He's gone down in my estimation.

[fredbob]

I love the way Keegan is supposed to put up with whatever intefering crap comes his way and making a stand against it is a massive failure on his part. might be more instructive to look at the sort of interfering crap he had to put up with as the root cause. the situation wouldve blown up sooner or later, keegan thought he could fight it from within while the window was open - he couldnt, so he left. now we have to get on with it and appoint a new boss, except we cant cos ashley wants out at the first sign of trouble.

 

And it REALLY took until late-night on September 1st before he realised enough was enough?

 

If you can't see the s*** hit the fan from Milner's sale up until that time you really are blind. Broken promises, lack of signings, attempted sales - that's what a deadline does.

 

 

 

I may of got this completely wrong but straight after the milner sale there was that video interview/press conference about it and he there was no inkling of any  issues reagrading the sale of Milner  that seemed to be bubbling under the surface - in fact alot of this board were jizzing themselves at the prospect of "3-4 signings" that may be coming in. It was that video where he confirm that that Zayatte or whatever his name was was on trial with us.....

 

Aye but the idea is that KK was told that the Milner sale could be positive thing as it would trigger 3or 4 signings.

 

Now:

 

A. They should have been looking for at least 3or 4 signings ANYWAY.

 

B. They didn't happen and instead two "panic" buys were made.

 

This is pretty central though I still think its the attempted sales which was more crucial.

 

 

 

A - Agreed - before this all blew up i was ready to say that i was massively dissapointed with the window - the signings we made in my opinion were excellent and the performance against Man U reiterated that but they werent enough - quantity wise.

 

Keegan didnt say anything about attempted sales - his quote was "player shouldnt be forced onto him that he didnt want" suggesting he didnt want Xisco or Nacho.

 

B - if 3-4 signings were on there way after the milner sale - wouldnt that suggest that we DID make attempt to sign players but they didnt come off - who can you blame for that.

 

The only way that B carries weight was that Keegan was lied to about the 3-4 signings and they were never on the cards in the first place - but even that would contradict the signings of nacho and xisco.

[Mick]

 

 

Absent parent - away too much and trusted his minions.

 

 

 

I would agree with that, I think he's got the wrong people working for him and I think his mistake is not doing enough to correct what happened in his absence.  I'm more than happy to say guilty as charged on that one.

[fredbob]

The fact that they tried to smear his name via the media with reports of wanting Lampard and players like that should tell you everything you need to know, or at least make you suspicious.

 

Dont hear many denials though....seems like a strange smear if it wasnt true....as despicable as the smear was something about it rings true with me, it just seemed far too specific.

 

You dont respect Keegan for not wanting to get into a childish mud-slinging match through the press ?

Two ways of looking at it. I prefer to assume Keegan wouldnt lower himself to such levels.

 

Thats not the point though - the point was whether it was true or if it isnt - the nature of the "leak" suggest to me that it was true which is why you have to ask yourself was keegan really rowing in the same direction as the club reagrading transfer policies - and if not - why? and what should the boards response be if it IS the case?

 

To me the only response would be to sack Keegan or undermine him.

[fredbob]

The fact that they tried to smear his name via the media with reports of wanting Lampard and players like that should tell you everything you need to know, or at least make you suspicious.

 

Dont hear many denials though....seems like a strange smear if it wasnt true....as despicable as the smear was something about it rings true with me, it just seemed far too specific.

 

They expanded on something he said when naming his dream signing as Henry. I would also not have been surprised if he'd said "Man City are after Ronaldinho - if they can why can't we" (fair question).

 

The Lampard one though is daft - even Keegan at his "daftest" wouldn't have expected Lampard to leave Chelsea for us.

 

Then it seems like an easy thing to turn back onto the club using his god like status aroung newcastle if it werent true.

 

 

[fredbob]

The fact that they tried to smear his name via the media with reports of wanting Lampard and players like that should tell you everything you need to know, or at least make you suspicious.

 

Dont hear many denials though....seems like a strange smear if it wasnt true....as despicable as the smear was something about it rings true with me, it just seemed far too specific.

 

You dont respect Keegan for not wanting to get into a childish mud-slinging match through the press ?

Two ways of looking at it. I prefer to assume Keegan wouldnt lower himself to such levels.

 

Thats not the point though - the point was whether it was true or if it isnt - the nature of the "leak" suggest to me that it was true which is why you have to ask yourself was keegan really rowing in the same direction as the club reagrading transfer policies - and if not - why? and what should the boards response be if it IS the case?

 

To me the only response would be to sack Keegan or undermine him.

 

I don't get where you're coming from with this leak stuff.

 

Whose to say it was even a leak? Could it not just be media 2+2=48?

 

Even if it was a leak, it stinks of trying to save face and paint KK out to be the bad guy to try and win fans back.

 

 

 

the bottom line is that the article is dangerously close to being slanderous if its not true, which im sure you know is illegal....hence my belief in it. Thats why no respose is telling in my eyes.

[fredbob]

The fact that they tried to smear his name via the media with reports of wanting Lampard and players like that should tell you everything you need to know, or at least make you suspicious.

 

Dont hear many denials though....seems like a strange smear if it wasnt true....as despicable as the smear was something about it rings true with me, it just seemed far too specific.

 

You dont respect Keegan for not wanting to get into a childish mud-slinging match through the press ?

Two ways of looking at it. I prefer to assume Keegan wouldnt lower himself to such levels.

 

Thats not the point though - the point was whether it was true or if it isnt - the nature of the "leak" suggest to me that it was true which is why you have to ask yourself was keegan really rowing in the same direction as the club reagrading transfer policies - and if not - why? and what should the boards response be if it IS the case?

 

To me the only response would be to sack Keegan or undermine him.

 

I don't get where you're coming from with this leak stuff.

 

Whose to say it was even a leak? Could it not just be media 2+2=48?

 

Even if it was a leak, it stinks of trying to save face and paint KK out to be the bad guy to try and win fans back.

 

 

 

the bottom line is that the article is dangerously close to being slanderous if its not true, which im sure you know is illegal....hence my belief in it. Thats why no respose is telling in my eyes.

 

By that logic, 90% of what you read in the sports pages these days must be verging on illegal.

 

So you believe everything you read in the paper, because if it isn't true it's close to being slanderous. Clubs leak things like this every day of the week to newspapers.

 

Do you know what slander and defamation is?

[NJS]

Do you know what slander and defamation is?

 

What some people have done in this thread and should be ashamed of themselves for doing so.

 

 

[GM]

 

This the core point though - sometimes you have to wade through the s*** and trust your instinct - I think Kevin Keegan deserves more than some people in this thread are prepared to give him.

 

Instincts are good but I don't trust mine at the minute. 

 

Keegan has done a lot for us in the past both as player and manager.  On the other side of that we have an owner who claims to have bought the club so that he can go to the games with his kids and does so and acts like any other father taking his kids so appearances tie in with his claims.  He's also been partially involved with bringing Keegan back, if only by rubber stamping the deal.  Why would he try to undermine the manager he brought to the club?  My instinct tells me that he would have no reason for doing so.

 

Like you Mick, I'm not sure I can really trust my instincts at the moment either. But the only "rational" theory of why Ashley would seek to undermine the man he brought back to the club is one of sheer daft inexperience when it comes to footballing matters, i.e. he acted in a misguided manner, wanted to curry favour with the Geordie faithful, and played his trump card straight away. Misguided ultimately, but not malicious in its original intent. Circumstances - the reality of working with Keegan on a day to day basis - have obviously changed over the intervening 8 months, up to the point that conflict was inevitable - and we know the rest now much to our collective misery.

 

Other than that, the only other reason I've been able to come up with why Ashley would seek to undermine Keegan is that Ashley, as a Spurs fan, has been on a wrecking mission from day one, and that this whole episode has been a ridiculous charade designed to smash the club to bits from top to bottom. And frankly, that doesn't make much sense either, so you have to discard that idea completely.

 

Throughout the past few weeks I've not comfortable with the line being adopted by so many people which simply just venerates Keegan as an actual Messiah rather than as just a polemical one. Some people's unquestioning adoration of the man is just bordering on the psychotic - and it just leaves me feeling uneasy. Yes, I love the man too, but not with such a completely uncritical and subjective eye as some, who without any thought have just assumed he would never act selfishly, would never be so rash as to hurt the club or the fans he loves so much. Maybe questioning that makes me a lesser or unworthy fan in the eyes of certain people. All I know is however much I admire Keegan, my love for the club still extends far beyond whatever (considerable) respect I have for him and all he's done for this club, and I would much rather he'd walked after the pre-season friendly at Doncaster, when he looked just about downcast and dejected as possible.

 

What concerns me most is that in the current economic, and let's face it political, climate - NUFC is nowhere near as investable as to be worth the vast sums Ashley is purported to be wanting for it. He's clearly going to be around for a while, and we're clearly not going to have a decent manager (by which I mean someone able to rally the troops and improve morale and the quality of play) anytime soon.

[fredbob]

The fact that they tried to smear his name via the media with reports of wanting Lampard and players like that should tell you everything you need to know, or at least make you suspicious.

 

Dont hear many denials though....seems like a strange smear if it wasnt true....as despicable as the smear was something about it rings true with me, it just seemed far too specific.

 

You dont respect Keegan for not wanting to get into a childish mud-slinging match through the press ?

Two ways of looking at it. I prefer to assume Keegan wouldnt lower himself to such levels.

 

Thats not the point though - the point was whether it was true or if it isnt - the nature of the "leak" suggest to me that it was true which is why you have to ask yourself was keegan really rowing in the same direction as the club reagrading transfer policies - and if not - why? and what should the boards response be if it IS the case?

 

To me the only response would be to sack Keegan or undermine him.

 

I don't get where you're coming from with this leak stuff.

 

Whose to say it was even a leak? Could it not just be media 2+2=48?

 

Even if it was a leak, it stinks of trying to save face and paint KK out to be the bad guy to try and win fans back.

 

 

 

the bottom line is that the article is dangerously close to being slanderous if its not true, which im sure you know is illegal....hence my belief in it. Thats why no respose is telling in my eyes.

 

By that logic, 90% of what you read in the sports pages these days must be verging on illegal.

 

So you believe everything you read in the paper, because if it isn't true it's close to being slanderous. Clubs leak things like this every day of the week to newspapers.

 

Do you know what slander and defamation is?

 

Yes, I know fine well, thank you.

 

Saying a manger who has just resigned wanted to buy certain world superstars is far from slander, and even if it is a leak from the club, KK is a bigger man than to respond.

 

We've seen plenty of ineptness when it comes to the club dealing with the media, so I have no reason to believe a word they come out with at the minute.

 

I guess is where we take seprate paths and say goodbye - for me the nature of the article was pretty slanderous - it was in essence calling him delusional and off his rocker.

 

I guess thats where i base my arguments from - maybe im wrong.

[NJS]

GM I think there two issues - Ashley put some people in place and sat back - you mention day to day dealings but I don't think that;s how it worked. I see Ashley's "crimes" in terms of negligence and appointing the personnel. Its the actual personnel who in my opinion undermined Keegan and again this was allowed to happen by Ashley.

[Guest northwestmag1892]

The fact that they tried to smear his name via the media with reports of wanting Lampard and players like that should tell you everything you need to know, or at least make you suspicious.

 

Dont hear many denials though....seems like a strange smear if it wasnt true....as despicable as the smear was something about it rings true with me, it just seemed far too specific.

 

You dont respect Keegan for not wanting to get into a childish mud-slinging match through the press ?

Two ways of looking at it. I prefer to assume Keegan wouldnt lower himself to such levels.

 

Thats not the point though - the point was whether it was true or if it isnt - the nature of the "leak" suggest to me that it was true which is why you have to ask yourself was keegan really rowing in the same direction as the club reagrading transfer policies - and if not - why? and what should the boards response be if it IS the case?

 

To me the only response would be to sack Keegan or undermine him.

 

I don't get where you're coming from with this leak stuff.

 

Whose to say it was even a leak? Could it not just be media 2+2=48?

 

Even if it was a leak, it stinks of trying to save face and paint KK out to be the bad guy to try and win fans back.

 

 

 

the bottom line is that the article is dangerously close to being slanderous if its not true, which im sure you know is illegal....hence my belief in it. Thats why no respose is telling in my eyes.

 

By that logic, 90% of what you read in the sports pages these days must be verging on illegal.

 

So you believe everything you read in the paper, because if it isn't true it's close to being slanderous. Clubs leak things like this every day of the week to newspapers.

 

Do you know what slander and defamation is?

 

Do you know what you sound like when you asked that?

[Mick]

 

Like you Mick, I'm not sure I can really trust my instincts at the moment either. But the only "rational" theory of why Ashley would seek to undermine the man he brought back to the club is one of sheer daft inexperience when it comes to footballing matters, i.e. he acted in a misguided manner, wanted to curry favour with the Geordie faithful, and played his trump card straight away. Misguided ultimately, but not malicious in its original intent. Circumstances - the reality of working with Keegan on a day to day basis - have obviously changed over the intervening 8 months, up to the point that conflict was inevitable - and we know the rest now much to our collective misery.

 

Other than that, the only other reason I've been able to come up with why Ashley would seek to undermine Keegan is that Ashley, as a Spurs fan, has been on a wrecking mission from day one, and that this whole episode has been a ridiculous charade designed to smash the club to bits from top to bottom. And frankly, that doesn't make much sense either, so you have to discard that idea completely.

 

Throughout the past few weeks I've not comfortable with the line being adopted by so many people which simply just venerates Keegan as an actual Messiah rather than as just a polemical one. Some people's unquestioning adoration of the man is just bordering on the psychotic - and it just leaves me feeling uneasy. Yes, I love the man too, but not with such a completely uncritical and subjective eye as some, who without any thought have just assumed he would never act selfishly, would never be so rash as to hurt the club or the fans he loves so much. Maybe questioning that makes me a lesser or unworthy fan in the eyes of certain people. All I know is however much I admire Keegan, my love for the club still extends far beyond whatever (considerable) respect I have for him and all he's done for this club, and I would much rather he'd walked after the pre-season friendly at Doncaster, when he looked just about downcast and dejected as possible.

 

What concerns me most is that in the current economic, and let's face it political, climate - NUFC is nowhere near as investable as to be worth the vast sums Ashley is purported to be wanting for it. He's clearly going to be around for a while, and we're clearly not going to have a decent manager (by which I mean someone able to rally the troops and improve morale and the quality of play) anytime soon.

 

Good post. 

[Mick]

GM I think there two issues - Ashley put some people in place and sat back - you mention day to day dealings but I don't think that;s how it worked. I see Ashley's "crimes" in terms of negligence and appointing the personnel. Its the actual personnel who in my opinion undermined Keegan and again this was allowed to happen by Ashley.

 

So have we as fans aimed at the wrong person in all of this and by doing so taken the heat off those responsible?

 

I think we have.

 

[NJS]

GM I think there two issues - Ashley put some people in place and sat back - you mention day to day dealings but I don't think that;s how it worked. I see Ashley's "crimes" in terms of negligence and appointing the personnel. Its the actual personnel who in my opinion undermined Keegan and again this was allowed to happen by Ashley.

 

So have we as fans aimed at the wrong person in all of this and by doing so taken the heat off those responsible?

 

I think we have.

 

 

No I think the fans have quite rightly been critical of both Ashley and his team. I think people put the blame for the appointments and the lack of transfer funds at Ashley's door and the blame for falling out with Keegan at the others which is the way I see it as well.

 

 

[fredbob]

The fact that they tried to smear his name via the media with reports of wanting Lampard and players like that should tell you everything you need to know, or at least make you suspicious.

 

Dont hear many denials though....seems like a strange smear if it wasnt true....as despicable as the smear was something about it rings true with me, it just seemed far too specific.

 

You dont respect Keegan for not wanting to get into a childish mud-slinging match through the press ?

Two ways of looking at it. I prefer to assume Keegan wouldnt lower himself to such levels.

 

Thats not the point though - the point was whether it was true or if it isnt - the nature of the "leak" suggest to me that it was true which is why you have to ask yourself was keegan really rowing in the same direction as the club reagrading transfer policies - and if not - why? and what should the boards response be if it IS the case?

 

To me the only response would be to sack Keegan or undermine him.

 

I don't get where you're coming from with this leak stuff.

 

Whose to say it was even a leak? Could it not just be media 2+2=48?

 

Even if it was a leak, it stinks of trying to save face and paint KK out to be the bad guy to try and win fans back.

 

 

 

the bottom line is that the article is dangerously close to being slanderous if its not true, which im sure you know is illegal....hence my belief in it. Thats why no respose is telling in my eyes.

 

By that logic, 90% of what you read in the sports pages these days must be verging on illegal.

 

So you believe everything you read in the paper, because if it isn't true it's close to being slanderous. Clubs leak things like this every day of the week to newspapers.

 

Do you know what slander and defamation is?

 

Do you know what you sound like when you asked that?

 

Like a cunt.

[ChezGiven]

Those saying KK should have stuck with it, what for? You still wouldn't get your everything is alright club yous are blaming him for dismantling by walking out, if anything it would get even worse. He can't win. He stays he's weak, he's lost it, he's here for the money. He goes he's week, he's lost it, he's left us in the shit. Again fuck off!

 

He stays he's weak? Rubbish, if he stays he's in charge and working with the players who are, for the most part, the players he inherited in January who he believed in then. Hence his transfer policy in the January window.

 

He stays and he rises above it and goes for it. It was a chance to go for something this season. We'd be on 8 points now if he'd stayed. 

[ChezGiven]

I love the way Keegan is supposed to put up with whatever intefering crap comes his way and making a stand against it is a massive failure on his part. might be more instructive to look at the sort of interfering crap he had to put up with as the root cause. the situation wouldve blown up sooner or later, keegan thought he could fight it from within while the window was open - he couldnt, so he left. now we have to get on with it and appoint a new boss, except we cant cos ashley wants out at the first sign of trouble.

 

And it REALLY took until late-night on September 1st before he realised enough was enough?

 

i think ive addressed that in my previous two posts. it's no coincidence that things came to a head as the transfer window closed.

 

And he had enough time between that point, and walking out the next morning, to talk to Ashley and tell him what he thought about it all did he? If he'd walked around about the 5th-6th September, fair enough. But he didn't even wait for Ashley to be back in the country to talk things over before he walked.

 

To be honest, those talks that Keegan & Ashley had in London last week should have been the first time Keegan even spoke about the word "resignation".

 

apparently llambias told him he was sacked and then acted like an arse towards him during subsequent negotiations. seems like the working relationship was simply untenable.

 

Nothing has ever been verified, its all been rumour and speculation. You cant decide on that basis.

[ChezGiven]

I love the way Keegan is supposed to put up with whatever intefering crap comes his way and making a stand against it is a massive failure on his part. might be more instructive to look at the sort of interfering crap he had to put up with as the root cause. the situation wouldve blown up sooner or later, keegan thought he could fight it from within while the window was open - he couldnt, so he left. now we have to get on with it and appoint a new boss, except we cant cos ashley wants out at the first sign of trouble.

 

And it REALLY took until late-night on September 1st before he realised enough was enough?

 

Yes, he waited to see how transfer deadline day panned out.

 

Aye, the fucking master of timing isnt he. Could it have been worse?

 

No.

[ChezGiven]

The fact that they tried to smear his name via the media with reports of wanting Lampard and players like that should tell you everything you need to know, or at least make you suspicious.

 

Dont hear many denials though....seems like a strange smear if it wasnt true....as despicable as the smear was something about it rings true with me, it just seemed far too specific.

 

KK was never going to go tit for tat, the very fact he's kept quiet and been civil in all of this while the other lot have resorted to smear campaigns and fob stories doesn't paint KK in bad light, just themselves. KK would be a mug to respond to clear and utter s****. Anyone believing he was after Lampard et al wanna buy a winning lottery ticket off me?

 

Wake up FFS.

 

Keegan has been putting smear stories into the press himself since at least May 08. Unless you want to think Ashley was smearing himself? Maybe you do, you smear yourself in shit quite often.

[Baggio]

I love the way Keegan is supposed to put up with whatever intefering crap comes his way and making a stand against it is a massive failure on his part. might be more instructive to look at the sort of interfering crap he had to put up with as the root cause. the situation wouldve blown up sooner or later, keegan thought he could fight it from within while the window was open - he couldnt, so he left. now we have to get on with it and appoint a new boss, except we cant cos ashley wants out at the first sign of trouble.

 

And it REALLY took until late-night on September 1st before he realised enough was enough?

 

i think ive addressed that in my previous two posts. it's no coincidence that things came to a head as the transfer window closed.

 

And he had enough time between that point, and walking out the next morning, to talk to Ashley and tell him what he thought about it all did he? If he'd walked around about the 5th-6th September, fair enough. But he didn't even wait for Ashley to be back in the country to talk things over before he walked.

 

To be honest, those talks that Keegan & Ashley had in London last week should have been the first time Keegan even spoke about the word "resignation".

 

apparently llambias told him he was sacked and then acted like an arse towards him during subsequent negotiations. seems like the working relationship was simply untenable.

 

Jackanory called, Johnny. He said he wants his book back.

[cp40]

GM I think there two issues - Ashley put some people in place and sat back - you mention day to day dealings but I don't think that;s how it worked. I see Ashley's "crimes" in terms of negligence and appointing the personnel. Its the actual personnel who in my opinion undermined Keegan and again this was allowed to happen by Ashley.

 

 

this for me is an accurate statement of what happened

[Karjala]

Cant blame someone for not wanting to put up with people fuckin about behind his back.

 

Doesnt matter whether you work in a supermarket or run a bank.

[Thespence]

I love the way Keegan is supposed to put up with whatever intefering crap comes his way and making a stand against it is a massive failure on his part. might be more instructive to look at the sort of interfering crap he had to put up with as the root cause. the situation wouldve blown up sooner or later, keegan thought he could fight it from within while the window was open - he couldnt, so he left. now we have to get on with it and appoint a new boss, except we cant cos ashley wants out at the first sign of trouble.

 

And it REALLY took until late-night on September 1st before he realised enough was enough?

 

Yes, he waited to see how transfer deadline day panned out.

 

Aye, the f***ing master of timing isnt he. Could it have been worse?

 

No.

 

He had faith in Dennis, TJ & Jeff to deliver, after all he had been backing them all summer in the press & media . Then they deliver a loan signing & Xisco.

[alpal78]

 

It is easily countered.

 

He was happy to try and work it out over the summer in the hope that the setup would provide the players he needed.

When the setup fails miserably in providing the LB, cover RB, RW,  and AM, whilst also selling a good RW, I think that is reason to "push someone over the edge" as it transpires.

 

Who exactly is this mythical good RW that we sold that you keep referring to? Milner good RW?....well done you just discredited your whole post 

 

and yes before you ask even Geremi is better than Milner (at least in providing assists) 

[Guest paddy]

Kevin Keegan is a coward.

 

He's deserted us, betrayed our trust, and left us for dead. "If" we are relegated this season, he should be remembered as one of the great villains in club history.

 

I don't care how bad the situation was. There was no justification for walking out when he did. It's simply a case of him putting his pride (or principles, or whatever you want to call it) before the good of the club he claimed to love. What situation if any would convince YOU to resign as manager of Newcastle United on September 1st? He should have never taken the job in the first place, walked out the moment he was undermined in the transfer window, or saw out the season.

 

For those of you who say he couldn't have known what would happen. Really? Is it that hard to imagine that KK walking out would cause massive fan discontent, which would make Ashley's position untenable? Many of us on the board were predicting the exact situation we are in now the moment the news broke.

 

For those of you who say he simply had his bluff called by Ashley and never really meant to leave. That changes nothing, the fact is, at any point he could have come to his senses, swallowed his pride, and come back.

 

 

Now, I'm not saying that the blame for our current crisis lies solely on KK's door. He and Ashley and Wise/Vertre/Llambias are all equally culpable.

 

But you know what? I don't hold those other people to the same standards I used to hold KK. I trusted that man absolutely, unconditionally, unequivocally. He's betrayed that trust and left us in freefall.

 

He's gone down in my estimation.

 

 

what the fuck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!