The Keegan Appreciation Thread

[indi]

the situation reminds me a hell of a lot of Robson's last months in charge, with the chairman undermining him, trying to sell players behind his back, making bids for players without his consent, sabotaging bids for first choice players, restricting funds, messing with the coaching, and generally siphoning away power from the manager.

 

saying you are angry at KK for this is like saying you are angry at Robson for the situation a few years ago. There's not a great deal Robson could've done then, Shepherd had gradually expanded his power base on the back of Robson's success, buying up NTL shares, incrimentally increasing his share holding, getting rid of other executives, employing family and friends and generally running more and more things from his office. Robson loved the club so he worked away diligently without complaining, that's his style. but then out of the blue he was sacked and the club entered a decline from which it has still not recovered.

 

Keegan is a different character to Robson and works in different ways, but like him loves the club & is a top class manager. But what is the same is that he was facing similar pressures. These pressures - problems, issues, whatever you want to call them - came to a head at the end of the transfer window, ultimately resulting in today's media frenzy. Keegan has a track record in forcing these issues, working them to his - and the club's - benefit. he did this in his first spell as manager, once threatening to resign early on in his reign. this forced the hand of the Halls and as a result we went on one of the greatest footballing spells in our history. He's tried to do the same today if you ask me. Being angry at him for doing this is missing the point on an epic scale - it is looking at the action that is a result of underlying issues, and ignoring the underlying issues themselves. it is a superficial reading of the situation and even worse a kneejerk reaction against a man who has done so much for our club and has a chance to do so much more in the next few years.

 

the argument seems to be "if Keegan was unhappy, why lie and pretend everything was ok?" yet also bashing him for confronting the issues head-on. well in that case he can't win. and it is a bit simple to call it 'lying' when he is trying to work through the problems with the transfer window still open. that's called doing your job. while there was still a chance to make the required improvement to the playing staff that had to come first. but with the window shutting, and recent developments regarding keegan's primacy on transfer matters rising to a head on the last night (re barton in particular) it seems Keegan was pushed to a confrontation.

 

it is up to Ashley, a chairman who has, let's face it, done little for the club since he came here, to sort this mess out. if it means a couple of staff like Jiminez and Llambias leave, then that's the way it has to be in order to back the manager. successful bosses mould clubs in their image, Fergie, Wenger, Clough, the liverpool boot room tradition. they don't let property agents decide the future of the club on the back of signing a winger from Mallorca for less than his market value. something that seems to have blinded a number of our fans (ie backing jiminez and vetere over Keegn cos Jonas looks canny after 3 games.)

 

You don't need to lecture me on the history, I was there as well I lived through that and remember it well.

 

If Keegan is doing that then he's playing brinkmanship with the future of the club and on this occasion he's got it wrong, from what I can see anyway. I'm going to bed now but I'll give a proper response sometime tomorrow.

 

A couple of things before that though; Ashley is not the Chairman, he's the owner and paying off £250m of debt isn't doing nothing. Also, why would he bring Keegan in and immediately start to undermine him? It's much more likely that Keegan was told what the situation was going to be like and has just discovered he can't actually handle it in real life.

 

As I said, I'm annoyed at Keegan for letting this get out of hand. I think that it's pretty undeniable that that's what's happened, when that became obvious he should have made a statement to calm things down, why still no statement from him? Also, if all that stuff that you've said is true, then I'm guessing you're not a club insider so you must have got it from the papers, how did it get there? Do you think it'd have come from the Ashley "side"? No, me neither. So Keegan or someone acting on his behalf has been leaking things to the papers, stuff that has damaged the club and lead us to the situation we find ourself in today, otherwise known as "the s***". Is that the right way to go about things? I don't think it is, and that's why I'm pissed at KK.

 

Whatever the situation Keegan is not blameless in all this and for the blind amongst us I can reliably inform you that the sun does not in actual fact shine from between his arse cheeks.

thats a fantastic post. you should reproduce it elsewhere. if not could i post it saying i found it on another forum ?

 

I'm not falling for that one again.

[DJ_NUFC]

okay kids...let's all agree on one thing and sing it together now: keegan & ashley are boooooth to blame.

[indi]

not sure how to respond to that, but let's face it you have made the figure of £250m up. howay man, that's a bit laughable. 

 

Apologies, I've just checked my info and I should have said "over £100m", my mistake.

 

Very reliable source, others will back me up about that.

[ChezGiven]

not sure how to respond to that, but let's face it you have made the figure of £250m up. howay man, that's a bit laughable. 

I wondered why my financial radar was twitching.

 

The main point i'd disagree with Indi over is the impact of today on how the sellable the club is. KK hasnt damaged that at all, Man city were in turmoil a week ago with a human rights abuser in hiding from international authorities. This sort of shit is irrelevant to the price of the club.

[Guest optimistic nit]

not sure how to respond to that, but let's face it you have made the figure of £250m up. howay man, that's a bit laughable. 

I wondered why my financial radar was twitching.

 

The main point i'd disagree with Indi over is the impact of today on how the sellable the club is. KK hasnt damaged that at all, Man city were in turmoil a week ago with a human rights abuser in hiding from international authorities. This sort of shit is irrelevant to the price of the club.

 

i'd say your right there, although the fans may have damaged it a bit.

 

 

the 250mill figure is the amount ashley spent on the toon, debt and the money that went to shareholders.

[Mick]

it was widely known that the debt would have to be paid off due to agreements shepherd had with the lenders. therefore it's part of the process of acquiring the club. it's also an investment that increases the value of the club. and it is not even certain that the debt has been paid off or if it has been shifted elsewhere with more favourable lenders that Ashley already has a rapport with. regardless the vast majority of the debt was structured to be long-term, was for the stadium expansion, and set against future season ticket sales. when companies have debts like these it is often because it is from investing in infastructure or something else which improves your revenue. this debt was no different.

 

then you have to look at how this has helped the club, if it has at all, which is the specific point made. before Ashley the debt payments were £6m a year, hardly a crippling figure. so the benefit of not paying debt is £6m more for the running of the club, for wages, for transfers. Have we seen any of this ploughed back into the club? if we haven't, then removing the debt has not given us any benefit. where has this extra money gone? has ashley been creaming it off or something? the only benefit of the debt then is if Ashley sells, but of course if he sells, he's making that money back, and can hardly be accused of doing something in our favour if he wants rid now, can he? equally premier league investors are becoming richer so the debt would probably be even less of an issue in the future.

 

so then to work out if removing the debt has been to our immediate favour you must look at sheer numbers and the club have spent virtually nothing in net terms since Ashley's came in, something like £4m over 2 years. then you must look at the wider context that Premiership club revenues have rocketed, our tv income in particular has risen by £18m. where has this money gone?

 

but i digress, the important point here is that Ashley is a total ledge, wears a replica shirt and downs half-pints. brilliant!

 

You do know that the club was making a loss and still had £25 million outstanding from past transfers, don't you?

[Mick]

 

Apologies, I've just checked my info and I should have said "over £100m", my mistake.

 

Very reliable source, others will back me up about that.

 

It was over £100 million.

[Guest optimistic nit]

we made a loss of 7.2million iirc last time these things were announced, but of course ashley is only in it for the money and doesn't care about the club. (random geordie mong on tv).

[indi]

not sure how to respond to that, but let's face it you have made the figure of £250m up. howay man, that's a bit laughable. 

I wondered why my financial radar was twitching.

 

The main point i'd disagree with Indi over is the impact of today on how the sellable the club is. KK hasnt damaged that at all, Man city were in turmoil a week ago with a human rights abuser in hiding from international authorities. This sort of shit is irrelevant to the price of the club.

 

You don't think that the sight of people burning banners outside the ground and chanting sack the board and stuff about him being a fat bastard won't have put other potential owners off? We've already got a reputation as a volatile fan-base with unrealistic expectations and that's hardly going to help is it. Also, what if it's simply reduced the value of the club to a point where Ashley won't sell, that's the worst case scenario: a disinterested owner, but one who doesn't want to sell either and thinks fuck it I gave it my best shot and this is all the thanks I get, I may as well bleed them dry if this is how it's going to be. We're in danger of making our own worst nightmares come true.

[johnnypd]

it was widely known that the debt would have to be paid off due to agreements shepherd had with the lenders. therefore it's part of the process of acquiring the club. it's also an investment that increases the value of the club. and it is not even certain that the debt has been paid off or if it has been shifted elsewhere with more favourable lenders that Ashley already has a rapport with. regardless the vast majority of the debt was structured to be long-term, was for the stadium expansion, and set against future season ticket sales. when companies have debts like these it is often because it is from investing in infastructure or something else which improves your revenue. this debt was no different.

 

then you have to look at how this has helped the club, if it has at all, which is the specific point made. before Ashley the debt payments were £6m a year, hardly a crippling figure. so the benefit of not paying debt is £6m more for the running of the club, for wages, for transfers. Have we seen any of this ploughed back into the club? if we haven't, then removing the debt has not given us any benefit. where has this extra money gone? has ashley been creaming it off or something? the only benefit of the debt then is if Ashley sells, but of course if he sells, he's making that money back, and can hardly be accused of doing something in our favour if he wants rid now, can he? equally premier league investors are becoming richer so the debt would probably be even less of an issue in the future.

 

so then to work out if removing the debt has been to our immediate favour you must look at sheer numbers and the club have spent virtually nothing in net terms since Ashley's came in, something like £4m over 2 years. then you must look at the wider context that Premiership club revenues have rocketed, our tv income in particular has risen by £18m. where has this money gone?

 

but i digress, the important point here is that Ashley is a total ledge, wears a replica shirt and downs half-pints. brilliant!

 

You do know that the club was making a loss and still had £25 million outstanding from past transfers, don't you?

 

the club was making a loss of £300,000 annually (before player trading and amortisation) according to the last set of accounts.

[johnnypd]

not sure how to respond to that, but let's face it you have made the figure of £250m up. howay man, that's a bit laughable. 

I wondered why my financial radar was twitching.

 

The main point i'd disagree with Indi over is the impact of today on how the sellable the club is. KK hasnt damaged that at all, Man city were in turmoil a week ago with a human rights abuser in hiding from international authorities. This sort of shit is irrelevant to the price of the club.

 

if anything having a club in 'turmoil' as man city were, simply makes it a more attractive proposition as buyers think they may get a deal. it certainly alerts the vultures like those in the middle east who are looking at the premiership.

[Mick]

 

the club was making a loss of £300,000 annually (before player trading and amortisation) according to the last set of accounts.

 

Have you got a link to that?

 

In 2007 we made a loss of £32 million.

[Baggio]

I'm not sure what Keegan's done since he's came back to deserve an appreciation thread tbh.

 

Failed to beat anyone from the top 10, lied to the fans in the press and made the club look like a pantomime with his tantrums.

[cosmic]

The more I think about what's happened today the more angry I feel towards KK. That may be sacrilege to many people, but the lack of any comment from him has really damaged the club, if he thinks that letting this situation carry on like it is is in the best interests of the club then he's seriously mistaken. He needs to come out and say something, he should have said something to calm the situation. What's happened today could have serious ramifications for the club's long-term future. We could quite possibly end up with no manager, an owner who's position is untenable and a club that is unsellable too. Whoever's left running our club when the dust settles is going to have to do a hell of a lot of work just to get us back to the position we were in yesterday, let alone take us forward from that. If that's Ashley and Keegan then it'll be hard enough. If it's just Ashley then what's he going to do to get the fans back on side, why would he even care about doing that after what's gone on today? If it's just Keegan then where does that leave the ownership of the club? A huge amunt of damage has been done to NUFC today and there are many many people at fault for that, Ashley, Keegan, the "fans" and don't even get me started on the media!! Those fuckers have got exactly what they wanted today, they could well have destroyed our football club, for f***'s sake!!

 

I'm seriously pissed off with the following people:

 

The media: for recklessly deliberately reporting rumours as fact and whipping up the braindead mongs amongst our support to the extent that they were as good rioting outside the ground. You vicious arseholes.

 

The "fans": for being so unbelievably f***ing stupid as to swallow everything and anything they read in the tabloids or see on Sky Sports as fact without any kind of thought whatsoever. For f***'s sake you stupid f***ing c***s!!

 

KK: If you really loved the club you'd have never let it get to this, is this really about what's best for the club or is it more about your own ego and your need to control everything? If things were this bad, why haven't you been honest about it? That's what you're supposed to be renowned for. Why have you been saying one thing in public and another in private? Why have you been leaking negative stuff to the press and saying positive stuff through the official channels? Think about it, if all along the press have been right then where'd they get there information from? If they've been making it all up then what the f***'s going on now and why hasn't Keegan said anything today when all that s***'s kicking off outside the ground? What are you doing Kev, you're supposed to love this club, what are you playing at?

 

Ashley and the club: I'm pissed off with you lot and all, I don't know what for yet, but there must be something you could have done to stop this from happening.

 

f*** this, I'm off to bed. This has been a terrible day and weirdly I've only just realised it.

 

What do you expect Keegan to come out and say? That the Board has undermined him and kicked him around? Wouldn't that be more damaging to the club as a whole?

 

If indeed there has been 2 heated days of arguments, emotions will be highly charged and its not good for anyone to make public comments or face the press or it may just blow up further.

 

And finally, did you consider that Keegan could be keeping his silence on this as he has been instructed not to comment further until the Board decides what they want to do next?

[Guest toonnz]

I have supported the club for over 50 years, the best times by far are the Keegan years, 82-84 as a player, and 92-97 as a  manager.

Nothing and no one have ever come close to the excitment and passion of those times.

The man is a legend.

[Stu]

[themanupstairs]

Howay lads...... pull yourselves together.

 

We still dont know what happened, they way this forums been today, you'd think the bloke could walk across the pond in Leazes Park.

 

I for one have had enough of nuggets outside SJP with banners, old clips of 'that' rant and slow motion vids of geordies biting their nails in epic games.

 

Whats happened?  Have we turned scouse?

 

 

Look forward, its the only way we can go!

 

top post!! i'm with you mate! quit sobbing you softshites and look ahead. no man should get more than what they deserve. not keegan, not shearer, not ashley, not SJH, no one. This is a football club, and everything that goes on is just part of its history.

[Guest Synthespian]

I'm with KK, but I bet there's something more behind this story.

[indi]

The more I think about what's happened today the more angry I feel towards KK. That may be sacrilege to many people, but the lack of any comment from him has really damaged the club, if he thinks that letting this situation carry on like it is is in the best interests of the club then he's seriously mistaken. He needs to come out and say something, he should have said something to calm the situation. What's happened today could have serious ramifications for the club's long-term future. We could quite possibly end up with no manager, an owner who's position is untenable and a club that is unsellable too. Whoever's left running our club when the dust settles is going to have to do a hell of a lot of work just to get us back to the position we were in yesterday, let alone take us forward from that. If that's Ashley and Keegan then it'll be hard enough. If it's just Ashley then what's he going to do to get the fans back on side, why would he even care about doing that after what's gone on today? If it's just Keegan then where does that leave the ownership of the club? A huge amunt of damage has been done to NUFC today and there are many many people at fault for that, Ashley, Keegan, the "fans" and don't even get me started on the media!! Those fuckers have got exactly what they wanted today, they could well have destroyed our football club, for f***'s sake!!

 

I'm seriously pissed off with the following people:

 

The media: for recklessly deliberately reporting rumours as fact and whipping up the braindead mongs amongst our support to the extent that they were as good rioting outside the ground. You vicious arseholes.

 

The "fans": for being so unbelievably f***ing stupid as to swallow everything and anything they read in the tabloids or see on Sky Sports as fact without any kind of thought whatsoever. For f***'s sake you stupid f***ing c***s!!

 

KK: If you really loved the club you'd have never let it get to this, is this really about what's best for the club or is it more about your own ego and your need to control everything? If things were this bad, why haven't you been honest about it? That's what you're supposed to be renowned for. Why have you been saying one thing in public and another in private? Why have you been leaking negative stuff to the press and saying positive stuff through the official channels? Think about it, if all along the press have been right then where'd they get there information from? If they've been making it all up then what the f***'s going on now and why hasn't Keegan said anything today when all that s***'s kicking off outside the ground? What are you doing Kev, you're supposed to love this club, what are you playing at?

 

Ashley and the club: I'm pissed off with you lot and all, I don't know what for yet, but there must be something you could have done to stop this from happening.

 

f*** this, I'm off to bed. This has been a terrible day and weirdly I've only just realised it.

 

What do you expect Keegan to come out and say? That the Board has undermined him and kicked him around? Wouldn't that be more damaging to the club as a whole?

 

If indeed there has been 2 heated days of arguments, emotions will be highly charged and its not good for anyone to make public comments or face the press or it may just blow up further.

 

And finally, did you consider that Keegan could be keeping his silence on this as he has been instructed not to comment further until the Board decides what they want to do next?

 

How about a simple "Calm down lads, myself and the board are talking about things and we'll let you know what's going on once things have been decided. In the mean time stop acting like fucking mongs and go home!!" How about that?

[indi]

not sure how to respond to that, but let's face it you have made the figure of £250m up. howay man, that's a bit laughable.

I wondered why my financial radar was twitching.

 

The main point i'd disagree with Indi over is the impact of today on how the sellable the club is. KK hasnt damaged that at all, Man city were in turmoil a week ago with a human rights abuser in hiding from international authorities. This sort of shit is irrelevant to the price of the club.

 

if anything having a club in 'turmoil' as man city were, simply makes it a more attractive proposition as buyers think they may get a deal. it certainly alerts the vultures like those in the middle east who are looking at the premiership.

 

Only if they think they can ride in on a white horse and become everyone's hero. A significant proportion of our fans have shown that they couldn't give a shit about what some outsider does, they're only interested in worshipping at the feet of their sacred cow. Imagine the kind of songs that would have been sung if we'd had foreign owners!?!

 

It seems that there's two individuals who are a lot bigger than the club in many people's eyes, our current manager and our former captain. They can never be criticised because they never do anything wrong, they bleed black and white and whatever they want must be what's in the best interests of the club because they are the club, apparently.

[Guest BeatMakerz]

This isn't over, Keegan talking to his guys,Newcastle's board talking amongst themselves,Sounds like they're all gonna go to war over this,KK has clearly been side swiped so he isn't going to be on the best of terms with X, whoever the hell he has a problem with I don't know,So many clowns running the show at NUFC it's hard to tell. 

[Colos Short and Curlies]

 

the club was making a loss of £300,000 annually (before player trading and amortisation) according to the last set of accounts.

 

Have you got a link to that?

 

In 2007 we made a loss of £32 million.

 

That would have been after player trading etc.

 

Basically the £300,000 loss = no money available to finance transfers without taking on debt or selling players.

 

The £32m is kinda irrelevant as its paper losses based on past buying