Is Mike Ashley steering Newcastle United in the right direction?

[UV]

 

The wage bill was of his own making. Correct me if I've missed someone, but I think there was only 1 high earning player who would have still been under contract this season (Duff) who was not signed or given a new contract under Ashley.

 

We sold 2, maybe 3 high earners in the Summer (Duff, Martins & maybe Beye although I doubt he was on that much). Are you saying that out of Duff, Martins, Beye, Coloccini, Gutierrez, Smith, Nolan, Barton, Geremi & Butt we would not have been able to sell 3 of them while in the Premiership, but thanks to getting relegated (and losing £40m+ revenue) we were luckily able to get 3 of the best of them off the books (saving £7-8m at most if you ignore the cost of paying their replacements). Great bit of business that was.

 

If hanging on to the rest of the high earners was due to the desire to have a very competitive team in the Championship rather than the fact no one was willing to pay their wages or give us a decent fee can you explain why for example we held on to the high earning, older, under performing Coloccini (who we had loads of offers for apparently  ) yet sold the low wage, younger and better performing Bassong?

 

I'm also interested in who exactly you think was making these footballing decisions? Unless he's the best liar I've seen, it certainly wasn't Hughton who repeatedly said he didn't have a clue what was going on in the Summer.

 

Until January, nothing that has happened this season has been by the good judgement of Ashley, it has just worked out like that fortunately for both us and him.

 

Will the new "plan" (whatever that may be) be better than the plan when he bought the club, or the revised plan when he brought in Keegan and a DoF, or the make it up as you go along plan trying to sell the club with Kinnear, or the "back on track" plan of a year ago when the club was off the market and he was definitely not selling, or the pre relegation get in a hero and sack the DoF plan, or the post relegation sell a club in limbo plan of the Summer? As we don't know what it really is who could possibly say, but do you really have any confidence he'd stick to it even if it was?

 

It looks like it's escaped you and a few others but the thing about those who left and those who didn't is that the players who wanted to leave left, while those who didn't want to leave have stayed apart from Geremi who moved on in January.  Somebody within the club made a decision before January to keep a squad of players that would get us out of this league and that looks like its going to pay off.

 

They also decided to give the manager’s job to Hughton before January and again that's paid off and I've been one of his biggest critics but he seems to be growing into the job.  Whoever made that decision looks to be right and I look to be wrong about him.

 

 

You're kidding yourself if you think any of the players (except maybe some of the local lads) wouldn't have jumped at the chance to move to stay in the Prem or move to a foreign league if they didn't have to take a cut in wages. Do you really think Duff is one of only 4 players who had a bad attitude and wanted out ahead of the likes of Coloccini for example who fucked off from his first club behind their back to join Milan and whose agent was in the press prior to him joining us threatening all sorts if Deportivo didn't let him leave for the "contract of a lifetime"?

 

Here's a quiz, which of the two's agents was this at the end of June:

 

For weeks now, I only hear silence from Newcastle,” said Lombilla, giving United fans another glimpse of a club in limbo.

 

“After the relegation, the directors seemed to decide to sell ******. But I have heard no more details.

 

“Now, without more information, the chances to sell him look negative.”

 

On Zaragoza’s interest, Lombilla warned: “I have spoken with them, but without knowing Newcastle’s position, it’s nearly impossible to do a deal.”

 

If the aim was either to reduce the wage bill while keeping a competitive team or just to get rid of those who wanted out they did a piss poor job of it, and I'm not sure how keeping players, staff and supporters completely in the dark until a matter of weeks before the season started fitted into either of these masterplans either. Towards the end of last season Llambias said they had a plan in place for if we got relegated, well apart from "fuck lets try and sell this piece of shit" we didn't see much of a plan last Summer at all. Far, far more likely there was plan A - we give up, forget about running the club, just sell it. Then when that failed on to plan B - quick, try and reduce the losses we'll have to carry this year by selling anyone we can to get the wages down and bring in some transfer cash.

 

Hughton doing well wasn't a good decision it was pure luck on their part, and of course they're not going to replace him if he's currently doing well, is cheap, and plays along with the pretence he's in charge of the squad without rocking the boat.

[quayside]

Sounds like Ashley still hasn't won everyone over then 

 

Whether by luck or some sort of judgement, or maybe a combination of the two, the set up this season should be adequate to get us back in the Premiership. I really can't believe Ashley is here for the long haul so, if promotion is achieved, I think it's likely we will see yet another attempt to sell as soon as the season is over. The club has to be more marketable with its guaranteed TV revenues, and that plus the lower cost base will push it towards viability. In the sell scenario the main concern is obviously who is out there to buy it? We can only hope it attracts a stellar investor. Some may find it hard to believe but there could be worse owners than Ashley. Even NE5 believed that iirc. Its quite possible that we end up with an owner as clueless as Ashley was when he bought in, but without the funds to pay for the mistakes. 

 

 

[Howaythelads]

Sounds like Ashley still hasn't won everyone over then 

 

Whether by luck or some sort of judgement, or maybe a combination of the two, the set up this season should be adequate to get us back in the Premiership. I really can't believe Ashley is here for the long haul so, if promotion is achieved, I think it's likely we will see yet another attempt to sell as soon as the season is over. The club has to be more marketable with its guaranteed TV revenues, and that plus the lower cost base will push it towards viability. In the sell scenario the main concern is obviously who is out there to buy it? We can only hope it attracts a stellar investor. Some may find it hard to believe but there could be worse owners than Ashley. Even NE5 believed that iirc. Its quite possible that we end up with an owner as clueless as Ashley was when he bought in, but without the funds to pay for the mistakes. 

 

 

 

Ashley is probably the worst in the history of the football club, so it'll be going some to end up with worse than him. Possible, but unlikely.

 

I'm suspicious he will attempt to sell the club again, simply in order to make it appear a bad time to bring in new players should the club be promoted. I'm also fairly certain that if he does try to sell that he'll price it out of the market.

 

I wonder what Llambias does on a daily basis other than call meetings? First thing I'd do is is ensure all meetings are "standing up" only affairs.

[stalker]

Sounds like Ashley still hasn't won everyone over then 

 

Whether by luck or some sort of judgement, or maybe a combination of the two, the set up this season should be adequate to get us back in the Premiership. I really can't believe Ashley is here for the long haul so, if promotion is achieved, I think it's likely we will see yet another attempt to sell as soon as the season is over. The club has to be more marketable with its guaranteed TV revenues, and that plus the lower cost base will push it towards viability. In the sell scenario the main concern is obviously who is out there to buy it? We can only hope it attracts a stellar investor. Some may find it hard to believe but there could be worse owners than Ashley. Even NE5 believed that iirc. Its quite possible that we end up with an owner as clueless as Ashley was when he bought in, but without the funds to pay for the mistakes. 

 

 

 

Ashley is probably the worst in the history of the football club, so it'll be going some to end up with worse than him. Possible, but unlikely.

 

I'm suspicious he will attempt to sell the club again, simply in order to make it appear a bad time to bring in new players should the club be promoted. I'm also fairly certain that if he does try to sell that he'll price it out of the market.

 

I wonder what Llambias does on a daily basis other than call meetings? First thing I'd do is is ensure all meetings are "standing up" only affairs.

 

Agree nearly entirely with you. Don't think he is pretending to sell the club as a ruse to not do transfers though, that's just an added benefit when he fails to sell as he has an excuse. He has repeatedly over valued the club and can't see it being any different this time. The club must be worth more to someone else than to him as many supporters are still very angry (although I am slightly concerned by the apathy many fans have begun to show, and even more by the number who now praise him) which would seem to suggest that a price could be agreed on but I think he is just too greedy and will demand more than it is worth to a liked owner anyway.

[Guest bobthemag]

 

I see them (ashley and lamb chop) as inept wankers who have almost destroyed a football club I've supported for over 40 years due to a whole series of bad decisions.

 

It's comments like this that make me about some of our support, football is emotive, but after 12-18months you'd hope that people would start to get a sense of perspective, particularly when other events in the footballing world unfold and shed some light on the underlying situation at every business.

 

Footballing-wise, there have been some horrendous mistakes made, especially the attempt to sign Harry Redknapp (wtf?!) then the doomed appointment of KK; however, it is noticeable that their decisions are improving (even if it's just because they are making fewer of them).

 

Business-wise, we can only really go off the numbers published at the end of every year, as we all know that the club have deliberately misled the supporters in the past. To date, the financial situation is improving, so I find it hard to fault Ashley for those decisions.

 

So what's the problem with HTL's point???

 

The "whole series of bad decisions" made by the "inept wankers" led a lot of people to draw the conclusion that they were deliberately trying to destroy the club.

 

The ineptitude is beyond question. Drawing the conclusion that were deliberately trying to destroy the club is laughable.

 

1. Did ashley deliberately buy the football club without understanding exactly what he was buying?

2. Did ashley deliberately appoint Keegan?

3. Did ashley deliberately install a system that would not possibly work with a manager of that temperament?

4. Did ashley deliberately back Wise over Keegan?

5. Did ashley deliberately appoint a bloody joke as a manager?

6. Did ashley deliberately appoint a coach as a manager?

7. Did ashley deliberately appoint Shearer as manager, a man has no previous experience, thereby showing his panic at the situation?

9. Did ashley deliberately put the club up for sale then withdraw it from sale more than once, undermining the entire football club?

10. Did ashley deliberately see a surplus of money from transfer dealings during Jan 2009?

11. Was the club relegated by 1 point at the end of that season?

 

Whether the b****** deliberately set out to ruin the club is not the point because nobody said that anyway, but his actions have lead to almost total ruin of the football club and there is no excuse.

 

It wasn't just his actions though, you can't simply ignore what went on beforehand under Shepherd where we borrowed heavily and sooner or later the belt would have to be tightened. You can't just roll Souness and Allardyce's time here under a carpet when so much damage was inflicted by these appointments.

I never have. I know they were bad appointments, especially sourness. I've said so numerous times.

 

I also know that those who are somehow supporting ashley now are the same people (like mandiarse) who were telling everyone to give sourness time to build his own team. I also remember that when I posted I didn't want the Board to back Sourness with money in the January window I was slated and told that the Board HAD to stump up the cash otherwise they would be confirmed as being s****.

 

I do understand that people want to whinge on about the previous Board because we had a good team but didn't win the title, especially after only signing 3 players in 2003 when we should have apparently signed half a team, but everything Ashley has done has been far worse than anything done by the previous Board.

 

So what? The previous board sold up and f***ed off with the money because they wanted to. No one held a gun to their head otherwise they could still be here now...and in fact if they wanted to invest some cash they could buy it back same way as Ashley did. But they won't because they don't want to put their money in Newcastle and neither does anyone else. Until someone does it's pointless whingeing at the only bloke who's putting anything in no matter how reluctantly he's doing it.

 

how much are supporters putting in ?

 

How many people on here go to games

 

 

 

If you mean what the club collects annually in Matchday revenues it's not known for this season yet. When we were in the Premiership it was between £30m and £35m every year between 2005 and 2008.

 

Edit: On your second question - don't live locally any more so go to about 5 home games a season.

 

don't supporters put more money into the club than Mike Ashleys says he is doing ?

 

Supporters won't get it back like he will do when he sells too.

 

Does he not realise that dropping down a league has hit revenue ?

 

 

 

Re quantity of supporters' money vs Ashley's money, I think that season on season it's currently a close-run thing, but it's a bit of a daft argument in any case. And there's no way he'll ever get back all the money he's put it into the club. Hell, he was going to sell up last year at a £150 million loss (four or five years' Premier League matchday revenue).

 

Meanwhile, if you happen to know any billionaires who want to better the amount Ashley's currently putting in, please sit them down for a beer and try to persuade them to buy the club.

 

but hasn't Lambias said Ashley has put in more money than anybody else ?

 

He will want it back as well if he can.

 

Ashley has put in more money than anybody else though.

 

supporters have supported the club longer than Mike Ashley has 

 

Eh?

 

supporters have put more money into the club than anyone.

 

 

[ToonTastic]

Ashley is probably the worst in the history of the football club, so it'll be going some to end up with worse than him. Possible, but unlikely.

 

Come on I know you've followed the club long enough and know enough about the history of Newcastle to know that's not totally true.

[Mick]

 

 

Could be worse.

 

If the club owned the ground he'd have tried to sell it for development and had us playing at either Gateshead or sharing the stadium of s**** with the dirty, stinking, filthy mackems.

 

That might be worse but it's hardly original, Sir John was trying to do that 20 years ago.

[Howaythelads]

Ashley is probably the worst in the history of the football club, so it'll be going some to end up with worse than him. Possible, but unlikely.

 

Come on I know you've followed the club long enough and know enough about the history of Newcastle to know that's not totally true.

 

Well he's the worst in my lifetime, which goes back half a century.

[Howaythelads]

 

 

Could be worse.

 

If the club owned the ground he'd have tried to sell it for development and had us playing at either Gateshead or sharing the stadium of s**** with the dirty, stinking, filthy mackems.

 

That might be worse but it's hardly original, Sir John was trying to do that 20 years ago.

 

Are you talking about the efforts of SJH to help secure the clubs future by building a new stadium rather than spending money on developing SJP? That's very different so your rebuttal is rather weak, tbh.

 

I hadn't realised the mackems dump had been around for 20 years...

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

I see them (ashley and lamb chop) as inept wankers who have almost destroyed a football club I've supported for over 40 years due to a whole series of bad decisions.

 

It's comments like this that make me about some of our support, football is emotive, but after 12-18months you'd hope that people would start to get a sense of perspective, particularly when other events in the footballing world unfold and shed some light on the underlying situation at every business.

 

Footballing-wise, there have been some horrendous mistakes made, especially the attempt to sign Harry Redknapp (wtf?!) then the doomed appointment of KK; however, it is noticeable that their decisions are improving (even if it's just because they are making fewer of them).

 

Business-wise, we can only really go off the numbers published at the end of every year, as we all know that the club have deliberately misled the supporters in the past. To date, the financial situation is improving, so I find it hard to fault Ashley for those decisions.

 

So what's the problem with HTL's point???

 

The "whole series of bad decisions" made by the "inept wankers" led a lot of people to draw the conclusion that they were deliberately trying to destroy the club.

 

The ineptitude is beyond question. Drawing the conclusion that were deliberately trying to destroy the club is laughable.

 

1. Did ashley deliberately buy the football club without understanding exactly what he was buying?

2. Did ashley deliberately appoint Keegan?

3. Did ashley deliberately install a system that would not possibly work with a manager of that temperament?

4. Did ashley deliberately back Wise over Keegan?

5. Did ashley deliberately appoint a bloody joke as a manager?

6. Did ashley deliberately appoint a coach as a manager?

7. Did ashley deliberately appoint Shearer as manager, a man has no previous experience, thereby showing his panic at the situation?

9. Did ashley deliberately put the club up for sale then withdraw it from sale more than once, undermining the entire football club?

10. Did ashley deliberately see a surplus of money from transfer dealings during Jan 2009?

11. Was the club relegated by 1 point at the end of that season?

 

Whether the b****** deliberately set out to ruin the club is not the point because nobody said that anyway, but his actions have lead to almost total ruin of the football club and there is no excuse.

 

It wasn't just his actions though, you can't simply ignore what went on beforehand under Shepherd where we borrowed heavily and sooner or later the belt would have to be tightened. You can't just roll Souness and Allardyce's time here under a carpet when so much damage was inflicted by these appointments.

I never have. I know they were bad appointments, especially sourness. I've said so numerous times.

 

I also know that those who are somehow supporting ashley now are the same people (like mandiarse) who were telling everyone to give sourness time to build his own team. I also remember that when I posted I didn't want the Board to back Sourness with money in the January window I was slated and told that the Board HAD to stump up the cash otherwise they would be confirmed as being s****.

 

I do understand that people want to whinge on about the previous Board because we had a good team but didn't win the title, especially after only signing 3 players in 2003 when we should have apparently signed half a team, but everything Ashley has done has been far worse than anything done by the previous Board.

 

So what? The previous board sold up and f***ed off with the money because they wanted to. No one held a gun to their head otherwise they could still be here now...and in fact if they wanted to invest some cash they could buy it back same way as Ashley did. But they won't because they don't want to put their money in Newcastle and neither does anyone else. Until someone does it's pointless whingeing at the only bloke who's putting anything in no matter how reluctantly he's doing it.

 

how much are supporters putting in ?

 

How many people on here go to games

 

 

 

If you mean what the club collects annually in Matchday revenues it's not known for this season yet. When we were in the Premiership it was between £30m and £35m every year between 2005 and 2008.

 

Edit: On your second question - don't live locally any more so go to about 5 home games a season.

 

don't supporters put more money into the club than Mike Ashleys says he is doing ?

 

Supporters won't get it back like he will do when he sells too.

 

Does he not realise that dropping down a league has hit revenue ?

 

 

 

Re quantity of supporters' money vs Ashley's money, I think that season on season it's currently a close-run thing, but it's a bit of a daft argument in any case. And there's no way he'll ever get back all the money he's put it into the club. Hell, he was going to sell up last year at a £150 million loss (four or five years' Premier League matchday revenue).

 

Meanwhile, if you happen to know any billionaires who want to better the amount Ashley's currently putting in, please sit them down for a beer and try to persuade them to buy the club.

 

but hasn't Lambias said Ashley has put in more money than anybody else ?

 

He will want it back as well if he can.

 

Ashley has put in more money than anybody else though.

 

supporters have supported the club longer than Mike Ashley has 

 

Eh?

 

supporters have put more money into the club than anyone.

 

 

 

I'll be honest, I can't think of one.

[ToonTastic]

Ashley is probably the worst in the history of the football club, so it'll be going some to end up with worse than him. Possible, but unlikely.

 

Come on I know you've followed the club long enough and know enough about the history of Newcastle to know that's not totally true.

 

Well he's the worst in my lifetime, which goes back half a century.

 

Give over, what was going on in the 80s with the boardroom we had then including Gordon McKeag was alot worse than we've had under Ashley.

[madras]

if some think the position that was left by fred & co has no bearing on what happened subsequently then it's pointless even discussing it.

[Howaythelads]

Ashley is probably the worst in the history of the football club, so it'll be going some to end up with worse than him. Possible, but unlikely.

 

Come on I know you've followed the club long enough and know enough about the history of Newcastle to know that's not totally true.

 

Well he's the worst in my lifetime, which goes back half a century.

 

Give over, what was going on in the 80s with the boardroom we had then including Gordon McKeag was alot worse than we've had under Ashley.

 

In your opinion.

[ToonTastic]

Ashley is probably the worst in the history of the football club, so it'll be going some to end up with worse than him. Possible, but unlikely.

 

Come on I know you've followed the club long enough and know enough about the history of Newcastle to know that's not totally true.

 

Well he's the worst in my lifetime, which goes back half a century.

 

Give over, what was going on in the 80s with the boardroom we had then including Gordon McKeag was alot worse than we've had under Ashley.

 

In your opinion.

 

Indeed

[UV]

I don't think Ashley will put the club up for sale this Summer like he has done before. Obviously it will still be for sale at a price, but I don't think he'll put up the shutters and put it openly on the market like previously. All the noise coming out of the club recently suggests he intends to hang on to it for a while now, and I can't see any reason for putting that message across now except to get some preparation work in lowering expectations for a Summer of low budget transfers while everyone's on a high from (hopefully) the promotion run in, and in an atmosphere where a number of clubs (with far, far less resources than us) are going under.

 

If we get promoted, spend around £10m net on transfers but keep the wage bill around £40-50m, next season he should make a good £20-30m profit which he can use to pay off some of his loans. There's no incentive for him to sell at a cut down price if we get promoted this season.

[Incognito]

If he puts it up for sale at the end of the season,promotion or not ,its just a cover for not investing in the squad,during the summer window

[Guest JamesyJazz]

If he puts it up for sale at the end of the season,promotion or not ,its just a cover for not investing in the squad,during the summer window

 

Until and if we get pronotion most of the above are pure supposition and conjecture.

Ashley ballsed up big style almost from day one,has taken the piss out of the fans nearly as much as FFS and young Hall managed but although I do not totally trust him or his sidekicks I'm more comfortable with him after seeing what his team did in the Jan transfer window,Best excluded.

If we go up then we have to accept that the days of machine gunning huge sums of sponsors/owners cash on invariably gash players is a thing of the past both for us and the vast majority of the Premier.The probability of an Italian style collapse of a decade or so ago is hiding just around the next corner

The constraints of heaping debt upon debt just to produce a mediocre team,i.e Portsmouth,no longer makes sense.

Look at how much was spent by clubs this last window,nearly half of last year?

Liverpool,Manure are both struggling with debt.Liverpool will,unless refinanced have to sell Gerhard/Torres or both imo.

If Ashley stays at the helm I'm of the opinion that he will strengthen the squad accordingly but not a la style of Hall/FF.We'll have to get used to being a mid table side at best for the next few seasons whilst we build up a squad steadily and invest in youth.

Don't get me wrong,I'd be as happy as the next man if we were taken over by a ManCity type of owner with a never ending  bankroll but realisticly will we ever see the likes again?

[Exiled in Texas]

Well put Jamesy

[TRon]

if some think the position that was left by fred & co has no bearing on what happened subsequently then it's pointless even discussing it.

 

Said this a few pages back but then context is usually a casualty in these type of debates.

[Howaythelads]

if some think the position that was left by fred & co has no bearing on what happened subsequently then it's pointless even discussing it.

Said this a few pages back but then context is usually a casualty in these type of debates.

 

The horrendous decision making of Ashley since buying the club has absolutely nothing at all to do with the previous Board, to suggest otherwise is a nonsense imo.

 

There has been a litany of errors committed by Ashley that have nothing to do with the previous Board:

• 
  For 2 seasons causing stagnation and uncertainty within the club.
  Demotivating the players by putting them all up for sale.
  Appointing Keegan, a manager unsuited to his plan.
  When attempting to implement his plan, making a poor appointment in Wise.
  Bringing in Kinnear on a temporary basis, resulting in yet more stagnation and uncertainty.
  Replacing Kinnear with a coach.
  Replacing that coach with Shearer, a temporary manager of a sort.
  Replacing Shearer with a coach, Hughton.
  No significant improvement in playing staff in preparation for the current season.
  A lack of direction from the top undermining preparation.
  Failing to really appoint a proven manager at all since the departure of Keegan.
  Complaining about the wage bill yet being responsible for much of it by calling the shots when the club signed the likes of :
  Viduka, Barton, Rozenhal, Geremi, Smith, Cacapa, Beye, Coloccini, Enrique, Xisco, Gutierrez, Gonzalez.
  Undermining himself by sitting with fans in the stands and by going around with "Smith" on the back of a Newcastle top.
  Creating the environment in which the likes of apparently previously settled players such as Milner, N'Zogbia, Given, Martins and Bassong all wanted to leave. Some of those were probably not on a massive take home, comparatively speaking and would have probably been of some assistance in the quest to retain PL status, lost by 1 point.
  Willingness to blame the supporters for everything.
  Appointing first Mort and then Llambias to an important role.
  

 

There will be other blunders to add to this list but I've got something to do right now and this is all pretty much off the top of my head. Sorry if some of these are incorrect, I'm sure someone will point it out as a part of any debate. 

 

From the day Ashley took over the club until ~2 months ago he's been taking the club backwards and that is of concern regardless of whether he has recently decided to attempt to reverse that trend. Since the turn of 2010 Ashley appears to be steering the club in the right direction by allowing the manager to boost the numbers in the squad. Big Deal!

[Guest Pie]

if some think the position that was left by fred & co has no bearing on what happened subsequently then it's pointless even discussing it.

 

Said this a few pages back but then context is usually a casualty in these type of debates.

You're right. However, some will never be right enough to understand that

[Guest Brummiemag]

if some think the position that was left by fred & co has no bearing on what happened subsequently then it's pointless even discussing it.

Said this a few pages back but then context is usually a casualty in these type of debates.

 

The horrendous decision making of Ashley since buying the club has absolutely nothing at all to do with the previous Board, to suggest otherwise is a nonsense imo.

 

There has been a litany of errors committed by Ashley that have nothing to do with the previous Board:

• 
  For 2 seasons causing stagnation and uncertainty within the club.
  Demotivating the players by putting them all up for sale.
  Appointing Keegan, a manager unsuited to his plan.
  When attempting to implement his plan, making a poor appointment in Wise.
  Bringing in Kinnear on a temporary basis, resulting in yet more stagnation and uncertainty.
  Replacing Kinnear with a coach.
  Replacing that coach with Shearer, a temporary manager of a sort.
  Replacing Shearer with a coach, Hughton.
  No significant improvement in playing staff in preparation for the current season.
  A lack of direction from the top undermining preparation.
  Failing to really appoint a proven manager at all since the departure of Keegan.
  Complaining about the wage bill yet being responsible for much of it by calling the shots when the club signed the likes of :
  Viduka, Barton, Rozenhal, Geremi, Smith, Cacapa, Beye, Coloccini, Enrique, Xisco, Gutierrez, Gonzalez.
  Undermining himself by sitting with fans in the stands and by going around with "Smith" on the back of a Newcastle top.
  Creating the environment in which the likes of apparently previously settled players such as Milner, N'Zogbia, Given, Martins and Bassong all wanted to leave. Some of those were probably not on a massive take home, comparatively speaking and would have probably been of some assistance in the quest to retain PL status, lost by 1 point.
  Willingness to blame the supporters for everything.
  Appointing first Mort and then Llambias to an important role.
  

 

There will be other blunders to add to this list but I've got something to do right now and this is all pretty much off the top of my head. Sorry if some of these are incorrect, I'm sure someone will point it out as a part of any debate. 

 

From the day Ashley took over the club until ~2 months ago he's been taking the club backwards and that is of concern regardless of whether he has recently decided to attempt to reverse that trend. Since the turn of 2010 Ashley appears to be steering the club in the right direction by allowing the manager to boost the numbers in the squad. Big Deal!

 

Good post, I agree with it all although I dont think the actual appointment of Keegan was a mistake, but the shameful way he was treated most certainly was.

 

Anything that he is doing right now, is simply a belated attempt to protect his investment and make sure we get promoted so he can try yet again to sell up but obviously at a higher price than he would get if we stay in this division .

 

I also think that one of his biggest mistakes, which continues to this day, is his complete inability to communicate. I don't think I have ever heard him speak - if only he would come out and say to the fans what his intentions are, admit to the mistakes he has made and talk about his plans for the future, then he just might win a few people over - but he never does and he probably never will     

[madras]

if some think the position that was left by fred & co has no bearing on what happened subsequently then it's pointless even discussing it.

Said this a few pages back but then context is usually a casualty in these type of debates.

 

The horrendous decision making of Ashley since buying the club has absolutely nothing at all to do with the previous Board, to suggest otherwise is a nonsense imo.

 

There has been a litany of errors committed by Ashley that have nothing to do with the previous Board:

• 
  For 2 seasons causing stagnation and uncertainty within the club.
  Demotivating the players by putting them all up for sale.
  Appointing Keegan, a manager unsuited to his plan.
  When attempting to implement his plan, making a poor appointment in Wise.
  Bringing in Kinnear on a temporary basis, resulting in yet more stagnation and uncertainty.
  Replacing Kinnear with a coach.
  Replacing that coach with Shearer, a temporary manager of a sort.
  Replacing Shearer with a coach, Hughton.
  No significant improvement in playing staff in preparation for the current season.
  A lack of direction from the top undermining preparation.
  Failing to really appoint a proven manager at all since the departure of Keegan.
  Complaining about the wage bill yet being responsible for much of it by calling the shots when the club signed the likes of :
  Viduka, Barton, Rozenhal, Geremi, Smith, Cacapa, Beye, Coloccini, Enrique, Xisco, Gutierrez, Gonzalez.
  Undermining himself by sitting with fans in the stands and by going around with "Smith" on the back of a Newcastle top.
  Creating the environment in which the likes of apparently previously settled players such as Milner, N'Zogbia, Given, Martins and Bassong all wanted to leave. Some of those were probably not on a massive take home, comparatively speaking and would have probably been of some assistance in the quest to retain PL status, lost by 1 point.
  Willingness to blame the supporters for everything.
  Appointing first Mort and then Llambias to an important role.
  

 

There will be other blunders to add to this list but I've got something to do right now and this is all pretty much off the top of my head. Sorry if some of these are incorrect, I'm sure someone will point it out as a part of any debate. 

 

From the day Ashley took over the club until ~2 months ago he's been taking the club backwards and that is of concern regardless of whether he has recently decided to attempt to reverse that trend. Since the turn of 2010 Ashley appears to be steering the club in the right direction by allowing the manager to boost the numbers in the squad. Big Deal!

and most of that had also been seen in the last years of the previous board.

 

replacing robson with souness at a ridiculous time then replacing him with roeder

running up the wage bill to well over 60%,

not strebgthening when doing well and in a position to do so (bowyer).

 

 

i'll ask you what i asked someone else on here a while a go, where was the money going to come from given that we were running at a considerable loss, and had little left to borrow against ?

 

yes the club had gone backwards in ashleys 2 years but it had been going backwards since 2004 and you'll find a few people voicing the opinion that had fred and allardyce stayed we'd have went down that season.

[Howaythelads]

if some think the position that was left by fred & co has no bearing on what happened subsequently then it's pointless even discussing it.

Said this a few pages back but then context is usually a casualty in these type of debates.

 

The horrendous decision making of Ashley since buying the club has absolutely nothing at all to do with the previous Board, to suggest otherwise is a nonsense imo.

 

There has been a litany of errors committed by Ashley that have nothing to do with the previous Board:

• 
  For 2 seasons causing stagnation and uncertainty within the club.
  Demotivating the players by putting them all up for sale.
  Appointing Keegan, a manager unsuited to his plan.
  When attempting to implement his plan, making a poor appointment in Wise.
  Bringing in Kinnear on a temporary basis, resulting in yet more stagnation and uncertainty.
  Replacing Kinnear with a coach.
  Replacing that coach with Shearer, a temporary manager of a sort.
  Replacing Shearer with a coach, Hughton.
  No significant improvement in playing staff in preparation for the current season.
  A lack of direction from the top undermining preparation.
  Failing to really appoint a proven manager at all since the departure of Keegan.
  Complaining about the wage bill yet being responsible for much of it by calling the shots when the club signed the likes of :
  Viduka, Barton, Rozenhal, Geremi, Smith, Cacapa, Beye, Coloccini, Enrique, Xisco, Gutierrez, Gonzalez.
  Undermining himself by sitting with fans in the stands and by going around with "Smith" on the back of a Newcastle top.
  Creating the environment in which the likes of apparently previously settled players such as Milner, N'Zogbia, Given, Martins and Bassong all wanted to leave. Some of those were probably not on a massive take home, comparatively speaking and would have probably been of some assistance in the quest to retain PL status, lost by 1 point.
  Willingness to blame the supporters for everything.
  Appointing first Mort and then Llambias to an important role.
  

 

There will be other blunders to add to this list but I've got something to do right now and this is all pretty much off the top of my head. Sorry if some of these are incorrect, I'm sure someone will point it out as a part of any debate. 

 

From the day Ashley took over the club until ~2 months ago he's been taking the club backwards and that is of concern regardless of whether he has recently decided to attempt to reverse that trend. Since the turn of 2010 Ashley appears to be steering the club in the right direction by allowing the manager to boost the numbers in the squad. Big Deal!

and most of that had also been seen in the last years of the previous board.

 

replacing robson with souness at a ridiculous time then replacing him with roeder

running up the wage bill to well over 60%,

not strebgthening when doing well and in a position to do so (bowyer).

 

 

i'll ask you what i asked someone else on here a while a go, where was the money going to come from given that we were running at a considerable loss, and had little left to borrow against ?

 

yes the club had gone backwards in ashleys 2 years but it had been going backwards since 2004 and you'll find a few people voicing the opinion that had fred and allardyce stayed we'd have went down that season.

 

What on earth are you on about now? I've listed Ashley's mistakes because you and some others appear to think the sun shines out of his arse.  I don't believe anything in that list of cock-ups can be disputed.

 

I see you're trying to change the subject now so I'll only reply to your points in this single post, I've no intention of going over old ground with you that has already passed you by. I've commented on the timing of Robson's departure many times before and I will say the same again in reply to what is really a very poor criticism. Robson himself took up the manager's job at a similar stage of the season to when he finally departed. The timing wasn't a problem on that occasion. Why was that?

 

Also, the previous Board had a record of buying players from a position of strength and they did so whenever possible, so we will simply have to disagree on your criticism in that area.

[madras]

if some think the position that was left by fred & co has no bearing on what happened subsequently then it's pointless even discussing it.

Said this a few pages back but then context is usually a casualty in these type of debates.

 

The horrendous decision making of Ashley since buying the club has absolutely nothing at all to do with the previous Board, to suggest otherwise is a nonsense imo.

 

There has been a litany of errors committed by Ashley that have nothing to do with the previous Board:

• 
  For 2 seasons causing stagnation and uncertainty within the club.
  Demotivating the players by putting them all up for sale.
  Appointing Keegan, a manager unsuited to his plan.
  When attempting to implement his plan, making a poor appointment in Wise.
  Bringing in Kinnear on a temporary basis, resulting in yet more stagnation and uncertainty.
  Replacing Kinnear with a coach.
  Replacing that coach with Shearer, a temporary manager of a sort.
  Replacing Shearer with a coach, Hughton.
  No significant improvement in playing staff in preparation for the current season.
  A lack of direction from the top undermining preparation.
  Failing to really appoint a proven manager at all since the departure of Keegan.
  Complaining about the wage bill yet being responsible for much of it by calling the shots when the club signed the likes of :
  Viduka, Barton, Rozenhal, Geremi, Smith, Cacapa, Beye, Coloccini, Enrique, Xisco, Gutierrez, Gonzalez.
  Undermining himself by sitting with fans in the stands and by going around with "Smith" on the back of a Newcastle top.
  Creating the environment in which the likes of apparently previously settled players such as Milner, N'Zogbia, Given, Martins and Bassong all wanted to leave. Some of those were probably not on a massive take home, comparatively speaking and would have probably been of some assistance in the quest to retain PL status, lost by 1 point.
  Willingness to blame the supporters for everything.
  Appointing first Mort and then Llambias to an important role.
  

 

There will be other blunders to add to this list but I've got something to do right now and this is all pretty much off the top of my head. Sorry if some of these are incorrect, I'm sure someone will point it out as a part of any debate. 

 

From the day Ashley took over the club until ~2 months ago he's been taking the club backwards and that is of concern regardless of whether he has recently decided to attempt to reverse that trend. Since the turn of 2010 Ashley appears to be steering the club in the right direction by allowing the manager to boost the numbers in the squad. Big Deal!

and most of that had also been seen in the last years of the previous board.

 

replacing robson with souness at a ridiculous time then replacing him with roeder

running up the wage bill to well over 60%,

not strebgthening when doing well and in a position to do so (bowyer).

 

 

i'll ask you what i asked someone else on here a while a go, where was the money going to come from given that we were running at a considerable loss, and had little left to borrow against ?

 

yes the club had gone backwards in ashleys 2 years but it had been going backwards since 2004 and you'll find a few people voicing the opinion that had fred and allardyce stayed we'd have went down that season.

 

What on earth are you on about now? I've listed Ashley's mistakes because you and some others appear to think the sun shines out of his arse.  I don't believe anything in that list of cock-ups can be disputed.

 

I see you're trying to change the subject now so I'll only reply to your points in this single post, I've no intention of going over old ground with you that has already passed you by. I've commented on the timing of Robson's departure many times before and I will say the same again in reply to what is really a very poor criticism. Robson himself took up the manager's job at a similar stage of the season to when he finally departed. The timing wasn't a problem on that occasion. Why was that?

 

Also, the previous Board had a record of buying players from a position of strength and they did so whenever possible, so we will simply have to disagree on your criticism in that area.

so are you disputing those cock ups of the previous board. as for the sun shining out of his arse....take a look and you'll find most think he's kept the club going the way it had  been since 2004.

 

the difference with the timing of robsons arrival was that we were very lucky to have someone like him around and available.

 

where was the money going to come from htl as you seem to have missed my question, give we were running at a considerable loss and had little left to borrow against ?