on by the way, behind the scenes, and no i have no 'evidence']

 

happy i'm not on death row and you lot were representing me, you'd wait til the lethal injection kicked in before opening the file to see if i was guilty

 

Well there you go, then.

 

We haven't got the first clue what's going on, and me making an 'asking questions' thread isn't going to make a blind bit of difference as to whether or not they change their (unknown) policies. If you've got your mind made up, purely through the agenda of certain newspapers and a generally slow transfer window, then you go for it. That's where you and i differ, and that's why our thought processes about it are different.

 

You might think you're in a position to judge, but you're bloody well not; which is why i say wait and see what's gone wrong (if anything) at a more appropriate date than this.

 

rant time: what the fuck are you doing on a football discussion forum?  what do they exist for if having an opinion about something is considered bad?

 

please help me out on that one...what are we supposed to do?  according to the high and mighty crowd you're in we can't believe a word the papers say (nothing to discuss there then), we can't criticise the club for a lack of transfer activity (nothing to discuss) & we cant have a view about ashley after one year in charge (nothing to discuss)

 

what's this leave us?  the next upcoming friendly?  design of the shirt?  other clubs shirts?  what? 

 

get a fucking grip - if you've ever actually read any of my posts you'll know i don't have a fixed view on the club at the moment but anyone with common sense should be worried right now; i'm more than willing to worship at the church of ashley but he's got some convincing to do

 

nothing, i repeat nothing, would give me greater pleasure than to see us sign collocini, then follow that up with another three quality players so i could shut the fuck up, but until that happens i'll continue with my criticisms as i would of FS

 

someone said it in another thread the bullshit being spouted on here is the same bullshit spouted every year and no-one ever learns - you say i believe i'm in a position to judge but i say you're equally as gullible to the press/media drivel that's spouted...i trust you're a "deals aren't that easy" merchant?  why not?  why do you believe they're hard?  because quotes in the papers tell you they are unless you have some inside knowledge?  do fill me in...

 

from my position as football fan i see that deals where the buying club is going to match the price/wage become very easy, deals where someone is looking for a bargain appear very hard...i was no rocket scientist so you do the math

 

we've got money (TV if nothing else), we need players more than most clubs...what's the big deal?  asked the question before but 30-40m TV money we get from sky, you think it's that hard to spend it on players do you?  reeeeeeeeeeally?

[thenige]

We can only get in who is avaliable and who wants to join our club for the right reasons. Although it may be easy to sign players on FM it's not so easy in real life. I suggest calming the fook down, reading everything in the press with a pinch of salt and enjoy pre-season.

 

Spouting off angry rubbish on an Internet forum isn't exactly the most productive thing to do in this case.

[mrmojorisin75]

We can only get in who is avaliable and who wants to join our club for the right reasons. Although it may be easy to sign players on FM it's not so easy in real life. I suggest calming the fook down, reading everything in the press with a pinch of salt and enjoy pre-season.

 

Spouting off angry rubbish on an Internet forum isn't exactly the most productive thing to do in this case.

 

oh for fucks sake

[Yorkie]

Calm down man. I'm not trying to slate your opinion or any of that rubbish, i've contributed to, and enjoyed, this forum for a long time and i'm not one to do that stuff like that. I'll disagree sure, but not disregard your right to an opinion.

 

All i said was that i don't think you have the grounds to be "convinced that Ashley won't meet players' valuations". If you think that then fine, but i just don't agree that you, or any of us, are in a position to judge on policy and agenda.

 

Like you just said, you'd be delighted if we got Coloccini and everyone else in tomorrow, which hypothetically we might. Hypothetically we might not, and sign no bugger else till the end of the window - the truth is we don't know so how can we tell? I'm not a merchant, or in any 'camp', or anything like that - well, tbf, i'm in the "don't know so wait and see" camp.

[mrmojorisin75]

Calm down man. I'm not trying to slate your opinion or any of that rubbish, i've contributed to, and enjoyed, this forum for a long time and i'm not one to do that stuff like that. I'll disagree sure, but not disregard your right to an opinion.

 

All i said was that i don't think you have the grounds to be "convinced that Ashley won't meet players' valuations". If you think that then fine, but i just don't agree that you, or any of us, are in a position to judge on policy and agenda.

 

Like you just said, you'd be delighted if we got Coloccini and everyone else in tomorrow, which hypothetically we might. Hypothetically we might not, and sign no bugger else till the end of the window - the truth is we don't know so how can we tell? I'm not a merchant, or in any 'camp', or anything like that - well, tbf, i'm in the "don't know so wait and see" camp.

 

sand in my vagina to be honest

[Yorkie]

[Dave]

Calm down man. I'm not trying to slate your opinion or any of that rubbish, i've contributed to, and enjoyed, this forum for a long time and i'm not one to do that stuff like that. I'll disagree sure, but not disregard your right to an opinion.

 

All i said was that i don't think you have the grounds to be "convinced that Ashley won't meet players' valuations". If you think that then fine, but i just don't agree that you, or any of us, are in a position to judge on policy and agenda.

 

Like you just said, you'd be delighted if we got Coloccini and everyone else in tomorrow, which hypothetically we might. Hypothetically we might not, and sign no bugger else till the end of the window - the truth is we don't know so how can we tell? I'm not a merchant, or in any 'camp', or anything like that - well, tbf, i'm in the "don't know so wait and see" camp.

 

sand in my vagina to be honest

 

You can't expect Yorkie to know what that means tbf.

[Yorkie]

I know what it means, i just don't really see what he means by it.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

irritable as fuck the day it would seem! (me)

 

anyway back to topic; we're both looking at the same situation and reading it different ways...i refuse to believe that we haven't identified an available player we want in the 6-7 months since kk & wise etc... arrived at the club

 

assuming we have we're either not willing to pay the fees/wages being quoted or are in the middle of a giant transfer logjam that once one deal goes through they'll all start (seems to be convential wisdom at the moment that one)

 

the former is the more likely to me personally, that's it really

[quayside]

 

irritable as f*** the day it would seem! (me)

 

anyway back to topic; we're both looking at the same situation and reading it different ways...i refuse to believe that we haven't identified an available player we want in the 6-7 months since kk & wise etc... arrived at the club

 

assuming we have we're either not willing to pay the fees/wages being quoted or are in the middle of a giant transfer logjam that once one deal goes through they'll all start (seems to be convential wisdom at the moment that one)

 

the former is the more likely to me personally, that's it really

 

 

There is  another possibility - the involvement of Wise, Jimenez and Vetere in the club's transfer structure isn't working.

[mrmojorisin75]

 

irritable as f*** the day it would seem! (me)

 

anyway back to topic; we're both looking at the same situation and reading it different ways...i refuse to believe that we haven't identified an available player we want in the 6-7 months since kk & wise etc... arrived at the club

 

assuming we have we're either not willing to pay the fees/wages being quoted or are in the middle of a giant transfer logjam that once one deal goes through they'll all start (seems to be convential wisdom at the moment that one)

 

the former is the more likely to me personally, that's it really

 

 

There is  another possibility - the involvement of Wise, Jimenez and Vetere in the club's transfer structure isn't working.

 

well, yeah, guess so...but then as yorkie says i know nothing about that so i can't comment apparently (kidding yorkie)

[Guest David Kelly]

Only 6 Clubs have made more signings.

Which is about how many clubs finished below us last season.

 

I think the big problem is we have had three or four absolutely awful seasons and so far we've achived very little in terms of putting that right.

The answer might be big names stars or it might be players like Gutherie who come through and surpass expectations (let's hope he does) but what I do know is we need more than we've got so far so who whoever's fault it is that they aren't here already needs to pull their finger out.

[madras]

i wouldn't be at all surprised if we had bids in for various players and the other clubs (and players themselves) are waiting to see what or if other bids come in. i'd reckon we also have bids tabled for some of our players and are sitting on them.

 

not much seems to be happening transfer wise anywhere but it will heat up.

[afar]

What if we sign four players tomorrow like? Yeah, we probably won't, but my point is - we don't have a f***ing clue what's going on. It's funny how the press and suchlike can fuel such dramatic assumptions and paranoia "we're failing in the transfer market". Keegan's comments haven't encouraged me a huge amount today, but i have faith in him and the recruitment team to aquire the new personnel to provide us with further grounds to push on and get into Europe in the future.

 

Like i say, the fact of the matter is, it's all based on whatifs - we don't know what's happening so we've got no real grounds to pass comment on the policies. This all seems pretty obvious to me anyhow, i dunno.

 

I'll echo Kimbo's comments and say that we pose the question when the window's closed. Then we can point fingers and see what the hell's gone wrong (assuming of course that we don't have a successful window, which probably won't happen in my eyes).

 

haven't read past this yet but i have to clarify that you're saying the time to ask questions and point fingers is when nothing whatsoever can be done about it?  is that what you're saying?  that if we start the season with another severly depleted squad in terms of personnel & talent - THAT is the time to ask questions?

 

you can see that makes no sense right

 

i'm not saying that people like me offering opinions on this website could influence events or anything but people like you weren't willing to ask questions prior to the euros, now it's prior to the close of the window...how much grace does this guy get for buying "evil freddie" out?  do we wait january out too if he still doesn't fancy paying the asking price for good players? [i'm convinced this is what is going on by the way, behind the scenes, and no i have no 'evidence']

 

happy i'm not on death row and you lot were representing me, you'd wait til the lethal injection kicked in before opening the file to see if i was guilty

 

Well there you go, then.

 

We haven't got the first clue what's going on, and me making an 'asking questions' thread isn't going to make a blind bit of difference as to whether or not they change their (unknown) policies. If you've got your mind made up, purely through the agenda of certain newspapers and a generally slow transfer window, then you go for it. That's where you and i differ, and that's why our thought processes about it are different.

 

You might think you're in a position to judge, but you're bloody well not; which is why i say wait and see what's gone wrong (if anything) at a more appropriate date than this.

 

rant time: what the f*** are you doing on a football discussion forum?  what do they exist for if having an opinion about something is considered bad?

 

please help me out on that one...what are we supposed to do?  according to the high and mighty crowd you're in we can't believe a word the papers say (nothing to discuss there then), we can't criticise the club for a lack of transfer activity (nothing to discuss) & we cant have a view about ashley after one year in charge (nothing to discuss)

 

what's this leave us?  the next upcoming friendly?  design of the shirt?  other clubs shirts?  what? 

 

get a f***ing grip - if you've ever actually read any of my posts you'll know i don't have a fixed view on the club at the moment but anyone with common sense should be worried right now; i'm more than willing to worship at the church of ashley but he's got some convincing to do

 

nothing, i repeat nothing, would give me greater pleasure than to see us sign collocini, then follow that up with another three quality players so i could shut the f*** up, but until that happens i'll continue with my criticisms as i would of FS

 

someone said it in another thread the bullshit being spouted on here is the same bullshit spouted every year and no-one ever learns - you say i believe i'm in a position to judge but i say you're equally as gullible to the press/media drivel that's spouted...i trust you're a "deals aren't that easy" merchant?  why not?  why do you believe they're hard?  because quotes in the papers tell you they are unless you have some inside knowledge?  do fill me in...

 

from my position as football fan i see that deals where the buying club is going to match the price/wage become very easy, deals where someone is looking for a bargain appear very hard...i was no rocket scientist so you do the math

 

we've got money (TV if nothing else), we need players more than most clubs...what's the big deal?  asked the question before but 30-40m TV money we get from sky, you think it's that hard to spend it on players do you?  reeeeeeeeeeally?

 

Two top, top posts in a row there. Man you're on form this morning MrM

 

Naturally I completely agree.

[Dave]

I love how everyone keeps bringing up the extra money from Sky.

 

Er, everyone's got it. So it's even more telling that hardly any other club has done major business, and it doesn't help Liverpool buy Barry one jot anyway.

[relámpago blanco]

I love how everyone keeps bringing up the extra money from Sky.

 

Er, everyone's got it. So it's even more telling that hardly any other club has done major business, and it doesn't help Liverpool buy Barry one jot anyway.

If all teams become richer it just measn the players are more valuable as to attain more money you need to do well, therefore the players financial worth is more as a Torres, for example has the potential to turn a top 5 side into a top 4 side with his goals.  This is worth more money therefore the players are more valuable.

[Guest sicko2ndbest]

I love how everyone keeps bringing up the extra money from Sky.

 

Er, everyone's got it. So it's even more telling that hardly any other club has done major business, and it doesn't help Liverpool buy Barry one jot anyway.

If all teams become richer it just measn the players are more valuable as to attain more money you need to do well, therefore the players financial worth is more as a Torres, for example has the potential to turn a top 5 side into a top 4 side with his goals.  This is worth more money therefore the players are more valuable.

 

oi monkey boy get me off your sig 

[afar]

I love how everyone keeps bringing up the extra money from Sky.

 

Er, everyone's got it. So it's even more telling that hardly any other club has done major business, and it doesn't help Liverpool buy Barry one jot anyway.

 

I'm not sure you are getting the point here Dave. The guys saying this are suggesting that the extra money is not being invested in the playing squad and we should really at minimum expect this. TBH the facts back them up 100%, our net spend on trasnfers has been pretty has been paultry. I really don't see the relevance in you pointing out that Wigan Athletic got the same amount of money as us ??

 

And yes there has been plenty of business so far, from teams who need a hell of a lot more work than us.

[Guest neesy111]

I love how everyone keeps bringing up the extra money from Sky.

 

Er, everyone's got it. So it's even more telling that hardly any other club has done major business, and it doesn't help Liverpool buy Barry one jot anyway.

 

I'm not sure you are getting the point here Dave. The guys saying this are suggesting that the extra money is not being invested in the playing squad and we should really at minimum expect this. TBH the facts back them up 100%, our net spend on trasnfers has been pretty has been paultry. I really don't see the relevance in you pointing out that Wigan Athletic got the same amount of money as us ??

 

And yes there has been plenty of business so far, from teams who need a hell of a lot more work than us.

 

the problem is, the club has been losing 10 million + for the last few seasons all down to the wage bill which spiralled out of control

[Guest elbee909]

I love how everyone keeps bringing up the extra money from Sky.

 

Er, everyone's got it. So it's even more telling that hardly any other club has done major business, and it doesn't help Liverpool buy Barry one jot anyway.

 

I'm not sure you are getting the point here Dave. The guys saying this are suggesting that the extra money is not being invested in the playing squad and we should really at minimum expect this. TBH the facts back them up 100%, our net spend on trasnfers has been pretty has been paultry. I really don't see the relevance in you pointing out that Wigan Athletic got the same amount of money as us ??

 

And yes there has been plenty of business so far, from teams who need a hell of a lot more work than us.

 

Inflation of player prices.  That's the relevance.  Increase the supply of money and the prices go up.  Unfortunately the quality of the footballers isn't intrinsically linked to their transfer value.

[afar]

Can you point me in the direction of the accounts that back up your statement please ?

 

Even if that is true, then Ashley should have been aware of it when he bought the club out. When he bought it he took on the debt, his debt. The club accroding to those that support Ashley is debt free now, apparently. So how is this previous debt relevant to him not spending the money the club has generated itself ?

 

Ashley would never have bought the club had the wages to turnover rate been as unmanigable as you suggest, he's too smart of a businessman to make that mistake.

 

Edit: For clarification, I was responding to nessy's post BTW

 

[afar]

I love how everyone keeps bringing up the extra money from Sky.

 

Er, everyone's got it. So it's even more telling that hardly any other club has done major business, and it doesn't help Liverpool buy Barry one jot anyway.

 

I'm not sure you are getting the point here Dave. The guys saying this are suggesting that the extra money is not being invested in the playing squad and we should really at minimum expect this. TBH the facts back them up 100%, our net spend on trasnfers has been pretty has been paultry. I really don't see the relevance in you pointing out that Wigan Athletic got the same amount of money as us ??

 

And yes there has been plenty of business so far, from teams who need a hell of a lot more work than us.

 

Inflation of player prices.  That's the relevance.  Increase the supply of money and the prices go up.  Unfortunately the quality of the footballers isn't intrinsically linked to their transfer value.

 

That still does not explain the relevance that Fulham have been given 50m and we have been given 50m, so that excuses Ashley from spending the money this money accrued by the club through TV deals ??

[thenige]

What does excuse Ashley spending the £50m we and Fulham apparantly have is we have a wage bill which is probably four times the size of theirs. Likewise as people have said, we were heavily in debt which Ashley paid off, so it's only fair if he chooses so to take some of that money to replace the money he 'lost' paying off our debts.

 

He's under no obligation to splash money aimlessly, already we have a squad which is competitive to the upper etchelons of the league, yes we need the odd player but how else are our youth players ever going to get the chance to come through if we go out and sign 3-4 average squad players to stand in their way?

 

I'd rather have one or two years of relative averageness whilst the team is rebuilt rather than spending loads, having one have decent season then going into a relative freefall when we realise we're pretty much broke and all our players have got the 30+ stage. Just so a little bit of bloody patience - if you don't like it, don't go to matches and stop supporting the club - but if you've been through the Shepherd and Souness era then you'd be mental to quit now just when we have the opportunity to turn this club around.