Baggio Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 (I remeber Mort coming out a stating how much we'd added to our wage bill which was a strange move - this to me highlighted their warieness on the wage bill). I don't remember this tbh, I'd be interested to see it if you can find it somehow. (not sarcastic) http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/north-east-news/todays-evening-chronicle/2008/03/01/opening-up-toon-s-books-72703-20545643/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fading star Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I liked this bit Chairman Chris Mort said in his statement: “Team performance in the 2006/07 FA Premier League fell below the level that the board of directors and the supporters regard as acceptable, culminating in a disappointing 13th-place finish and no European football in 2007/08.” And this Mr Mort outlines the club ambition as “securing its position among the top teams in England and competing in Europe on a regular basis”. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 the catering and stewarding staff the club have outsourced I don't know a lot about this point I'll admit, but wasn't it the Shepherd regime that spent large amounts of the clubs money renting warehouses and storage facilities owned by members of the board and their families? Aye, and he rightly got stick for that, not that this is anything to do with anything. There is nothing actually wrong in what Ashley is doing with the catering and stewarding etc., its good business in terms of cost efficiency but those savings wont go on new players, they will go towards the get my money back fund Ashley opened when he "returned". How do you think Ashley will achieve a profit at this club? Not by returning, spending big money on new players, retaining the good players already here, firing Kinnear, appointing a good manager and backing that manager on a consistent basis, put it that way. Nor by putting a ridiculous price on the value of the club, as he's learned. So it isn't about profit now it is all about getting his money back or as much as possible, which will require him coming back (hence his 'sudden' return) and running the club tightly, extremely tightly, for a little while cutting those costs, keeping spending to a minimum and banking any profit. It wouldn't really surprise me if the whole squad were up for sale as countless papers allude to in a round about way, or rather that if any sizable bids were to come in for any of our players, ANY, they'd be accepted. What do you think? How will Ashley turn things around without adding to the colossal amount he's already spent on buying the club, an amount which no-one will give him back, never mind even more on top? How can he possibly turn it around? He even said himself he wont be putting any more in, and when he said any, that includes the money from the club itself which is as much his as is the money in his bank account. Unless of course, he really really does want to make a go of it and runs the club the way it needs to be run. And if you believe that.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'm starting to feel sorry for the banner in all honesty. I bet it never thought that it would cause such controvasy when it came out with those three words at the Hull game. Poor banner, must feel like a complete outcast now! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Does anyone know if Barrett got the ban he deserved? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toonlass Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Does anyone know if Barrett got the ban he deserved? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 the catering and stewarding staff the club have outsourced I don't know a lot about this point I'll admit, but wasn't it the Shepherd regime that spent large amounts of the clubs money renting warehouses and storage facilities owned by members of the board and their families? Aye, and he rightly got stick for that, not that this is anything to do with anything. There is nothing actually wrong in what Ashley is doing with the catering and stewarding etc., its good business in terms of cost efficiency but those savings wont go on new players, they will go towards the get my money back fund Ashley opened when he "returned". How do you think Ashley will achieve a profit at this club? Not by returning, spending big money on new players, retaining the good players already here, firing Kinnear, appointing a good manager and backing that manager on a consistent basis, put it that way. Nor by putting a ridiculous price on the value of the club, as he's learned. So it isn't about profit now it is all about getting his money back or as much as possible, which will require him coming back (hence his 'sudden' return) and running the club tightly, extremely tightly, for a little while cutting those costs, keeping spending to a minimum and banking any profit. It wouldn't really surprise me if the whole squad were up for sale as countless papers allude to in a round about way, or rather that if any sizable bids were to come in for any of our players, ANY, they'd be accepted. What do you think? How will Ashley turn things around without adding to the colossal amount he's already spent on buying the club, an amount which no-one will give him back, never mind even more on top? How can he possibly turn it around? He even said himself he wont be putting any more in, and when he said any, that includes the money from the club itself which is as much his as is the money in his bank account. Unless of course, he really really does want to make a go of it and runs the club the way it needs to be run. And if you believe that.... So how about he lowers the price to waht he paid for it (£134m) then make the debt he paid off a directors loan and get the next regime to pay if off directly to him, if all he wants is his money back? To have this bloke down as a complete charlatan who has no interest in taking the club forward is a bit of a joke really, theres no logical reasoning for this view. My view is that Ashley will try and lower the wage bill by getting rid of the wasters at this club who have cost the club huge amount of money but havent given us the performances to match this and replace them with hungrier younger talent, as well as forgien talent. "we dont want to buy the world class stars, we want to find the player who could go on to be the world class stars", this does 2 things, it gives us a stable wage bill as the foriegner havent forged the rep to demand huge wages and it also provides a safety net with a resale value. Just in case. My belief is that Wise's role is to asses the value that players will have coming into the club, it doesnt take a lot of hindsight now to relaise that Bassong or Colo will prove to be much more valuable and sensible signings than Woodgate and Dunne. The mere fact that agreeing with this statement would contradict all your "the manager should have the final say" says alot about the fragility of your beliefs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJS Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 All very well until people start bidding for the unearthed "stars" like Bassong. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 it doesnt take a lot of hindsight now to relaise that Bassong or Colo will prove to be much more valuable and sensible signings than Woodgate and Dunne. You're talking about resale value here are you? Even that's debatable. Frankly neither Bassong nor Coloccini hold a light to Woodgate at this time; Bassong may at some point. In terms of where we are now; we'd probably have conceded less with Dunne and Woodgate, we've scored a lot of goals, we'd be higher up the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 You're talking about resale value here are you? Even that's debatable. Frankly neither Bassong nor Coloccini hold a light to Woodgate at this time; Bassong may at some point. In terms of where we are now; we'd probably have conceded less with Dunne and Woodgate, we've scored a lot of goals, we'd be higher up the league. Yeah Dunne's been fucking outstanding this year Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 You're talking about resale value here are you? Even that's debatable. Frankly neither Bassong nor Coloccini hold a light to Woodgate at this time; Bassong may at some point. In terms of where we are now; we'd probably have conceded less with Dunne and Woodgate, we've scored a lot of goals, we'd be higher up the league. Yeah Dunne's been f***ing outstanding this year Man City have conceded less goals than us. So, I guess by comparison he may have been better than Coloccini. Would he have cost as much? And what about Woodgate? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 You're talking about resale value here are you? Even that's debatable. Frankly neither Bassong nor Coloccini hold a light to Woodgate at this time; Bassong may at some point. In terms of where we are now; we'd probably have conceded less with Dunne and Woodgate, we've scored a lot of goals, we'd be higher up the league. Yeah Dunne's been f***ing outstanding this year Man City have conceded less goals than us. So, I guess by comparison he may have been better than Coloccini. Would he have cost as much? And what about Woodgate? Dunne has been absolute shite this season was my point. I didn't comment on Woodgate, but to be honest he turned us down to go to Spurs so he's pretty irrelevant. Dunne has been comfortably the worst of the 4 centre halves you mentioned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edd Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 You're talking about resale value here are you? Even that's debatable. Frankly neither Bassong nor Coloccini hold a light to Woodgate at this time; Bassong may at some point. In terms of where we are now; we'd probably have conceded less with Dunne and Woodgate, we've scored a lot of goals, we'd be higher up the league. Yeah Dunne's been f***ing outstanding this year Man City have conceded less goals than us. So, I guess by comparison he may have been better than Coloccini. Would he have cost as much? And what about Woodgate? Dunne has been absolute shite this season was my point. I didn't comment on Woodgate, but to be honest he turned us down to go to Spurs so he's pretty irrelevant. Dunne has been comfortably the worst of the 4 centre halves you mentioned. Well I blame Ashley for cashing in on Woodgate in the first place Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 You're talking about resale value here are you? Even that's debatable. Frankly neither Bassong nor Coloccini hold a light to Woodgate at this time; Bassong may at some point. In terms of where we are now; we'd probably have conceded less with Dunne and Woodgate, we've scored a lot of goals, we'd be higher up the league. Yeah Dunne's been f***ing outstanding this year Man City have conceded less goals than us. So, I guess by comparison he may have been better than Coloccini. Would he have cost as much? And what about Woodgate? Dunne has been absolute s**** this season was my point. I didn't comment on Woodgate, but to be honest he turned us down to go to Spurs so he's pretty irrelevant. Dunne has been comfortably the worst of the 4 centre halves you mentioned. You're talking about resale value here are you? Even that's debatable. Frankly neither Bassong nor Coloccini hold a light to Woodgate at this time; Bassong may at some point. In terms of where we are now; we'd probably have conceded less with Dunne and Woodgate, we've scored a lot of goals, we'd be higher up the league. Yeah Dunne's been f***ing outstanding this year Man City have conceded less goals than us. So, I guess by comparison he may have been better than Coloccini. Would he have cost as much? And what about Woodgate? Dunne has been absolute s**** this season was my point. I didn't comment on Woodgate, but to be honest he turned us down to go to Spurs so he's pretty irrelevant. Dunne has been comfortably the worst of the 4 centre halves you mentioned. Somebody else mentioned them first. I find it risible that it's purported that the partnership of Bassong and Coloccini is so much better than a partnership of Woodgate and Dunne would be; hence my question concerning resale value. Bad as Dunne has been (in your assessment) he is, nonetheless, playing in a more miserly back four. I know goals conceded are a mere statistic but, for defenders, an important one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredbob Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 it doesnt take a lot of hindsight now to relaise that Bassong or Colo will prove to be much more valuable and sensible signings than Woodgate and Dunne. You're talking about resale value here are you? Even that's debatable. Frankly neither Bassong nor Coloccini hold a light to Woodgate at this time; Bassong may at some point. In terms of where we are now; we'd probably have conceded less with Dunne and Woodgate, we've scored a lot of goals, we'd be higher up the league. Well Colo certainly hasnt done anything to make him les valuable in my opinion, and Bassong has doubled his at least by now. Woodgate went to Spurs for £7m, his value isnt going to increase too much. As for the conceding less? As for conceeding less, thats very debatable. Man C have had a steady centre half partnership througoht the seaosn, we've onyl really seen Bassong and Colo reacently. Colo and bassong has been the best partnership that the club has had in many many years. EDIT: I dont make any claims that a Dunne Woody partnership would be worse or best, more that the merits of the colo bassong trasnfers. younger, cheaper, better injury records and id say very close in abilty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 it doesnt take a lot of hindsight now to relaise that Bassong or Colo will prove to be much more valuable and sensible signings than Woodgate and Dunne. You're talking about resale value here are you? Even that's debatable. Frankly neither Bassong nor Coloccini hold a light to Woodgate at this time; Bassong may at some point. In terms of where we are now; we'd probably have conceded less with Dunne and Woodgate, we've scored a lot of goals, we'd be higher up the league. Well Colo certainly hasnt done anything to make him les valuable in my opinion, and Bassong has doubled his at least by now. Woodgate went to Spurs for £7m, his value isnt going to increase too much. As for the conceding less? As for conceeding less, thats very debatable. Man C have had a steady centre half partnership througoht the seaosn, we've onyl really seen Bassong and Colo reacently. Colo and bassong has been the best partnership that the club has had in many many years. Coloccini was somewhat unconvincing against Liverpool. Bassong is a defender of great promise. The true class we have at the back is Beye. Woodgate is a formidable defender ( and excellent at attacking set-pieces ) which is not to say that I don't appreciate either Coloccini or Bassong but to say it's a bit rich to consider they're better now than Woodgate or Dunne (whose bad season is better than ours defensively). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 So how about he lowers the price to waht he paid for it (£134m) then make the debt he paid off a directors loan and get the next regime to pay if off directly to him, if all he wants is his money back? Which idiot is going to buy a club in debt all the same? Oh wait... No sane person or "regime" would buy the club under such conditions man, hence why that option isn't open to him. To have this bloke down as a complete charlatan who has no interest in taking the club forward is a bit of a joke really, theres no logical reasoning for this view. No logical reason for this view? A charlatan (also called swindler) is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretence or deception. He's "swindled" 3 years worth of season ticket money out of some 12-18,000 fans. Confidence trick - err sitting with fans to say look at me, "I'm one of you"?. And to obtain money or advantage via some form of pretence or deception... that's Ashley all over. (Source wikipedia FWIW) My view is that Ashley will try and lower the wage bill by getting rid of the wasters at this club who have cost the club huge amount of money but havent given us the performances to match this and replace them with hungrier younger talent, as well as forgien talent. "we dont want to buy the world class stars, we want to find the player who could go on to be the world class stars", this does 2 things, it gives us a stable wage bill as the foriegner havent forged the rep to demand huge wages and it also provides a safety net with a resale value. Just in case. On what kind of budget? And what about the quality, experienced players all teams need? And who is the manager, Kinnear? My belief is that Wise's role is to asses the value that players will have coming into the club, it doesnt take a lot of hindsight now to relaise that Bassong or Colo will prove to be much more valuable and sensible signings than Woodgate and Dunne. The mere fact that agreeing with this statement would contradict all your "the manager should have the final say" says alot about the fragility of your beliefs. Both Woodgate and Dunne are better defenders than Bassong and Colo or rather better proven Premiership class defenders. Ignore current form, these players have been performing to high standards when fit for years now while Bassong has a long way to go yet and Colo despite his price and pedigree hasn't set the world alight. Of course wor two could and will with any luck get better and go on to become better players than those two were or are. I'm not disputing your point by the way, I do however think your point is irrelevant really or flawed and I'll explain why. Because its in real value and not speculative value that matters, i.e. what these players bring to the team and how the club uses these players and let me remind you despite these more "valuable and sensible signings", we're still having a s*** season and are only 3 points off a relegation spot as we sit in mid-table, while every area of the first-team never mind the squad, still needs injected with proven quality. And what does proven quality cost? Good money. Ashley's plan falls down because you need a good manager to get the best out of these players, especially the younger ones (development) and foreign additions (look at Xisco) and for whatever reason, he failed to hang onto his. Not that I give any real credence to these plans because one week we're following the Arsenal model, the next the Spurs one. Ironically Wenger the man who created the Arsenal model and who runs it with an iron fist, said he too would have walked if he was being undermined by those around him. And talking of this plan, even Ashley himself has conceded his own ideas are not the way in which the club needs to really be ran to be successful. The architecht doesn't even like his own building Its a great system though, look what we've achieved since it was incorporated. 3 failed windows, 3 managers, a fall in gates, top stars wanting out, failure to secure the futures of players already here, failure to resell the club, failure to communicate with fans and so on and so on... We've been through all that though and this isn't what this is about. Its about Ashley staying and what it all means for our club and the position he is now in. I cannot see Ashley turning Newcastle United around the way we currently operate under his level of commitment, not unless he ditches his old system, spends big and appoints a top manager. To do that would make it impossible for him to recoup his money either way because if no-one is willing to give him back what he's forked out up to now, they sure as hell wont give him all that and then 10s of millions more on top, even if we finished top 6 one season qualifying for the UEFA Cup. He has 2 options. Cut his losses and sell at a big loss, maybe around £100-£150m or stay, recoup as much as possible from player sales, cutting operating costs like catering, stewarding, publishing (another thing he's outsourced), football in the community (soon to be outsourced I believe), spend a minimum net as possible on transfers and cut wages etc. In short cut costs, maximise profit and bank it all. If he could get £25m for Shay, Owen and Martins and also save on their what, combined 12m a year wages, that's a possible 32m recouped there, minus any that goes back in to cover operating costs of course. If he can recoup enough back that way, he can then lower the price to a more realistic level and then sell, coming away without making a loss and more the wiser as a business man. That is what he'll do and is arguably his only real option if he can't sell it and get his money back that way. Announcing he's taking the club off the market doesn't mean it still isn't up for sale or that he's here to stay and to make a go of it, it just took him all that time to realise what a negative effect it was having on everyone. I think Kinnear talking about spending a few million here or a few million there on this and that player was a trick used by Ashley to keep him sweet, to keep him going. The internal workings of the club will be seen to be trying to get such players for Kinnear, but as KK found out, they'll trot out excuses saying how they wanted too much, negotiations broke down, other clubs were bidding, agents pissing them about and Kinnear like KK will get what he's given, only he'll put up with it because he's grateful for the job and they'll say next summer will be different, so if he keeps us up, he'll sign a new deal because in his mind he'll eventually get some money and all will be well. I guarantee he'll walk at some point though when he realises what's going on, just like KK. Everything about the set-up, the level of communication, the pissed off players, the contradictions in Kinnear's statement (the patsy in this), the low net spend, the outsourcing of everything, the emphasis on young players and unearthed foreign stars, 3 year season ticket deals etc, all point to me to Ashley getting his money back by hook or crook and that's the plan stan. There will be no turning NUFC around by Ashley, just a turn around on what he's owed and the sooner the better for him. And us. We'll be left with a skeleton team minus most of our better players and a clueless manager who will feel dizzy by it all when the shit hits the fan, that's if he hasn't walked by then. I only hope we are still a PL club at the end of it and the thousands who will leave, return someday. Just hurry up Mike, do what you have to do and f*** off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'm starting to feel sorry for the banner in all honesty. I bet it never thought that it would cause such controvasy when it came out with those three words at the Hull game. Poor banner, must feel like a complete outcast now! Don't be daft. There are plenty of people who love it, even though it's retarded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I'm starting to feel sorry for the banner in all honesty. I bet it never thought that it would cause such controvasy when it came out with those three words at the Hull game. Poor banner, must feel like a complete outcast now! Don't be daft. There are plenty of people who love it, even though it's retarded. A familiar feeling? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Really the banner would more accurately convey its core message if it read like this: "We're a bit stupid and we hate you, at least partly for xenophobic reasons, so don't bother trying to do anything to please us because that won't ever change!" Or "The club that I love is being destroyed by a Southern dominated cabal for reasons of self-aggrandisement and I would prefer it if you left, selling the club at a reasonable profit for your trouble. Close the door on your way out. This is a heart-felt emotional response." Even more expensive and not quite so pithy. But just as fuckwitted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Agree with all of that HTT Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest fraser Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Really the banner would more accurately convey its core message if it read like this: "We're a bit stupid and we hate you, at least partly for xenophobic reasons, so don't bother trying to do anything to please us because that won't ever change!" Or "The club that I love is being destroyed by a Southern dominated cabal for reasons of self-aggrandisement and I would prefer it if you left, selling the club at a reasonable profit for your trouble. Close the door on your way out. This is a heart-felt emotional response." Even more expensive and not quite so pithy. But just as fuckwitted. And just as slow-witted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Edd Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 http://thebiglead.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/protest_banners.jpg Lets not go here aye? I wonder if they'll still protest if they win the league? And I wonder how many of those that abandoned ManU in protest at the Glaziers plans to kill their club have crept back into OT? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 http://thebiglead.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/protest_banners.jpg Lets not go here aye? I wonder if they'll still protest if they win the league? And I wonder how many of those that abandoned ManU in protest at the Glaziers plans to kill their club have crept back into OT? And they're supporting a manager who is still there & has stuck it out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howaythetoon Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 http://thebiglead.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/protest_banners.jpg Lets not go here aye? I wonder if they'll still protest if they win the league? And I wonder how many of those that abandoned ManU in protest at the Glaziers plans to kill their club have crept back into OT? And they're supporting a manager who is still there & has stuck it out. A manager who gets to spend over £40m on his preferred choice of strike force, after his previous first choice which cost over £25m (Kuyt, Bellamy, Babbel) didn't do the bizz. Aye the parallels are amazingly similar. I suggest you learn why LFC fans want the Americans out, has fuck all to do with undermining Rafa, lack of spending or signs of ambition or all that jazz. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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