He's gone down in my estimation.

[johnnypd]

Well, I've been gone for an hour and this thread has progressed quite nicely... 

 

This was never a thread about Ashley's culpability or the validity of the system. This is the third time I've had to clarify this. (I suspect a lot of peple just don't read things that aren't convenient for them.)

 

What it's about is the fact that we've been seriously let down by a man that was a hero to all of us. No matter how bad things were he shouldn't have left when he did. He couldn't have if he actually loved the club as much as we thought he did.

 

So he's gone down in my estimation.

 

It's that simple.

 

As for the stuff SSR and Argy are spouting, I'll say "laughable" and we'll leave it at that.

 

that's asking keegan to martyr himself for our cause which is unreasonable. if the working conditions were untenable, and the emnity that has emerged from the board since the situation flared up suggests that was the case, then he's done the right thing by leaving.

[Guest K9]

You can't blame keegan imo, this system turned on him, and ashley has allowed it. This was when wise and people have said keegan has the final say etc

 

He has everyright to quit and owes us nothing

 

Or to paraphrase on your behalf: "Here's my gaping sphincter. Please sodomise me".

 

Get a grip.

No

[Guest Howaythetoon]

Those saying KK should have stuck with it, what for? You still wouldn't get your everything is alright club yous are blaming him for dismantling by walking out, if anything it would get even worse. He can't win. He stays he's weak, he's lost it, he's here for the money. He goes he's week, he's lost it, he's left us in the shit. Again fuck off!

[NJS]

Well, I've been gone for an hour and this thread has progressed quite nicely... 

 

This was never a thread about Ashley's culpability or the validity of the system. This is the third time I've had to clarify this. (I suspect a lot of peple just don't read things that aren't convenient for them.)

 

ASHLEY AND CO FUCKED UP, I KNOW THAT.

 

What it's about is the fact that we've been seriously let down by a man that was a hero to all of us. No matter how bad things were he shouldn't have left when he did. He couldn't have if he actually loved the club as much as we thought he did.

 

So he's gone down in my estimation.

 

It's that simple.

 

As for the stuff SSR and Argy are spouting, I'll say "laughable" and we'll leave it at that.

 

If he'd walked in May would we be better off?

 

You can't separate the circumstances - I'm disappointed with him for going (at any time) but in some ways I think it was almost heroic of him to say as long as he did.

 

 

 

 

 

[cp40]

Well, I've been gone for an hour and this thread has progressed quite nicely... 

 

This was never a thread about Ashley's culpability or the validity of the system. This is the third time I've had to clarify this. (I suspect a lot of peple just don't read things that aren't convenient for them.)

 

ASHLEY AND CO f***ed UP, I KNOW THAT.

 

What it's about is the fact that we've been seriously let down by a man that was a hero to all of us. No matter how bad things were he shouldn't have left when he did. He couldn't have if he actually loved the club as much as we thought he did.

 

So he's gone down in my estimation.

 

It's that simple.

 

As for the stuff SSR and Argy are spouting, I'll say "laughable" and we'll leave it at that.

 

 

He shouldnt have left, the day he found out he had been lied to all summer?

 

[oldtype]

Well, I've been gone for an hour and this thread has progressed quite nicely... 

 

This was never a thread about Ashley's culpability or the validity of the system. This is the third time I've had to clarify this. (I suspect a lot of peple just don't read things that aren't convenient for them.)

 

What it's about is the fact that we've been seriously let down by a man that was a hero to all of us. No matter how bad things were he shouldn't have left when he did. He couldn't have if he actually loved the club as much as we thought he did.

 

So he's gone down in my estimation.

 

It's that simple.

 

As for the stuff SSR and Argy are spouting, I'll say "laughable" and we'll leave it at that.

 

that's asking keegan to martyr himself for our cause which is unreasonable. if the working conditions were untenable, and the emnity that has emerged from the board since the situation flared up suggests that was the case, then he's done the right thing by leaving.

 

I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to ask of someone who supposedly "loves the club."

 

It's not as if Ashley is making him walk over hot coals every day.

 

Also, we would be infinitely better off if he just walked away in May. Or better yet, never took the job in the first place.

 

Yes, that would also be a shit situation, but it would be better than this.

[NJS]

It's not as if Ashley is making him walk over hot coals every day.

 

Sorry but that's exactly what he was asking him to do - not manage the club.

 

Another point. Let's say he'd stayed. How long do you think it would have been before those "above" him started insisting he picked their players?

[NJS]

 

Also, we would be infinitely better off if he just walked away in May. Or better yet, never took the job in the first place.

 

How would we have been better off?

 

If he hadn't come in January We'd have been relegated.

 

 

[oldtype]

It's not as if Ashley is making him walk over hot coals every day.

 

Sorry but that's exactly what he was asking him to do - not manage the club.

 

Another point. Let's say he'd stayed. How long do you think it would have been before those "above" him started insisting he picked their players?

 

The transfer window was over. Exactly what part of his job would amount ot "not managing?"

 

As for the board interfering in squad selection, that's a nightmare scenario and couldn't be justified in any situation, but it didn't happen and we have no reason to believe it would.

 

 

Also, we would be infinitely better off if he just walked away in May. Or better yet, never took the job in the first place.

 

How would we have been better off?

 

If he hadn't come in January We'd have been relegated.

 

 

 

We would have the entire off-season for Ashley to sell up, then for the new owner to consolidate and find a new manger.

 

As opposed to the current situation where we just drift aimlessly through the season throwing away points every week.

 

As for us getting relegated last season without Keegan, that's a myth. He had us playing some amazing football when we went on our run, but his overall record was pretty average at best.

[Kimbo]

 

Also, we would be infinitely better off if he just walked away in May. Or better yet, never took the job in the first place.

 

How would we have been better off?

 

If he hadn't come in January We'd have been relegated.

 

 

 

I'm sure someone else would have been hired.

[johnnypd]

Well, I've been gone for an hour and this thread has progressed quite nicely... 

 

This was never a thread about Ashley's culpability or the validity of the system. This is the third time I've had to clarify this. (I suspect a lot of peple just don't read things that aren't convenient for them.)

 

What it's about is the fact that we've been seriously let down by a man that was a hero to all of us. No matter how bad things were he shouldn't have left when he did. He couldn't have if he actually loved the club as much as we thought he did.

 

So he's gone down in my estimation.

 

It's that simple.

 

As for the stuff SSR and Argy are spouting, I'll say "laughable" and we'll leave it at that.

 

that's asking keegan to martyr himself for our cause which is unreasonable. if the working conditions were untenable, and the emnity that has emerged from the board since the situation flared up suggests that was the case, then he's done the right thing by leaving.

 

I think it's a perfectly reasonable thing to ask of someone who supposedly "loves the club."

 

It's not as if Ashley is making him walk over hot coals every day.

 

Also, we would be infinitely better off if he just walked away in May. Or better yet, never took the job in the first place.

 

Yes, that would also be a shit situation, but it would be better than this.

 

so youre basically saying he should've quit earlier, or should've stayed longer. okay  imo he tried to work through the issues until the end of the transfer window, only for them to get worse, which explains the timing.

[cp40]

 

Also, we would be infinitely better off if he just walked away in May. Or better yet, never took the job in the first place.

 

How would we have been better off?

 

If he hadn't come in January We'd have been relegated.

 

 

 

 

we would be the richest club in the Championship, top of the table, winning all our games,

[Optimistic Nut]

NJS, the last two posts all you've dealt in are speculation.

 

a) I don't think for one second Wise or whoever would dare make Keegan pick players in a matchday squad. And in anycase, the 4 main signings are playing in any case as they're the best in their positions when fit.

 

b) Again, how do you know another appointed manager would have been able to scrape the necessary 15 points Keegan got us.

[Mick]

Those saying KK should have stuck with it, what for? You still wouldn't get your everything is alright club yous are blaming him for dismantling by walking out, if anything it would get even worse. He can't win. He stays he's weak, he's lost it, he's here for the money. He goes he's week, he's lost it, he's left us in the s***. Again f*** off!

 

Keegan should have stuck with it as we would have been better with him than without him.  Sometimes in life you have to play with the shit hand you've been dealt.

[NJS]

The transfer window was over. Exactly what part of his job would amount ot "not managing?"

 

He would have players in his squad he didn't want.

 

As for the board interfering in squad selection, that's a nightmare scenario and couldn't be justified in any situation, but it didn't happen and we have no reason to believe it did.

 

 

 

I have every reason to believe it would though - this summer has been a gradual positioning of power camps which the idiots "won" by singularly failing to strengthen the team where Keegan wanted it. They gradually imposed themselves on him over time.

 

The next logical step is team selection.

[Mick]

 

Sorry but that's exactly what he was asking him to do - not manage the club.

 

Another point. Let's say he'd stayed. How long do you think it would have been before those "above" him started insisting he picked their players?

 

I doubt that anybody would have picked the team.

[oldtype]

The transfer window was over. Exactly what part of his job would amount ot "not managing?"

 

He would have players in his squad he didn't want.

 

As for the board interfering in squad selection, that's a nightmare scenario and couldn't be justified in any situation, but it didn't happen and we have no reason to believe it did.

 

 

 

I have every reason to believe it would though - this summer has been a gradual positioning of power camps which the idiots "won" by singularly failing to strengthen the team where Keegan wanted it. They gradually imposed themselves on him over time.

 

The next logical step is team selection.

 

Complete conjecture. I dont' think it's very likely at all that would have happened.

 

Even Roman couldn't force his managers to pick Shevchenko.

[NJS]

NJS, the last two posts all you've dealt in are speculation.

 

a) I don't think for one second Wise or whoever would dare make Keegan pick players in a matchday squad. And in anycase, the 4 main signings are playing in any case as they're the best in their positions when fit.

 

b) Again, how do you know another appointed manager would have been able to scrape the necessary 15 points Keegan got us.

 

 

A) - Again it the logical next step for a selling club - I say that as I don't believe for one second he wanted to build gradually.

 

B) - the points were about confidence - I can't think of another manager on earth I would have trusted to restore confidence to that team last year. Not one.

 

 

[NJS]

The transfer window was over. Exactly what part of his job would amount ot "not managing?"

 

He would have players in his squad he didn't want.

 

As for the board interfering in squad selection, that's a nightmare scenario and couldn't be justified in any situation, but it didn't happen and we have no reason to believe it did.

 

 

 

I have every reason to believe it would though - this summer has been a gradual positioning of power camps which the idiots "won" by singularly failing to strengthen the team where Keegan wanted it. They gradually imposed themselves on him over time.

 

The next logical step is team selection.

 

Complete conjecture. I dont' think it's very likely at all that would have happened.

 

Even Roman couldn't force his managers to pick Shevchenko.

 

What about the bloke at Hearts - Romanov wasn't it?

 

 

[Optimistic Nut]

NJS, the last two posts all you've dealt in are speculation.

 

a) I don't think for one second Wise or whoever would dare make Keegan pick players in a matchday squad. And in anycase, the 4 main signings are playing in any case as they're the best in their positions when fit.

 

b) Again, how do you know another appointed manager would have been able to scrape the necessary 15 points Keegan got us.

 

 

A) - Again it the logical next step for a selling club - I say that as I don't believe for one second he wanted to build gradually.

 

B) - the points were about confidence - I can't think of another manager on earth I would have trusted to restore confidence to that team last year. Not one.

 

 

 

A) If they were going to do that, they'd have just named Wise as manager in January.

 

B) I still think we'd have stayed up easily.

[NJS]

 

Sorry but that's exactly what he was asking him to do - not manage the club.

 

Another point. Let's say he'd stayed. How long do you think it would have been before those "above" him started insisting he picked their players?

 

I doubt that anybody would have picked the team.

 

As I said I think over the summer and especially at the end they've impose their will on Keegan - fair enough if that's how its supposed to work but then that's Ashley's fault - if the rumours about Wise deliberately humiliating Keegan are true than I don't think an "uneasy" peace would have lasted.

 

I can see the argument he should have realised it wasn;t going to work and gone in May but as I said we'd be no better off.

 

 

[oldtype]

The transfer window was over. Exactly what part of his job would amount ot "not managing?"

 

He would have players in his squad he didn't want.

 

As for the board interfering in squad selection, that's a nightmare scenario and couldn't be justified in any situation, but it didn't happen and we have no reason to believe it did.

 

 

 

I have every reason to believe it would though - this summer has been a gradual positioning of power camps which the idiots "won" by singularly failing to strengthen the team where Keegan wanted it. They gradually imposed themselves on him over time.

 

The next logical step is team selection.

 

Complete conjecture. I dont' think it's very likely at all that would have happened.

 

Even Roman couldn't force his managers to pick Shevchenko.

 

What about the bloke at Hearts - Romanov wasn't it?

 

 

 

I can't comment because I don't know much about that situation.

 

But I simply don't think that we'd ever have seen Dennis Wise picking the matchday squad even if the current regime had persisted.

[johnnypd]

I love the way Keegan is supposed to put up with whatever intefering crap comes his way and making a stand against it is a massive failure on his part. might be more instructive to look at the sort of interfering crap he had to put up with as the root cause. the situation wouldve blown up sooner or later, keegan thought he could fight it from within while the window was open - he couldnt, so he left. now we have to get on with it and appoint a new boss, except we cant cos ashley wants out at the first sign of trouble.

[Optimistic Nut]

I love the way Keegan is supposed to put up with whatever intefering crap comes his way and making a stand against it is a massive failure on his part. might be more instructive to look at the sort of interfering crap he had to put up with as the root cause. the situation wouldve blown up sooner or later, keegan thought he could fight it from within while the window was open - he couldnt, so he left. now we have to get on with it and appoint a new boss, except we cant cos ashley wants out at the first sign of trouble.

 

And it REALLY took until late-night on September 1st before he realised enough was enough?

[johnnypd]

I love the way Keegan is supposed to put up with whatever intefering crap comes his way and making a stand against it is a massive failure on his part. might be more instructive to look at the sort of interfering crap he had to put up with as the root cause. the situation wouldve blown up sooner or later, keegan thought he could fight it from within while the window was open - he couldnt, so he left. now we have to get on with it and appoint a new boss, except we cant cos ashley wants out at the first sign of trouble.

 

And it REALLY took until late-night on September 1st before he realised enough was enough?

 

i think ive addressed that in my previous two posts. it's no coincidence that things came to a head as the transfer window closed.