Mick Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I know that but this was down to clearing up the mess of past managers. We always do it. We have seasons of big spend and then next to nothing. Our problem with FFS was not down to the money he gave managers it was down to sacking managers so quickly which could also relate to hiring the wrong managers. Dalglish had the same problem. He had to do all the tidying of the club left over from KK as the club needed to reduce wages and get rid of squad members before cash could be made available again. To be fair Kenny Dalglish was well backed as he had a net spend of almost £16 million in his short time here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I know that but this was down to clearing up the mess of past managers. We always do it. We have seasons of big spend and then next to nothing. Our problem with FFS was not down to the money he gave managers it was down to sacking managers so quickly which could also relate to hiring the wrong managers. Dalglish had the same problem. He had to do all the tidying of the club left over from KK as the club needed to reduce wages and get rid of squad members before cash could be made available again. To be fair Kenny Dalglish was well backed as he had a net spend of almost £16 million in his short time here. Yeah but on lots of players on low wages. Gary Speed I believe was out most expensive purchase he brought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 NE5's basic point is fair enough, that to succeed in the premiership you do have to spend money. It's a lot more complicated than that though, you can easily spend without achieving lasting success (see our recent history) and put the club in jeopardy in the process. If it's not feasible to spend big, then it's not feasible. The accounts (and what most people suspected anyway) show that we are in a position where we need to be realistic about our standing and build for long-term success. That will obviously come with a restricted budget for first team spending. nowt basic about it, its an absolute necessity. It IS a necessity, but so are other factors which you are refusing to admit FS did not display, or possess, which is why he made a complete f***ing mess of it. like appointing Bobby Robson and speculating, rather than take soopa mikes prudency route ? Bobby Robson was not Shepherd's genius idea well, if not, then Keegan was certainly the idea of Shepherd, Flether and Hall Jnr, not SJH. Its stuff like this, refusing to give any credit for anything that shows up your blind agenda, but you're not the only one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 like appointing Bobby Robson and speculating, rather than take soopa mikes prudency route ? I suggest you have a look at what Bobby spent and when. I suggest you look at the league tables I've posted in the other thread, and the standing of the club in 2007 compared to 1991, as you aren't aware of it no matter what you pretend. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah but on lots of players on low wages. Gary Speed I believe was out most expensive purchase he brought. The players who came in were his choice though, some were utter garbage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I think the point NE5 is trying to make was the club was on a sound foot. Yes we had a massive amount of debt but it was backed by the number of fans we got in the stadium, was a short term loan and was easily paid off each season including interest. We then used our finance brought into the club each season to buy new players. Often we went a season without spending big and got rid of dead wood, this helped lower the wage bill each season but overall meant we were able to compete each season really and try and get into a European spot whilst also getting in big players. The one point we were missing was a good manager to take over that role. If we got that manager in we may have pushed on further like we did under KK and Bobby Robson. We in turn would have made more money and we would have had no problems. TT no one on here is saying we shouldn't spend money! However, giving an abomination of a manager that was Souness more money to spend than Bobby Robson was an act so thick and stupid that it deserved lynching the c*** (Shepherd) I know that but this was down to clearing up the mess of past managers. We always do it. We have seasons of big spend and then next to nothing. Our problem with FFS was not down to the money he gave managers it was down to sacking managers so quickly which could also relate to hiring the wrong managers. Dalglish had the same problem. He had to do all the tidying of the club left over from KK as the club needed to reduce wages and get rid of squad members before cash could be made available again. heretic.......that never ever happened under hall/shepherd. NE5 will have you for that. what for ? It shows that they were aware of the need to re-group and then show the ambition again to try and be successful again ? I don't think Mike Ashley will do that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah but on lots of players on low wages. Gary Speed I believe was out most expensive purchase he brought. The players who came in were his choice though, some were utter garbage. To be honest the garbage ones cost next to noubt. Dalglish is the one manager I think if we had given time to would have made the club something special, but I'm on my own thinking that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I suggest you look at the league tables I've posted in the other thread, and the standing of the club in 2007 compared to 1991, as you aren't aware of it no matter what you pretend. This thread is about our latest set of accounts. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah but on lots of players on low wages. Gary Speed I believe was out most expensive purchase he brought. The players who came in were his choice though, some were utter garbage. To be honest the garbage ones cost next to noubt. Dalglish is the one manager I think if we had given time to would have made the club something special, but I'm on my own thinking that. t I'm not so sure. He already took on a special team! they finished 2nd two years in a row. It didn't need big changes. Selling Ferdinand, Ginola, Batty etc. was scandelous. He did bring in Solano, Speed, Given, so kudos there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 To be honest the garbage ones cost next to noubt. Dalglish is the one manager I think if we had given time to would have made the club something special, but I'm on my own thinking that. I know the garbage were mainly the cheap ones and some of his more expensive signings were without doubt the best but he paid good money for Andersson and Guivarc'h. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah but on lots of players on low wages. Gary Speed I believe was out most expensive purchase he brought. The players who came in were his choice though, some were utter garbage. To be honest the garbage ones cost next to noubt. Dalglish is the one manager I think if we had given time to would have made the club something special, but I'm on my own thinking that. t I'm not so sure. He already took on a special team! they finished 2nd two years in a row. It didn't need big changes. Selling Ferdinand, Ginola, Batty etc. was scandelous. He did bring in Solano, Speed, Given, so kudos there. Yeah but that was something he was told he had to do, sell those players. He openly admitted he didn't want rid of them and when we had no strikers he tried his best to keep the players. At the same time he did manage to get £6m for Ferdinand which at that age was good money. I've just looked at his purchases there on nufc.com he's only two duff signings were Andreas Andersson and Stephane Guivarc'h and they costs the total cost of £6.5m Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 To be honest the garbage ones cost next to noubt. Dalglish is the one manager I think if we had given time to would have made the club something special, but I'm on my own thinking that. I know the garbage were mainly the cheap ones and some of his more expensive signings were without doubt the best but he paid good money for Andersson and Guivarc'h. Like I said, he's only real duff signings. That's why I'm saying if he was given time I think he knew exactly what he was doing and would have got more signings in, in the mould of Given, Nobby, Shay, even bloody Hamann and we would have progressed. Wow this thread has turned round lol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Christ I'd forgotten about Stuart Pearce, what I'd give to find someone in his mould to show Enrique how to play at the minute. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Like I said, he's only real duff signings. That's why I'm saying if he was given time I think he knew exactly what he was doing and would have got more signings in, in the mould of Given, Nobby, Shay, even bloody Hamann and we would have progressed. Wow this thread has turned round lol I never felt that he'd work out for us although I didn't for one minute expect the drop from 2nd to 13th. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Like I said, he's only real duff signings. That's why I'm saying if he was given time I think he knew exactly what he was doing and would have got more signings in, in the mould of Given, Nobby, Shay, even bloody Hamann and we would have progressed. Wow this thread has turned round lol I never felt that he'd work out for us although I didn't for one minute expect the drop from 2nd to 13th. That was when I first started blaming the board as it was the change to the stock market and being forced to sell players than meant we had that drop. It's happening all over again now, my fear this time however is we won't spend big again and we'll be stuck with a dead end manager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 That was when I first started blaming the board as it was the change to the stock market and being forced to sell players than meant we had that drop. It's happening all over again now, my fear this time however is we won't spend big again and we'll be stuck with a dead end manager. I remember watching Shearer get badly injured and Kenny was interviewed about Ferdinand after the game and he claimed to know nothing about Ferdinand going to Spurs, I'm not sure if he was lying. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToonTastic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 That was when I first started blaming the board as it was the change to the stock market and being forced to sell players than meant we had that drop. It's happening all over again now, my fear this time however is we won't spend big again and we'll be stuck with a dead end manager. I remember watching Shearer get badly injured and Kenny was interviewed about Ferdinand after the game and he claimed to know nothing about Ferdinand going to Spurs, I'm not sure if he was lying. Ferdinand said himself Kenny tried his best to get him to stop but he didn't think he could cause the deal was that far down the line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Ferdinand said himself Kenny tried his best to get him to stop but he didn't think he could cause the deal was that far down the line. Yes but that was a while after the injury, possibly hours or the next day, I'm talking about straight after the game when interviewed by Sky. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zero Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 At that time the wage cost wasn't as high as now and so the deadwood clearing was a lot easier. Transfer fees are kinda sunk cost but wages are recurring cost. That's the reason why even after Gullit's silly spending SBR still managed to get a few players he wanted --- the money spent was mainly on the fees but not the wages at that time. Funds can be easily generated after 1-2 seasons low spending. Now we were get stucked by the rocket-high wages. The players signed after SBR era were all under very high wages --- for example, Luque, Emre, Parker. That's the main reason why our financial position gone so bad. Even the manager's left the wage cost's still there and it's much harder to find buyers - and certainly the players don't want to lower their wages too. I know it's unfair to Owen but if we look back the past few years the signing of Owen turns out to be the one that bring the club into disaster. It is not his fault (injury) but his transfer fees, his wages and his contribution are probably the worst investment in these few years, following by Luque. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 At that time the wage cost wasn't as high as now and so the deadwood clearing was a lot easier. Transfer fees are kinda sunk cost but wages are recurring cost. That's the reason why even after Gullit's silly spending SBR still managed to get a few players he wanted --- the money spent was mainly on the fees but not the wages at that time. Funds can be easily generated after 1-2 seasons low spending. Now we were get stucked by the rocket-high wages. The players signed after SBR era were all under very high wages --- for example, Luque, Emre, Parker. That's the main reason why our financial position gone so bad. Even the manager's left the wage cost's still there and it's much harder to find buyers - and certainly the players don't want to lower their wages too. I know it's unfair to Owen but if we look back the past few years the signing of Owen turns out to be the one that bring the club into disaster. It is not his fault (injury) but his transfer fees, his wages and his contribution are probably the worst investment in these few years, following by Luque. This is one area where Ashley's 'Triaxis of Evil' have donw bloody well. Dyer, Parker, Emre, Milner all out at a combined total of more than we paid for them. You can argue that prices have generally gone up, but we've never been able to command good fees for our unwanteds in the past. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I suggest you look at the league tables I've posted in the other thread, and the standing of the club in 2007 compared to 1991, as you aren't aware of it no matter what you pretend. This thread is about our latest set of accounts. believe it or not, your league position affects your income and therefore your accounts. And see post number 1058 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah but on lots of players on low wages. Gary Speed I believe was out most expensive purchase he brought. The players who came in were his choice though, some were utter garbage. To be honest the garbage ones cost next to noubt. Dalglish is the one manager I think if we had given time to would have made the club something special, but I'm on my own thinking that. t I'm not so sure. He already took on a special team! they finished 2nd two years in a row. It didn't need big changes. Selling Ferdinand, Ginola, Batty etc. was scandelous. He did bring in Solano, Speed, Given, so kudos there. ginola wanted away and looked it,batty started getting regular reccurring injuries, ferdinand was 30 and was going to be out a while with a back injury and we could get back what we paid. even if keegan had stayed big changes were needed, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I suggest you look at the league tables I've posted in the other thread, and the standing of the club in 2007 compared to 1991, as you aren't aware of it no matter what you pretend. This thread is about our latest set of accounts. believe it or not, your league position affects your income and therefore your accounts. And see post number 1058 i believe it, i believe it...just as your accounts affect the debt you can carry and the likelihood of people lending to you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hakka Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Yeah but on lots of players on low wages. Gary Speed I believe was out most expensive purchase he brought. The players who came in were his choice though, some were utter garbage. To be honest the garbage ones cost next to noubt. Dalglish is the one manager I think if we had given time to would have made the club something special, but I'm on my own thinking that. t I'm not so sure. He already took on a special team! they finished 2nd two years in a row. It didn't need big changes. Selling Ferdinand, Ginola, Batty etc. was scandelous. He did bring in Solano, Speed, Given, so kudos there. ginola wanted away and looked it,batty started getting regular reccurring injuries, ferdinand was 30 and was going to be out a while with a back injury and we could get back what we paid. even if keegan had stayed big changes were needed, Why did Ginola want away? two season of 2nd and he wanted to go? can you recall why? - Ferdinand went on to keep scoring goals, bringing in Andreas Anderson was or Stephain Guivarch was a bigger waste of money than keeping him. I guess bringing in Speed was fair enough for Batty leaving. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Has anyone mentioned Daldlish's master stroke of Pistone for £4.5m? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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