Liverpool and their fans

[Liam Liam Liam O]

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/liverpool-fc/2010/06/28/culture-minister-slammed-for-hillsborough-comments-55578-26743327/

 

 

Culture minister slammed for Hillsborough comments

Jun 28 2010

 

A FORMER minister branded Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunts remarks on the Hillsborough disaster a "disgrace" in the Commons today.

 

Labours Derek Twigg said relatives of the 96 people killed in the April 1989 incident were "deeply distressed" by Mr Hunts comments.

 

Home Secretary Theresa May said the judicial inquiry into the disaster had been "absolutely clear" that no Liverpool supporters were to blame and she agreed to meet representatives of the families.

 

Mr Hunts remark came during an interview about Englands poor performance in the World Cup.

 

He said he was "incredibly encouraged by the example set by the England fans. I mean, not a single arrest for a football-related offence, and the terrible problems that we had in Heysel and Hillsborough in the 1980s seem now to be behind us".

 

He later apologised to Liverpool fans and the families of those killed and injured. The 96 fans died and hundreds more were injured after a crush developed in the Leppings Lane end of Sheffield Wednesdays Hillsborough stadium during an FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest.

 

During Commons question time, Mr Twigg (Halton) told Mrs May: "You will be aware of the comments by the Culture Secretary this morning linking the Hillsborough disaster to football hooliganism - this is a disgrace.

 

"Ive just recently spoken to some of the families who lost loved ones at Hillsborough - theyre deeply distressed by this and angry about whats happened.

 

"How can they have trust in the Government that they will see through the proper release of the Hillsborough files given that thats the view held in high parts of the Government?"

 

He asked Mrs May to meet "urgently" Mr Hunt and the families of those killed to discuss the matter.

 

The Home Secretary pointed to Mr Hunts apology, adding: "The judicial inquiry was absolutely clear on this point - the Taylor Report cleared Liverpool supporters of any allegations they were to blame for the terrible events that took place at that time.

 

"The families of those who sadly lost their lives in the Hillsborough disaster have conducted a very dignified campaign over the years to try to ensure that the information is released and that they are able to see all the details of what happened at that time.

 

"I have already met the Bishop of Liverpool to discuss the work that his panel is doing in looking at these issues. I would indeed be happy to meet representatives of the Hillsborough families."

 

Lord Justice Taylors official inquiry into the disaster, which reported in 1990, criticised senior police officers on duty at the match for a "failure of control" and recommended the introduction of all-seater stadiums.

 

A group set up to study previously secret documents relating to the Hillsborough tragedy met for the first time in February.

 

The Hillsborough Independent Panel, led by the Bishop of Liverpool, the Right Rev James Jones, will oversee the public disclosure of archives held by the emergency services, the city council and other public bodies in Sheffield

 

 

 

Why?

[Guest elbee909]

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/liverpool-fc/2010/06/28/culture-minister-slammed-for-hillsborough-comments-55578-26743327/

 

 

Culture minister slammed for Hillsborough comments

Jun 28 2010

 

A FORMER minister branded Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunts remarks on the Hillsborough disaster a "disgrace" in the Commons today.

 

Labours Derek Twigg said relatives of the 96 people killed in the April 1989 incident were "deeply distressed" by Mr Hunts comments.

 

Home Secretary Theresa May said the judicial inquiry into the disaster had been "absolutely clear" that no Liverpool supporters were to blame and she agreed to meet representatives of the families.

 

Mr Hunts remark came during an interview about Englands poor performance in the World Cup.

 

He said he was "incredibly encouraged by the example set by the England fans. I mean, not a single arrest for a football-related offence, and the terrible problems that we had in Heysel and Hillsborough in the 1980s seem now to be behind us".

 

He later apologised to Liverpool fans and the families of those killed and injured. The 96 fans died and hundreds more were injured after a crush developed in the Leppings Lane end of Sheffield Wednesdays Hillsborough stadium during an FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest.

 

During Commons question time, Mr Twigg (Halton) told Mrs May: "You will be aware of the comments by the Culture Secretary this morning linking the Hillsborough disaster to football hooliganism - this is a disgrace.

 

"Ive just recently spoken to some of the families who lost loved ones at Hillsborough - theyre deeply distressed by this and angry about whats happened.

 

"How can they have trust in the Government that they will see through the proper release of the Hillsborough files given that thats the view held in high parts of the Government?"

 

He asked Mrs May to meet "urgently" Mr Hunt and the families of those killed to discuss the matter.

 

The Home Secretary pointed to Mr Hunts apology, adding: "The judicial inquiry was absolutely clear on this point - the Taylor Report cleared Liverpool supporters of any allegations they were to blame for the terrible events that took place at that time.

 

"The families of those who sadly lost their lives in the Hillsborough disaster have conducted a very dignified campaign over the years to try to ensure that the information is released and that they are able to see all the details of what happened at that time.

 

"I have already met the Bishop of Liverpool to discuss the work that his panel is doing in looking at these issues. I would indeed be happy to meet representatives of the Hillsborough families."

 

Lord Justice Taylors official inquiry into the disaster, which reported in 1990, criticised senior police officers on duty at the match for a "failure of control" and recommended the introduction of all-seater stadiums.

 

A group set up to study previously secret documents relating to the Hillsborough tragedy met for the first time in February.

 

The Hillsborough Independent Panel, led by the Bishop of Liverpool, the Right Rev James Jones, will oversee the public disclosure of archives held by the emergency services, the city council and other public bodies in Sheffield

 

 

 

Why?

 

So they can keep going on and on and on and on etc.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

Nevermind/

[indi]

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/sport-news/liverpool-fc/2010/06/28/culture-minister-slammed-for-hillsborough-comments-55578-26743327/

 

 

Culture minister slammed for Hillsborough comments

Jun 28 2010

 

A FORMER minister branded Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunts remarks on the Hillsborough disaster a "disgrace" in the Commons today.

 

Labours Derek Twigg said relatives of the 96 people killed in the April 1989 incident were "deeply distressed" by Mr Hunts comments.

 

Home Secretary Theresa May said the judicial inquiry into the disaster had been "absolutely clear" that no Liverpool supporters were to blame and she agreed to meet representatives of the families.

 

Mr Hunts remark came during an interview about Englands poor performance in the World Cup.

 

He said he was "incredibly encouraged by the example set by the England fans. I mean, not a single arrest for a football-related offence, and the terrible problems that we had in Heysel and Hillsborough in the 1980s seem now to be behind us".

 

He later apologised to Liverpool fans and the families of those killed and injured. The 96 fans died and hundreds more were injured after a crush developed in the Leppings Lane end of Sheffield Wednesdays Hillsborough stadium during an FA Cup semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest.

 

During Commons question time, Mr Twigg (Halton) told Mrs May: "You will be aware of the comments by the Culture Secretary this morning linking the Hillsborough disaster to football hooliganism - this is a disgrace.

 

"Ive just recently spoken to some of the families who lost loved ones at Hillsborough - theyre deeply distressed by this and angry about whats happened.

 

"How can they have trust in the Government that they will see through the proper release of the Hillsborough files given that thats the view held in high parts of the Government?"

 

He asked Mrs May to meet "urgently" Mr Hunt and the families of those killed to discuss the matter.

 

The Home Secretary pointed to Mr Hunts apology, adding: "The judicial inquiry was absolutely clear on this point - the Taylor Report cleared Liverpool supporters of any allegations they were to blame for the terrible events that took place at that time.

 

"The families of those who sadly lost their lives in the Hillsborough disaster have conducted a very dignified campaign over the years to try to ensure that the information is released and that they are able to see all the details of what happened at that time.

 

"I have already met the Bishop of Liverpool to discuss the work that his panel is doing in looking at these issues. I would indeed be happy to meet representatives of the Hillsborough families."

 

Lord Justice Taylors official inquiry into the disaster, which reported in 1990, criticised senior police officers on duty at the match for a "failure of control" and recommended the introduction of all-seater stadiums.

 

A group set up to study previously secret documents relating to the Hillsborough tragedy met for the first time in February.

 

The Hillsborough Independent Panel, led by the Bishop of Liverpool, the Right Rev James Jones, will oversee the public disclosure of archives held by the emergency services, the city council and other public bodies in Sheffield

 

 

 

Why?

 

Because being a victim makes your opinion more important than the rest of us's, if you're lucky enough to be related to a victim this is multiplied 100-fold.

[indi]

And of course it goes without saying that Hillsborough was in no way whatsoever anything at all to do with the hundreds of ticketless fans who forced their way in and proceeded to push themselves forward into an obviously overcrowded enclosure. They simply can't be blamed, as all they were doing was being cheeky and how can that be anything other than adorable!?!

[midds]

[1878]

And of course it goes without saying that Hillsborough was in no way whatsoever anything at all to do with the hundreds of ticketless fans who forced their way in and proceeded to push themselves forward into an obviously overcrowded enclosure. They simply can't be blamed, as all they were doing was being cheeky and how can that be anything other than adorable!?!

 

I'm glad you've cleared that up.

 

Why did they go to all the trouble of the Taylor Report when they could have just asked you?

[indi]

And of course it goes without saying that Hillsborough was in no way whatsoever anything at all to do with the hundreds of ticketless fans who forced their way in and proceeded to push themselves forward into an obviously overcrowded enclosure. They simply can't be blamed, as all they were doing was being cheeky and how can that be anything other than adorable!?!

 

I'm glad you've cleared that up.

 

Why did they go to all the trouble of the Taylor Report when they could have just asked you?

 

Why, indeed?

[indi]

To be serious about it for a second, it's the truth though, isn't it?

 

The simple fact is that if there weren't a load of people without tickets who forced their way in then no-one would have died, regardless of how badly the police dealt with the situation. I just can't take someone's opinion seriously if they can't accept that some fans - almost certainly not those who ended up dying - were at fault for what happened because to refuse to do so is to be out of touch with reality. The police made one almighty fuck up of the situation, but there's was a genuine mistake, it was hardly a mistake that people forced their way into a ground without tickets, was it? I hope those that did regret what they did, feel ashamed and are honest enough to accept responsibility for the consequences of their actions, but I suspect a large number of them don't and prefer to blame the police instead. Why has there been no campaign for those people to be brought to justice, how come they get a free ride? If I was a victim or their relative that's who I'd be after.

[Guest Geordiesned]

This might well have already been covered in another thread but I couldn't see it anywhere.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/8721942.stm

 

Roy Hodgson poised to become new Liverpool manager

 

Roy Hodgson is set to be appointed Liverpool's new manager by Thursday, BBC Sport understands.

 

The Reds were granted permission to speak to the 62-year-old two weeks ago by his current club Fulham.

 

Hodgson has also been linked with the England manager's job following the team's humiliating exit from the World Cup but Liverpool have acted quickly.

 

The Englishman will replace Rafael Benitez in the Anfield hot seat after the Spaniard left at the start of June.

 

"Hodgson has always been the number one target of the board at Anfield to replace Benitez," said Ian Dennis, BBC Radio 5 live's senior football reporter.

 

"After Fulham granted Liverpool permission to speak to Hodgson, it was just a matter of the clubs agreeing a compensation deal for him."

 

Hodgson has been in charge of Fulham since December 2007 and signed a new 12-month rolling contract in December 2009.

 

Although he suffered a difficult start to his tenure, winning only nine points from his first 13 league matches, he saved the club from relegation in 2007-2008, securing survival on the final day of the campaign.

 

The following season he steered the club to seventh place in the Premier League - their highest finish - and a place in the Europa League.

 

His achievement in guiding Fulham to the final of that competition, with wins over Juventus and Wolfsburg en route, resulted in him being named manager of the year by the League Managers Association in May.

 

Hodgson has also managed Italian giants Inter Milan, Blackburn and Switzerland, who he guided to the last 16 of the 1994 World Cup.

 

Aston Villa boss Martin O'Neill, former Real Madrid coach Manuel Pellegrini, ex-Chelsea boss Guus Hiddink, Croatia coach Slaven Bilic and former Manchester City manager Mark Hughes have all been linked with the Liverpool post.

 

Personally I would have loved to see him given a shot at the England job. He's got experience of handling big name players from his time at Inter and has tournament experience specifically in the World Cup.

[summerof69]

To be serious about it for a second, it's the truth though, isn't it?

 

The simple fact is that if there weren't a load of people without tickets who forced their way in then no-one would have died, regardless of how badly the police dealt with the situation. I just can't take someone's opinion seriously if they can't accept that some fans - almost certainly not those who ended up dying - were at fault for what happened because to refuse to do so is to be out of touch with reality. The police made one almighty f*** up of the situation, but there's was a genuine mistake, it was hardly a mistake that people forced their way into a ground without tickets, was it? I hope those that did regret what they did, feel ashamed and are honest enough to accept responsibility for the consequences of their actions, but I suspect a large number of them don't and prefer to blame the police instead. Why has there been no campaign for those people to be brought to justice, how come they get a free ride? If I was a victim or their relative that's who I'd be after.

 

 

 

I think it's because the police themselves tried to hide from any blame and put it all down to the fans of Liverpool, not to mention i imagine that behaviour like that was normal in those days for most clubs which meant that there should have been a Taylor report of some sort years before. I think if you are going to have a go at Liverpool fans for that then you should have a go at all football fans in general because i am sure that there would have been situations like thatat many other clubs including ours. I mean didn't our very own Alan Shearer admit to sneaking in to st james' park when he was younger?

[SEMTEX]

This might well have already been covered in another thread but I couldn't see it anywhere.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/8721942.stm

 

Roy Hodgson poised to become new Liverpool manager

 

Roy Hodgson is set to be appointed Liverpool's new manager by Thursday, BBC Sport understands.

 

The Reds were granted permission to speak to the 62-year-old two weeks ago by his current club Fulham.

 

Hodgson has also been linked with the England manager's job following the team's humiliating exit from the World Cup but Liverpool have acted quickly.

 

The Englishman will replace Rafael Benitez in the Anfield hot seat after the Spaniard left at the start of June.

 

"Hodgson has always been the number one target of the board at Anfield to replace Benitez," said Ian Dennis, BBC Radio 5 live's senior football reporter.

 

"After Fulham granted Liverpool permission to speak to Hodgson, it was just a matter of the clubs agreeing a compensation deal for him."

 

Hodgson has been in charge of Fulham since December 2007 and signed a new 12-month rolling contract in December 2009.

 

Although he suffered a difficult start to his tenure, winning only nine points from his first 13 league matches, he saved the club from relegation in 2007-2008, securing survival on the final day of the campaign.

 

The following season he steered the club to seventh place in the Premier League - their highest finish - and a place in the Europa League.

 

His achievement in guiding Fulham to the final of that competition, with wins over Juventus and Wolfsburg en route, resulted in him being named manager of the year by the League Managers Association in May.

 

Hodgson has also managed Italian giants Inter Milan, Blackburn and Switzerland, who he guided to the last 16 of the 1994 World Cup.

 

Aston Villa boss Martin O'Neill, former Real Madrid coach Manuel Pellegrini, ex-Chelsea boss Guus Hiddink, Croatia coach Slaven Bilic and former Manchester City manager Mark Hughes have all been linked with the Liverpool post.

 

Personally I would have loved to see him given a shot at the England job. He's got experience of handling big name players from his time at Inter and has tournament experience specifically in the World Cup.

 

Can you post off topic things somewhere else?

 

Talk about the 96 please.

[Guest Geordiesned]

I think the Scouse mourners talk about it enough for everyone tbh.

[Guest ObiChrisKenobi]

I wonder how long this will be remembered/dragged on/not allowed to rest (in peace) for? Wouldn't it be best for everyone to just move on - the most vital part of the mourning process.

[indi]

To be serious about it for a second, it's the truth though, isn't it?

 

The simple fact is that if there weren't a load of people without tickets who forced their way in then no-one would have died, regardless of how badly the police dealt with the situation. I just can't take someone's opinion seriously if they can't accept that some fans - almost certainly not those who ended up dying - were at fault for what happened because to refuse to do so is to be out of touch with reality. The police made one almighty f*** up of the situation, but there's was a genuine mistake, it was hardly a mistake that people forced their way into a ground without tickets, was it? I hope those that did regret what they did, feel ashamed and are honest enough to accept responsibility for the consequences of their actions, but I suspect a large number of them don't and prefer to blame the police instead. Why has there been no campaign for those people to be brought to justice, how come they get a free ride? If I was a victim or their relative that's who I'd be after.

 

 

 

I think it's because the police themselves tried to hide from any blame and put it all down to the fans of Liverpool, not to mention i imagine that behaviour like that was normal in those days for most clubs which meant that there should have been a Taylor report of some sort years before. I think if you are going to have a go at Liverpool fans for that then you should have a go at all football fans in general because i am sure that there would have been situations like thatat many other clubs including ours. I mean didn't our very own Alan Shearer admit to sneaking in to st james' park when he was younger?

 

I wasn't absolving the police of all blame and I agree that their attempt to cover it up was undeniably wrong, but isn't that the same as what a lot of Liverpool fans are still doing (ie not accepting that anyone other than the police were responsible)? Yeah, all clubs' fans did it and it still happens today, the reason Man Utd fans don't sit at away matches is apparently because if they did it would be obvious that there were more of them there than there should be. The reason I only mentioned the Liverpool fans is because that is the subject being discussed, but any fans who force their way into grounds without genuine tickets should be held responsible if things happen due to overcrowding and Hillsborough is an example of that.

[indi]

To be serious about it for a second, it's the truth though, isn't it?

 

The simple fact is that if there weren't a load of people without tickets who forced their way in then no-one would have died, regardless of how badly the police dealt with the situation. I just can't take someone's opinion seriously if they can't accept that some fans - almost certainly not those who ended up dying - were at fault for what happened because to refuse to do so is to be out of touch with reality. The police made one almighty fuck up of the situation, but there's was a genuine mistake, it was hardly a mistake that people forced their way into a ground without tickets, was it? I hope those that did regret what they did, feel ashamed and are honest enough to accept responsibility for the consequences of their actions, but I suspect a large number of them don't and prefer to blame the police instead. Why has there been no campaign for those people to be brought to justice, how come they get a free ride? If I was a victim or their relative that's who I'd be after.

 

Seriously? You can't accept that nobody deserved to die? (Not sure if you're talking about my opinion bud as it's after my post)

 

What you say about the cause is correct (IMO)...but it is completely pointless for any side to point the finger as it's insignificant to actual loss of life.

 

Eh? Where do I even imply that that's what I think? Obviously no-one deserved to die, that goes without saying. I'd definitely prefer it if people could spend more effort trying to learn from the mistakes that were made, rather than trying to blame people, but that's not the society we live in unfortunately. The reality is that as a country we seem much more bothered about who's to blame than what we're going to do to make sure that these kind of things never happen again. So given that context the least we can do is make sure that the blame is apportioned accurately and this is an example of a situation where each side wants to blame the other entirely. Such circumstances seriously hinder the chances of lessons being learned and therefore I think it's important that those of us who weren't involved look at it in a rational way and don't allow ourselves to be caught up in the emotion of either side's case. What this thing with the MP shows is that it's basically become a taboo to even vaguely imply that any of the Liverpool fans at Hillsborough that day might have been even slightly at fault for what happened and that's wrong in my view. It's not like he blamed the people who died or even the Liverpool fans who were actually partly to blame, he simply offered Hillsborough up as an example of the bad-old-days of English football and it clearly is one. What he said is simply not a big deal to anyone prepared to look at it objectively, yet it's been blown up all out of proportion by the media and various other parties.

[Guest BooBoo]

Marching and protesting yet again today. 

 

"Built by Shanks, Destroyed by Yanks".  :facepalm:

[NJS]

To be serious about it for a second, it's the truth though, isn't it?

 

The simple fact is that if there weren't a load of people without tickets who forced their way in then no-one would have died

 

People were dying before the gates were opened.

 

 

[Guest toonlass]

To be serious about it for a second, it's the truth though, isn't it?

 

The simple fact is that if there weren't a load of people without tickets who forced their way in then no-one would have died

 

People were dying before the gates were opened.

 

 

 

sssssh man! Your supposed to ignore the actual evidence and just make accusations that blame the fans.

[midds]

Genuine questions:

 

Did the families of the 39 murdered Juventus fans of Heysel in '85 ever get an apology from Liverpool FC?

Did any of the Liverpool fans ever face criminal charges for causing the deaths of the Juventus fans?

 

Just wondering like.

[jdckelly]

not sure but a quick google search tells me there was some apologetic gesture made before they played each other in 2005 which was rejected by the travelling juve fans as they turned their backs

[midds]

not sure but a quick google search tells me there was some apologetic gesture made before they played each other in 2005 which was rejected by the travelling juve fans as they turned their backs

 

Vaguely remember that. So no official apology from LFC then?

 

 

[jdckelly]

looked at the wiki article on the disaster, there were criminal charges over it

 

There were 27 arrests on suspicion of manslaughter – the only extraditable offence applicable to events at Heysel. Sixty percent of these people were from Merseyside. Some of these people had previous convictions for football-related violence. In 1989, after a 5-month trial in Belgium, fourteen English fans were given 3-year sentences for involuntary manslaughter.[18] Half the terms were suspended[19] and it is unclear how many served their sentences.

 

theres also apparently some plaque at Anfield to honour the dead too

[midds]

 

Fucking hell.

[Segun Oluwaniyi]

It is just a random thought, but it has always been difficult for me to imagine that these events (Hills, Heysel, Bradford) all happened within five years of my birth. I suppose my first memories of football are from 1995-1996 and the idea of people being seriously injured and dying at football matches in industrialised Western Europe is just completely foreign. It is stunning how much the world of football has been altered.

 

Fwiw, it will have been nearly to prosecute any single supporter. Did LUFC pay damages to the familes.