Newcastle United Supporters Club

[fredbob]

Would we be better off today if we had accepted Keegan walking out and allowed Ashley to find a suitable replacement as manager than where we find ourselves today?

 

Or how about...

 

Would we be better off today if Ashley accepted that Keegan needs to be in charge of buying and selling?

 

After all, he was the manager and in light of the failure to sufficiently strengthen the squad, I do believe putting the selling and buying of players into the hands of others has been a catastophic mistake in terms of the first-team, never mind the impact it has had on losing the manager.

 

I say that because even if we did accept KK's resignation and Ashley got in a new manager, that new manager would still be working with an understrength squad which on top of the fall-out from KK going (even if we did accept it, people would still be upset - fans and players), would make any new manager's job doubly hard from the get go, therefore increasing the prospect of failing.

 

To answer your question my own opinion would be no, not really.

 

No manager worth their salt would touch us knowing the previous manager was undermined and not fully supported. Forget names like Zico and Deschamps - they were just rumours and there is no guarantee even names like that would succeed anyway given how tough a job this is even in normal circumstances. Accepting KK's resignation may have allowed Ashley to bring in someone new to replace KK but I don't believe for one minute that someone would be a quality appointment or the right man for the job.

 

Furthermore that appointment would still have been constrained by the failing system which is the key and critical weakness of the whole club under Ashley. A new manager would have papered the cracks that is all.

 

While I'm not happy it has come to this I'd rather know that the manager was being undermined than let it go on behind the scenes in secret not knowing, because that kind of thing will blow up at some point. If it wasn't KK or today, it would have been with another manager another day.

 

It unfolding now in the way it has brought out the truth which is that Ashley and co are not the right people for Newcastle United and I'm grateful for that (small mercies and all that) if not exactly over the moon about it all.

 

If Ashley was the right owner for this club the question I have posed at the top of this post would have been resolved or wouldn't have been an issue. KK would still be our manager and we'd be progressing rather than stuck in this self created mangled mess we are in now.

 

We as fans can only accept what our hearts tell us, our job is to lend our myriad of emotions to the club we follow which the game of football suck from us like blood and would die if we didn't turn up with our hearts on our sleeves. It is too much and wrong to ask fans to be cold hearted and business like which accepting KK resigning and allowing Ashley and co total immunity from any blame, criticism or whatever, would be.

 

It isn't our fault things have turned out like they have, we responded like we are meant to or rather the way we are built to as emotional beings. You can't criticise fans for, well, being fans surely?

 

What did people expect from fans when this all blew up? To go "OK then, bye Kev - on with your duties Mike"?

 

If we were cold hearted and businesslike we wouldn't be fans.

 

It is the fault of Ashley and co this whole mess and they have responded to it very badly indeed.

 

Regardless of the scenario you create, the outcome always points to Newcastle United in turmoil.

 

We are now placed in a position where we can only hope for the best because this must be the most uncertain time in the club's history. I don't know about you but what is around the corner scares the f*** out of me, especially the way football as a whole is going never mind just our club.

 

If only we could rewind back to the day we reappointed KK and give him what all managers need, full control and support. If that happened this whole discussion wouldn't be an issue and we'd most probably be higher up the table looking to a healthy future.

 

That is the true question that needs asked and answered and not the one you posed Chez.

 

Would we be better off today if Ashley accepted that Keegan needs to be in charge of buying and selling?

 

Considering that so much of what you've put is 'conjecture stated as fact' I'll do the same. If i was the owner why should I give a manager £40m of my money to buy whoever he wants even it it contravenes the way i want the money spending?

 

Do i not have a say on how it gets spent?

 

Do you not think thats how Ashley might see it?

[TRon]

 

 

When there is no logic, no reason and no damn communication people will often go with their gut instincts and I think since KK walked, those instincts have been proved right by the complete balls up of a salvage operation Ashley and Co have attempted since then. I say attempted they've actually done nowt but release a few daft statements and forced by unhappy players to put Chris Hughton out of his misery and bring in an interim manager.

 

 

 

I'm sorry HTT but I'm not having that. You have got to be taking the piss in all honesty. The only person who has actually got on with keeping the club alive is Ashley. He didn't walk away like Keegan and put in a compensation claim while the club burned. He didn't leave Hughton floundering in the storm while trying to sell the club, he tried to get Venables and when that fell through still managed to bring in a manager to work on a short term contract. Kinnear might have caused a few sneers but at least Ashley provided a solution rather than carp from the sidelines which is all the NUSC are capable of so far.

 

 

 

All belatedly forced on him by his own inaction to start with. By showing no support or confidence in his manager or to intervene he has effectively allowed this all to happen so pardon me when I don't thank him for appointing an interim manager, a decision that was only brought about because of some players kicking off anyway.

 

If the players were "kicking off" at least most of them now seem happy he has provided a solution rather than whinge and moan like people who think they know better but in fact can't even get simple statement of intent out without looking like a complete bunch of dimwits.

[ChezGiven]

I'm pissed off, and I'm sick that groups like NUSC are representing me, saying that we're willing to boycott the club and it's sponsors, and wish/demand to speak to possible owners purely to warn them presumably not to cross the emotional bullshit and employ a KK or Shearer or we'll walk. It f***ing sickens me.

 

I am pissed off at people thinking that NUSC represents them it, strangely it represents Newcastle United Supporters Club. Are you in the club? I am guessing no here, so it doesn't represent you.

 

 

 

As 'the voice of Newcastle United Supporters' of course I feel they represent me. I have no choice in the fucking matter. They are the go to boys for the national media.

 

Christ, there latest bullshit press release is just as heartening as the rest...

 

"Newcastle United Supporters Club today welcomes the departure of Vice President (Player Recruitment) Tony Jimenez from NUFC with an air of cautious optimism.

 

As one of the key antagonists behind the recent traumatic events at NUFC that have led directly to the club’s current instability, we believe that Mr. Jimenez’ continued employment at the club had long since become untenable.

 

With the club currently up for sale it seemed increasingly obvious that Mr. Jimenez’ role at NUFC was effectively redundant and we are pleased, therefore, that he is no longer on the club’s payroll.

 

The committee of NUSC would like to express our cautious optimism at today’s announcement and our hope that it can act as a precursor to the departures of other undesirable elements of the board followed by a quick sale of the club to a party who has the club’s best interests at heart.

 

The departure of Mr. Jimenez must not, however, be used as a smokescreen, nor must his departure be a sacrifice that allows the current regime to maintain their hold on Newcastle United Football Club."

 

Fuck off you miserable cunts.

 

Paranoid and embarrassing at the same time.

[Offshore]

I'm pissed off, and I'm sick that groups like NUSC are representing me, saying that we're willing to boycott the club and it's sponsors, and wish/demand to speak to possible owners purely to warn them presumably not to cross the emotional bullshit and employ a KK or Shearer or we'll walk. It f***ing sickens me.

 

I am pissed off at people thinking that NUSC represents them it, strangely it represents Newcastle United Supporters Club. Are you in the club? I am guessing no here, so it doesn't represent you.

 

 

 

As 'the voice of Newcastle United Supporters' of course I feel they represent me. I have no choice in the f***ing matter. They are the go to boys for the national media.

 

 

Nice to see you missed Club off 

 

It is like saying the British National Party represent everyone who is a British National.

 

They think they do tbh (the BNP that is!!)

[TRon]

He didn't walk away like Keegan and put in a compensation claim while the club burned.

 

Spot on. He did put the club for sale ASAP & is looking for a quick sale but not a fire sale. He couldn't walk away could he but  Mort left, Steve Hayward left & now TJ has left. All his top brass is bailed out, Lambrini will be sit tight until the sale is done.

 

So you approve that he is selling the club and Lambrini is still there to make sure the sale goes through ok? Nice one.

[Baggio]

"Newcastle United Supporters Club today welcomes the departure of Vice President (Player Recruitment) Tony Jimenez from NUFC with an air of cautious optimism.

 

As one of the key antagonists behind the recent traumatic events at NUFC that have led directly to the club’s current instability, we believe that Mr. Jimenez’ continued employment at the club had long since become untenable.

 

With the club currently up for sale it seemed increasingly obvious that Mr. Jimenez’ role at NUFC was effectively redundant and we are pleased, therefore, that he is no longer on the club’s payroll.

 

The committee of NUSC would like to express our cautious optimism at today’s announcement and our hope that it can act as a precursor to the departures of other undesirable elements of the board followed by a quick sale of the club to a party who has the club’s best interests at heart.

 

The departure of Mr. Jimenez must not, however, be used as a smokescreen, nor must his departure be a sacrifice that allows the current regime to maintain their hold on Newcastle United Football Club."

 

Perhaps they should put more effort into recruiting new members rather than releasing rent-a-mong statements every other day.

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

It isn't our fault things have turned out like they have, we responded like we are meant to or rather the way we are built to as emotional beings

 

I'm sorry. What? You dont have to be a sodding robot to look at the wider picture. As for the rest, the idea tha the manager is the be all and end of the club is just, well, mad.

 

When there is no logic, no reason and no damn communication people will often go with their gut instincts and I think since KK walked, those instincts have been proved right by the complete balls up of a salvage operation Ashley and Co have attempted since then. I say attempted they've actually done nowt but release a few daft statements and forced by unhappy players to put Chris Hughton out of his misery and bring in an interim manager.

 

It is perfectly logical for fans to react they way they did even if you don't agree with it which oddly enough I didn't myself (the protests and stuff). I understood the reaction though and considered fans perfectly entitled in the face of zero communication and the whole pointlessness of it all to react the way they did which is something believe it or not that fans, certainly at Newcastle, have done over and over again when things have happened they don't like or agree with.

 

"Sack the board" predates trees.

 

Well I do have a problem with people getting emotional to any degree that I feels damages the club. I'm not like you. You hated bellamy, you got emotional, same with Robert. Any quotes you jumped on and condemned them for it. I don't condemn so readily, I took what they said as not an attack but as pretty fair observations from players who took massive amounts of joy from of scoring for the club, or at least a damn sight more that some of the hard working passionless c***s some people seem to crave. Players that I love watching (not just strikers, I still bang on about woodgate who I got f***ing joy out of his time here and have great hope that Collocini can maybe do something similar). I gave Ashley the same, I saw good things there. Not perfect but I hoped the relationship with the club would grow. Keegan walked. A massive fuckup but god knows what went on, and he got crucified. Maybe he didnt have the belly for the abuse, but then I'm not sure anyone who wasn't here purely to make money would have, he was demonised and had to go.

 

I'm pissed off, and I'm sick that groups like NUSC are representing me, saying that we're willing to boycott the club and it's sponsors, and wish/demand to speak to possible owners purely to presumably warn them not to cross the emotional bullshit and employ a KK or Shearer or we'll walk. It f***ing sickens me.

 

You're doing the exact same thing with regards to NUSC though are you not? And they are not representing you and nor do they claim to. You're allowing your emotions to run the rule over them though which is my point, resulting in a negative image.

 

You can't control emotion, not in these cases anyway. Take the death of Princess Diana, the reaction now is pathetic, but at the time people couldn't control or help themselves.

 

Where football is concerned you often get swept up or swept along by things and thank fuck for that I say. Its what created that great atmosphere when KK was here first time and what has created a shit one now he's gone second time around.

 

Its natural and to be expected from fans who by and large when it comes to football are irrational, highly emotional and all too often uninformed and that's not their fault 99% of the time.

[Stu]

What I still don't understand is why certain people assume that Ashley HAS to sell the club and that he has no other choice but to do so. Let's say that he wants his (assumed) £280million back plus a little bonus (if possible) for his time here. No buyer in 6months...NUSC organise continue boycott of the club and merchandise. Value of club presumably falls because of perceived 'problems', Ashley struggling to get any interest at all above £100million.

 

At what point does his marginal propensity to try and reclaim back as much of his cash fall below his marginal propensity to think of the club as a write-off (in terms of his investment) and leave it to (effectively) wind down?

 

I can't presume to know how he genuinely feels towards the "toon army" and their actions towards him, but it wouldn't stretch the imagination too much to think that he may be hurt/angry at the actions of our supporters in September.

 

This is a chap who doesn't 'need' the £200million to survive, he's rumoured to have lost £300mil betting on HBOS shares...what if he decides that this is just a failed investment and that he no longer has the clubs best interests at heart? The slide into mediocrity (Championship and below) is just a couple of seasons away, a few years at that level and we're suddenly the 'new' Forest, Leeds, Wednesday, etc.

 

 

[midds]

How do they know for certain that Jiminez was 'one of the key antagonists behind the recent traumatic events at NUFC'? 

 

[fredbob]

I'm pissed off, and I'm sick that groups like NUSC are representing me, saying that we're willing to boycott the club and it's sponsors, and wish/demand to speak to possible owners purely to warn them presumably not to cross the emotional bullshit and employ a KK or Shearer or we'll walk. It f***ing sickens me.

 

I am pissed off at people thinking that NUSC represents them it, strangely it represents Newcastle United Supporters Club. Are you in the club? I am guessing no here, so it doesn't represent you.

 

 

 

As 'the voice of Newcastle United Supporters' of course I feel they represent me. I have no choice in the f***ing matter. They are the go to boys for the national media.

 

 

Nice to see you missed Club off

 

It is like saying the British National Party represent everyone who is a British National.

 

 

That is a stinker of a comparison.

 

Try Labour governemnt representing those who vote labour, then you'd be closer to home.

[BottledDog]

I'm pissed off, and I'm sick that groups like NUSC are representing me, saying that we're willing to boycott the club and it's sponsors, and wish/demand to speak to possible owners purely to warn them presumably not to cross the emotional bullshit and employ a KK or Shearer or we'll walk. It f***ing sickens me.

 

I am pissed off at people thinking that NUSC represents them it, strangely it represents Newcastle United Supporters Club. Are you in the club? I am guessing no here, so it doesn't represent you.

 

 

 

As 'the voice of Newcastle United Supporters' of course I feel they represent me. I have no choice in the f***ing matter. They are the go to boys for the national media.

 

 

Nice to see you missed Club off 

 

It is like saying the British National Party represent everyone who is a British National.

  Oh I'm sorry, have they not already been the subject of the national press? Have they not already been the subject of stories saying the Newcastle fans are continuing the boycott god know what? Or demand interviews with possible buyers. And are they not the fucking go to site if the newspapers have nothing to print... but wait there is another story we can jump on that newcastle fans are now fucking boycotting/demanding/upset about this that and the other?

 

Course not.

[Guest Howaythetoon]

You see, even simple statements are riling people... but woe behold those that get riled when the fucking manager is forced into resigning.

 

[Offshore]

Its all in the name.

 

Calling themselves the 'Newcastle United Supporters Club' implies that it speaks for ALL supporters, I don't have a problem with their demands, as long as they don't do it in my name as a Newcastle United supporter.

 

If they'd called themselves 'The Ashley Out Club' or similiar then the only thing folk would/could complain about was their aims and not the fact that they pertain to represent everyone.

 

The Toon Ultras get a load of grief over their name and all they want to do is sing at matches.

 

 

[Liam Liam Liam O]

How do they know for certain that Jiminez was 'one of the key antagonists behind the recent traumatic events at NUFC'? 

 

 

Biffa said so

[Stu]

What I still don't understand is why certain people assume that Ashley HAS to sell the club and that he has no other choice but to do so. Let's say that he wants his (assumed) £280million back plus a little bonus (if possible) for his time here. No buyer in 6months...NUSC organise continue boycott of the club and merchandise. Value of club presumably falls because of perceived 'problems', Ashley struggling to get any interest at all above £100million.

 

At what point does his marginal propensity to try and reclaim back as much of his cash fall below his marginal propensity to think of the club as a write-off (in terms of his investment) and leave it to (effectively) wind down?

 

I can't presume to know how he genuinely feels towards the "toon army" and their actions towards him, but it wouldn't stretch the imagination too much to think that he may be hurt/angry at the actions of our supporters in September.

 

This is a chap who doesn't 'need' the £200million to survive, he's rumoured to have lost £300mil betting on HBOS shares...what if he decides that this is just a failed investment and that he no longer has the clubs best interests at heart? The slide into mediocrity (Championship and below) is just a couple of seasons away, a few years at that level and we're suddenly the 'new' Forest, Leeds, Wednesday, etc.

 

 

Forgot to put the point of this post:

 

If (!) Ashley comes to the conclusion that he DOESN'T have the best interests of NUFC at heart and is prepared to write off his investment, what are the NUSC going to do?

 

I'm a little concerned that they've 'recruited' thousands of fans - many who joined in good faith (chance to contribute, etc) - and these fans will be somewhat disenfranchised from the club in a scenario like the above due to the aggressive attempts to remove Ashley.

[Thespence]

He didn't walk away like Keegan and put in a compensation claim while the club burned.

 

Spot on. He did put the club for sale ASAP & is looking for a quick sale but not a fire sale. He couldn't walk away could he but  Mort left, Steve Hayward left & now TJ has left. All his top brass is bailed out, Lambrini will be sit tight until the sale is done.

 

So you approve that he is selling the club and Lambrini is still there to make sure the sale goes through ok? Nice one.

 

I think it is for the best that he sells the club for his own fragile mind more than anything else, getting called a fat cockney bastard, seeing a banner saying Cockney Mafia, shares in his company crashing & NUSC now setting up a credible rival to Newcastle United merchandise would of meant porky could of topped himself. Tbf, he did well in honeymoon season but he is from the same chuck the toys out of the pram school as KK. Of course when the toys are worth over a quarter of billion pounds they take a bit longer to chuck.

[fredbob]

You see, even simple statements are riling people... but woe behold those that get riled when the f***ing manager is forced into resigning.

 

Statements are "riling" people because there put together with a notepad and a fucking crayon.  NUSC could of done some decent PR for the club and the fans and put to bed some "myths" about nufc fans, but instead they do nothing but intensify the belief that we're all delusional...

[ChezGiven]

Take the death of Princess Diana

 

[ChezGiven]

... but woe behold those....

 

 

 

Never change HTT 

 

[Thespence]

I'm pissed off, and I'm sick that groups like NUSC are representing me, saying that we're willing to boycott the club and it's sponsors, and wish/demand to speak to possible owners purely to warn them presumably not to cross the emotional bullshit and employ a KK or Shearer or we'll walk. It f***ing sickens me.

 

I am pissed off at people thinking that NUSC represents them it, strangely it represents Newcastle United Supporters Club. Are you in the club? I am guessing no here, so it doesn't represent you.

 

 

 

As 'the voice of Newcastle United Supporters' of course I feel they represent me. I have no choice in the f***ing matter. They are the go to boys for the national media.

 

 

Nice to see you missed Club off 

 

It is like saying the British National Party represent everyone who is a British National.

  Oh I'm sorry, have they not already been the subject of the national press? Have they not already been the subject of stories saying the Newcastle fans are continuing the boycott god know what? Or demand interviews with possible buyers. And are they not the f***ing go to site if the newspapers have nothing to print... but wait there is another story we can jump on that newcastle fans are now f***ing boycotting/demanding/upset about this that and the other?

 

Course not.

 

I am not sure what you point is in that "non-emotional" post but they do not represent me or you as we are not NUSC members.

[fredbob]

Take the death of Princess Diana

 

 

 

 

[Baggio]

And it seems to me, Keegan lived his life like a candle in the wind...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unreliable.

[ChezGiven]

[Tooj]

Take the death of Princess Diana

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Howaythetoon]

A few things. First of all dont confuse being able to analyse the situation with my head with a lack of passion. I've adored this club for longer than you've been alive and my passion runs as deep as yours. On several occasions in the last year you've highlighted the detached nature of what i have said and i've let it ride. I'm as done in by this situation as any of us are and just because i can think before i post doesnt mean i'm "coldhearted and businesslike". Just wanted to clear that one up.

 

I wasn't aiming that at you mate nor trying to claim people cannot be passionate and and use their head at the same time.

 

Clearly so many factors come into play or have done to illicit such a reaction from fans towards Ashley and Co though. I personally believe a lot of it stems from years and years of bullshit whether it be managerial appointments gone wrong, awful performances, poor league finishes and dross in the shirt with this new mess if you like opening up old wounds in a way and compounding it all. People have had enough and when people have had enough they react in ways they wouldn't usually. If you had enough of your lass, you could walk out after calling her all the names under the sun despite loving her to bits.

 

Secondly, the question was to check the direction this is all going in. I asked a question but i didnt specify what i thought as its obvious where we are now is f***ed and it didnt have to be. The faith you have that other owners will be better is laughably ironic to me too, as thats the same faith you had when Shepherd was here. 

 

I have no faith left to give anyone whether it be a new manager or a new owner so I don't know where you're reading that from. Didn't I say I'm scared shitless of what is around the corner? That doesn't mean I should be happy with Ashley and co or want him to stay. I can't see a way for him to stay without causing further damage so we are all being forced into a corner here if you like.

 

Anyway, the bit i've quoted i agree with and its the most important one, as you said. The answer is yes, as we all could see the direction was there at the beginning of the season in football terms.

 

And that's what is so screwed up about this and why I wonder about Ashley because he was there at Old Trafford. Why would you screw with that, why would you want that to come to an abrupt end which even an idiot could foresee happening, without KK there holding it altogether.

 

And that's what KK was about. Say what you will about him but he was the major figure of hope at the club. The team wasn't because it was quite average and needed overhauling and still does. With KK around the hope was real and justified.

 

To take that away seems insane from every level, financially and results wise. It makes no sense whatsoever.