Fans to blame? F*ck off!

[NJS]

the stats is a very relevant point to be fair - he is a mediocre manager, he doesnt havent a record which is that much better than the likes of Curbishly, Allardyce, Veneable even Mclaren has more solid achievemnts than him.

 

Can you quote the seasons when any of those got within a million miles (or 4 points) of winning the title?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

I like the way you specify the number of points we were from winning. Goes to show how threadbare your argument actually is.

 

Okay one place, two games, 4 days anyway you like - explain how those managers have achieved as much as KK did.

 

We all know Keegan was/is "over" emotional - that's one of the reasons why he connected with the fans so its okay to comment on it but comparing what he did with non-entities and football murderers shows you've completely missed what he did.

 

At a  time when so many people are simply falling out of love with football, Keegan was the perfect antidote to that. In the cold light of day its possible that someone more clinical could have and still will be "better" for the club in the medium/long term but this sniping at a man who has done more for Newcastle United than  anyone in my lifetime is absolutely pathetic.

 

 

 

 

[magorific]

the stats is a very relevant point to be fair - he is a mediocre manager, he doesnt havent a record which is that much better than the likes of Curbishly, Allardyce, Veneable even Mclaren has more solid achievemnts than him.

 

Can you quote the seasons when any of those got within a million miles (or 4 points) of winning the title?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

I like the way you specify the number of points we were from winning. Goes to show how threadbare your argument actually is.

 

Okay one place, two games, 4 days anyway you like - explain how those managers have achieved as much as KK did.

 

We all know Keegan was/is "over" emotional - that's one of the reasons why he connected with the fans so its okay to comment on it but comparing what he did with non-entities and football murderers shows you've completely missed what he did.

 

At a  time when so many people are simply falling out of love with football, Keegan was the perfect antidote to that. In the cold light of day its possible that someone more clinical could have and still will be "better" for the club in the medium/long term but this sniping at a man who has done more for Newcastle United than  anyone in my lifetime is absolutely pathetic.

 

 

 

 

 

Spot on. Of course KK is a flawed personality, but as flawed as the decision to appoint Wise as a director of football with the power (which KK HADN'T been informed about) to take unilateral decisions on transfers? Nowhere f***ing near.

[merlin]

 

Of course NUFC fans are f***ing delusional, they still have no f***ing idea how much damage they've done to this club.

 

 

IF Ashley cannot sell NUFC  and the club goes down, you will be proved right especially about damaging the club.

 

On the other hand, any new owners will know that they cant take NUFC over  and f*** about with the fans and take them for granted like Mike Ashley and his mates did.

This could and should  ultimately result  in us getting a more stable club that is ran in a far more professional manner than what it ever was under  Mike Ashleys "team" of non communicators. 

 

 

 

 

Nufc fans will only take to an owner who's gonna lavish them with transfer funds - they're too impatient to see a long term policy and system take shape especially at the expense of a statistically mediocre manager. How many Abramovich's are there out there? Theres something like 2000 billlionaires out there, how many do you think would be keen to blow there money on nufc? A club which now has a history of forcing out the previous incumbents, maybe even 2 of them.

 

How many of these billoinaires at a guess do you think would be keen to own a club where the fans are more powerful than the man with the purse strings?

 

Im still unsure how you've come to the conclusion that he's taken the fans for granted.

 

As for your final dig - the club spends its entire tenure keeping a privacy shield away from the media and with that also the fans and the club is congratulated for keeping out the poisonous press, but the fans couldnt wait 2 weeks to see how things transpired before the club made a statement and is lambasted for the lack of communication.....damned if you do, damned if you dont.

 

You really couldnt make it up.

 

Rubbish, frankly.

Was there any sign or sound of fans' revolt in the air in the last few weeks of last season? The majority were happy we seemed to be making slow but steady progress under Keegan, with the promise of the squad being significantly - but NOT spectacularly - in the summer.

It wasn't. KK felt betrayed. So do the fans.

 

Why would we look to revolt at the end of last season? If you're trying to say that nufc fans would be happy with an owner who has a long term plan for the club with slow steady progress, then what was wrong with Ashley's plan?

 

Putting aside the still unknown circumstances of Keegans departures, what problems did you see with a club who looked to invest in younger players from around the whole of europe and not just the big clubs of the major leagues, looking to develop them and making them stars for the club?

 

I am more than happy to admit i was very dissapointed with the lack of acitvity surrounding this club - however with a club that was rowing in seperate directions i can see, but not understand why we had so little activity.

 

EDIT: The sad fact of this case is that the fans are using the lack of numbers as another stick to beat Ashley with (which they are well within there rights) but are conviniently forgetting that the clubs squad has dramatically improved.  Which was more important out the 2?

 

Put it simply, would you rather have a good sized squad with similar quality to last year or would you rather have a similar sizeds squad which was better than last year?

 

I know which is more important - you have to ask yourself if you do and if you do you'll understand where you arguments fall down.

 

Only just logged back on now, so apologies for late reply.

Of course there is nothing wrong with a plan to curb over-spending on trophy signings and search for talented youngsters worldwide.

But Ashley pursued that plan with men totally ill equipped to follow Arsenal's lead. Dennis f*****g Wise and an ex Chelsea steward ffs.

Had he put a Frank Arneson type in to do the job of finding talent, we'd have found some worth having, Keegan would still be here and the fans would be saying nowt. As it is, Ashley's stuck by men who have unearthed precious little in the way of decent young talent (Kadar aside, perhaps) and made one undeniably good senior signing (Gutierrez), while ignoring blatant shortcomings (lack of full-backs, creative midfielders) in a squad that you, bizarrely, claim has been "dramatically" strengthened.

That's not to mention that Ashley himself was promising corporate fans a "wow" signing before the close of the transfer window.....

 

 

Hold on - so you dont think the squad has improved dramatically? By getting rid of a few personnel the squad improved - by adding 6 players of which at least 4 look to be good quality in my book is quite a dramatic improvment especially since we havent had a transfer window equal to this since the days of SBR (in terms of quality).

 

How you can therefore castigate a transfer team based on that strength of evidence, to the extent you think they should leave the club, ill never know. Think about it.

 

Yes, they did make mistakes and they did not address certain positions, that we know of (remeber Keegan was very optimistic after the Milner sale saying 3-4 players were in the pipeline - who's to say the positions were being addressed but didnt come off?), but they did the number one thing that needed doing and they improved the quality of the squad. You also have to rememeber that Keegan seemed to buckle on the last day of the season and was unhappy with having either Xisco or Nacho hoisted onto him, there was no suggestion that he was unhappy with the lack of personnel at certain positions, making me believe that you are looking for another stick to beat Ashley with.

 

The bottom line is that we finally seem to have a system which did seem to be paying dividends in its first season together but we still value the whims of a statisitcally mediocre manager over the direction of the club and that for me is unbelievable.

 

No, the squad has NOT 'improved dramatically'..

 

We have obtained 2 - yes, TWO - players, Coloccini and Gutierrez, who LOOK to be an improvement on what we had...N'Zogbia has gone backwards(probably because he is being played out of position ), Taylor has NOT improved, Guthrie is no better than most bog-standard Prem midfielders ; we have two snail-paced players in Cacapa & Geremi, Butt is ageing and, like an old predatory animal, paying the penalty for being no longer quick enough to catch its prey...

After a promising start at OT, Given has once again showed frailties in his 'keeping and we have lost a promising England U-21 player, albeit for a large fee(which cannot be spent until Jan, and probably not then, unless it is wasted because nobody worth their salt wants to join NUFC...)

We have ONE recognized LB(a position KK wanted to strengthen and was let down by the wonderful 'Continental' System that was supposed to support him), and the morale of the squad couldn't be worse ; the best player on the club's books(Owen) is despised by many so-called 'supporters',and despite showing his professionalism in a horrendous set of circumstances , is likely to be off in January....

 

We have NO prospect of major improvement until end of season, by which time the club could be in the Championship...

 

Anyone who thinks the squad has 'improved dramatically' is in dreamland.

WE ARE HEADING FOR RELEGATION UNLESS A MIRACLE OCCURS.

[toonpete1892]

A month ago we went into a game against arsenal when everything appeared fine. Arsenal played us off the park but there was still thousands of smiling faces in the away end, including a beer gulping owner. 4 weeks on and nothing can raise even a grin.

 

Theres no hiding that there was problems but I honestly feel these could have been sorted (comprimises made) by all the parties involved. Instead, we got mass media coverage and thousands of fans jumping on keegans back to offer his support. I don't disgree with this but to come out and slag the owner just to prove a point is childish - there was some major spitting out of dummies. Ashley was new to the football owner scheme and although errors had and were being made, a lot was progressing nicely and results were starting to be seen.

 

We now to come to the morning after the spurs disappointment and we can't fall much deeper into this pit, surely there must be a bottom to break our necks on. A month on from a seemously happy club, we now have a club in absolute turmoil, with no direction, drive or ambhition. The thousands of bed sheet holding 'fans' who wanted to make a stand succeeded in doing so. But what have they succeeded in doing so? Alright ashley has been scared and agreed to sell up, but the 'cockey mafia' are still fully here, keegan has not been reinstated, the players performances have dropped dramatically and the support for the team is quite frankly a piss take. We are now out of the carling cup and joint bottom of the league with joke spurs, when we could quite of easily been playing poorly in the middle of the league under a new manager.

 

To those fans who thought a mere protest would just see ashley and wise gone, i hope you're fucking proud of yourselves. I hope you soon turn your back on the club and piss off for good because newcastle united doesn't need impatient fans with bed sheets. You protested and 'won', newcastle united have in the meantime and in the mere furutre have lost out dramatically.

 

 

[magorific]

A month ago we went into a game against arsenal when everything appeared fine. Arsenal played us off the park but there was still thousands of smiling faces in the away end, including a beer gulping owner. 4 weeks on and nothing can raise even a grin.

 

Theres no hiding that there was problems but I honestly feel these could have been sorted (comprimises made) by all the parties involved. Instead, we got mass media coverage and thousands of fans jumping on keegans back to offer his support. I don't disgree with this but to come out and slag the owner just to prove a point is childish - there was some major spitting out of dummies. Ashley was new to the football owner scheme and although errors had and were being made, a lot was progressing nicely and results were starting to be seen.

 

We now to come to the morning after the spurs disappointment and we can't fall much deeper into this pit, surely there must be a bottom to break our necks on. A month on from a seemously happy club, we now have a club in absolute turmoil, with no direction, drive or ambhition. The thousands of bed sheet holding 'fans' who wanted to make a stand succeeded in doing so. But what have they succeeded in doing so? Alright ashley has been scared and agreed to sell up, but the 'cockey mafia' are still fully here, keegan has not been reinstated, the players performances have dropped dramatically and the support for the team is quite frankly a piss take. We are now out of the carling cup and joint bottom of the league with joke spurs, when we could quite of easily been playing poorly in the middle of the league under a new manager.

 

To those fans who thought a mere protest would just see ashley and wise gone, i hope you're f***ing proud of yourselves. I hope you soon turn your back on the club and piss off for good because newcastle united doesn't need impatient fans with bed sheets. You protested and 'won', newcastle united have in the meantime and in the mere furutre have lost out dramatically.

 

 

 

What, we will have "lost out dramatically" by getting rid of a bloke who thinks a part-time director of football with f*** all qualifications for the job should sign players against our manager's wishes???

Yes, we're in a mess, but it's of Ashley's making.

 

[AyeDubbleYoo]

A month ago we went into a game against arsenal when everything appeared fine. Arsenal played us off the park but there was still thousands of smiling faces in the away end, including a beer gulping owner. 4 weeks on and nothing can raise even a grin.

 

Theres no hiding that there was problems but I honestly feel these could have been sorted (comprimises made) by all the parties involved. Instead, we got mass media coverage and thousands of fans jumping on keegans back to offer his support. I don't disgree with this but to come out and slag the owner just to prove a point is childish - there was some major spitting out of dummies. Ashley was new to the football owner scheme and although errors had and were being made, a lot was progressing nicely and results were starting to be seen.

 

We now to come to the morning after the spurs disappointment and we can't fall much deeper into this pit, surely there must be a bottom to break our necks on. A month on from a seemously happy club, we now have a club in absolute turmoil, with no direction, drive or ambhition. The thousands of bed sheet holding 'fans' who wanted to make a stand succeeded in doing so. But what have they succeeded in doing so? Alright ashley has been scared and agreed to sell up, but the 'cockey mafia' are still fully here, keegan has not been reinstated, the players performances have dropped dramatically and the support for the team is quite frankly a piss take. We are now out of the carling cup and joint bottom of the league with joke spurs, when we could quite of easily been playing poorly in the middle of the league under a new manager.

 

To those fans who thought a mere protest would just see ashley and wise gone, i hope you're fucking proud of yourselves. I hope you soon turn your back on the club and piss off for good because newcastle united doesn't need impatient fans with bed sheets. You protested and 'won', newcastle united have in the meantime and in the mere furutre have lost out dramatically.

 

I agree, we get the club we deserve sometimes.

 

The OP has a point obviously, the fans aren't 'to blame' as such, but we've certainly led to the escalation of what might have been managed as a minor incident into a complete disaster for the club.

[fredbob]

fredbob there's just on thing I don't quite understand. Now that "the squad has improved dramatically" and we have relieved ourselves of a "mediocre manager" who was obviously holding us back, why do we keep losing abjectly to poor teams? Is this still part of the "long term plan for the club with slow steady progress"? Am I just missing some subtle part of the plan here?

 

Im not sure ive ever had a post from you which actually gets the crux of any of my points. "obvioudly holding us back"?? Where have i said that then? You've made that up, and that is the crux of your entire post. So basically a non post - well done.

[fredbob]

the stats is a very relevant point to be fair - he is a mediocre manager, he doesnt havent a record which is that much better than the likes of Curbishly, Allardyce, Veneable even Mclaren has more solid achievemnts than him.

 

Can you quote the seasons when any of those got within a million miles (or 4 points) of winning the title?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

I like the way you specify the number of points we were from winning. Goes to show how threadbare your argument actually is.

 

Okay one place, two games, 4 days anyway you like - explain how those managers have achieved as much as KK did.

 

We all know Keegan was/is "over" emotional - that's one of the reasons why he connected with the fans so its okay to comment on it but comparing what he did with non-entities and football murderers shows you've completely missed what he did.

 

At a time when so many people are simply falling out of love with football, Keegan was the perfect antidote to that. In the cold light of day its possible that someone more clinical could have and still will be "better" for the club in the medium/long term but this sniping at a man who has done more for Newcastle United than anyone in my lifetime is absolutely pathetic.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, i was gonna edit my last post - becasue i didnt want people to think i was anti keegan and go down a whole different debate, my major point and the point of this whole thread is that maybe the fans have thought with there hearts and not there heads - they've blindly backed a manager with a not so great managerial record with no facts and by doing that have sacrificed the remotest possiblty of seeing what i think is a good much needed long term plan come anywhere near into fruition. I think thats why maybe the media are half correct by calling us impatient and delusional becasue theres an definitive element of 'not seeing the wood for the trees'.

 

EDIT: another who's  proved my point - thinking with their hearts not there heads- by that token of sentimentality Shepherad et al are untouchable in your eyes as there achievments HAVE to be paralleled with Keegans.

[UV]

fredbob there's just on thing I don't quite understand. Now that "the squad has improved dramatically" and we have relieved ourselves of a "mediocre manager" who was obviously holding us back, why do we keep losing abjectly to poor teams? Is this still part of the "long term plan for the club with slow steady progress"? Am I just missing some subtle part of the plan here?

 

Im not sure ive ever had a post from you which actually gets the crux of any of my points. "obvioudly holding us back"?? Where have i said that then? You've made that up, and that is the crux of your entire post. So basically a non post - well done.

 

so i'd say that for the best interests of the club Keegan should definitely of left

 

If you don't think having a "mediocre manager" as you call Keegan would hold us back, then you have an even more deluded faith in Ashley and his "structure" than I thought.

[magorific]

the stats is a very relevant point to be fair - he is a mediocre manager, he doesnt havent a record which is that much better than the likes of Curbishly, Allardyce, Veneable even Mclaren has more solid achievemnts than him.

 

Can you quote the seasons when any of those got within a million miles (or 4 points) of winning the title?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

I like the way you specify the number of points we were from winning. Goes to show how threadbare your argument actually is.

 

Okay one place, two games, 4 days anyway you like - explain how those managers have achieved as much as KK did.

 

We all know Keegan was/is "over" emotional - that's one of the reasons why he connected with the fans so its okay to comment on it but comparing what he did with non-entities and football murderers shows you've completely missed what he did.

 

At a  time when so many people are simply falling out of love with football, Keegan was the perfect antidote to that. In the cold light of day its possible that someone more clinical could have and still will be "better" for the club in the medium/long term but this sniping at a man who has done more for Newcastle United than  anyone in my lifetime is absolutely pathetic.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, i was gonna edit my last post - becasue i didnt want people to think i was anti keegan and go down a whole different debate, my major point and the point of this whole thread is that maybe the fans have thought with there hearts and not there heads - they've blindly backed a manager with a not so great managerial record with no facts and by doing that have sacrificed the remotest possiblty of seeing what i think is a good much needed long term plan come anywhere near into fruition. I think thats why maybe the media are half correct by calling us impatient and delusional becasue theres an definitive element of 'not seeing the wood for the trees'.

 

EDIT: another who's  proved my point - thinking with their hearts not there heads- by that token of sentimentality Shepherad et al are untouchable in your eyes as there achievments HAVE to be paralleled with Keegans.

the stats is a very relevant point to be fair - he is a mediocre manager, he doesnt havent a record which is that much better than the likes of Curbishly, Allardyce, Veneable even Mclaren has more solid achievemnts than him.

 

Can you quote the seasons when any of those got within a million miles (or 4 points) of winning the title?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

I like the way you specify the number of points we were from winning. Goes to show how threadbare your argument actually is.

 

Okay one place, two games, 4 days anyway you like - explain how those managers have achieved as much as KK did.

 

We all know Keegan was/is "over" emotional - that's one of the reasons why he connected with the fans so its okay to comment on it but comparing what he did with non-entities and football murderers shows you've completely missed what he did.

 

At a  time when so many people are simply falling out of love with football, Keegan was the perfect antidote to that. In the cold light of day its possible that someone more clinical could have and still will be "better" for the club in the medium/long term but this sniping at a man who has done more for Newcastle United than  anyone in my lifetime is absolutely pathetic.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, i was gonna edit my last post - becasue i didnt want people to think i was anti keegan and go down a whole different debate, my major point and the point of this whole thread is that maybe the fans have thought with there hearts and not there heads - they've blindly backed a manager with a not so great managerial record with no facts and by doing that have sacrificed the remotest possiblty of seeing what i think is a good much needed long term plan come anywhere near into fruition. I think thats why maybe the media are half correct by calling us impatient and delusional becasue theres an definitive element of 'not seeing the wood for the trees'.

 

EDIT: another who's  proved my point - thinking with their hearts not there heads- by that token of sentimentality Shepherad et al are untouchable in your eyes as there achievments HAVE to be paralleled with Keegans.

the stats is a very relevant point to be fair - he is a mediocre manager, he doesnt havent a record which is that much better than the likes of Curbishly, Allardyce, Veneable even Mclaren has more solid achievemnts than him.

 

Can you quote the seasons when any of those got within a million miles (or 4 points) of winning the title?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

I like the way you specify the number of points we were from winning. Goes to show how threadbare your argument actually is.

 

Okay one place, two games, 4 days anyway you like - explain how those managers have achieved as much as KK did.

 

We all know Keegan was/is "over" emotional - that's one of the reasons why he connected with the fans so its okay to comment on it but comparing what he did with non-entities and football murderers shows you've completely missed what he did.

 

At a  time when so many people are simply falling out of love with football, Keegan was the perfect antidote to that. In the cold light of day its possible that someone more clinical could have and still will be "better" for the club in the medium/long term but this sniping at a man who has done more for Newcastle United than  anyone in my lifetime is absolutely pathetic.

 

 

 

 

 

Ok, i was gonna edit my last post - becasue i didnt want people to think i was anti keegan and go down a whole different debate, my major point and the point of this whole thread is that maybe the fans have thought with there hearts and not there heads - they've blindly backed a manager with a not so great managerial record with no facts and by doing that have sacrificed the remotest possiblty of seeing what i think is a good much needed long term plan come anywhere near into fruition. I think thats why maybe the media are half correct by calling us impatient and delusional becasue theres an definitive element of 'not seeing the wood for the trees'.

 

 

And my major point about your major point was that Ashley's was NOT a "good, much needed long-term plan" - because his plan was to let Dennis Wise overrule our manager on transfers.

 

 

 

 

[fredbob]

fredbob there's just on thing I don't quite understand. Now that "the squad has improved dramatically" and we have relieved ourselves of a "mediocre manager" who was obviously holding us back, why do we keep losing abjectly to poor teams? Is this still part of the "long term plan for the club with slow steady progress"? Am I just missing some subtle part of the plan here?

 

Im not sure ive ever had a post from you which actually gets the crux of any of my points. "obvioudly holding us back"?? Where have i said that then? You've made that up, and that is the crux of your entire post. So basically a non post - well done.

 

so i'd say that for the best interests of the club Keegan should definitely of left

 

Ahhh, out of context quoting - how refreshing. Nice change of pace to your usualy miss the point posts i suppose.

[fredbob]

 

And my major point about your major point was that Ashley's was NOT a "good, much needed long-term plan" - because his plan was to let Dennis Wise overrule our manager on transfers.

 

 

Which shows you choose to beleive the first of my 2 scenarios that i gave - whereas im probably a disciple of the second.

 

You have just as much evidence as i do regarding what actually went on at the club - yet you have blindly backed one man deifintitely over the other with absolutely no knowledge of the truth. I have probably chosen to back the other man becasue i believed in what he had planned for the club and i saw that as being more important than the whims of a manager who's managerial record doesnt warrant such blind faith.

 

You have chosen to back a manager purely and simply becasue of something he achieved 15 years ago for the club, and you believe that that is more imporant for the club in the long run.

 

The difference between our beliefs is that one has already dramatically changed the future of the club for no good reason and the other hasnt.

 

 

 

 

[UV]

fredbob there's just on thing I don't quite understand. Now that "the squad has improved dramatically" and we have relieved ourselves of a "mediocre manager" who was obviously holding us back, why do we keep losing abjectly to poor teams? Is this still part of the "long term plan for the club with slow steady progress"? Am I just missing some subtle part of the plan here?

 

Im not sure ive ever had a post from you which actually gets the crux of any of my points. "obvioudly holding us back"?? Where have i said that then? You've made that up, and that is the crux of your entire post. So basically a non post - well done.

 

so i'd say that for the best interests of the club Keegan should definitely of left

 

Ahhh, out of context quoting - how refreshing. Nice change of pace to your usualy miss the point posts i suppose.

 

I'm not sure if you think you're being clever by deliberately trying to avoid the question, but if you ever managed to structure a sentence so it made sense you might have better luck putting across some of your so called points.

 

Put some context around your words "for the best interests of the club Keegan should definitely of left" if you like, but perhaps you could also explain how having a "mediocre manager" as you call Keegan would not hold us back. I would expect results to immediately improve as the players were relieved of the mediocrity.

 

[magorific]

 

And my major point about your major point was that Ashley's was NOT a "good, much needed long-term plan" - because his plan was to let Dennis Wise overrule our manager on transfers.

 

 

Which shows you choose to beleive the first of my 2 scenarios that i gave - whereas im probably a disciple of the second.

 

You have just as much evidence as i do regarding what actually went on at the club - yet you have blindly backed one man deifintitely over the other with absolutely no knowledge of the truth. I have probably chosen to back the other man becasue i believed in what he had planned for the club and i saw that as being more important than the whims of a manager who's managerial record doesnt warrant such blind faith.

 

You have chosen to back a manager purely and simply becasue of something he achieved 15 years ago for the club, and you believe that that is more imporant for the club in the long run.

 

The difference between our beliefs is that one has already dramatically changed the future of the club for no good reason and the other hasnt.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not backing KK purely and simply because of events of 15 years ago, I'm backing him because all the evidence (including some fed to national Sunday papers by Ashley's camp a week or two into this saga) is that Keegan didn't get players he was promised in the final days of the window, and was landed with Gonzalez and Xisco instead.

 

Your final paragraph is just gibberish.

 

 

 

 

[TRon]

fredbob there's just on thing I don't quite understand. Now that "the squad has improved dramatically" and we have relieved ourselves of a "mediocre manager" who was obviously holding us back, why do we keep losing abjectly to poor teams? Is this still part of the "long term plan for the club with slow steady progress"? Am I just missing some subtle part of the plan here?

 

Im not sure ive ever had a post from you which actually gets the crux of any of my points. "obvioudly holding us back"?? Where have i said that then? You've made that up, and that is the crux of your entire post. So basically a non post - well done.

 

so i'd say that for the best interests of the club Keegan should definitely of left

 

Ahhh, out of context quoting - how refreshing. Nice change of pace to your usualy miss the point posts i suppose.

 

I'm not sure if you think you're being clever by deliberately trying to avoid the question, but if you ever managed to structure a sentence so it made sense you might have better luck putting across some of your so called points.

 

Put some context around your words "for the best interests of the club Keegan should definitely of left" if you like, but perhaps you could also explain how having a "mediocre manager" as you call Keegan would not hold us back. I would expect results to immediately improve as the players were relieved of the mediocrity.

 

 

Bit of a dubious argument that. I regard Keegan as a very good manager, but the results have been bad due to losing several key players to injury and suspension above all else. Keegan was struggling last season as well until Martins and Viduka returned to the first team.

[fredbob]

fredbob there's just on thing I don't quite understand. Now that "the squad has improved dramatically" and we have relieved ourselves of a "mediocre manager" who was obviously holding us back, why do we keep losing abjectly to poor teams? Is this still part of the "long term plan for the club with slow steady progress"? Am I just missing some subtle part of the plan here?

 

Im not sure ive ever had a post from you which actually gets the crux of any of my points. "obvioudly holding us back"?? Where have i said that then? You've made that up, and that is the crux of your entire post. So basically a non post - well done.

 

so i'd say that for the best interests of the club Keegan should definitely of left

 

Ahhh, out of context quoting - how refreshing. Nice change of pace to your usualy miss the point posts i suppose.

 

I'm not sure if you think you're being clever by deliberately trying to avoid the question, but if you ever managed to structure a sentence so it made sense you might have better luck putting across some of your so called points.

 

Put some context around your words "for the best interests of the club Keegan should definitely of left" if you like, but perhaps you could also explain how having a "mediocre manager" as you call Keegan would not hold us back. I would expect results to immediately improve as the players were relieved of the mediocrity.

 

 

Pointing out someones poor english? Very cute.

 

Well, if you read the bit around that quote you've highlighted you'd of seen that i was giving 2 scenarios which both sets of fans believe as the true account of what happened at the club. (i.e Keegan was undermined from the start or Keegan dragged his heals over the signings and didnt pick suitable targets himself). And you'd of seen that the outcome in both scenarios was that Keegan would/should of left, either he resigned becasue of his principles or he was forced due to not fitting in with the policy.

 

As his position seemed untenable for the system - it was in nufc best interest that keegan should of left. No way here am i implying that he was a shit manager who was holding us back, but that he just didnt fit in.

 

The bit about him being a mediocre manager is in reference to his record and blind backing in light of his record.

[Guest Phil K]

I was on holiday in Salou for the Hull game watching Sky Sports in a bar and got into an animated discussion with a Rangers fan and a Celtic fan over this very subject. The Rangers fan said we had got what we deserved, which I blew up at I asked how he and his fellow fans would react if Rangers had gone 50+ years without a trophy with crowds at the level they were - wouldn't they protest ? Fact is - I was playing devils advocate as I think the "Cockney Mafia" idiocy IS a major factor in the plummet in the teams perfomance.

[WhatTheFunk]

A month ago we went into a game against arsenal when everything appeared fine. Arsenal played us off the park but there was still thousands of smiling faces in the away end, including a beer gulping owner. 4 weeks on and nothing can raise even a grin.

 

Theres no hiding that there was problems but I honestly feel these could have been sorted (comprimises made) by all the parties involved. Instead, we got mass media coverage and thousands of fans jumping on keegans back to offer his support. I don't disgree with this but to come out and slag the owner just to prove a point is childish - there was some major spitting out of dummies. Ashley was new to the football owner scheme and although errors had and were being made, a lot was progressing nicely and results were starting to be seen.

 

We now to come to the morning after the spurs disappointment and we can't fall much deeper into this pit, surely there must be a bottom to break our necks on. A month on from a seemously happy club, we now have a club in absolute turmoil, with no direction, drive or ambhition. The thousands of bed sheet holding 'fans' who wanted to make a stand succeeded in doing so. But what have they succeeded in doing so? Alright ashley has been scared and agreed to sell up, but the 'cockey mafia' are still fully here, keegan has not been reinstated, the players performances have dropped dramatically and the support for the team is quite frankly a piss take. We are now out of the carling cup and joint bottom of the league with joke spurs, when we could quite of easily been playing poorly in the middle of the league under a new manager.

 

To those fans who thought a mere protest would just see ashley and wise gone, i hope you're f***ing proud of yourselves. I hope you soon turn your back on the club and piss off for good because newcastle united doesn't need impatient fans with bed sheets. You protested and 'won', newcastle united have in the meantime and in the mere furutre have lost out dramatically.

 

I agree, we get the club we deserve sometimes.

 

The OP has a point obviously, the fans aren't 'to blame' as such, but we've certainly led to the escalation of what might have been managed as a minor incident into a complete disaster for the club.

 

that sentence hits the nail on the head. it's the escalation that the fans are responsible for. sure you can't control masses, and you can't appear to be "lying" to them if you're the owner of their football club. it's obviously understandable that emotions will run high, and fans will want answers (as i do!!). we now find ourselves in a situation where we most probably will never get any answers, and what gets on my tits the most is the stance of the fanzines who are acting as self-appointed gate keepers - guardians of the football club.

 

the fact is, the club belongs to Ashley, and he WILL do what he wants with it, regardless (As he's already shown). So let's not make this harder for the team out on the pitch by going over the top.

[fredbob]

 

And my major point about your major point was that Ashley's was NOT a "good, much needed long-term plan" - because his plan was to let Dennis Wise overrule our manager on transfers.

 

 

Which shows you choose to beleive the first of my 2 scenarios that i gave - whereas im probably a disciple of the second.

 

You have just as much evidence as i do regarding what actually went on at the club - yet you have blindly backed one man deifintitely over the other with absolutely no knowledge of the truth. I have probably chosen to back the other man becasue i believed in what he had planned for the club and i saw that as being more important than the whims of a manager who's managerial record doesnt warrant such blind faith.

 

You have chosen to back a manager purely and simply becasue of something he achieved 15 years ago for the club, and you believe that that is more imporant for the club in the long run.

 

The difference between our beliefs is that one has already dramatically changed the future of the club for no good reason and the other hasnt.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not backing KK purely and simply because of events of 15 years ago, I'm backing him because all the evidence (including some fed to national Sunday papers by Ashley's camp a week or two into this saga) is that Keegan didn't get players he was promised in the final days of the window, and was landed with Gonzalez and Xisco instead.

 

Your final paragraph is just gibberish.

 

 

 

 

 

Sunday papers? Each paper has its own view and version of the events.

 

And if you say he didnt get the players he was promised - do you know the circumstances if which the players didnt join? Or are you assuming that Wise didnt fancy them and therefore didnt even bother going for them?

 

Im not, my basis of belief is not becasue x undrmined y, or y stabbed z in the back, its that i value the long term plan which Ashley seemed to be pitching over any individual at the club. Supposing, things did go smoother - we could have had Deschamps, we could have had Terim we could even have had Zico by now, would that of been such a resounding disaster?

 

To me, no.

[Dave]

Could have.

 

Sorry.

[fredbob]

Could have.

 

Sorry.

 

 

No problems.

[Guest Phil K]

Sunday papers? Each paper has its own view and version of the events.

 

And if you say he didnt get the players he was promised - do you know the circumstances if which the players didnt join? Or are you assuming that Wise didnt fancy them and therefore didnt even bother going for them?

 

Im not, my basis of belief is not becasue x undrmined y, or y stabbed z in the back, its that i value the long term plan which Ashley seemed to be pitching over any individual at the club. Supposing, things did go smoother - we could of had Deschamps, we could have had Terim we could even of had Zico by now, would that of been such a resounding disaster?

 

To me, no.

Good reading.

Agree with every word.

Made a pleasant change from so much pompous self-righteous garbage being spouted on here lately both on this subject and others

[jackyboy]

There is a possibility that Ashley has all the money he put into the club shown as preferential directors loans. He may just milk his money out and liquidate the club.  I'm not sure we've seen the worst of this scenario yet

[Guest Phil K]

There is a possibility that Ashley has all the money he put into the club shown as preferential directors loans. He may just milk his money out and liquidate the club.  I'm not sure we've seen the worst of this scenario yet

Thats a worrying thought.

And all the actions reported thus far seem to bear out your thoughts on this.

Spite can do unrecovererable damage.

[magorific]

 

And my major point about your major point was that Ashley's was NOT a "good, much needed long-term plan" - because his plan was to let Dennis Wise overrule our manager on transfers.

 

 

Which shows you choose to beleive the first of my 2 scenarios that i gave - whereas im probably a disciple of the second.

 

You have just as much evidence as i do regarding what actually went on at the club - yet you have blindly backed one man deifintitely over the other with absolutely no knowledge of the truth. I have probably chosen to back the other man becasue i believed in what he had planned for the club and i saw that as being more important than the whims of a manager who's managerial record doesnt warrant such blind faith.

 

You have chosen to back a manager purely and simply becasue of something he achieved 15 years ago for the club, and you believe that that is more imporant for the club in the long run.

 

The difference between our beliefs is that one has already dramatically changed the future of the club for no good reason and the other hasnt.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not backing KK purely and simply because of events of 15 years ago, I'm backing him because all the evidence (including some fed to national Sunday papers by Ashley's camp a week or two into this saga) is that Keegan didn't get players he was promised in the final days of the window, and was landed with Gonzalez and Xisco instead.

 

Your final paragraph is just gibberish.

 

 

 

 

 

Sunday papers? Each paper has its own view and version of the events.

 

And if you say he didnt get the players he was promised - do you know the circumstances if which the players didnt join? Or are you assuming that Wise didnt fancy them and therefore didnt even bother going for them?

 

Im not, my basis of belief is not becasue x undrmined y, or y stabbed z in the back, its that i value the long term plan which Ashley seemed to be pitching over any individual at the club. Supposing, things did go smoother - we could have had Deschamps, we could have had Terim we could even have had Zico by now, would that of been such a resounding disaster?

 

To me, no.

 

If Ashley allowed his director of football to overrule Deschamps, Terim or Zico on transfers, it would be a disaster, yes.