Joe the Man

[Neil]

He's Glen Roeder part 2. Good in the short term, probably a disaster in the long term. Joe himself said today we'd be nowhere without a good team. Watching us play the first thing you notice isnt tactics, its that the majority of the players we have are pretty damn good.

 

They weren't looking too clever when he first came in.

 

Aye, why was that again? Im sure something canny big had just happened.

 

Not the point. These good players were looking totally lost and lacked confidence, he's whipped them into shape and we look like a premiership football team again. Credit him for that.

 

Too right, I agree. Just like Roeder did. 

 

Some caretakers have done well, most don't, but its no reason to make a judgement either way. Every case is different.

 

 

 

Agree with the last bit in particular. Kinnear could lead Newcastle to a top 10 position and pushing towards Europe. It's entirely unpredictable.

[OzzieMandias]

I'll say it again, Kinnear f***ing out.

 

You lot are idiots if you think he is the answer full time.

 

He shouldnt be within a million miles of the job.  OK he's done alright but the loss to the Mackems and his subsequent "couldnt give a f*** about it" attitide and the numerous points dropped at home tell me all I need to know.

 

That's because once Kinnear's contract is up and we get a proper manager he's GUARANTEED to be successful obviously. Good spot 

 

OK, I conceed, give JFK the job full time.  See where that'll get us.

 

Or how about just let him get on with it till the season's up? FWIW I don't think he's the long term answer but he's done a good job in the circumstances. We are pretty well organised, the spirit is good, I just don't think it's fair to be sniping at this point.

 

This.

 

He came in when no one else would touch the job, steadied the ship, made us hard to beat, and is now starting to get results. We couldn't have asked for much more so far, really, even though he's obviously benefitting from low expectations. But there's plenty of the season left before making decisions about whether he should have the job in the longer term. His position, as ever, will probably depend on whether or to whom the club gets sold, but it's hardly surprising if Ashley feels grateful enough right now to stand by his man. And today of all days we should not be slagging him off.

[pedro111]

He's Glen Roeder part 2. Good in the short term, probably a disaster in the long term. Joe himself said today we'd be nowhere without a good team. Watching us play the first thing you notice isnt tactics, its that the majority of the players we have are pretty damn good.

 

They weren't looking too clever when he first came in.

 

Aye, why was that again? Im sure something canny big had just happened.

 

Not the point. These good players were looking totally lost and lacked confidence, he's whipped them into shape and we look like a premiership football team again. Credit him for that.

 

Too right, I agree. Just like Roeder did. 

 

Some caretakers have done well, most don't, but its no reason to make a judgement either way. Every case is different.

 

 

 

Agree with the last bit in particular. Kinnear could lead Newcastle to a top 10 position and pushing towards Europe. It's entirely unpredictable.

 

But he's garunteed to fail long term.  Its a fact.

[Neil]

He's Glen Roeder part 2. Good in the short term, probably a disaster in the long term. Joe himself said today we'd be nowhere without a good team. Watching us play the first thing you notice isnt tactics, its that the majority of the players we have are pretty damn good.

 

They weren't looking too clever when he first came in.

 

Aye, why was that again? Im sure something canny big had just happened.

 

Not the point. These good players were looking totally lost and lacked confidence, he's whipped them into shape and we look like a premiership football team again. Credit him for that.

 

Too right, I agree. Just like Roeder did. 

 

Some caretakers have done well, most don't, but its no reason to make a judgement either way. Every case is different.

 

 

 

Agree with the last bit in particular. Kinnear could lead Newcastle to a top 10 position and pushing towards Europe. It's entirely unpredictable.

 

But he's garunteed to fail long term.  Its a fact.

 

What a fantastic mentality.

[Guest firetotheworks]

He's Glen Roeder part 2. Good in the short term, probably a disaster in the long term. Joe himself said today we'd be nowhere without a good team. Watching us play the first thing you notice isnt tactics, its that the majority of the players we have are pretty damn good.

 

They weren't looking too clever when he first came in.

 

Aye, why was that again? Im sure something canny big had just happened.

 

Not the point. These good players were looking totally lost and lacked confidence, he's whipped them into shape and we look like a premiership football team again. Credit him for that.

 

Too right, I agree. Just like Roeder did. 

 

Some caretakers have done well, most don't, but its no reason to make a judgement either way. Every case is different.

 

 

 

My original point was that were doing well primarily because we have some very good players and Kinnears given them their confidence back imo, which he should be applauded for. Same as Roeder did in the short term and was applauded for. Long term I think tactics are going to have to come into it when our confidence is down and I dont think Kinnear has what it takes, again like Roeder. But like you say every case is different and time will tell.

[Kaizero]

Personally I think he's just become the scapegoat for people needing someone to blame for the late loss of points in certain games. Dare I say we just won a game by a late goal. Is Redknapp a tactically inept manager (well yes, but that's beside my point) because we scored the winner a few seconds before 90 minutes? As well as it being skill and calm about the goal, the game is also based a lot on luck. We got lucky, so did the ones that equalized against us. Even with or without Kinnear in charge I'd not think a lot had been different, all teams have bad luck from time to time. I won't blame the manager until we get beat week in week out, we're still on an unbeaten run, we play good football and the players actually seem to want to play together for Newcastle. Yet some of you do, for reasons I don't know. Sure, he'd not be my first choice as a permanent manager at the time of his appointment, but he's damn well done and doing a very good job turning me around. The player's like him, pick up points and don't have unecessary losses and they preform well under him, that's all I care about.

[pedro111]

He's Glen Roeder part 2. Good in the short term, probably a disaster in the long term. Joe himself said today we'd be nowhere without a good team. Watching us play the first thing you notice isnt tactics, its that the majority of the players we have are pretty damn good.

 

They weren't looking too clever when he first came in.

 

Aye, why was that again? Im sure something canny big had just happened.

 

Not the point. These good players were looking totally lost and lacked confidence, he's whipped them into shape and we look like a premiership football team again. Credit him for that.

 

Too right, I agree. Just like Roeder did. 

 

Some caretakers have done well, most don't, but its no reason to make a judgement either way. Every case is different.

 

 

 

Agree with the last bit in particular. Kinnear could lead Newcastle to a top 10 position and pushing towards Europe. It's entirely unpredictable.

 

But he's garunteed to fail long term.  Its a fact.

 

What a fantastic mentality.

 

Yep, its great isnt it?, anyone who thinks giving Kinnear the job full time will result in anything other than spending another 5 years in the football wilderness is having a laugh.

 

Im all for giving people a chance, just not desperate chancers who by some strange alignment of the planets couldnt believe his luck when he ended up in the job.

 

Its been said, hes Glenn Roeder mark 2 and no Everton fan will persuade me otherwise.

[Guest LucaAltieri]

He's Glen Roeder part 2. Good in the short term, probably a disaster in the long term. Joe himself said today we'd be nowhere without a good team. Watching us play the first thing you notice isnt tactics, its that the majority of the players we have are pretty damn good.

 

They weren't looking too clever when he first came in.

 

Aye, why was that again? Im sure something canny big had just happened.

 

Not the point. These good players were looking totally lost and lacked confidence, he's whipped them into shape and we look like a premiership football team again. Credit him for that.

 

Too right, I agree. Just like Roeder did. 

 

Some caretakers have done well, most don't, but its no reason to make a judgement either way. Every case is different.

 

 

 

My original point was that were doing well primarily because we have some very good players and Kinnears given them their confidence back imo, which he should be applauded for. Same as Roeder did in the short term and was applauded for. Long term I think tactics are going to have to come into it when our confidence is down and I dont think Kinnear has what it takes, again like Roeder. But like you say every case is different and time will tell.

 

Roeder + Shearer got results.

 

Roeder on his jack, didn't. It was obvious he lost the dressing room.

 

Has Kinnear lost the dressing room? The players seem to be responding well from what we've seen. Even the shit players.

 

The two aren't even remotely comparable other than the fact they were both appointed on temporary contracts initially.

 

Completely shoehorned argument trying to make out that they're one and same.

[Kaizero]

He's Glen Roeder part 2. Good in the short term, probably a disaster in the long term. Joe himself said today we'd be nowhere without a good team. Watching us play the first thing you notice isnt tactics, its that the majority of the players we have are pretty damn good.

 

They weren't looking too clever when he first came in.

 

Aye, why was that again? Im sure something canny big had just happened.

 

Not the point. These good players were looking totally lost and lacked confidence, he's whipped them into shape and we look like a premiership football team again. Credit him for that.

 

Too right, I agree. Just like Roeder did. 

 

Some caretakers have done well, most don't, but its no reason to make a judgement either way. Every case is different.

 

 

 

My original point was that were doing well primarily because we have some very good players and Kinnears given them their confidence back imo, which he should be applauded for. Same as Roeder did in the short term and was applauded for. Long term I think tactics are going to have to come into it when our confidence is down and I dont think Kinnear has what it takes, again like Roeder. But like you say every case is different and time will tell.

 

Though it has to be said Kinnear had some "success" with Wimbledon in his day. He had great results with limited resources, and after he stepped down because of his heart attack, Wimbledon went straight down. People seem to keep forgetting this. How'd he keep a club like Wimbledon up against the odds for so many season without any tactical knowledge? I don't think so.

[Neil]

He's Glen Roeder part 2. Good in the short term, probably a disaster in the long term. Joe himself said today we'd be nowhere without a good team. Watching us play the first thing you notice isnt tactics, its that the majority of the players we have are pretty damn good.

 

They weren't looking too clever when he first came in.

 

Aye, why was that again? Im sure something canny big had just happened.

 

Not the point. These good players were looking totally lost and lacked confidence, he's whipped them into shape and we look like a premiership football team again. Credit him for that.

 

Too right, I agree. Just like Roeder did. 

 

Some caretakers have done well, most don't, but its no reason to make a judgement either way. Every case is different.

 

 

 

Agree with the last bit in particular. Kinnear could lead Newcastle to a top 10 position and pushing towards Europe. It's entirely unpredictable.

 

But he's garunteed to fail long term.  Its a fact.

 

What a fantastic mentality.

 

Yep, its great isnt it?, anyone who thinks giving Kinnear the job full time will result in anything other than spending another 5 years in the football wilderness is having a laugh.

 

Im all for giving people a chance, just not desperate chancers who by some strange alignment of the planets couldnt believe his luck when he ended up in the job.

 

Its been said, hes Glenn Roeder mark 2 and no Everton fan will persuade me otherwise.

 

And this Everton fan isn't trying to persuade you into thinking he should be given the job long-term. Nor would I be stupid enough to speculate this. I don't agree with the logic of him being like Roeder though, as every example has different circumstances.

[Yorkie]

Whilst i agree with the essence of Pedro's posts - ie, appoint Kinnear long-term and we'll go nowhere - is anyone actually advocating giving him the job on a permanenet basis? I don't think many on here would be up for it, like.

[Guest firetotheworks]

He's Glen Roeder part 2. Good in the short term, probably a disaster in the long term. Joe himself said today we'd be nowhere without a good team. Watching us play the first thing you notice isnt tactics, its that the majority of the players we have are pretty damn good.

 

They weren't looking too clever when he first came in.

 

Aye, why was that again? Im sure something canny big had just happened.

 

Not the point. These good players were looking totally lost and lacked confidence, he's whipped them into shape and we look like a premiership football team again. Credit him for that.

 

Too right, I agree. Just like Roeder did. 

 

Some caretakers have done well, most don't, but its no reason to make a judgement either way. Every case is different.

 

 

 

My original point was that were doing well primarily because we have some very good players and Kinnears given them their confidence back imo, which he should be applauded for. Same as Roeder did in the short term and was applauded for. Long term I think tactics are going to have to come into it when our confidence is down and I dont think Kinnear has what it takes, again like Roeder. But like you say every case is different and time will tell.

 

Roeder + Shearer got results.

 

Roeder on his jack, didn't. It was obvious he lost the dressing room.

 

Has Kinnear lost the dressing room? The players seem to be responding well from what we've seen. Even the s*** players.

 

The two aren't even remotely comparable other than the fact they were both appointed on temporary contracts initially.

 

Completely shoehorned argument trying to make out that they're one and same.

 

Nah, Im not saying that theyre the same but that they are similar in that they both took over from negative situations and in doing so brought back a positive feel to the club in the short term. We dont know what Kinnear will do in the long term, but we know what Roeder did, or rather didnt do. Personally I can see it going the same way. Its just a feeling, Im not saying they are the same, Id have to be able to predict the future to say that.

[steve_69]

The difference is that Roeder had only had one management job before us (if i remember correctly), and that was West Ham, who he got relegated with. Joe Kinnear has a lot more experience and a relatively succesful track record.  I'd be much more confident of JK getting us out of a sticky patch that i ever was with Roeder.

Suggesting we shouldn't take Kinnear on permanently because Roeder failed from a similar situation is ridiculous. It's like saying we shouldn't hire another foreign manager because the last one failed miserably. We'd all love an experienced, succesful foreign manager at some point despite what Gullit did.

 

Everyone seems to be predicting that Kinnear will fail but so far that doesn't look to be the case, and until it does Kinnear should remain in charge. We've found a winning formula so why bother changing the manager because there's a possibly he'll screw up further down the line - there's also the possibility that he won't.

[Yorkie]

Roeder had stints at Gillingham and Watford aswell as West Ham iirc.

[Guest firetotheworks]

The difference is that Roeder had only had one management job before us (if i remember correctly), and that was West Ham, who he got relegated with. Joe Kinnear has a lot more experience and a relatively succesful track record.  I'd be much more confident of JK getting us out of a sticky patch that i ever was with Roeder.

Suggesting we shouldn't take Kinnear on permanently because Roeder failed from a similar situation is ridiculous. It's like saying we shouldn't hire another foreign manager because the last one failed miserably. We'd all love an experienced, succesful foreign manager at some point despite what Gullit did.

 

Everyone seems to be predicting that Kinnear will fail but so far that doesn't look to be the case, and until it does Kinnear should remain in charge. We've found a winning formula so why bother changing the manager because there's a possibly he'll screw up further down the line - there's also the possibility that he won't.

 

Fucking hell. Im not suggesting that, I was saying I have the same feeling about taking him on full time as I did when we did the same because Roeder did will for three quarters of a season. The reason I wouldnt take Kinnear on full time is more because we can do a lot better, the only reason we got him in the first place is because he was the only person willing to take the job on with an initial rolling contract. Admittedly he's done alright and Ive been most impressed with his perceived ability to learn from his mistakes, but that doesnt mean we cant do better.

[pedro111]

Kinnear is the same as Roeder because both men have found themselves in a job they are in no way whatsoever qualified for.

 

When you are not qualified to do a job, you fail. Its only a matter of time.

[The Prophet]

I think a lot of problems with caretakers is simply that they're not managers. Roeder like many caretakers is a coach, he lacks the charisma and character to be able to inspire players as well as being able to bring them back down to earth. You get similar problems with directors of football who play the role, they're unable to lead.

 

Kinnear is different to Roeder because he is a manager and Roeder is a coach. The problem lies in the fact that Kinnear is an average manager.

[TRon]

I'll say it again, Kinnear f***ing out.

 

You lot are idiots if you think he is the answer full time.

 

He shouldnt be within a million miles of the job.  OK he's done alright but the loss to the Mackems and his subsequent "couldnt give a f*** about it" attitide and the numerous points dropped at home tell me all I need to know.

 

That's because once Kinnear's contract is up and we get a proper manager he's GUARANTEED to be successful obviously. Good spot 

 

OK, I conceed, give JFK the job full time.  See where that'll get us.

 

Or how about just let him get on with it till the season's up? FWIW I don't think he's the long term answer but he's done a good job in the circumstances. We are pretty well organised, the spirit is good, I just don't think it's fair to be sniping at this point.

 

This.

 

He came in when no one else would touch the job, steadied the ship, made us hard to beat, and is now starting to get results. We couldn't have asked for much more so far, really, even though he's obviously benefitting from low expectations. But there's plenty of the season left before making decisions about whether he should have the job in the longer term. His position, as ever, will probably depend on whether or to whom the club gets sold, but it's hardly surprising if Ashley feels grateful enough right now to stand by his man. And today of all days we should not be slagging him off.

 

Some people have short memories, at the time we couldn't buy a result and we were being described as a "broken club". Not having a go at HTT btw, at least he's big enough to give credit where it's been earned.

 

Incidentally, it was the battle of the Brit manager dinosaurs today, and Joe punched not-so-'appy 'arry's lights out 

[OzzieMandias]

Kinnear is the same as Roeder because both men have found themselves in a job they are in no way whatsoever qualified for.

 

When you are not qualified to do a job, you fail. Its only a matter of time.

 

Classic circular reasoning, that.

[Guest BooBoo]

He's done better than most people expected. Unfortunately the tediously brain numbing Keegan bottom bumming brigade will continue to pain the man as the anti christ.

 

I would like to say though, Cheers Joe, have a great Christmas. Cheers pal!

[Baggio]

He's done better than most people expected. Unfortunately the tediously brain numbing Keegan bottom bumming brigade will continue to pain the man as the anti christ.

 

I would like to say though, Cheers Joe, have a great Christmas. Cheers pal!

 

[STM]

Joe is doing the simple things brilliantly, in the same way Roeder did in that spell. Long term, i'm not sure.

 

At least he's not a fairy like Roeder.

[pedro111]

Kinnear is the same as Roeder because both men have found themselves in a job they are in no way whatsoever qualified for.

 

When you are not qualified to do a job, you fail. Its only a matter of time.

 

Classic circular reasoning, that.

 

If JFK wins us the FA cup this year I'll be the first to offer my mouth for the congratulatory blow job.

 

[OzzieMandias]

Kinnear is the same as Roeder because both men have found themselves in a job they are in no way whatsoever qualified for.

 

When you are not qualified to do a job, you fail. Its only a matter of time.

 

Classic circular reasoning, that.

 

If JFK wins us the FA cup this year I'll be the first to offer my mouth for the congratulatory blow job.

 

 

So every manager we've had since 1955 wasn't qualified for the job?

[Neil]

Kinnear is the same as Roeder because both men have found themselves in a job they are in no way whatsoever qualified for.

 

When you are not qualified to do a job, you fail. Its only a matter of time.

 

Classic circular reasoning, that.

 

If JFK wins us the FA cup this year I'll be the first to offer my mouth for the congratulatory blow job.

 

 

So every manager we've had since 1955 wasn't qualified for the job?

 

I can see what's going to happen next.