Guest PJ87 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I think a lot of people on here forget NUFC could well not exist without what Keegan did for us. He'll always be my hero. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I think a lot of people on here forget NUFC could well not exist without what Keegan did for us. He'll always be my hero. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I think some people on here forget NUFC could well not exist without what Keegan did for us. He'll always be my hero. Fixed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 As I said I find his principles very strange, misplaced maybe even selective. Just totally oblivious to the bigger picture. What was the bigger picture ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyn davies Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 amazing ain't it, 84 pages into this thread Keegans been gone over a year, remind me how many managers in one form or another during that period we've had, and yet we still talk about him,just shows how ineffective the stand ins have been excepting Shearer as he was lumbered wot the others supplied, and how important Keegan has been to the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I think a lot of people on here forget NUFC could well not exist without what Keegan did for us. He'll always be my hero. There's a difference between respecting what he did for the club, and being one step away from growing a perm and changing your name to Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wally_McFool Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 [ There's a difference between respecting what he did for the club, and being one step away from growing a perm and changing your name to Kevin You've missed out using Brut. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Ah, it's moral now. It was about principles and I can't see anything wrong in a manager having the principles to be allowed to the job in a way it is suited to him which was fundamental to him accepting the job. He's also holding the moral high ground in regards to refusing to sign players to do favours to dodgy agents though. I think words morals/values/principles are easily interchangeable in this circumstance. And in essence I agree with what you are saying (they are now even proven facts), problem is how did taking what he saw as the high road help us the fans? Who he was supposedly looking out for, he claims? As I said I find his principles very strange, misplaced maybe even selective. Just totally oblivious to the bigger picture. The words aren't interchangeable in this context. Keegan's stance was about the principles of managment. Something he needed to work successful. In this context he was totally underminded by his employer - as you agree. So it was more about working ethics than general ethics. I can't see too much misplaced in this. It is easy to say, he should have backed down for the "greater good" or the fans on "moral" reasons like the love for the club. It's pretty obvious from the verdict that this wasn't a possibility any more. The situation in getting bossed around by numpties was unbearable by then. As romantic as it sounds of Keegan backing down for the love of the club for all to live on happy afterwards, I don't think this was on anymore and I find it pretty moronic to hold it against Keegan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 What was the bigger picture ? The very immediate future of the club from a sporting perspective. So many people keep saying that the months that followed and our relegation proved how right Keegan was. Well I suggest that also means he quit and knowingly left the club in the hands of these incapable people. It is easy to say, he should have backed down for the "greater good" or the fans on "moral" reasons like the love for the club. It's pretty obvious from the verdict that this wasn't a possibility any more. The situation in getting bossed around by numpties was unbearable by then. As romantic as it sounds of Keegan backing down for the love of the club for all to live on happy afterwards, I don't think this was on anymore and I find it pretty moronic to hold it against Keegan. Well that sums up nicely the points we are disagreeing over. There's not much more to say I'm afraid. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 So M4TT, how do you think a working relationship between Keegan and Ashley (and his Cronies) would have looked like considering the totally different and clashing understanding of the duties of a manager? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
M4 Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 Well, obviously it wasn't about making a successfully working environment anymore, but I'm suggesting not guaranteeing that it would be an unsuccessful one. I simply don't see it as too much to ask for him to put up more of a fight (or putting up with a little more shit) and ensuring the season wouldn't end in disaster especially given the circumstances of his return. Of course he was "technically", "legally" right but that doesn't make the way he just packed it in again (and knowing how much damage it would cause the club and team) any less annoying. Knowing his temperament he probably also played a part in manoeuvring himself into a position where he felt he had no alternative. As much as you find it moronic to hold any of this against him, I find it weird to not consider his actions at least a little disappointing. That's just the basis of the opinion divide. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 http://www.newsoftheworld.co.uk/sport/554367/FORMER-Newcastle-boss-Kevin-Keegan-fears-his-relationship-with-the-clubrsquos-supporters-will-never-recover-after-his-bitter-battle-with-Mike-Ashley.html A source close to the 58-year-old one-time Geordie messiah said: "He has taken it all very hard. He looked at message boards and has been very hurt. He has taken all the criticism personally." I hope you are all very pleased with yourselves. /unless of course you are the source close to the 58-year-old one-time Geordie messiah The interesting thing is that he does have some previous here. I can remember reading that at Man City, he got very upset about what some fans were saying about him on the internet, and he had to be persuaded by the club against taking any action. As a whole, the bloke seems curiously dependent on other people’s approval, or at least sensitive to disapproval. The prime example was when he walked out of the England job when he was booed after a defeat. I can also remember him saying, first time round with us, that he would know when it would be time to go, because the fans would tell him. That struck me at the time as odd – a manager has to weather the periods when he’s getting criticised. He can’t expect it to be ever upward all the time. And if this story is true, it’s equally odd. From what I can tell, he’s been getting a lot of support on the messageboards, alongside the criticism. Given what’s happened, he can’t have expected unanimous approval, but somehow he’s disappointed. For a bloke who’s reached the top echelons of his profession, he seems ridiculously dependent on public love. The flip side of this kind of mind-set is that if you get public approval, you think you must be in the right. He gained a lot of sympathy after the bust-up with Ashley, and I wonder whether that provided the impetus for him launching that legal action. I know some will disagree (ho ho), but a man whose actions are dictated by his conscience would have been very hesitant to claim £25 million after 8 months’ work, especially from the club he claims to love. It’s like he was saying people love me, therefore I’m in the right, rather than being guided by his own internal values. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 i wonder how mike ashley feels about other people's opinions, he fucks off like a spoilt child crying at their birthday party when they didnt get the first slice of the cake. of course, no point worrying about ashley, he only owns the club. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 As Johnny says Bob, whats your opinion of Mike Ashleys response to lack of love/approval from the fans ? Priceless as ever btw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 As Johnny says Bob, whats your opinion of Mike Ashleys response to lack of love/approval from the fans ? Priceless as ever btw I was actually writing about Kevin Keegan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 As Johnny says Bob, whats your opinion of Mike Ashleys response to lack of love/approval from the fans ? Priceless as ever btw I was actually writing about Kevin Keegan. Aye I think that's the point we were making Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 As Johnny says Bob, whats your opinion of Mike Ashleys response to lack of love/approval from the fans ? Priceless as ever btw I was actually writing about Kevin Keegan. Aye. You are criticising Kevin for seemingly being desperate for the love of the public but then on the other hand you have Mike Ashley. Mike, who laps up the love and adoration of the fans, sits with them, drinks with them, but after one, albeit major incident/demonstration, tell us all he had had enough and is selling the club. I just wondered what your opinion of Mike is with regards to that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robster Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I can also remember him saying, first time round with us, that he would know when it would be time to go, because the fans would tell him. That struck me at the time as odd – a manager has to weather the periods when he’s getting criticised. He can’t expect it to be ever upward all the time. I shall start to think about giving Mike Ashley some respect when he personally talks to fans on the steps of SJP like Kevin did when he was very heavily criticised for selling Andy Cole. Even you cant disagree that that was a tough time for him, yet he faced up to it head on. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 As Johnny says Bob, whats your opinion of Mike Ashleys response to lack of love/approval from the fans ? Priceless as ever btw I was actually writing about Kevin Keegan. Aye. You are criticising Kevin for seemingly being desperate for the love of the public but then on the other hand you have Mike Ashley. Mike, who laps up the love and adoration of the fans, sits with them, drinks with them, but after one, albeit major incident/demonstration, tell us all he had had enough and is selling the club. I just wondered what your opinion of Mike is with regards to that. I'm reluctant to respond, because it feels like a diversion. It often feels like any point about Keegan can be somehow nullified by a criticism of Ashley. It's perfectly possible to be critical of both. FWIW, I think your analogy between Ashley's decision to sell and Keegan getting upset over what he sees on internet sites is very superficial. The two situations are quite different in reality. I was making a point about what I see as a general flaw in Keegan's make-up that has been apparent over the years. If you don't want to deal with those issues, then fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmonkey Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 I fail to see how Keegan can be blamed in any way whatsoever for us getting relegated. We were relegated for the "mistakes" ('monumental cock-ups' would be a more accurate description) from the board after Keegan's departure. Mistakes such as: 1) Failing to appoint a manager immediately after Keegan's departure, then aAnnouncing the club was to be sold and operations no longer funded whilst there was no manager at the club. Meaning no manager in the world would want the job unless absolutely desperate for it - or in other words, so s*** that noone else would even think about employing them. 2) Appointing Kinnear, a dinosaur from yesteryear with no acceptable or relevant achievements under his belt, because of the above reasons, then making a significant net profit in the January transfer market by selling two of our best players despite knowing that the squad was thin and the team was s***. 3) Allowing the team to fester under a training coach not suited to management whilst the aforementioned dinosaur underwent, and then recovered slowly from, critical heart surgery. 4) Paying the price for putting together a squad full of highly paid "stars" who's best years were long, long behind them. So on and so forth. Keegan had nothing to do with our relegation. Several managers declared an interest in the job after the initial news of his departure, Zico and Houllier iirc being two of them, so it's not as though Keegan walking somehow turned us into someone's ugly sister. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnypd Posted October 18, 2009 Share Posted October 18, 2009 As Johnny says Bob, whats your opinion of Mike Ashleys response to lack of love/approval from the fans ? Priceless as ever btw I was actually writing about Kevin Keegan. Aye. You are criticising Kevin for seemingly being desperate for the love of the public but then on the other hand you have Mike Ashley. Mike, who laps up the love and adoration of the fans, sits with them, drinks with them, but after one, albeit major incident/demonstration, tell us all he had had enough and is selling the club. I just wondered what your opinion of Mike is with regards to that. I'm reluctant to respond, because it feels like a diversion. It often feels like any point about Keegan can be somehow nullified by a criticism of Ashley. It's perfectly possible to be critical of both. FWIW, I think your analogy between Ashley's decision to sell and Keegan getting upset over what he sees on internet sites is very superficial. The two situations are quite different in reality. I was making a point about what I see as a general flaw in Keegan's make-up that has been apparent over the years. If you don't want to deal with those issues, then fine. priceless. Yes, it certainly is possible to criticise both. However in your case, not so much. you probably go on about keegan more than anyone on here, yet there's no one on this forum who criticises ashley less. that's the diversion tactic going on here. it's like spending hours criticising Souness after he'd been sacked, while refusing to condemn the man who appointed him (ie NE5 levels). if you noticed that behaviour in someone else you'd think it was ridiculous too. Ashley, as if you need reminding, and maybe you do, is on the verge of repeating the mistakes that sent us down last season. you may discover that the man is a grade a buffoon if you want to take a moment to analyse his time here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Keegan cant admit to any mistakes or culpability in public because of the ruling of the tribunal. However, this statement is a nod of awareness to the feelings of some of the fans. I only read NO and TT but is appears he is responding to people on here. I'm not sure what the wider feeling is amongst fans but i always assumed that the majority supported him. The size of the £26m claim may have changed some opinions too. He has at least taken the time to address these feelings with a statement, acknowledging that they exist. You could be cynical about it or you can see it as someone who at least cares what the fans think. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Antec Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-1221164/Alan-Curbishley-inflict-new-West-Ham-blow-boss-eyes--2m-compensation.html Go on my son Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronky Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Keegan cant admit to any mistakes or culpability in public because of the ruling of the tribunal. However, this statement is a nod of awareness to the feelings of some of the fans. I only read NO and TT but is appears he is responding to people on here. I'm not sure what the wider feeling is amongst fans but i always assumed that the majority supported him. The size of the £26m claim may have changed some opinions too. He has at least taken the time to address these feelings with a statement, acknowledging that they exist. You could be cynical about it or you can see it as someone who at least cares what the fans think. I don't think that statement has come out with Keegan's approval. It could be completely made up, but more likely it's one of his mates being a bit indiscreet in the presence of a journo. If he has approved it, then he's a fool. Getting upset over internet opinions just makes him look like a wally. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted October 19, 2009 Share Posted October 19, 2009 Wonder why we all bother making them then if they mean nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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