Keegans List: Henry, Ronaldinho & Lampard?!

[TRon]

i wonder what this "source close to the board" thinks about keegan's onfield managerial ability. pity he didn't give us an appraisal of this.

 

I don't think there was a problem with Keegan's on field coaching and motivating. The conflict arose because KK wanted more say on transfer matters, and it's a fair point that he had little knowledge of emerging talent or the world transfer market. Deep down everyone knows that.

 

Isn't that what scouts are for? Seems like, as usual on here, there's black and white and nothing in the middle.

 

a) Keegan has players signed for him and likes it

 

or b) Keegan has to have an in-depth knowledge of every player in the world and spend his spare days jetting off to watch a Bolivian second division game.

 

Can't I have c) he's a normal manager who has scouts like every other manager in the world (apart from these really successful continental ones who keep getting their arses handed to them by English clubs with English systems)?

 

For c) Keegan would have to be happy with what his scouts were reporting and recommending. If that was the case why would there have been a problem in the first place? Keegan wanted players from his own list to be bought, and i doubt they included Xisco, Jonas, Nacho whats-is-face etc.

[greydos]

This may be speculation rather than inside knowledge. Keegan's previous success was based on big money signings rather than bringing through young players. Someone who's not watched a game in three years isn't going to know much about the emerging talent abroad.

 

KK had a 3 year contract.

 

He was charged with the task of finishing off unfinished business by winning us a trophy in that period.

 

A squad of promising players is very unlikely to win you a trophy.

 

Like everything, there needs balance. KK was right to target more established players. The Board were wrong to take control over who came in.

[Guest northwestmag1892]

Sure it's already been said but Ashley, Labia(?) and Wise have chosen their time when a home game is still 9 days away. Plenty of time now to flood the press with anti KK stuff yet they were hiding over the past 3 days. Cnuts.

[Kitman]

i wonder what this "source close to the board" thinks about keegan's onfield managerial ability. pity he didn't give us an appraisal of this.

 

I don't think there was a problem with Keegan's on field coaching and motivating. The conflict arose because KK wanted more say on transfer matters, and it's a fair point that he had little knowledge of emerging talent or the world transfer market. Deep down everyone knows that.

 

Isn't that what scouts are for? Seems like, as usual on here, there's black and white and nothing in the middle.

 

a) Keegan has players signed for him and likes it

 

or b) Keegan has to have an in-depth knowledge of every player in the world and spend his spare days jetting off to watch a Bolivian second division game.

 

Can't I have c) he's a normal manager who has scouts like every other manager in the world (apart from these really successful continental ones who keep getting their arses handed to them by English clubs with English systems)?

 

For c) Keegan would have to be happy with what his scouts were reporting and recommending. If that was the case why would there have been a problem in the first place? Keegan wanted players from his own list to be bought, and i doubt they included Xisco, Jonas, Nacho whats-is-face etc.

 

That's not what Keegan said, is it?  He said he didn't want players forced on him ie he'd had no input into their signing

[Optimistic Nut]

i wonder what this "source close to the board" thinks about keegan's onfield managerial ability. pity he didn't give us an appraisal of this.

 

I don't think there was a problem with Keegan's on field coaching and motivating. The conflict arose because KK wanted more say on transfer matters, and it's a fair point that he had little knowledge of emerging talent or the world transfer market. Deep down everyone knows that.

 

Isn't that what scouts are for? Seems like, as usual on here, there's black and white and nothing in the middle.

 

a) Keegan has players signed for him and likes it

 

or b) Keegan has to have an in-depth knowledge of every player in the world and spend his spare days jetting off to watch a Bolivian second division game.

 

Can't I have c) he's a normal manager who has scouts like every other manager in the world (apart from these really successful continental ones who keep getting their arses handed to them by English clubs with English systems)?

 

For c) Keegan would have to be happy with what his scouts were reporting and recommending. If that was the case why would there have been a problem in the first place? Keegan wanted players from his own list to be bought, and i doubt they included Xisco, Jonas, Nacho whats-is-face etc.

 

That's not what Keegan said, is it?  He said he didn't want players forced on him ie he'd had no input into their signing

 

I made the point earlier, would he have walked had Wise gave him Robinho instead of Xisco on Deadline Day?

[Wullie]

i wonder what this "source close to the board" thinks about keegan's onfield managerial ability. pity he didn't give us an appraisal of this.

 

I don't think there was a problem with Keegan's on field coaching and motivating. The conflict arose because KK wanted more say on transfer matters, and it's a fair point that he had little knowledge of emerging talent or the world transfer market. Deep down everyone knows that.

 

Isn't that what scouts are for? Seems like, as usual on here, there's black and white and nothing in the middle.

 

a) Keegan has players signed for him and likes it

 

or b) Keegan has to have an in-depth knowledge of every player in the world and spend his spare days jetting off to watch a Bolivian second division game.

 

Can't I have c) he's a normal manager who has scouts like every other manager in the world (apart from these really successful continental ones who keep getting their arses handed to them by English clubs with English systems)?

 

For c) Keegan would have to be happy with what his scouts were reporting and recommending. If that was the case why would there have been a problem in the first place? Keegan wanted players from his own list to be bought, and i doubt they included Xisco, Jonas, Nacho whats-is-face etc.

 

He was happy with them when he was getting to oversee the deals and not having them signed when he specifically does not want them. Is that so difficult to grasp?

 

Keegan on Jonas:

"Jonas is definitely the sort of player who can excite the fans. I think they will love him for a lot of reasons.

 

But the main thing, apart from his pace, is that whoever plays up front will like him because he is a supplier of goals.

 

“Daniel Guiza, the guy who has just gone to Fenerbahce from Mallorca, won the Golden Boot in Spain and that means he scored more goals than anyone else at the likes of Real Madrid.

 

“A key part of that was Jonas and the crosses that he provided, and we’ve got that now.

 

“There’s a lot of competition for those two wide places because he can play right or left, they’re his two best positions.

 

“Jonas is the real deal. He’s not just somebody who has come and you think he’s a bit of a chancer.

 

“He is proven and I think our supporters will like him.

 

“But that’s for him to decide by his performances and them for how they appreciate it.”

 

Aye he sounds gutted to have him.

 

Again, we come back to a) or b) and no c) in the middle: just because KK didn't want players signed and sold behind his back doesn't NECESSARILY mean that he hates Jonas and Colo and wants to kick fuck out of the pair of them.

[Spider Jerusalem]

i wonder what this "source close to the board" thinks about keegan's onfield managerial ability. pity he didn't give us an appraisal of this.

 

I don't think there was a problem with Keegan's on field coaching and motivating. The conflict arose because KK wanted more say on transfer matters, and it's a fair point that he had little knowledge of emerging talent or the world transfer market. Deep down everyone knows that.

 

Isn't that what scouts are for? Seems like, as usual on here, there's black and white and nothing in the middle.

 

a) Keegan has players signed for him and likes it

 

or b) Keegan has to have an in-depth knowledge of every player in the world and spend his spare days jetting off to watch a Bolivian second division game.

 

Can't I have c) he's a normal manager who has scouts like every other manager in the world (apart from these really successful continental ones who keep getting their arses handed to them by English clubs with English systems)?

 

For c) Keegan would have to be happy with what his scouts were reporting and recommending. If that was the case why would there have been a problem in the first place? Keegan wanted players from his own list to be bought, and i doubt they included Xisco, Jonas, Nacho whats-is-face etc.

 

That's not what Keegan said, is it?  He said he didn't want players forced on him ie he'd had no input into their signing

 

I made the point earlier, would he have walked had Wise gave him Robinho instead of Xisco on Deadline Day?

 

But Milner's sale didn't bring in 37 million so that isn't really debateable 

[TRon]

i wonder what this "source close to the board" thinks about keegan's onfield managerial ability. pity he didn't give us an appraisal of this.

 

I don't think there was a problem with Keegan's on field coaching and motivating. The conflict arose because KK wanted more say on transfer matters, and it's a fair point that he had little knowledge of emerging talent or the world transfer market. Deep down everyone knows that.

 

Isn't that what scouts are for? Seems like, as usual on here, there's black and white and nothing in the middle.

 

a) Keegan has players signed for him and likes it

 

or b) Keegan has to have an in-depth knowledge of every player in the world and spend his spare days jetting off to watch a Bolivian second division game.

 

Can't I have c) he's a normal manager who has scouts like every other manager in the world (apart from these really successful continental ones who keep getting their arses handed to them by English clubs with English systems)?

 

For c) Keegan would have to be happy with what his scouts were reporting and recommending. If that was the case why would there have been a problem in the first place? Keegan wanted players from his own list to be bought, and i doubt they included Xisco, Jonas, Nacho whats-is-face etc.

 

That's not what Keegan said, is it?  He said he didn't want players forced on him ie he'd had no input into their signing

 

I think he had his ideas of who to sign, and Wise and Jiminez had theirs. Obviously KK's wish list wasn't given priority, so that's why he resigned.

[KaKa]

So we all believe Keegan was clued up enough to bring the types of players that were stipulated from the outset?

 

I think he struggled to do so tbh. Maybe not to the extent as claimed, although I do think he wanted to try for Henry and Ronaldinho , as they were made available this summer.

[Kitman]

i wonder what this "source close to the board" thinks about keegan's onfield managerial ability. pity he didn't give us an appraisal of this.

 

I don't think there was a problem with Keegan's on field coaching and motivating. The conflict arose because KK wanted more say on transfer matters, and it's a fair point that he had little knowledge of emerging talent or the world transfer market. Deep down everyone knows that.

 

Isn't that what scouts are for? Seems like, as usual on here, there's black and white and nothing in the middle.

 

a) Keegan has players signed for him and likes it

 

or b) Keegan has to have an in-depth knowledge of every player in the world and spend his spare days jetting off to watch a Bolivian second division game.

 

Can't I have c) he's a normal manager who has scouts like every other manager in the world (apart from these really successful continental ones who keep getting their arses handed to them by English clubs with English systems)?

 

For c) Keegan would have to be happy with what his scouts were reporting and recommending. If that was the case why would there have been a problem in the first place? Keegan wanted players from his own list to be bought, and i doubt they included Xisco, Jonas, Nacho whats-is-face etc.

 

That's not what Keegan said, is it?  He said he didn't want players forced on him ie he'd had no input into their signing

 

I think he had his ideas of who to sign, and Wise and Jiminez had theirs. Obviously KK's wish list wasn't given priority, so that's why he resigned.

 

We'll have to disagree on that, I think it wasn't about lists but about control

[TRon]

i wonder what this "source close to the board" thinks about keegan's onfield managerial ability. pity he didn't give us an appraisal of this.

 

I don't think there was a problem with Keegan's on field coaching and motivating. The conflict arose because KK wanted more say on transfer matters, and it's a fair point that he had little knowledge of emerging talent or the world transfer market. Deep down everyone knows that.

 

Isn't that what scouts are for? Seems like, as usual on here, there's black and white and nothing in the middle.

 

a) Keegan has players signed for him and likes it

 

or b) Keegan has to have an in-depth knowledge of every player in the world and spend his spare days jetting off to watch a Bolivian second division game.

 

Can't I have c) he's a normal manager who has scouts like every other manager in the world (apart from these really successful continental ones who keep getting their arses handed to them by English clubs with English systems)?

 

For c) Keegan would have to be happy with what his scouts were reporting and recommending. If that was the case why would there have been a problem in the first place? Keegan wanted players from his own list to be bought, and i doubt they included Xisco, Jonas, Nacho whats-is-face etc.

 

He was happy with them when he was getting to oversee the deals and not having them signed when he specifically does not want them. Is that so difficult to grasp?

 

Keegan on Jonas:

"Jonas is definitely the sort of player who can excite the fans. I think they will love him for a lot of reasons.

 

But the main thing, apart from his pace, is that whoever plays up front will like him because he is a supplier of goals.

 

“Daniel Guiza, the guy who has just gone to Fenerbahce from Mallorca, won the Golden Boot in Spain and that means he scored more goals than anyone else at the likes of Real Madrid.

 

“A key part of that was Jonas and the crosses that he provided, and we’ve got that now.

 

“There’s a lot of competition for those two wide places because he can play right or left, they’re his two best positions.

 

“Jonas is the real deal. He’s not just somebody who has come and you think he’s a bit of a chancer.

 

“He is proven and I think our supporters will like him.

 

“But that’s for him to decide by his performances and them for how they appreciate it.”

 

Aye he sounds gutted to have him.

 

Again, we come back to a) or b) and no c) in the middle: just because KK didn't want players signed and sold behind his back doesn't NECESSARILY mean that he hates Jonas and Colo and wants to kick fuck out of the pair of them.

 

Like you say, it's not black and white. I'm sure having SEEN Jonas KK was impressed. But it was Ashley's team who identified and closed Jonas' signature. Just because KK had a right to feel put out, doesn't mean NUFC were obliged to chase his targets.

[Robster]

Maybe Kevin saw Man City chancing their arm at Ronaldinho a few weeks ago and thought we could compete for him.

[Wullie]

Like you say, it's not black and white. I'm sure having SEEN Jonas KK was impressed. But it was Ashley's team who identified and closed Jonas' signature. Just because KK had a right to feel put out, doesn't mean NUFC were obliged to chase his targets.

 

I'd love to hear Alex Ferguson's take on that.

 

"Sorry Alex, you're only the manager, we're not obliged to buy who you want."

 

"Bye."

 

Pretty sure he threatened to walk when they didn't want to buy Dwight Yorke.

[TRon]

Like you say, it's not black and white. I'm sure having SEEN Jonas KK was impressed. But it was Ashley's team who identified and closed Jonas' signature. Just because KK had a right to feel put out, doesn't mean NUFC were obliged to chase his targets.

 

I'd love to hear Alex Ferguson's take on that.

 

"Sorry Alex, you're only the manager, we're not obliged to buy who you want."

 

"Bye."

 

Pretty sure he threatened to walk when they didn't want to buy Dwight Yorke.

 

Ferguson's forte has always been building young sides and buying players before their transfer value has peaked. KK usually goes for established stars (the list in the Times might be bullshit, but it does sound like a Keegan list).

 

Bottom line: I don't think Ashley wanted to spend the sort of money it would take to get the players Keegan wanted. In which case it was probably a mistake to make him manager.

[Optimistic Nut]

Could have at the very least give the players signed for him a chance, and worked with them. Could look very silly if the two lads brought in on the last day prove to be a success.

[Wullie]

Like you say, it's not black and white. I'm sure having SEEN Jonas KK was impressed. But it was Ashley's team who identified and closed Jonas' signature. Just because KK had a right to feel put out, doesn't mean NUFC were obliged to chase his targets.

 

I'd love to hear Alex Ferguson's take on that.

 

"Sorry Alex, you're only the manager, we're not obliged to buy who you want."

 

"Bye."

 

Pretty sure he threatened to walk when they didn't want to buy Dwight Yorke.

 

Ferguson's forte has always been building young sides and buying players before their transfer value has peaked. KK usually goes for established stars (the list in the Times might be bullshit, but it does sound like a Keegan list).

 

Bottom line: I don't think Ashley wanted to spend the sort of money it would take to get the players Keegan wanted. In which case it was probably a mistake to make him manager.

 

He didn't want to spend any money apparently. There's no way a Premiership club pulling in 52,000 people with no debt, increased tv money and three seasons worth of season ticket cash should be breaking even on transfers. Not saying don't get bargains, but if KK wanted to spend some money on players he thought would improve the squad, he should have been allowed - after all, he made it clear when he joined that he believed there was significant finance there. Ashley wouldn't have to put his hand in his own pocket, the club makes enough money.

 

Funny how plenty folk last week were convinced he wanted average Premiership players and now the same people are convinced he wanted Thierry Henry. Again - one extreme to the other. Kevin Keegan's not fucking stupid.

[TRon]

Could have at the very least give the players signed for him a chance, and worked with them. Could look very silly if the two lads brought in on the last day prove to be a success.

 

Never mind, at least he'll have the undying loyalty of Smith and Milner. i'd include Barton but he's probably have forgot about Keegan already.

[Kitman]

Like you say, it's not black and white. I'm sure having SEEN Jonas KK was impressed. But it was Ashley's team who identified and closed Jonas' signature. Just because KK had a right to feel put out, doesn't mean NUFC were obliged to chase his targets.

 

I'd love to hear Alex Ferguson's take on that.

 

"Sorry Alex, you're only the manager, we're not obliged to buy who you want."

 

"Bye."

 

Pretty sure he threatened to walk when they didn't want to buy Dwight Yorke.

 

Ferguson's forte has always been building young sides and buying players before their transfer value has peaked. KK usually goes for established stars (the list in the Times might be bullshit, but it does sound like a Keegan list).

 

Bottom line: I don't think Ashley wanted to spend the sort of money it would take to get the players Keegan wanted. In which case it was probably a mistake to make him manager.

 

Can't be arsed to look it up but my sense is Ferguson usually spends shitloads on young AND established stars - you can do that when you're big 4.  I'd call Rooney an established star for instance when Man Utd went for him but he was also young

[TRon]

Like you say, it's not black and white. I'm sure having SEEN Jonas KK was impressed. But it was Ashley's team who identified and closed Jonas' signature. Just because KK had a right to feel put out, doesn't mean NUFC were obliged to chase his targets.

 

I'd love to hear Alex Ferguson's take on that.

 

"Sorry Alex, you're only the manager, we're not obliged to buy who you want."

 

"Bye."

 

Pretty sure he threatened to walk when they didn't want to buy Dwight Yorke.

 

Ferguson's forte has always been building young sides and buying players before their transfer value has peaked. KK usually goes for established stars (the list in the Times might be bullshit, but it does sound like a Keegan list).

 

Bottom line: I don't think Ashley wanted to spend the sort of money it would take to get the players Keegan wanted. In which case it was probably a mistake to make him manager.

 

He didn't want to spend any money apparently. There's no way a Premiership club pulling in 52,000 people with no debt, increased tv money and three seasons worth of season ticket cash should be breaking even on transfers. Not saying don't get bargains, but if KK wanted to spend some money on players he thought would improve the squad, he should have been allowed - after all, he made it clear when he joined that he believed there was significant finance there. Ashley wouldn't have to put his hand in his own pocket, the club makes enough money.

 

Funny how plenty folk last week were convinced he wanted average Premiership players and now the same people are convinced he wanted Thierry Henry. Again - one extreme to the other. Kevin Keegan's not fucking stupid.

 

Won't argue with you on that one, we all thought KK was going to get plenty of money to spend. Colo was a big buy, and Modric would have blown away any doubts, but it didn't happen. So everyone will have their own theory won't they?

[Robster]

Lampard was basically locked in a tug of war between Chelsea and Inter Milan all summer. I cant for the life of me think that Keegan was stupid enough to think he could tempt him up here....

 

Plus he mustnt have seen that picture of him in the pink vest

[TRon]

Like you say, it's not black and white. I'm sure having SEEN Jonas KK was impressed. But it was Ashley's team who identified and closed Jonas' signature. Just because KK had a right to feel put out, doesn't mean NUFC were obliged to chase his targets.

 

I'd love to hear Alex Ferguson's take on that.

 

"Sorry Alex, you're only the manager, we're not obliged to buy who you want."

 

"Bye."

 

Pretty sure he threatened to walk when they didn't want to buy Dwight Yorke.

 

Ferguson's forte has always been building young sides and buying players before their transfer value has peaked. KK usually goes for established stars (the list in the Times might be bullshit, but it does sound like a Keegan list).

 

Bottom line: I don't think Ashley wanted to spend the sort of money it would take to get the players Keegan wanted. In which case it was probably a mistake to make him manager.

 

Can't be arsed to look it up but my sense is Ferguson usually spends shitloads on young AND established stars - you can do that when you're big 4.  I'd call Rooney an established star for instance when Man Utd went for him but he was also young

 

I agree you can do that if you are big 4.

[NJS]

http://timesonline.typepad.com/thegame/2008/09/dennis-wise-is.html

 

Matt Hughes - dwarf arse-licking shitbag.

 

 

[indi]

Thi is just the start of the anti-KK PR we're going to be bombarded with over the next week or so.

 

Sad thing is, it will probably work on many of us. 

 

There's going to be huge amounts of PR thrown about from both sides, one side started doing it months ago actually, the only difference is that at the moment one side's is being dismissed as bollocks and the other's is being swallowed wholesale.

 

People need to start getting rational and applying their bullshit meter evenly to everything they read, not simply agreeing with the stuff that backs up their current view and dismissing the stuff that goes against it.

[Robster]

Thi is just the start of the anti-KK PR we're going to be bombarded with over the next week or so.

 

Sad thing is, it will probably work on many of us. 

 

There's going to be huge amounts of PR thrown about from both sides, one side started doing it months ago actually, the only difference is that at the moment one side's is being dismissed as bollocks and the other's is being swallowed wholesale.

 

People need to start getting rational and applying their bullshit meter evenly to everything they read, not simply agreeing with the stuff that backs up their current view and dismissing the stuff that goes against it.

 

I dont think we will hear from Kevin for a long while now.

[indi]

Thi is just the start of the anti-KK PR we're going to be bombarded with over the next week or so.

 

Sad thing is, it will probably work on many of us. 

 

There's going to be huge amounts of PR thrown about from both sides, one side started doing it months ago actually, the only difference is that at the moment one side's is being dismissed as bollocks and the other's is being swallowed wholesale.

 

People need to start getting rational and applying their bullshit meter evenly to everything they read, not simply agreeing with the stuff that backs up their current view and dismissing the stuff that goes against it.

 

I dont think we will hear from Kevin for a long while now.

 

Oh, I think we will.

 

He may well have a number of aliases over the next few months, but we'll hear from him don't worry about that.